Blow Off Valve For Mr-2

i know that mr-2 dont have blow off valves, what are they called waste gates or something thanks

bypass valves. they do almost the same thing as a blow off valve, but they also allow air to bypass the compressor in low load situations.

wastegate is what allows exhaust gas to bypass the turbine to limit the amount of boost the turbo makes.

But the ricers go for BOVs because they go pssshht. Like in the Fast and the Furious.

but when it goes pshhhhh it means i'm double clutching like i'm supposed to, not granny shifting.

But the ricers go for BOVs because they go pssshht. Like in the Fast and the Furious.

I resent that comment. I have a BOV, and yes i have it for the sound. But it doesnt mean that people who have a BOV is a ricer. Its something to do with presenting a car. you wanna make your car look nice right? so its only fair to make the car sound nice too. A true ricer is something like buying a nitrous tank only to "purge" and not even hooking the damn thing up. I love BOV's even if it does sacrifice performance. BLEH

I love BOV's even if it does sacrifice performance.

:disappoin that makes you a ricer. Sorry man. It comes to the same thing as not hooking up your NAAAWWWWSSS. Or an airplane wing. Sacrificing performance for a little wooshing sound... just buy a turbo whistle on ebay why don't you. :grinno:

blow off valves go wooooo woooooooooo

why dont u just let the people with blow off valves have them instead of talking shit about the sound everybody has the own taste

Well if you buy a BOV for the sound thats pretty sad IMO. You buy a better BOV to get some performance out of it, why do you think people change them. Most higher end BOV do not make alot of noise

:disappoin: that makes you a ricer. Sorry man. It comes to the same thing as not hooking up your NAAAWWWWSSS. Or an airplane wing. Sacrificing performance for a little wooshing sound... just buy a turbo whistle on ebay why don't you. :grinno:

well, the definition that most of the people i've met use to define "ricer" is someone who thinks their weak mods give them more performance than they do. example: 15HP from a cold air intake. hondachili isn't saying that his bov is gaining him any performance. in fact, he conceded that it very well could be costing him performance, he just likes the noise. that does not make him a ricer, it makes him an enthusiast. he is tuning the car to be more enjoyable for him to drive. you have no right to call him names for pursuing that which makes him happy.

in fact, the people who more accurately exhibit the "ricer" mentality are the ones who think their factory BPV is making them faster. does the OEM valve perform better than aftermarket valves? yes. is it a significant gain in performance? that's debatable. i'd like to see some lap times to back up the claims that these other valves are so far inferior to the OEM that they would cost you time on a track. but forget the actual imperical data, bench racing is just fine when you're demeaning someone over the internet for reasons you can't back up yourself.

So no one is allowed to have an opinion anymore. There's always someone who will get offended. I digress, my original statement was a generalization.
Hondachili decided to take it personally, that's his call. There is no set definition for the word "ricer" or what is and is not "rice". If you think that it means that people who think that they get 30hp (AT THE WHEELS) from an CAI, or 45hp (AT THE WHEELS) from an exhaust, then fine. That can be your definition. Mine, on the other hand, involves pointless, overdone modifications made to the engine and/or body of the car. I just don't understand why you would sacrifice the performance of your car for a sound. Everyone joked about the "turbo whistle" or the other muffler attachment that Bubb Rubb was peddling. This falls into the same category.
Hondachili himself said that a real ricer buys a nitrous kit without even hooking up the bottle. So in my head, it comes out to the same bloody thing.

but i like the bov sound lol not that i have one :icon16:

ok mr2 chick, although BOV does sacifice performance, it doesnt do it where the car falls behind drastically. If we are talking about giving your car parts where performance would only matter, then well everyone would be driving around in 13 in rims. why do people get 17 or 18 in when clearly the 13's give you more speed. On top of that if everyone were to go out and buy the things that will only gain them performance, then you'll have a crap load of the same cars with the same mods, now where is the fun in that? An enthusiast differentiates their cars from others. An import show would be pointless to have if it were under your ideals, no? But just to clear up what you said before, i am not taking this personal, i agree that everyone has the right to their own opinions, but when you go on an car forum and start calling people ricers, that is pretty childish in my "OPINION." Note the fact that not in a one sentence of my previous post have i offended you in anyway, and it was you who came out with the names. But whatever, it doesnt matter to me, on this subject no one is wrong. Just asking for a lil courtesy thats all.
oh yea, thanx for the backup crow.

Well if you buy a BOV for the sound thats pretty sad IMO. You buy a better BOV to get some performance out of it, why do you think people change them. Most higher end BOV do not make alot of noise

Whats so sad about buying a BOV? i'd like to see you take that comment on any turbo car forum and i guarantee that there will be negative feedbacks. Once again it is up to the owner of the car to do whatever he/ she likes. I'd really like to see a list of the mods on your car, including some pictures to back it up.

good sh*t chili, haha show them what's up. :werd: i think BOV's are pretty ill. sounds so intimadating. anyways everyone is entitled to their own opinion but it is kind of childish to go around calling other people names lol. btw i'm still waitin on that race chili lol

vtec power !! =DDD btw jekyl got a sick car haha check you mr2 owners out lata, PeAce~

To each, their own.

I'll never understand why people are sooo worried about other people.
Frankly, I do not care what other people do to there cars (or WHY they do it!), unless I can learn something from them.

As for people who do things that I do not like ... so be it. In my opinion, they just make me look better. I would hate it everyone had the exact same taste.

That being said, I was just as guilty as anyone for buying BOVs because they were "cool" and I bought into that they increased performance, etc ... but the bottom line is, I am interested in performance. PERIOD.

That being said I would like to clarify a few things:

does the OEM valve perform better than aftermarket valves? yes. is it a significant gain in performance? that's debatable.
The OEM valve does not give you a gain inperformance since you already OWN it. Paying $250+ for an aftermarket valve will cost you performance.

Real racers are interested in squeezing every possible ounce of performance out of their cars. I am lightening Hyde over the winter and one of the pieces I took out weighed less than 3 lbs. Is that going to give me drastic improvements? Hell no. But when you figure I have takev out of 10 pieces that weigh less than 3lbs, you are talking about close to 30 lbs ... added to other items that I have changed, modified or removed and I am looking at close to 150 lb weight loss. I should be over 200 lbs by my first race day.

So at what point are you "ok" with paying money for parts that you know are inferior? If it cost your 1 HP? .... 3 HP? ...10 HP?

but forget the actual imperical data, bench racing is just fine when you're demeaning someone over the internet for reasons you can't back up yourself.
I am speaking from 10 years of expereince of owning/modifying/racing turbocharged MR2s thank you. I have tried several BOVS and have all kinds of wonderful problems (screwed up idle, valves getting stuck open and let me sit on the side of the road, power on shifts not being as smooth, running rich, etc). I paid a good $$$ to have my car dyno tuned ... I am not about to throw that out of whack for a cool noise.

To each their own.

ok mr2 chick, although BOV does sacifice performance, it doesnt do it where the car falls behind drastically.
Again, how performance are you willing to sacrifice? 1 HP .... 3 HP ...5 HP .... 25 HP ....?
You mentioned buying it because you like the sound and you like the overall presentation of it and that is fine. I have done the same thing in the past. I agree the noise is cool ... the irony is that at the moment people hear your cool, they look at your car and see the overly rich black exhaust puffing out. So you basically draw attention to your ride at the precise moment that performance is less than optimal.

If we are talking about giving your car parts where performance would only matter, then well everyone would be driving around in 13 in rims. why do people get 17 or 18 in when clearly the 13's give you more speed.
That is not an accurate statement. Rim size only affects "speed" by their weight. As long as the overall diameter of rim + tire stays the same, there is no affect on speed unless the rims weigh a different amount. That being said, you can buy lightweight 17" rims.

Now, if your overall diameter of rim + tire is SMALLER than spec, you will LOSE speed, GAIN acceleration and LOSE gearing which is not good for drag racing. It happens to be great for autocrossing, which is why you see autocrossers with 13" rims and low profile tires. It allows them to use an extra gear on tight courses.

Now if your overall diamter of rim + tire is LARGER than spec, you will GAIN speed, LOSE acceleration and GAIN gearing. OEM rear tires on an MR2 is about 24" tall, when I installed my drag radials (almost 26.5" tall) I gained over 2-3 mph in SPEED on the drag strip. The gearing affect (torque) helps with the launch and giving me time to comprehend 1st gear.

The logical reason people go to taller rims (like 17"s) is to improve handling performance, not straightline speed. Assuming you keep the over all diameter of rim+tire the same, a taller rim will give you less side wall (lower profile tire) which will give you less flexing under load (cornering) and increase your handling. This is true for the average street tire. For the MR2, 15" rims with RACE TIRES are probably the best bet for handling, bit not realistic on the street.

All that being said HondaChili, if done right, a larger rim will increase performance.

On top of that if everyone were to go out and buy the things that will only gain them performance, then you'll have a crap load of the same cars with the same mods, now where is the fun in that?
100% agreed. To each, their own.

An import show would be pointless to have if it were under your ideals, no? Agreed again, but not everyone is into showing. You know there are people out there that are fanatical about having 100% stock cars? .... 50 years from now, their cars will be worth more than any of ours. Again, to each, their own.

[QUOTE=HondaChili]Just asking for a lil courtesy thats all.QUOTE]
Amen.

btw jekyl got a sick car haha
;) thanks man.

So no one is allowed to have an opinion anymore. There's always someone who will get offended. I digress, my original statement was a generalization.
Hondachili decided to take it personally, that's his call. There is no set definition for the word "ricer" or what is and is not "rice". If you think that it means that people who think that they get 30hp (AT THE WHEELS) from an CAI, or 45hp (AT THE WHEELS) from an exhaust, then fine. That can be your definition. Mine, on the other hand, involves pointless, overdone modifications made to the engine and/or body of the car. I just don't understand why you would sacrifice the performance of your car for a sound. Everyone joked about the "turbo whistle" or the other muffler attachment that Bubb Rubb was peddling. This falls into the same category.
Hondachili himself said that a real ricer buys a nitrous kit without even hooking up the bottle. So in my head, it comes out to the same bloody thing.

where did i say no one was allowed to have an opinion? could you please point that out for me? my point is that you are making fun of him because of his opinion. why shouldn't he take it personally?
the problem, in my experience, isn't the ricers. it's the performance nazis who think everyone should conform to their vision of what makes a cool car, and whoever doesn't is automatically stupid and/or a ricer. THEY'RE the ones talking the shit, not the ricers. trouble is, they're also the ones who get overly defensive when someone calls them out. if you're going to belittle people on message boards, you better be able to take it as well as dish it out.


I am speaking from 10 years of expereince of owning/modifying/racing turbocharged MR2s thank you. I have tried several BOVS and have all kinds of wonderful problems (screwed up idle, valves getting stuck open and let me sit on the side of the road, power on shifts not being as smooth, running rich, etc). I paid a good $$$ to have my car dyno tuned ... I am not about to throw that out of whack for a cool noise.

fair enough. problem is, my car didn't come with an OEM valve. it came with an assortment of aftermarket valves. i simply worked around that. i've driven several MR2's with and without the OEM valve, and while the performance of the OE valve is better, the performance of the car is not necessarily better because of it. i've got a greddy type-S on mine. when i bought the car, it was plumbed back into the intake. it drove just like any of the MR2's i drove with the OE valve, being that it is of the exact same design.

so i worked out a little system and vented it to atmosphere, just as an experiment. now it drives better. not just a little better, it's a night and day difference. to me, driveability is a major component of any performance car. the difference was WELL worth it. there is no black smoke when i shift, nor does the engine stumble or stall when i shift (i've done the "push the clutch and let it stall" test and it passes with flying colors. the rpm never drops below idle). as a fringe benefit, i get a pretty cool noise.

it's really sad that some people aren't ok with that- especially when it's not their car.

Did you just say it drives "better?" You must have an incredibly imaginative butt dyno...

since when do you need anything more accurate than a butt dyno (even an imaginative one) to tell the difference between the way it was and "HOLY FUCKING SHIT IS THIS EVEN THE SAME CAR!!??"

if i were claiming a slight change, i could understand your point, but i'm not. it's a fundamental difference in the way the car drives- especially before the engine is up to temp.

i've got a greddy type-S .... with the OE valve, being that it is of the exact same design.
They are not even remotely close in design.
The GReddy works on a Spring (which is the one major flaws of aftermarket valves). The OEM works on Air. Push enoguh pressure throuh that greddy and it will open under boost. The more air you push into the OEM the harder it stays shut.

One of the HKS units copied the OEM design for using air pressure to keepthe valve closed, but it still does not have the by-pass feature of the OEM valve. No aftermarket valve does.

so i worked out a little system and vented it to atmosphere, just as an experiment. now it drives better. not just a little better, it's a night and day difference.
You are kidding yourself or you are kidding us or your OEM valve was broken.

if i were claiming a slight change, i could understand your point, but i'm not.
Ironic. A few posts ago, you agreed the OEM valve was better but not enough to be noticeable or worth while. Now you are claiming that a valve (you admit is inferior) suddenly has a significant night & day difference better than the OEM valve?! Your arguments do not add up.

it's a fundamental difference in the way the car drives- especially before the engine is up to temp.
The BOV/BPVs affect operation under boosted conditions.
If you are boosting before the engine is up to temp you are asking for major trouble. Boosting on a cold engine is unwise.

IF YOU TRULY BELIEVE THIS:
where did i say no one was allowed to have an opinion? could you please point that out for me? my point is that you are making fun of him because of his opinion. why shouldn't he take it personally?
WHY DID YOU POST THIS:
since when do you need anything more accurate than a butt dyno (even an imaginative one) to tell the difference between the way it was and "HOLY FUCKING SHIT IS THIS EVEN THE SAME CAR!!??"

scarecrowX,
When you disagree with the argument, you demand real emperical data, but when you offer a point for argument, your but dyno is enough?!

Look at your posts:

On page 1 of this thread you say:

in fact, the people who more accurately exhibit the "ricer" mentality are the ones who think their factory BPV is making them faster. does the OEM valve perform better than aftermarket valves? yes. is it a significant gain in performance? that's debatable. i'd like to see some lap times to back up the claims that these other valves are so far inferior to the OEM that they would cost you time on a track. but forget the actual imperical data, bench racing is just fine when you're demeaning someone over the internet for reasons you can't back up yourself.

PAGE2 YOU SAY THIS:

since when do you need anything more accurate than a butt dyno

Is this the same person talking?!?!

wow.

okay, let's begin.

They are not even remotely close in design.
The GReddy works on a Spring (which is the one major flaws of aftermarket valves). The OEM works on Air. Push enoguh pressure throuh that greddy and it will open under boost. The more air you push into the OEM the harder it stays shut.

One of the HKS units copied the OEM design for using air pressure to keepthe valve closed, but it still does not have the by-pass feature of the OEM valve. No aftermarket valve does.

i stand corrected. mine does have a spring. it also has boost/vac ports on both sides of the diaphragm. it's not the exact same, but it's similar enough. my apologies. if set up with a one way restrictor like the OE valve, however, it will operate in by-pass mode as boost pressure remains in the lower port with vacuum in the upper port. they are not as dissimilar as you make them out to be.

You are kidding yourself or you are kidding us or your OEM valve was broken

no, i just know a few things about my car that you don't. your assumption is understandable though. the argument is unimportant either way..

Ironic. A few posts ago, you agreed the OEM valve was better but not enough to be noticeable or worth while. Now you are claiming that a valve (you admit is inferior) suddenly has a significant night & day difference better than the OEM valve?! Your arguments do not add up.

sure they do. why is there a difference? because there is a fundamental difference in the way i have mine set up when compared to the OE valve. you're also forgetting something- at no point did i say that the valve i have works better than an OE valve under equal circumstances, nor did i say that the car performed better because of it. more on that in a bit..

we are talking about two different things here. you are talking about parts. i am talking about how those parts are set up. THAT is where the difference lies. if you read that post more carefully, you'll see that i'm being consistent in what i'm saying. perhaps the OE valve set up the same way would work even better. you've assumed that i ruled that out when i did no such thing.

The BOV/BPVs affect operation under boosted conditions.
If you are boosting before the engine is up to temp you are asking for major trouble. Boosting on a cold engine is unwise.

BOV/BPV's most certainly open and close under vacuum conditions. you said so yourself earlier in your post. the remainder of your statement is irrelevant as i never said anything about boosting on a cold engine. i am sorry though, i should have made that more clear.

as for the IF YOU BELIEVE... THEN WHY DID YOU POST...?, i really don't see any relevance there whatsoever. i'm not making fun of anyone by saying what you quoted (which is the point of the first post you quoted me on). honestly. they are totally unrelated. could you elaborate on your point further? i do not see how those two posts are even remotely related. maybe you interpreted it differently than i had intended. either way, i cannot address a point that i cannot see. if you're referring to my language in the second quote, it was not in any way meant to be derrogatory to lachean, only to illustrate my surprise at how differently the car drove. again, misinterpretation is understandable. lachean, i hope i didn't offend you, that was never my intention.

scarecrowX,
When you disagree with the argument, you demand real emperical data, but when you offer a point for argument, your but dyno is enough?! ...Is this the same person talking?!?!

of course it's the same person.
i think we're just differing on the part of the discussion we each choose to emphasize.
you are asking for imperical data pertaining to the driveability of the car. i am asking, in my post, for imperical data pertaining to performance of the car, valve vs. valve. one is tangible; measureable, one is abstract.
driveability is a component of performance, not performance itself. unfortunately, there is no real means of measuring driveability other than the good ol' butt dyno. why not? because there is one differing factor between every single car that driveability affects: the driver. in my case, ~i~ am the driver. my preferences regarding driveability will likely differ from yours, and everyone else's. therefore, my butt dyno is the ONLY instrument (haha i just called my ass an instrument :D) on the face of the earth calibrated correctly to assess my car for me. i, at no time in any of my posts, claimed that my car performed better because of my setup (it's true, go back and read them), only that it drove better. there is a crowbar seperation between those terms, but apparently it's a distinction that few people can make.
as you can see, i'm still consistent in what i've said. i hope i've cleared a few things up. i am, however, having difficulty understanding why you're going to the trouble when you never understand why people are sooo worried about other people... and do not care what other people do to there cars (or WHY they do it!)

Hmm seems like this conversation has turned into a heated argument with quotes thrown left and right. Guys, lets keep it cool. Both sides have pretty good reasons for things said, lets not start an internal conflict. Save that for the ones who actually dont know squat and come here to talk shit. In anycase, I have a Turbo XS RFL BOV, i did not actually go out and buy the thing but it came with the car when i bought it and ive grown to love it. It does have some minor kinks over the past year.
1. The valve gets stuck. The simple problem was an easy fix by aiming the horn in a downard angle.
2. It idling problems. Not as much, maybe once in a while.

SInce i have not tried any other types of BOV's im not in a place to say which gives performance or which does not. Only in my case, i KNOW im losing performance. However, Im sure that not one car (even from factory) is exactly the same. Each car can react differently to different parts. Yes, in the general sense, BOV's will take away performance. But there can also be a car out there that takes it well? maybe? I mean factory "freaks" exist, dont they?
As for the 13 in rim statement i made earlier, yes it was a general comment. I stated it to prove another point without ragarding the statement with care.
Once again, lemme remind everyone this thread was just a simple question on BOV's, so lets just answer that question and let it be.

Dave ill drag you when it gets warmer... shesh , and btw i didn tknow you were on this forum.

i am everywhere lol :smokin:

scarecrowX, I will clarify your last question first:

I truly do not care what other people do to there cars (or WHY they do it!) in the sense that I am not concerned with people who knowingly make the choices they do.

Hondachili asks about BOVs.
He is told aftermarket ones rob performance.
He says, "OK, but I like the noise.
That bit of performance is not important to me."
I say fine. I do not judge him.
It is his educated choice to play with his car as he likes.

That being said, I am not debating your car for your sake.
I am debating your car for the masses who may be reading this thread to learn and gain information.
I am interested in education and helping.
That is my motive.

That being said, your information is still not accurate:

if set up with a one way restrictor like the OE valve, however, it will operate in by-pass mode as boost pressure remains in the lower port with vacuum in the upper port. they are not as dissimilar as you make them out to be.
The by-pass feature does not come into play when "boost" is in any port. The by-pass feature comes into play when there is no boost.
I really do not think you are understanding the by-pass feature of the OEM valve.
There is a section on it here:
http://jekylandhyde.madpowaz.com/bov.htm
No aftermarket valve has that feature.

And again, a spring design valve will never be as efficient as the one based on air. It can not respond as fast. It can not respond as sensitive (that is why the OEM valve farts - it can "partially" respond).

Under enough pressure the spring design will not hold.
Comparitively, the OEM holds stronger the more pressure you add.

why is there a difference? because there is a fundamental difference in the way i have mine set up when compared to the OE valve.
Of course! They are entirely different valve designs!

BOV/BPV's most certainly open and close under vacuum conditions.
No.
Valves are designed to open when the throttle plate closes and there is boost pressure in the intake system.
That is not a vacuum.

The OEM BPV will open under normal driving vaccum (unboosted driving) to let air go the opposite way through the valve (compared to when venting boost) toward the intercooler.
That is the by-pass function.
The air is allowed to "by-pass" the turbocharger.

So, NO, BOVs do not open under vacuum unless the spring tension is not adjusted properly.
They open from boost pressure when the throttle plate closes.

the remainder of your statement is irrelevant as i never said anything about boosting on a cold engine.
You clearly discussed the improvement your valve made on a cold engine.
If you are discussing your GReddy valve's performance, you most certainly are implying that you were boosting.
The GReddy valve does not open (or do anything else) except when venting boost.
Boosting on a cold engine is bad.

the problem, in my experience, isn't the ricers. it's the performance nazis who think everyone should conform to their vision of what makes a cool car, and whoever doesn't is automatically stupid and/or a ricer. THEY'RE the ones talking the shit, not the ricers. trouble is, they're also the ones who get overly defensive when someone calls them out. if you're going to belittle people on message boards, you better be able to take it as well as dish it out.

So what now, I should get offended that you've called me a performance nazi and blast you for that? I really don't care if Hondachili has a BOV. I wouldn't put one on mine, because I don't understand modifications that will cost you $$$ and performance.
Getting overly defensive? not really... I just think that perhaps I should clear things up when I am interpreted wrong. You can call me a performance nazi until the cows come home, pigs fly and hell freezes over. My original comment's sole purpose was to be funny, not get you guys riled up about "rice". Touchy touchy.
Why would any of you care that I (and a girl to boot :eek7:) think that I think that aftermarket BOVs in this case are dumb and ricey.

Anyway, I'm sorry, perhaps I should keep my comments to myself, but it makes the forum more interesting. - oh and GET A SENSE OF HUMOR BOYS.
-Jess

Why would any of you care that I (and a girl to boot :eek7:)
There is no reason to discredit your contribution because you are female.
Chicks are great ... and can add a whole new perspective to lots of things automotive.

Anyway, I'm sorry, perhaps I should keep my comments to myself.
Please don't.
but it makes the forum more interesting.
Yes.

No.
Valves are designed to open when the throttle plate closes and there is boost pressure in the intake system.
That is not a vacuum.

The OEM BPV will open under normal driving vaccum (unboosted driving) to let air go the opposite way through the valve (compared to when venting boost) toward the intercooler.
That is the by-pass function.
The air is allowed to "by-pass" the turbocharger.

So, NO, BOVs do not open under vacuum unless the spring tension is not adjusted properly.
They open from boost pressure when the throttle plate closes.

find yourself a dsm. let it idle. pop the recirculating pipe off and watch the engine die. why? because the valve is open at that point. why? because vacuum on the diaphragm is overcoming the spring pressure. this allows it to work in bypass mode. the aftermarket twin chamber valves, if set up with the same one way restrictor in the lower boost port, will work as a bypass. the pressure differential allows engine vacuum to overcome the spring and open the valve. i've done it. i've actually placed my finger inside the valve housing and blipped the throttle with the vac lines set up like this and felt the valve opening and closing. if you do not believe me, try it yourself. you will see that i am neither lying nor mistaken.

You clearly discussed the improvement your valve made on a cold engine.
If you are discussing your GReddy valve's performance, you most certainly are implying that you were boosting.
The GReddy valve does not open (or do anything else) except when venting boost.
Boosting on a cold engine is bad.

i said nothing about the way the valve itself affected the car's driveability. i spoke of HOW the valve was incorporated affecting the driveability. it clearly made an improvent in off-boost driveability- especially when the engine is cold. instead of asking why, you insist that i am wrong. again, you are drawing conclusions based upon information you do not have, nor made any effort to acquire. that said, let's talk about your "motives..."

as far as what you said about education, i am not trying to teach anything, i'm simply offering my experiences and observations. someone who's truly interested in the education of others would, instead of insisting that i am wrong and don't know what i'm talking about, look into WHY my car works better when others do not. they would try to ascertain what is different about my car that makes it respond differently. they would try to learn something. you chose to try to make me look like an idiot. you can spout off about education and helping until you are blue in the face, but your actions speak louder than your words. you are truly interested in belittling those you do not agree with or this entire argument would never have happened in the first place..


So what now, I should get offended that you've called me a performance nazi and blast you for that?

please re-read what you quoted and tell me where i called you a performance nazi.

I really don't care if Hondachili has a BOV. I wouldn't put one on mine, because I don't understand modifications that will cost you $$$ and performance.

fair enough. but if you do not understand it, who are you to criticize it? i don't think i'm being unfair in asking that, nor am i intending to put you down in any way. i'm just trying to comprehend why you feel the need to criticize someone on a matter you just admitted you do not understand- especially without making an effort to understand it.

Getting overly defensive? not really... I just think that perhaps I should clear things up when I am interpreted wrong. You can call me a performance nazi until the cows come home, pigs fly and hell freezes over.

again, did i say you were getting overly defensive? i was comparing ricers with performance nazis. any identification you've made with either group is your own doing and was not my intention.
i'm glad you feel the need to clear things up when you are misinterpreted. i hope you can see that i am trying to do the same.

My original comment's sole purpose was to be funny, not get you guys riled up about "rice". Touchy touchy.

your original comment isn't what started this, calling hondachili names was. and quite frankly it's not that big a deal either way, i just don't like to see people get attacked for liking something others don't. maybe i am a little touchy. i apologize.

Why would any of you care that I (and a girl to boot ) think that I think that aftermarket BOVs in this case are dumb and ricey.

fair enough. that's a perfectly valid opinion. all i'm trying to point out is that there is a distinction between having an opinion ("blow off valves are dumb and ricey") and demeaning someone for having an opinion ("people who use blow off valves are dumb and ricey"). your second post was of the latter persuasion. i was simply pointing out that that's not very nice.

i like intelligent discussions though. this has been fun.

because vacuum on the diaphragm is overcoming the spring pressure. I would enjoy seeing your engines vacuum be able to over come the spring pressure.
Let's assume it does. What is the point?
The whole point of the by-pass feature is so the engine does not have to "work" to pull air over the turbocharger. So you have set your ups to make it "work" to pull the spring open ... what's the point? Again, you are spending time and money engineering something that works flawlessly.

It clearly made an improvent in off-boost driveability- especially when the engine is cold. instead of asking why, you insist that i am wrong. again, you are drawing conclusions
You are correct. I did draw a conclusion without all of the information.
I would never have guessed that you would go through so much trouble to make your GReddy BOV work as a by-pass valve while simultaneously defeating the purpose of having the by-pass feature in the first place.

as far as what you said about education, i am not trying to teach anything, i'm simply offering my experiences and observations.
And I am correcting the errors as I see them.
There are many holes in your logic. I am merely pointing them out.
If you take my words as belittling, that is your issue, not mine.

I can not even begin to share how MR2 owners I have seen with problems of daily running conditions with the use of aftermarket BOVs.

My motive here is to prevent people from wasting $250+ on a part that will hurt performance. If they choose to still buy it, that is there option.
I would hate for them to think there is a magical recipe to make a spring-designed BOV work as well as the OEM unit.

The only justification for an aftermarket valve is because you want the noise ... and I would be the last to criticise that. To each their own.

instead of insisting that i am wrong and don't know what i'm talking about, look into WHY my car works better when others do not.
Whoever said your car works better?
Show me your car works better.

Getting overly defensive? not really... I just think that perhaps I should clear things up when I am interpreted wrong. You can call me a performance nazi until the cows come home, pigs fly and hell freezes over. My original comment's sole purpose was to be funny, not get you guys riled up about "rice". Touchy touchy.
Why would any of you care that I (and a girl to boot :eek7:) think that I think that aftermarket BOVs in this case are dumb and ricey.

Anyway, I'm sorry, perhaps I should keep my comments to myself, but it makes the forum more interesting. - oh and GET A SENSE OF HUMOR BOYS.
-Jess

Hmmm i woiuld understand that your first comment was a joke and maybe i shouldnt have replied the way i did. But your second statement couldve been a little more clear on the joke part. Its kinda hard to understand your expression on a forum y'know. Maybe next time add a lil "j/k's, or comments that are clearly in humor" then things wouldnt have come to this. However, i did not get offended, hey its not like i've never called anyone a ricer. :iceslolan in anycase mainpoint is some like the BOV's for sound some dont, just the way it is. Now can we please shut this thread and move on. I think the past three pages have answered the original question with crystal clearness...But hey mr2 chick just to be fair, ill argue with you on a different thread next time. :naughty:

I would enjoy seeing your engines vacuum be able to over come the spring pressure.
Let's assume it does. What is the point?
The whole point of the by-pass feature is so the engine does not have to "work" to pull air over the turbocharger. So you have set your ups to make it "work" to pull the spring open ... what's the point? Again, you are spending time and money engineering something that works flawlessly.

see, the funny thing is i spent minimal time and a grand total of $0 making it do what it's doing. i'm making due with the parts i have available to me, i'm just being creative about it.
what's the point of being able to open the valve? you answered your own question. i shouldn't have to spell that out.

the point is pretty obvious, had you read my previous posts. if you honestly need me to point it out, just say so and i will, but i'm hoping i won't have to.

You are correct. I did draw a conclusion without all of the information.
I would never have guessed that you would go through so much trouble to make your GReddy BOV work as a by-pass valve while simultaneously defeating the purpose of having the by-pass feature in the first place.

again, you are operating under the assumption that that is what i've done to it. in saying so, i was merely pointing out that the greddy valve can, in fact, be set up to operate that way. in fact, it was designed to. at no point, however, did i say that that is how it's installed on my car.

And I am correcting the errors as I see them.
There are many holes in your logic. I am merely pointing them out.
If you take my words as belittling, that is your issue, not mine.

you've corrected the error i made in saying the two valves are identical. everything else thus for, you've made up by drawing conclusions while not having enough info to do so. based on that, whose logic is erroneous? as for these holes in my logic, you've yet to actually point any out. with the exception of the mistake that i readily admitted to, everything else has been mere misunderstanding which i have been more than happy to clear up, and will continue to do so as you continue to misconstrue the things i say. i have neither backpeddled nor changed my stance on anything i have said thus far.

My motive here is to prevent people from wasting $250+ on a part that will hurt performance. If they choose to still buy it, that is there option.
I would hate for them to think there is a magical recipe to make a spring-designed BOV work as well as the OEM unit.

my reasoning for offering what i have is for those who bought their cars equipped with aftermarket valves, as i did, to get the best performance possible out of them. as i said, i'm making due with what i have, and the net result thus far is that i've found my car drives better out of boost than any other MR2 i've driven- including those i've driven that were equipped with OEM valves. in boost, i can find no discernable difference. i never stated i could in any of my posts, though i can see where you jumped to the conclusion that i did.

i'm just repeating myself though. the answers to everything you're questioning are in my previous posts- if you would just read them carefully enough and not jump to conclusions.

Whoever said your car works better?
Show me your car works better.

*sigh* i've addressed this point already. i said it. re-read my posts and you will fully understand why i've said it and why i am qualified to say it.

again, your questioning of me is based on you misinterpreting what you quoted me as saying. let me reiterate:

scarecrowX
instead of insisting that i am wrong and don't know what i'm talking about, look into WHY my car works better when others do not.

again, if education/helping mattered in the least to you, you would question why my car responds to this situation better (or even, for that matter, differently) than all the others that you have seen problems with. you would be interested in what is different about my car/setup that makes it drive better with an aftermarket valve when other cars drive worse with aftermarket valves? you have not done this. therefore, i stand by my conclusion about your motives stated in my previous post, and with valid and sound logical reasoning to back it up. you leave little room to question the consistency of what i say when you do not do so yourself.

see, the funny thing is i spent minimal time and a grand total of $0 making it do what it's doing.
I spent 0$ and zero time.


what's the point of being able to open the valve? you answered your own question. i shouldn't have to spell that out.

You are correct. I did answer the question as to what is the point.
Let me go over it again:

The whole point of the by-pass feature is so the engine does not have to "work" to pull air over the turbocharger. So you claim "the greddy" can be set up to make it "work" to pull the spring open.

The point of the by-pass feature is to reduce the "work" the engine has to do.
Your example with the GReddy, increases the amount of work the engine has to do.
So the logic of even bothering to do this (free or not) is flawed.
Whether this is how it is installed on your car or not, does not change the physics. So who cares if it is actually on your car. That has zero bearing on the debate.

If this is not what you have done to your car, why even bother bringing it up as an example?


again, you are operating under the assumption that that is what i've done to it. in saying so, i was merely pointing out that the greddy valve can, in fact, be set up to operate that way. in fact, it was designed to. at no point, however, did i say that that is how it's installed on my car.
See above. For the purposes of debating the engineering involved it makes no difference if you have it installed on your car. It would be pointless to make the engine work to pull on a spring so bother bringing up such a poor point?

you've corrected the error i made in saying the two valves are identical. everything else thus for, you've made up by drawing conclusions while not having enough info to do so. based on that, whose logic is erroneous?
The only "conclusion" I drew was assuming the valve in your example was on your car.
Again, who cares if it on your car?!
It makes no difference in the debate.

i have neither backpeddled nor changed my stance on anything i have said thus far.
That doesn't make you are correct.


my reasoning for offering what i have is for those who bought their cars equipped with aftermarket valves, as i did, to get the best performance possible out of them.
And that would be done by installing the OEM valve.

as i said, i'm making due with what i have, and the net result thus far is that i've found my car drives better out of boost than any other MR2 i've driven- including those i've driven that were equipped with OEM valves.
There are many factors that affect how an MR2 drives off boost beyond the BPV. The choice of turbocharger, the exhaust, intake, cams, tuning, spark plugs, wires, cap, rotor .... shall I go on?

Regardless, you are debating your opinion that it drives better, which is amusing coming from someone on page 1 of this thread who was asking for imperical data.

in boost, i can find no discernable difference.And why would you? "Any" valve that is functioning properly (regardless of design) would be closed during boost; therefore, not affecting performance at all.


again, if education/helping mattered in the least to you, you would question why my car responds to this situation better (or even, for that matter, differently) than all the others that you have seen problems with. you would be interested in what is different about my car/setup that makes it drive better with an aftermarket valve when other cars drive worse with aftermarket valves?
If knowledge and education is important to me (which it is), the first thing I would want to know is the justification that your car does in fact drive better. Demonstrate that your car drives better and I will be interested. Your butt dyno and it's claim have no value to me.

you have not done this. therefore, i stand by my conclusion about your motives stated in my previous post, and with valid and sound logical reasoning to back it up. you leave little room to question the consistency of what i say when you do not do so yourself.*seriously rolls eyes*
If you are still entertaining this discussion, why on Earth would I have to ask you about your set up?
If your set up is so impressive, why even bring up the GReddy by-pass "feature" which would not be wroht doing?
Why wouldn't you have just talked about your set up?
I didn't ask you to bring up the silly business with the GReddy valve, so why would I have to inquire about your car?

I will fully admit at this point that we are way beyond educating and informing the "readers". I hope they have understood the points I made back on the first page and if not at least I presented it to them.
I fully admit from here forward I simply finding this discussion entertaining, but I resolve to keep my points to debating the engineering.

Alright, its gotten out of hand. Can a local moderator close this thread please. Its way off topic, i think it'd be better if this was stripped.