Which new compact car would make the best pocket rocket?

I would take teh Acura RSX-S or newer Type-R. Fun cars indeed. But the VW Beetle 1.8T is the BEST pocket rocket.

Originally posted by Racer 20
But the VW Beetle 1.8T is the BEST pocket rocket.

:apuke: :apuke:

hehe :D

I'm not kidding. Go test drive one! lol Make sure it's the 1.8T not the 2.0. lol :D

With the global platform used by VW, you can transplant an Audi 6 cylinder engine and Quattro system into the VW beetle and Jetta i believe. That wouldn't be bad at all.

VW has a 8 cylinder coming out for Passat it's call W8.

It also has a S Class fighter call D1 coming out.

Originally posted by F20C
VW has a 8 cylinder coming out for Passat it's call W8.

W8? doesn't that mean it's 2 banks of 4 cylinders? but than it would be 2 V4s and i don't think car's use V4s... they're not good
so how does that make sense? cause like the W12 is 2 banks of V6 engines

Originally posted by gang$tarr
W8? doesn't that mean it's 2 banks of 4 cylinders? but than it would be 2 V4s and i don't think car's use V4s... they're not good
so how does that make sense? cause like the W12 is 2 banks of V6 engines The VW W8 engine is two banks of four cylinders, but staggered. If you were looking down on the cylinder heads they'd be like:
O O
O O
That means the crankshaft zigzags around all over the place.

It's like two V4s that overlap and share the crank. Wow, this is hard to explain... :confused:

Originally posted by jay@af
The VW W8 engine is two banks of four cylinders, but staggered. If you were looking down on the cylinder heads they'd be like:
O O
O O
That means the crankshaft zigzags around all over the place.

It's like two V4s that overlap and share the crank. Wow, this is hard to explain... :confused:

that doesn't look like a "W" lol :D
why don't they just stick in a V8, what are the advantages of a W8?

Originally posted by gang$tarr
that doesn't look like a "W" lol :D
That was from the top. The "W" shape is from the front. But really, it's more like two overlapping Vs.
Originally posted by gang$tarr
why don't they just stick in a V8, what are the advantages of a W8? http://www.plauder-smilies.de/sad/nixweiss.gif

Originally posted by gang$tarr


that doesn't look like a "W" lol :D
why don't they just stick in a V8, what are the advantages of a W8?

It's actually closer like this VV.

The result is a engine 25% shorter than inline 8 and 75% more narrow than V8. Overall it's a very compact engine.

Originally posted by F20C


It's actually closer like this VV.


and what does that look like? .......................... a W
hehe :D

Originally posted by F20C


It's actually closer like this VV.

The result is a engine 25% shorter than inline 8 and 75% more narrow than V8. Overall it's a very compact engine.

how could this:

0 0
0 0
0 0
0 0


(I think I've got the configuration right)
be 75% more narrow than this?



0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0

:confused:

Originally posted by hakka


how could this:

0 0
0 0
0 0
0 0


(I think I've got the configuration right)
be 75% more narrow than this?



0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0

:confused:

cause make the top one upright and baddabing baddaboom it's more narrow :D

ooohh, I see. Didn't understand that it was upright. Then it would be really tall though:( If they wanted a compact 8 cylinder engine, they could just base it off of Ford's 302....they're really small

what that motor is is basically two vr6 motors w/the back two cyls lopped off and kinda v'd.
so it is tiny... you would have to see the pic to understand
the vr6 is a tight angle six, only a 15degree angle in there, so it only has one cyl head...
so it technically is two vr4 motors back to back...
and the w12 and such are basically the same ideas... they are based on the vr6 as opposed to a conventional v8 or v6... so you have to take the narrow ass difference there... http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/lancia/58/technical_school/engine/smooth5.htm
this should explain it pretty well... and look at the w12...
two vr6s back to back... still only a 72 degree block... narrrrrrrrrrrrow...

thanks for the explanation fly

that was a bitch to find too...
vw has nothing on their website, so i had to search all over... it is by far one of the best descriptions i have found, and a definite nod to the brains over at vw...

here's a pic of a VR6 and I6 and V6 so just imagine two more cylinders...http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/lancia/58/technical_school/engine/vr6_length.jpg

that site, Autozine, is freakin awesome! the whole thing is done by one guy! he has exstensive articles on nearly every car and his technical school is amazing! i learned soo much stuff from him. sad thing is, is he doesnt update the tech. school anymore... just every month he comes out w/new reviews:( still a good site though..

Lets get one thing straight. There is a big difference between ford and svt. anything with the svt is totally different. i would go with the rsx type s because it's a ricer and which means you can probably find more parts for it.

i just recently battled over the decision of the wrx and the rsx. In my opinion and some friends at a local speed shop here, the aftermarket parts companies are definitely going to wait and see what happens with the sales of these two cars. I have yet to even see more than one on the road and I travel every week. I test drove the two cars. yes the wrx hit 0-60 three tenths of a second faster but that doesnt mean anything really. Yes the tuning ability of the wrx could prove to be much much greater thanks to the turbo. the all wheel drive is nice. i was biased though based on my previous ownership of a car i had a blast souping up, a 97 integra. the type s is more affordable, has a sportier more comfortable interior, it's a sports coupe and not a sedan which i like, the rev happy 2.0 is insane. i bought a desert silver rsx type s the night i test drove it two weeks ago. the car is freakin awesome! i can see an excellent future for this thing after a couple mods, ex. intake, coilovers and custom struts, nothing else required. the suspension is set up nice, very stiff in the corners thanks to all stiffeners and tougher springs. my recommendation: test drive the type s

i tried to make that svt point for god knows how long... and no one here listens... just to reiterate, the motors are built by cosworth, not ford. the tranny is a getrag 6spd. all the rest is svt
which is not ford. no one gets that.
and hell, the focus isnt even an american car.
it was a world car, then it came here.
so it is technically an import... hmm... table turner there...

just as an example, if you dont know what an escort cosworth rs is, do you think its crap b/c it is a ford?
hmm... lets see that one get some response...

Originally posted by flylwsi
no one gets that.
and hell, the focus isnt even an american car.
it was a world car, then it came here.
so it is technically an import... hmm... table turner there...


where's it made though?

they probably sold all of them and you might've already bought your pocket rocket (i haven't been keeping up w/ the thread and I am to lazy to look back), if you could get your hands on a Mazda Mp3...


Alright, it IS 4 doors and it IS under-powered, but it beat the Ferrari 360 Modena and the Chevrolet Corvette on the slalom and it has great handling (obviously). It also has Racing Heart Allow wheels (or something like that) and Racing Beat exhaust and MoMo steering wheel and a GREAT kenwood excellon audio system and cool seats and white guages.

I would definitately get that or the RSX. But good luck finding one. ;)



Adam

Originally posted by flylwsi
i tried to make that svt point for god knows how long... and no one here listens... just to reiterate, the motors are built by cosworth, not ford. the tranny is a getrag 6spd. all the rest is svt
which is not ford. no one gets that.
and hell, the focus isnt even an american car.
it was a world car, then it came here.
so it is technically an import... hmm... table turner there...

just as an example, if you dont know what an escort cosworth rs is, do you think its crap b/c it is a ford?
hmm... lets see that one get some response...

When I saw the interior picture shot. The dashboard looks like shared with other Ford Focus. I would like the RS220 to come over to N/A that car looks pretty awesome.

Originally posted by Adam
they probably sold all of them and you might've already bought your pocket rocket (i haven't been keeping up w/ the thread and I am to lazy to look back), if you could get your hands on a Mazda Mp3...


Alright, it IS 4 doors and it IS under-powered, but it beat the Ferrari 360 Modena and the Chevrolet Corvette on the slalom and it has great handling (obviously). It also has Racing Heart Allow wheels (or something like that) and Racing Beat exhaust and MoMo steering wheel and a GREAT kenwood excellon audio system and cool seats and white guages.

I would definitately get that or the RSX. But good luck finding one. ;)



Adam

That's the trick of having beef up suspension, anti roll bar and performance tire. But does it matter if the car takes 9 second to reach 60mph? It's like Honda people claiming most hp/litre. Doesn't matter if you are producing 120hp/L or not you still get beat by a 70hp/l Corvette.

MP3 is a fun car to drive but no go. Good thing Mazda recognize this and is pumping up the power.

Are they really? are they making more? that'd be awesome. The thing about BHP is that I don't care to much about how fast it is. I wouldn't drive it fast anyway. I wouldn't care. It looks cool and is great to drive.

but i haven't driven it, so i can't talk about it too much.


tchus,

Adam

I only driven it couple times as well. Very fun but too slow maybe cause I am used to driving faster cars.

Do you own SupercarStats.com?

F20C - yes, SupercarStats.com & PaganiZonda.com are owned by me.

Very nice site.

Just wondering what do you think are the important parts of a car.

Platform? Chassis? Powertrain? Engine?

One more question doesn't SVT uses a Ford ZETEC engine? Or did Cosworth help with the process?

F20C: thanx, i'm working on a better design tho.





About the thread:

is bassik27 (is that right) still looking for a pocket rocket to buy?

Originally posted by Adam

I would definitately get that or the RSX. But good luck finding one. ;)



Adam

RSXs aren't hard to find :confused:
they have lots at the Acura dealerships

KEYWORD: THAT or the RSX. That is hard to find.



That = Mazda MP3

There is only 1500 MP3's for North America and 250 of them went to Canada. Now what are your chances of finding one that the dealership will sell at MSRP? The is absolutely zero!!

listen, the guy said he wanted to tune his car, the GTI VR6 is the WORST choice. Sure, from the factory it has a six speed and 204HP but the 1.8T has 180HP and a really slick five speed all at a lower price. The turbo is easier and less expensive to tune with MAJOR power gains, it handles better (less weight over the front axle), all that and it starts a few thousand dollar less than the six cylinder. My second choice would be the new WRX, not as good looking as the 1.8T but again, turbo engines are easy to tune with major gains, and AWD is very usefull in all weather conditions with a tuned-turbo car. The RSX is new and unproven, I have nothing against it besides the fact that it has virtually no aftermarket following (I know that'll change). The Civic SI is so tired, it used to be a cool little car that didn't cost much, now it's getting expensive and big, and it's little vtec power plant doesn't scoot it with much authority. I like the Focus styling and price, and that it was designed by Ford Europe. The Focus is the bargain of the bunch and the torquey littly Zetec engine has a lot of potential. That's about all i have to say about that, replies are welcome. peace.

Originally posted by PFCfutrell
listen, the guy said he wanted to tune his car, the GTI VR6 is the WORST choice. Sure, from the factory it has a six speed and 204HP but the 1.8T has 180HP and a really slick five speed all at a lower price. The turbo is easier and less expensive to tune with MAJOR power gains, it handles better (less weight over the front axle), all that and it starts a few thousand dollar less than the six cylinder. My second choice would be the new WRX, not as good looking as the 1.8T but again, turbo engines are easy to tune with major gains, and AWD is very usefull in all weather conditions with a tuned-turbo car. The RSX is new and unproven, I have nothing against it besides the fact that it has virtually no aftermarket following (I know that'll change). The Civic SI is so tired, it used to be a cool little car that didn't cost much, now it's getting expensive and big, and it's little vtec power plant doesn't scoot it with much authority. I like the Focus styling and price, and that it was designed by Ford Europe. The Focus is the bargain of the bunch and the torquey littly Zetec engine has a lot of potential. That's about all i have to say about that, replies are welcome. peace.

I am not 100% sure but VR6 have 6 speed which is more optimal over 5 speed. There are plent of turbo applications for VR6 engine. VR6 with Turbo will have more potential than 1.8T because of displacement. 1.8T can run safely up to around 380hp. Whereas VR6 can go to about 400whp. Basically VR6 engine can take a lot of punishment.

Is the VR6 just a detuned-deturboed S4 engine? I know there was a Beetle with a modded S4 engine that made 508 HP. There's a company (For the right price) that will custom build you a Volkswagen using Audi and Porsche parts, their like Lego.

No because one is 2.7L and the other is 2.8L ;) Their design is different too because one is V6 and the other is VR6.

You are talking about the company based in Langley Canada. I think it was call HPA Motorsports or something. They built a 500hp Turbo 4 Motion Beetle.

They said their package is aim at Audi TT which have factory AWD.

S4 engine is A4's 2.8L engine de-bored and stroke.

If you're going to spend the money to turbocharge/supercharge or any other major modification to a VR6 equipped GTI you might as well buy a Camaro SS or something equally fast from the factory. By purchasing the 1.8T you save several thousand dollars which could be put towards a few simple modifications that would make it faster/handle better than a stock VR6. The kicker is that the modified 1.8T would end up costing the same as the VR6 but handle better and accelerate faster. The 2001 1.8T also comes standard with the KO4 turbo, a bit larger than the previous KO3 which means the 1.8T has the potential to make a LOT of horsepower. The point is that sure the VR6 has potential, but at what cost? The 1.8T in the Audi TT (virtually identical) can produce 225HP, it doesn't take much to be rewarded with major power gains.

Originally posted by Adam
KEYWORD: THAT or the RSX. That is hard to find.



That = Mazda MP3

k, well you never said THAT is hard to find

you said you'd get that or an rsx, but good luck finding it

i was wondering which one you were talkin bout

Originally posted by PFCfutrell
If you're going to spend the money to turbocharge/supercharge or any other major modification to a VR6 equipped GTI you might as well buy a Camaro SS or something equally fast from the factory. By purchasing the 1.8T you save several thousand dollars which could be put towards a few simple modifications that would make it faster/handle better than a stock VR6. The kicker is that the modified 1.8T would end up costing the same as the VR6 but handle better and accelerate faster. The 2001 1.8T also comes standard with the KO4 turbo, a bit larger than the previous KO3 which means the 1.8T has the potential to make a LOT of horsepower. The point is that sure the VR6 has potential, but at what cost? The 1.8T in the Audi TT (virtually identical) can produce 225HP, it doesn't take much to be rewarded with major power gains.

A4 1.8T still uses the K03 Turbo. Although I am not sure but I don't think GTI is any different. The difference in hp is not the turbo. The Turbo package for VR6 are not cheap however they produce more potential than 1.8T engine does. Also they are not as expensive as you think. You can get more immediate gains by buying the factory Turbo. However if you are true enthusiast you would care about the full potential. VR6 can take more beating than 1.8T! TT etc all still use the Triple K03 Turbo. What you need to look at is immediate gains or long term gains. You can get up to 280 hp with K03 Turbo.

So let me explain again.

VR6 engine 400+ WHP
1.8T 380hp

Listen pal, starting in 2001, they use the KO4 turbo, my mom has a '01 Jetta 1.8T and it has the KO4, from the factory. A turbo kit for the VR6 would cost over 3000 dollars, that's about the difference in price between a VR6 and a 1.8T stock. No matter what you do to a VR6 it still won't handle as well as a 1.8T which is the concern of a true enthusiast. I'll steal someone elses quote to conclude my rant.

"Straightaways are for fast cars, corners are for fast drivers."

thank you very much.

The turning radius of the 1.8T is 32.? feet, the VR6 is 34.? feet, not too mention the weight distribution of the 1.8T is superior to the VR6 due to a smaller, lighter engine.

Originally posted by PFCfutrell
Listen pal, starting in 2001, they use the KO4 turbo, my mom has a '01 Jetta 1.8T and it has the KO4, from the factory. A turbo kit for the VR6 would cost over 3000 dollars, that's about the difference in price between a VR6 and a 1.8T stock. No matter what you do to a VR6 it still won't handle as well as a 1.8T which is the concern of a true enthusiast. I'll steal someone elses quote to conclude my rant.

"Straightaways are for fast cars, corners are for fast drivers."

thank you very much.

Why would VW use a K03 for Audi A4 1.8T and TT and a K04 for Jetta 1.8T!

Originally posted by PFCfutrell
The turning radius of the 1.8T is 32.? feet, the VR6 is 34.? feet, not too mention the weight distribution of the 1.8T is superior to the VR6 due to a smaller, lighter engine.

Yes it's smaller and lighter. However VR6 is a lot more compact than regular V6. So the difference isn't as great as you think.

F20C...

you shed new light on it. I never thought about dealer mark-up on the MP3.





about the RSX hard to find thingy....

I know I wasn't too clear, it should be obvious tho. anwayz...

pfc...
have you seen a vr6 next to a 1.8t?
they are so close in size that it is hard to tell the diff.
and i would still have a vr6 if i was buying..
if i was leasing, i would go to the 1.8...
so why is the turning radius different, and what is the real diff in wt there? i dont think it is huge
and a vr6 in a corner handles no diff than a 1.8...
trust me.
if they both have lowend tq, then it is no diff, and the vr would be more fun to drive, b/c it has more tq, especially in the twisties...
and i dont get what you are getting at about it being better...


and what f20c said about the extent of the 1.8t's power being 380, i am damn sure he didnt mean a stock turbo...
and even if you did upgrade, or had the higher turbo, you still wouldnt get waaaay higher power like you think... especially when you consider that you can push out over 700hp from a vr6... and that isnt hard... vs pushing 700 from a 1.8... that is a task and a half...

I'll use a real life example, when my mother went shopping for a new car she asked my advice because i'd know what she'd like. She appreciates good handling quick cars but wanted something bigger than a CRX so I pointed her at the '01 Jetta 1.8t. The one she ended up with costed about 21k versus 24k+ for the VR6 and got better fuel economy. With the 3k you save buying the 1.8t you could make it quicker and handle better than a VR6, the peak potential for the 1.8T might not be as high as the VR6 but who really needs 350hp+ on the street? As i've said before, small mods go a long way on the 1.8T where the VR6 is VERY expensive to modify and the gains aren't as drastic. I could argue this point all day but I have a long drive tonight so i've got to go.

First off I find the Celica GTS entirley too much money. Second The RSX is ugly, except for the interior which is probably my favorite interior. The civic SI gives the Aztec a run for its money in the "HEY LOOK HOW UGLY I AM!" category, and the focus, well I don't see the point in making the true econobox econoboxes fast(and that does include the civic). Off your list I would probably consider the VW, with the WRX 2nd, and a third and fourth added choice. The Sentra SE-R VSpec, and open mind folks, the mercury cougar S(hard to find, but it does exist). I can't really make a choice w/o test driving those though.
Let me tell you something about the cougar real quick. It has great bang for your buck(18,000) 196 hp. Reliability. I have a 1999 Cougar made in 98 though. With 45,000 miles, and I haven't had a single problem yet, but no car should have a problem until at least 70,000 miles.

ok...
i never doubted it is cheaper to mod a 1.8t...
if you go to the vw section, i argue wholeheartedly for it.

my point is, if you have a long term car, which you will own and mod the funk out of, buy a vr6.
the end result will be wild, even though it is more expensive.
if you lease a car, get the turbo.
i never said the 1.8 was worse, it is all a matter of what you are doing in the long run. if you want a mad powerhouse that you can cheaply mod, go turbo. if you want an insanely mad powerhouse w/ big gun mods, go vr6. simple as that.

I suppose I can understand that we were arguing on two different topics. I was saying that the 1.8t is a better choice 'cause it's less expensive and little shit goes a long way. You were arguing that the VR6 has more power/potential than the 1.8t because it's bigger. If you have a deep wallet for mods and need big power than by all means, get the VR6. If you have not so deep pockets and can deal with only 250 reliable horsepower, go 1.8T. A little off topic but who cares, the weirdest thing for me when driving the 1.8T is that you can launch pretty hard and not spin the tires 'till the turbo spools. I'm used to NA cars so having a car that doesn't spin the tires at 3000 and then breaks free at 5000+ is a little strange. The traction control will kill your chances of winning a race if you leave it on, my friend kept losing because it'd cut the fuel off when he spun.

A bit off-topic I guess as it's not available in North America, but my vote would have to go to the outrageous Renault Sport Clio V6.
Not many manufacturers would have the guts to do what Renault has, which is this:
Take the comparatively tiny and mundane Renault Clio 1.1 - 2 litre FWD hatch, discard all the mechanicals, and the rear seat, notably widen and scoop out the body then in the space previously occupied by said rear seat jam in a 230hp 3 litre V6 driving through the rear wheels :eek:
What a beasty!

Do you have a pic of the Renault

http://www.renault.co.uk/images/cars/clio_v6/vn_v6_main2.jpgHave a toke at this, Cannabis. Sorry about the vague pic, it's from the Renault site. The Sport Clio V6 is smaller than a Golf and it's engine is pretty healthy too, all-alloy with a 11.4 comp. ratio and lots of torque. Try http://www.renault.co.uk