92 3.1L Cranks great, but won't start

I have a 1992 Chevy Lumina with the 3.1L engine.
I have had some problems with keeping it running at low RPMs for a while now. Some days it runs like a dream. Others it will stall when I come to a stop. In the past I have remedied the situation by keeping on the gas at stops and riding the brake at lower speeds while gassing it.

Well, I'm at work right now, and the darn thing won't start. It cranks perfectly. (New starter) Not even a sputter. It ran beautifully on the way to work this morning. How can I diagnose the problem? Given its behavior over the last few months, does this sound like a sensor issue, something with a sticky valve, or a fuel pump problem? The only other time this happened, about 4 days ago, the car started after 3 tries. No such luck today. Any suggestions or help is greatly appreciated.

-Fry

you might have a problem with idle air control valve , and possibly the egr valve is stuck open. as far as not starting, check to see if you are getting a signal from the crankshaft position sensor and the camshaft position sensor. PM me and tell me what you get

If all else fails test your injectors the symptoms sound familiar to an injector problem I had.

The computer is bad. Any time you have an intermittent problem that keeps it from running and then just goes away is a strong sign that the comuter is bad...There is a bad capacitor in the power control circuit. when the capacitor malfunctions the computer sees that the car is running wide open throttle and gives maximum spark advance and maximum fuel delivery. any sensor that runs off of reference voltage is affectecd by the computer going haywire...

Is that.. hmm, what's the word I'm looking for?

Ahh, yes. Expensive?

It shouldnt cost over $150.. know its not cheap but its workable...you can also try a used computer if you dare...sometimes they work sometimes they dont...and once you buy it its yours...here is a link. http://www.partsamerica.com/PartDetails.asp?SourceArea=&SourcePage=SEARCHRESULTS&MfrCode=nie&MfrPartNumber=ECC7727&PartType=248&PTSet=A

here is another.. http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker/?UseCase=C001&UserAction=answerRequiredQuestion&Parameters=%7C%7EWITH+GASOLINE+ENGINE&PageSync=6

the second one from autozone is 73 dollars...not bad... :thumbsup:

I have the same problem on a 93 Lumina APV 3.1L. No spark and NO gas at the injectors. Checked the pickup coil and coil and checked all connections at the distributor. Here's the thing - it worked fine for quite a while then back to the old behaviour; won't start if warm but will start up fine a couple of hours later, sometimes stalls at idle (usually at a busy intersection). Let me know if the computer swap turns out OK! I'm gonna take out the distributor and clean everthing up and try again :banghead:

ignition control module can be an intermittant problem too

If you want to do diagnostics, try www.alldatadiy.com for $24.95/year/one vehicle you can have access to a web version of the GM service manual and Gm part prices. I hate to sound like a infomercial, but its pretty handy when you need it

The mechanic said it was a computer problem after he had it for 3 days. He also recommended I take it to a dealer to confirm his diagnosis. Since that will run $50 just for them to hook it up, I'm going to take a trip to a junkyard and find a brand new used computer and do a swap. I will let you know how it goes. It may be a while though. The weather has been nasty and I don't know anyone that enjoys working on cars in the freezing cold bustin' up their knuckles. Then again, it is just the computer.

you might have a problem with idle air control valve , and possibly the egr valve is stuck open. as far as not starting, check to see if you are getting a signal from the crankshaft position sensor and the camshaft position sensor. PM me and tell me what you get


I'm pretty sure the 3.1L has neither a crankshaft nor a camshaft position sensor. It does have a knock sensor?!?!?!

fyi the 3.1 does have a crankshaft positioning sensor it should be on the backside of the engine next to the tranny.

92's have a crank position sensor, wires go from it directly to the ICM. Wonder if part of the problem is the TCC staying engaged?

FRY look at right side of radiator there is sensor remove plug wire and see how the car run

Jeffi. check for power to the ecu. you might have a blown fuse. no spark or injector power sounds like total ecm failure...check all the fuses and power leads..

i keep thinking computer then the van starts up and runs fine for a while. When it won't start, it cranks great just like Fry's but no spark and no fuel. I've been holding onto a lead when the car changes its mind. Got a good jolt and could see pulses of gas from the injectors. How likely is it that the ignition module is heating up and shorting due to no heat dissipation in the distributor (ie. no installation grease)??

Its possible if you dont have any heat dissapition grease on it, but you should still get some fuel to the motor..if you can find any one with the same car, try to borrow the computer an swap it out for a couple of days..

This is a long post, sorry

I too have a 92 Lumina with the 3.1, just hit 103K miles, replaced battery about a month ago, previous one had been in for 8 years and finally just couldn't turn it over in the frigid cold. Each time I've disconnected the battery, and then reconnected it, the first starts have been really rough. This last time, I had to pull the whole air box out, but I didn't remove the intake plenum. Took it for a drive and came to a stoplight, it came to a stop and then engine just died out. Started back up and things seemed fine. It starts fine, when it's cold it sounds like it runs fast, like high idle, then when she warms up, it drops into low idle. Couple weeks ago, I left it idling while I ran into work real quick, came out, and the engine wasn't running, key still on. Started right up and ran fine. Last week, I put a sirius tuner in and was sitting in my driveway getting everything dialed in, and it died out again. Just turned it off and went inside. Took it to friend's house and it did the same thing, this time I had to get to work, so I tried to start it back up and it wouldn't start. It would turn over fine, and fire a little bit, but it wouldn't fire up and run unless my foot was on the gas. Radiator fan was running, and I believe it dies everytime the fan wants to kick on. Every other time the fan would come on, the engine would bog down a little and then return to normal, probably because of the current draw. This time it's enough to stall it out. I was sitting at a stoplight today after driving for about half an hour, quite a long light, and it died again, put it in neutral, left foot on brake, right on the gas and I managed to fire it up right as the light turned green, put it in drive and off I went. Noticed it didn't have much power, and oh...NO SPEEDOMETER. #@$)! Something's really messed up now. Got it onto the freeway and it didn't want to shift, but reluctantly did after babying it and holding up traffic. Speedo shot up soon after...then speedo dropped back down about a minute later and shot right back up. Also worth noting, last night I did a reset of my IAC, thinking that might have been the cause why it was idling too low to run the alternator under heavy load. I don't have a tach, so I wasn't sure how fast it was running, this was the third time the IAC reset and idled fast, the first 2 times I didn't know what was going on, so I put it in gear and it calmed down. Last night, I reversed out of my driveway and went through neutral, was still running high, slipped it into drive, check engine light flashed on then off for a split second, and then the engine came into idle. Thought everything was good. If that's not right, please let me know. That's the ONLY time any of my indicators have come on, except when it dies and all the lights come on. None of them came on today while it was driving or any other time. I suspect that I have a problem with my ECM/PCM. I know this is a lot to read, and I hope someone can give me a better idea of what the problem is. If any of these symptoms sound familiar, please volunteer any info you may have. It's a great car, no rust, surprisingly for a MN car, 12 years old, 103K miles...engine pulls like a son of a gun when she runs right. Everything with the air box assembly and plenum is back together and tight, so I don't suspect any leaks. Please help

~~DJ

You have a bad ecu. This problem has been posted many times with this car.. It all leads back to the ecu that was put on these cars..its a piece of S**T. search my posts for luminas..I have posted the advance auto parts part number and price..

Ok, I swapped the computer weekend before last. Everything seemed fine at first, but the car will still not start on occasion. I have been unable to drive it to work all week. At first it would not start on rare ocassions, but now it will not start at all. It seems all I have been reading points to a EGR or idle air control valve like joe said first thing. I Have the repair manual for my car now and plan to dig into it this weekend, weather permitting. I really just want to do some simple stuff, like detecting spark, is the fuel pump running, cleaning valves, etc. I'm only a routine maintenance expert, and not a great shadetree mechanic. YET! I just have a gut feeling that this is something simple and when I finally figure it out, my horrible idling problem will just go away.
Any suggestions for simple stuff while I'm under the hood?
By the way, where is the EGR valve? Am I going to have to pull the plenum? I have a photo of one in my book, but I still don't know where the heck it is.

I will definately make it a point to post whenever I figure out what is the cause. I think much of the time people figure out what is wrong on some advice from this forum, and they never let anyone else know. How is anyone supposed to learn from someone else's experience that way?

Anyway, my summary goes as follows.
1. Swapped computer - Still won't start.

Sorry it took so long to get back here. I moved last weekend, and I still don't have internet at home yet.

I swapped out my ECM, too. Ran for 1/2 hour then I shut it down. Waited 15 minutes and it wouldn't start. Again, cranks great but NO gas at the injectors and NO spark at the coil wire!!! A couple of days ago I took the ignition module in and they tested it and tested it. It never failed. I'm gonna start checking with the Magic 8 Ball or the Ouija board soon!!!!!!!

on 2/17 i asked you to disconnect radiator sensor on right side did you do that
let me know please
thanks

michel

Michelq,
Sorry, somehow I have missed that sensor remark. I have not tried it, but its a little too late to try now. I have the engine all apart.

I figured I would kill two birds with one stone and fix the massive oil leak I have been having lately while I was working on my car. The mechanic wanted 300 beans to fix that. I bought a new o-ring today for a buck. The distributor dummy rod will be going back in tomorrow. Oil leak should be gone then.

I'm working on a couple things right now to remedy the starting issue. I will keep all you guys posted about how it works. I have a good feeling about it though.
-Fry

Michel,
I would try it but I can't find a sensor attached to the radiator. Am I looking for the coolant temp sending unit? My coolant temp sender is on the driver's side of the head toward the firewall. My Lumina is an APV with HEI (distributor) ignition. No crank sensor. No cam sensor. Knock sensor, though. I'm starting to gather that the 3.1 car and 3.1 van are a little different. However, good luck Fry and I'll check back as to your progress.
Jeff

most 3.1 liter eng has rad coolent sensor it has 3 wires not all has it located right front of rad
all late model cars and trucks has cranck sensor even vans
michel

After two solid days under the hood and 1 sunburn later, my car seems to be in good working order. No more oil leak, no more starting problem, no more idling problem. Thank you, God.
I took her for a brief spin tonight, and she smells a little funny from some spilled coolant, but otherwise works great.
Here is the rundown:
Symptoms:
1. Car idled poorly
2. Car would crank over, but would not start.
3. Car had a rather bad oil leak.

Solution:
I bought one of those book about my Lumina. It was VERY handy. After some reading I decided what I needed to do. I sort of suspected where the oil leak was coming from, the distributor dummy rod. Fortunately, it was on the side of the engine I would have to tear down.

I removed the throttle body, EGR valve, and air plenum. That gave me plenty of room to pull the rod and replace a very dry and brittle o-ring, solving my oil leak. I hear this is a common problem spot for these 3.1 engines. I bought some throttle body cleaner at auto zone as well as some replacement gaskets, a couple hoses, and some lock tite. I took the EGR valve apart and gave it a good cleaning. It was rather dirty with quite a bit of build up. I cleaned up the throttle body and plenum with the cleaner. I slapped on some new gaskets, a couple new hoses, and patched her back up in one afternoon.
Like I said, she runs great so far, but time will tell.
To be honest I think the EGR valve just needed a good cleaning, but I went ahead and did a little extra to be sure. Some extra clean parts won't hurt the car, I'm sure.
All in all, I'd say I spent about 50 bucks on all the parts and it took me 2 days. I got an oil leak fixed and a coolant flush in that price as well. This is the most complicated work I have done on a car to date, and it wasn't so bad.
The worst part was removing and reinserting the hoses. Man, some of those were rough, and took up more time than any other one thing.
Thanks to everyone who had words of advice. You guys helped out a lot!

Thanks and good night!
-Fry

So that's it? A dirty EGR valve causing Fry's start problems? I don't think so! I'll lay odds he'll be back!

:banghead: Hello everyone! Well I'm experiencing a very similar problem with my 92 Lumina Euro 3.1L, cranks fine, won't start, drove into the drive everythings cool, next morning crank away but no start. This car was not stalling, or giving any start problems, other than 3 weeks prior it wouldn't start for my daughter at the store, i told her not to run the battery down or burn up my starter, and i'd be right there, approx 10 minutes later I get there, get in the car and it started right up. The check engine light had been coming on intermittently for some time, and sometimes when idling when the check engine light came the engine would lower idle speed just a little and kind of stagger, never die even if in gear. So starts the diagnoses, get the little test key from auto zone, reads code 43, "computer or knock sensor" . I finally break down and buy the ECM because everone told me the knock sensor would not keep it from starting??? still not sure about that.

Have replced ECM, still won't start, still reading code 43.

Any suggestions for testing things before I just start buying parts, and would the knock sensor keep it from starting?

Any suggestions would be helpful.

Oh yeah extreme temperature involved.

I dont think running out and replacing the ecu when the second the car doesnt start is a good idea. The unit seldom fails, and one should do many many tests before replacing an ecu. There are plenty of problems that are not ecu related that could cause intermittent failures. If you crank and you dont have spark, you have to check the entire ignition system before replacing the ecu. And if you have spark, be sure if you have fuel...if you dont, diagnose that...dont just run out and waste your money on an ecu.


just my humble opinion.

mine turned out to be the ignition module afterall! It's inside the distributor. Even though it originally tested out fine, had it to a garage where it was scoped and IM replaced. No problem since! Couple of months now. Use a GM part. Good luck