Did i make a mistake???

I didnt know of this board untill like 2 days ago, and bout 2 weeks ago i went to get my 1999 G20 lowered. I live in san jose california. So i went to this place in fremont called StreetWize to get it lowered, the guy showed my how much the E Pro kit would lower it, i wanted to lower it a bit more so he told me Intrax makes a kit that loweres it like 1.7 inches. i liked that better and ordered that kit. But know ive read some reviews on it that arent that great. So u think i made a mistake in picking intrax over E's Pro Kit?? Im not into racing or anything, im just doing it to make my car look nice.

Thanks

Originally posted by JasIzBac
i wanted to lower it a bit more so he told me Intrax makes a kit that loweres it like 1.7 inches. i liked that better and ordered that kit. But know ive read some reviews on it that arent that great. So u think i made a mistake in picking intrax over E's Pro Kit?? Im not into racing or anything, im just doing it to make my car look nice.

Well, if you've read the archives, I think you would have found your answer. I could give you an answer, but I'm one person. The archives will give you several answers, including from those who've had Sportlines.

IMHO: Cancel the order and buy some coilovers. I know you aren't interested in racing, but if you want a decent ride, coilovers are the only way to go.

whoa.......wait a second.....i thought you only really needed to spend the extra cash for coilovers if you Were racing.......im wrong? Anyways, what kind of coilovers are there (i know of JIC Magics and the B&G setup)......also, i was checkin out the ground control website, do you know if they make coilovers for the P11 (with the struts?)

Like George said, opinions are going to vary. I happen to like my Intrax. Of course I have them mated to KYB AGX's which helps a little.

is that pict with the intrax? becuase my tein's are much much lower than that... maybe one finger gap on the fender/tires

I believe thats stock ride height (in the picture)

shew ww what a relief atleast someone likes there Intrax's. and Yes sir the picture that is with the stock height. How much did those KYB's set u back?

Hey,

It's just been discovered that the P10 fronts and 95-99 sentra rears fit the p11 perfectly. The price is around $85 each. I have a friend with Intrax springs on his 99 g20 and the ride quality sucks. But he is using the stock shocks which are already busted. Your ride will be ok once you put on the aftermarket shocks and the drop will be great too. The only thing bad is that KYB voids the warrantly if your springs lower the car more than 1.5" and the intrax lower 1.75"

I like the rims you got on, who makes them and what size are they.

yep, regardless of the warranty, you should still invest in shocks for a safer, more pleasing driving.

But once you put in shocks that equals like 600-700 bucks. I would pay a bit more and get a set of Teins. They are a full suspension system, adjustable, and a close to stock ride. If you go with those springs and shocks the ride wont be as good and they arnt adjustable.

>>>I like the rims you got on, who makes them and what size are they. <<<

Thanks. They are made by Enkie and are called Fubuki and they are 17X7's.

I think ill keep the intrax for a while and then when i have enough money ill just get the Tein kit. But the problem i see with the tein kit is that i dont know how to adjust or do anything with the shocks and stuff. So ill need to take it to a shop and thats just going to cost shit load of money. I think i shouldve just sticked with E's Pro Kit.

Jaspreet

Originally posted by 2002G20Racer
But once you put in shocks that equals like 600-700 bucks. I would pay a bit more and get a set of Teins. They are a full suspension system, adjustable, and a close to stock ride. If you go with those springs and shocks the ride wont be as good and they arnt adjustable.

not true. The intrax springs are no more than $150-200 and the KYB Shocks are $350 for the set. The KYB AGX's Are EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE, just like the teins. If you add it up the total comes to around $500 or so. The Teins are $975 so you would have to pay just about double for the Teins. I don't see why the Teins are all that. They are not even true coilovers, just springs and shock combo. I can guarantee that with Eibach springs + KYB AGX shocks, I will get a ride as good as or even better than with the Teins!

Originally posted by wickedG20
I can guarantee that with Eibach springs + KYB AGX shocks, I will get a ride as good as or even better than with the Teins!

You will probably get the same ride: shitty!

What it boils down to is that lowering our cars more than 1.5" results in a shitty ride, hmm.. borderline horrible.


I've owned the following:

Intrax with stock shocks 1.7" drop (absolutely horrible, non stop bouncing)
Koni with GC's. (decent ride at 1.5" drop, lower and your getting back to horrible)
Teins (shitty on lowest, so-so on second lowest, probably decent on the top setting which I havent tried)

The main problem is that our cars have very little, borderline zero, suspension travel when you lower past that 1.5" mark.

Just in case anyone is wondering either, the Teins have WAY too much understeer.

You misunderstood me. I said the KYB AGX's with EIBACHS* which lower the car a mere 1.2-1.3". They are also progressive springs which will give you a better ride than the rest.

wicked- you get a one year warranty on the teins.

if you think your ride is good enough, doesnt matter what you use.

i agree on the ride quality if lowered too much. these p11s dont have much sus travel causing you to use a stiffer setting.

Originally posted by wickedG20
You misunderstood me. I said the KYB AGX's with EIBACHS* which lower the car a mere 1.2-1.3". They are also progressive springs which will give you a better ride than the rest.

It may be better than the Teins indeed, but still wont be great overall.

If you got the GC wit AGX's or Konis and set them at 1.5" you should be pretty happy. I was when I had the GC/Koni's. I should've never switched to Teins. They're not THAT bad, but the Koni's w/ Ground Control felt better and had less understeer.

I think I've determined the problem with the TEINS. The springs rates are too low. :rolleyes:

However with that being said modifying your bumpstops (shorting) will greatly reduce your understeer.

Personally, I feel the Teins are a good buy. My car handles bout 10 times better than stock.

Originally posted by Mrcoilover
Personally, I feel the Teins are a good buy. My car handles bout 10 times better than stock.

Personally, as a Tein owner, I'd have to admit that I think that it is a HUGE exaggeration.

The body roll is less apparent due to the lower height which is about the only plus I've found, along with improved looks. Handling of bumps isnt the best, it bottoms out a lot. Understeer is very much worse.


Again the Teins are an "OK" setup, dont get me wrong. But if I had the chance I'd switch back to Ground Controls with Koni or AGX's. or possibly try out the JIC-Magic setup. I have a feeling the B&G setup is similar handling to the Tein just because they use the same type springs (progressive).

Originally posted by b-b00gie
Personally, as a Tein owner, I'd have to admit that I think that it is a HUGE exaggeration.


Maybe a little exaggeration, but I'm cool with the set-up I got. If I was going for performance, would have mabye went otherwise. I think it handles bumps very well. I highly suggest them for the mean streets. So your saying that GC's will be better on bumps, that I ain't to sure. I'm not too sure they would be as comfortable at the same height as the Tein's.

i own a 94G with Intrax springs and kyb gr2 struts in the front.
looks nice but the only thing is that the back is a bit high
mite cut it and buy the new struts for the back.

Originally posted by Mrcoilover

So your saying that GC's will be better on bumps, that I ain't to sure.

Yep. Less understeer too. :) I dont recall the spring rates I had.


The Teins are a little too mushy. You can stiffen up the shock, but the spring doesnt really seem to like it.

Originally posted by b-b00gie


Yep. Less understeer too. :) I dont recall the spring rates I had.


The Teins are a little too mushy. You can stiffen up the shock, but the spring doesnt really seem to like it.

I don't know man. I think you have it out for Tein's even though you do own them. Anywayz, I am very pleased.

Okay Great!!!!! Before reading this conversation I was set on ordering a set of Teins!!:) :D

Now after reading this conversation, I am not so sure anymore!!! Now it's back to square one.:( :bloated:

What to do? What to do?

Originally posted by GoldP11
Okay Great!!!!! Before reading this conversation I was set on ordering a set of Teins!!:) :D

Now after reading this conversation, I am not so sure anymore!!! Now it's back to square one.:( :bloated:

What to do? What to do?

Say man, the Tein's are pretty good man. I would suggest these. I got mine for $975. They are great for the street.

Originally posted by Mrcoilover


I don't know man. I think you have it out for Tein's even though you do own them. Anywayz, I am very pleased.


LOL, I dont have some personal vendetta against Tein. If they were outstanding, I've rave about them, but I'm just pointing out the flaws.


The Teins are much better than lowering springs with stock shocks. If you have the Teins I would not put them on the lowest setting. On the middle ride height setting, the ride is decent. I havent tried, but on the top height setting they should be good (1.5" drop or so). The front will have more room to work and let the springs do their thing. Springs should be the major controller of your ride quality, not adjustable shocks.


The main problem here is that lowering our cars more than 1.5" (I have mine on 1.7" or so) will eventually bring you to the point that I'm at: hating a lowered ride. Our cars have very little suspension travel when lowered. The lower you go the worse the ride is overall.


The Teins suffer from some understeer. Not a big deal to most people here who are looking to lower their car and just have it ride "decent", but I wouldnt dub Tein as "the best" as some people have.


If you're looking for a performance setup I would not recommend Teins. If you are looking to lower your car and have a better ride than Eibach/Stock, HKS/Stock or Intrax/Stock, then yes I'd say the Teins are for you.


If you want more "performance" than Teins "lowering kit" will offer, I'd suggest:

Koni with Ground Controls
AGX with Ground Controls (no guinea pigs yet)
JIC-Magic

and possibly B&G although theres not enough info on them so I cant say.

Originally posted by b-b00gie
LOL, I dont have some personal vendetta against Tein. If they were outstanding, I've rave about them, but I'm just pointing out the flaws.


I understand what you saying.

This might be stupid to say, but has anybody tried the Tein struts, with the Ground Control coilovers? I know nothing about Ground controls or Teins, just kinda throwing the question out there!! It probably wouldn't even fit or work right!!

For the price of trying you could have the mighty JIC-Magic's! :D

For the price of trying you could have the mighty JIC-Magic's!
Yeah Okay I guess you have a point thre Boogie:D
BUT you get what you pay for, in most cases. Excluding Holidays, and weekends. Void where prohibited

you should try playing around with the stiffness on the rear if you are getting too much understeer...or get better tires. for the street na's work fine, the're not GREAT!!! but they're good enough...the dampers dont have nearly the capacity of a performance setup, but again, these are for dressup purposes like wat it says.

yah, cutting the bumpstops will probably improve the ride, but id probably raise the front 2perches up (approx 10mm)before I try dat.

Originally posted by Mrcoilover
I don't know man. I think you have it out for Tein's even though you do own them. Anywayz, I am very pleased.

Dude, I hate to say this, but what other reference point do you have?

First off I'd be inclined to listen to Boogie since he has some experience with both the Tein's and GC/Konis. Second, what he is saying goes along with everything I've heard about Konis (but admittedly have not experienced on a G).

One thing I know for sure that makes a difference is bottoming. Makes for a shitty ride.

Originally posted by b-b00gie
Springs should be the major controller of your ride quality, not adjustable shocks.

Not quite. I'm not trying to tweak your nose here Boogie. You're really close. Just trying to fill in the blanks.

Springs should set the stiffness of the suspension, rather than the dampers. I think that is part of what you are trying to get at. IOW, you don't want to make the dampers do the work of the springs. But (and here's the big but.....) dampers generally have more to do with ride quality (and performance as well). It's quite possible to have a stiffer set of springs ride better than a softer set, depending upon the dampers.

Let me go a little further. A spring will not only resist compression, but it will also want to rebound equally as quickly (for our purposes, we'll ignore insignificant losses through heat energy). Now, the resistance of the spring can make for an uncomfortable ride, but usually not. Most of the jarring under compression is a result of bottoming as you have accurately written.

But.... what IMHO affects the ride quality more is the control of the springs rather than the resistance of the springs themselves (and surprisingly enough, that also controls performance to a huge degree).

IMHO Japanese dampers have too much compression damping and not enough rebound damping. Not so surprisingly, Konis tend to be a little better balanced in this regard. What you want is for the spring to absorb the bump, but you don't want it to bounce back too quickly or you will get that sudden, brief, "floaty" feeling. IMHO, that (next to bottoming) has the biggest effect on ride. Now, too much rebound damping and make the dampers never fully rebound over a series of bumps until there is no ride height left and the ride sucks. But, you generally won't find that on a road damper.

So, with good damping characteristics, a good compromise on ride height/suspension travel, relatively stiff springs can still yield a very good ride. The ride in my G with the AGX/GCs 275/200 is surprisingly close to stock. The car still bottoms a bit too much, but I think when I finally install the Koni bump rubbers it'll be OK. It's just a bit too low IMHO as well, but I have it as high as it will go (still a good drop). I think when I can finally get around to installing some Konis (after I have my race car on the track and sorted) the ride will be truly outstanding. But, I cannot say for certain.

Donster has written quite a bit about the Konis as well. I know some folks don't like the idea of using P10 fronts and B14 rears, but his works and Don A) knows his suspension shit pretty well, B) had a P10 with Konis as well for a benchmark, C) lives in CA and hangs with the SERCA folks and has a lot of opportunity to experience a variety of suspensions.

Originally posted by b-b00gie
If you're looking for a performance setup I would not recommend Teins. If you are looking to lower your car and have a better ride than Eibach/Stock, HKS/Stock or Intrax/Stock, then yes I'd say the Teins are for you.

I can only go by what I've read, and from that it still sounds like the GC/AGX or GC/Koni set-up would be better than teh Teins for ride as well and for probably a similar price.

But, I'm forming an unbiased opinion from what I've read. I've never experienced the Teins or the Koni/GC before.

Originally posted by P10DET


Not quite. I'm not trying to tweak your nose here Boogie. You're really close. Just trying to fill in the blanks.

Springs should set the stiffness of the suspension, rather than the dampers. I think that is part of what you are trying to get at.

Hehe yep!

As I was writing that I thought... hmm thats not the best way to put it. But yeah the key word I missed way "stiffness". The springs should set the stiffness, not adjusting your shocks to be "stiffer". The shocks should control how fast the springs return to zero oscillation(sp?).

...is that better? ...getting warmer, LOL :p


btw, no offense taken, tweak away! thats what we're here for: learning from one another.

I have a question that does not relate to this issue, but since I see the quotes here, How do you ad the "Originally posted by _____ " thing when you take a quote from a previous post? Do you just type it in?

In the bottom right corner of someones post there is a link that says "quote". Click that and it'll do it automatically.

I have a P10 with AGX and Intrax the look is AWESOME but if you hit a bump in the road you will be bouncing. I am going to get Ground Controls ..... I am told old to be BOBBLE HEAD SHAWN anymore !!!

Originally posted by P10DET

....IMHO Japanese dampers have too much compression damping and not enough rebound damping. Not so surprisingly, Konis tend to be a little better balanced in this regard. What you want is for the spring to absorb the bump, but you don't want it to bounce back too quickly or you will get that sudden, brief, "floaty" feeling. IMHO, that (next to bottoming) has the biggest effect on ride......

....The ride in my G with the AGX/GCs 275/200 is surprisingly close to stock. The car still bottoms a bit too much, but I think when I finally install the Koni bump rubbers it'll be OK. It's just a bit too low IMHO as well, but I have it as high as it will go (still a good drop). I think when I can finally get around to installing some Konis (after I have my race car on the track and sorted) the ride will be truly outstanding. But, I cannot say for certain.......


Amen brother! What he said!

My stock dampers were a little worn at 115K so I replaced them with AGXs (foolishly leaving the stock springs in). I wasn't happy with the ride and mistakenly thought the AGXs had somehow made the ride too stiff. After further contemplation, I was convinced that it was the progressive rate stock springs being mismatched to the dampers. I also wanted to put on some bigger wheels and couldn't clear the AGX spring perches so I went out and got some Ground Controls. I wisely (finally, or maybe just luckily) did a little research and based largely on George's advice went with 300/225s. After a little hassle with incorrect parts and bad monkey skills got my car skidding around the streets again. I was initially dissapointed thinking that the 300/225s were too stiff and was hoping to swap someone for 275/200s. I have been playing with the AGXs and as I moved up from 1/1 other settings the ride has gotten better (I think the rebound damping is finally matching the spring rate). The compression part of the ride is better than stock and the rebound is now tolerable. I am lowered a good amount and I don't notice bottoming out when I would expect it (like a close series of progressively bigger bumps), but have felt the bubble head slam of bottoming out on some high speed big dips. I think the AGXs lighter rebound damping gets the car back up to a good height after a bump (with the somewhat uncomfortable low-G feeling).

So I need to get some Koni bumpstops, fix a few rattles and I will be a happy guy.

:D You always know I gotta say something. All my life I thought that GC's were always bouncy, no matter what. hmmmm:confused: . Yall are all hyping the Ground Controls up and everything and thats cool. I am happy with my Tein's because they give me what I wanted:eek: . A nice low drop with good ride quality. Hands down, the Tein's at a 1.7 inch drop has a good ride and takes bumps just as well as it did with stock suspension:silly2: . If I wanted performance, I might have gotten some GC's, but I don't plan on putting any more work into my car other than Rims/System/Suspension:buck:. Too all who had their mind on Tein's....they are good if you want a good drop with good ride. Take my word for it. Look at my name.:finger: