Audi RS4 vs. Ford SVT Cobra

For everyday speed thrills...which do you choose?

RS4

http://www.tiscali.co.uk/motoring/roadtests/images/ftrs41.jpg

or

SVT Cobra

http://www.fantasycars.com/derek/cars/images/ford/2003cobra_2.jpg

Very different cars.

I'll take the RS4, it's a comfortable cruiser. The Cobra does nothing for me.

In this case i'd pick american over european. Cobra has a much more historical past and i like the design more than the RS4. somehow i'd always feel faster in the mustang even if im not going as fast so i'd pick it

RS4 w/a chip and intake could give your SVT a run for its historical past...lol

Cobra. Please. It would embarass an RS4. Once modding comes in the picture. The embarrassing becomes even greater.

RS4 would definately provide me with more than the Cobra could. Its got the broad and the elegance wrapped into the same box. Its price tag would be the only thing stopping me from getting one over the Cobra, but im sure it can be justified.

As crayzajay put it, their very different cars. A Cobra, and a RS4? Given the RS4 has its performing traits, it is not on the same market as a Mustang Cobra.

RS4.......Practicality,, quality, AWD and turbo-charged thrills, what more could a man want????


This opposed to a Cobra which is a driveable car, but doesn't have any of the above features that the RS4 can bring. Well it has a Supercharger, but they're not nearly as fun as Turbos.

The RS4 would need the limiter removed, which is easily done, I just show Audi my motorsport licence and they sort me out. (WEll I'm not sure if I'll need my licence for Audi, but I know BMW require it before they take the limiter off)


So yeah, Audi and then to clebrate, buy me a weekend up in the slopes.

03 Cobra please.... the RS4 is a very nice car and has the whole high HP touring car thing going on. But speed thrills give me a ton of HP, ton of torque, a Supercharger, and most important of all RWD. If it's easy to make it go striaght from a stand still.... it doesn't feel that fast.

RS4, the mustang just doesn't look or feel as fast in it's latest version, and I think that the RS4 is classier and still fast.

i think you guys are crazy to pick a cobra over a RS4. one they both make around the same power, but the mustang interior is pure shit. the plastics are like cheaper then the ones found in fisher price toys. when i flick it with my finger, it makes this cheap hollow sound. the window buttons break and crack. the center a/c controls are garbage and outdated. the seats suck ass, the shifter is not the best one around, and the pedal position is no good. you sit high up rather then low down. i really really really hate the mustang interior. i mean its freaking ridicously cheap. i mean even an old 87 nissan stanza's interior was made of better material. and the proof is that most of them the interior are still in one piece when most 00 mustang's i see the interior is already falling apart. i'm sorry, the cobra might be alittle quicker, but that interior really turns me off. plus the audi has got AWD which is what i need right now because we just got hit with 2 blizzards in nyc. plus it resales for more, and its alot more practical.

with rs4 you get straight line, great cornering and brakes, and very high quality.

with svt you get straight line, but then again the rs4 is more then twice the money of svt.

How does the RS4 compare in handling to the Cobra? Objective statistics please.

RS4 w/a chip and intake could give your SVT a run for its historical past...lol

Spend even less money and get an underdrive pully for the Cobra, which adds 75+ hp

Spend even less money and get an underdrive pully for the Cobra, which adds 75+ hp

The chip for the S4 TT...which is the same motor the RS4 has but it has LARGER twin turbos and more goodies...adds 70HP alone!!! (250->320 HP crank)

Let me say that again...because it bears repeating...

CHIP = 70HP

Let that simmer in your brain for a minute...

:naughty:

i think you guys are crazy to pick a cobra over a RS4. one they both make around the same power, but the mustang interior is pure shit. the plastics are like cheaper then the ones found in fisher price toys. when i flick it with my finger, it makes this cheap hollow sound. the window buttons break and crack. the center a/c controls are garbage and outdated. the seats suck ass, the shifter is not the best one around, and the pedal position is no good. you sit high up rather then low down. i really really really hate the mustang interior. i mean its freaking ridicously cheap. i mean even an old 87 nissan stanza's interior was made of better material. and the proof is that most of them the interior are still in one piece when most 00 mustang's i see the interior is already falling apart. i'm sorry, the cobra might be alittle quicker, but that interior really turns me off. plus the audi has got AWD which is what i need right now because we just got hit with 2 blizzards in nyc. plus it resales for more, and its alot more practical.
Add to that the horror I saw as I came across at BRAND NEW (In 2001) RHD Cobra with the door tims loose and the Airbag trim almost on the floor.


And the LHD----->RHD conversion is no excuse, many Chevy's and Dodges survive conversions unaffected, when they are done by local garages (Or so to speak). The Mustang was converted by FPV in thier factory.

let's see.
a 4 door (another one ;) )
that outhandles the cobra.

i'll take the rs4. better handling stock, better handling modded.
more power, more potential.
nicer overall car.

ever driven an s4?
far better than a cobra already, and almost as fast...
get the rs4, which is even better, and handles even better...
is this really a question?

The RS4 is a much better every day car than the Cobra, but for the price difference (huge) I couldn't imagine taking the RS4 over the Cobra.

Don't get me wrong, the RS4 is very, very nice. But, even as nice as it is I think it is a bit overpriced. And, as far as the "modding" thing goes.....c'mon. If you like the Audi better I totally understand, but the Audi is already twice as much as the Cobra before you mod it.....and the Cobra is no doubt the cheapest car to mod to insane hp levels currently made.

I think the real difference is wether or not you want a very powerful American hot rod with amazing bang for the buck, or an autobahn rocket with excellent power and luxury, not to mention the "to be expected" price tag.

The current Cobra is on it's way out however, and I will be interested to see the rematch between the nest Cobra and the Europeans like the RS4 given the new Mustangs improved chassis, interior, and greater hp. Maybe Lexus will finally drop a tweaked 4.3L V-8 in the IS series and Infiniti will have their new Skyline by then as well? Perhaps even a LS2 powered GTO to round out the pot? The more the merrier.

http://members.ij.net/gg/rs4vsm3_2.mpeg

alot of people will agree that the m3 is better than the cobra...
that's an rs4 eating an m3 for lunch...

http://members.ij.net/gg/rs4vsm3_2.mpeg

alot of people will agree that the m3 is better than the cobra...
that's an rs4 eating an m3 for lunch...

"Better" and "faster" are two different things. Faster is not an opinion and generally just relies on cold numbers to judge (it does however vary depending on what form of "racing" you employ) Better is a matter of opinion, and can be measured money considered or not.

As far as the faster argument goes, I wouldn't hold my breath looking for any M3's to outrun an 03 or 04 SVT Cobra in sheer acceration unless it is because the M3 driver is much better than the guy piloting the Cobra. An M3 will not accelerate with a Cobra all things being equal....it isn't even close. An RS4 wont out accelerate a Cobra for that matter.

Both the Audi and the BMW would take the Cobra on the vast majority of road courses. I would assume that is a given. But "faster" takes all different forms.

ok...
i didn't say overall better (like you've mentioned)

handling and acceleration on the rs4 are up there...

anyone have 1/4 times to compare the two?
the cobra is 13.1 ish. what's an rs4?



(one more thing.....)
someone said that the cobra has a race bred heritage.
what do you think the rs4 and s4 have?

what cars, with their revolutionary quattro awd systems, ruled rally racing, and most forms of touring car racing?

the audi quattro equipped cars. the s and rs lines.

race background. completely.

well... i found my own answers.

from evo magazine, here's some times:

----------------M3-----------RS4----------911
0-30---------2.1------------1.6-----------1.6
0-60---------5.1------------4.8-----------4.8
0-80---------8.1------------8.0-----------7.9
0-100------12.3----------12.1----------12.1
0-110------14.8----------14.6----------14.8
0-120------17.7----------17.4----------17.7
0-130------21.3----------22.5----------21.7
0-140------26.1----------27.5----------26.1
1/4 mi.----13.7/105---13.3/105---13.4/104

so the rs4 is right on the cobra's tale...

i guess we'd have to take it to a top speed run...
or just run them on a road course, where the rs4 would eat the cobra...

13.1'sh is a little pig'ish for the 03-04 Cobra. Even mainsteam auto mags have coaxed the car into the twelves. In the hands of a good driver the Cobra is a solid mid 12-second car. The RS4 offers it's driver easier access to it's best acceleration numbers due to it's awd. But, it doesn't offer near the acceleration to those who can drive well.

Also, notice the acceleration numbers to 140. The Cobra cuts off your fun early due to the Mustangs sub-par aerodynamics(140-150 if I recall), but, while a Cobra will pretty handily beat an M3 or RS4 in the 1/4, it destroys them from say 60-130. On the interstate, a Cobra is going to embarass a M3 and decimate a RS4 until you get well into illegal territory.

And, how many people are really going to push it past 140mph? When you take into consideration that in reality the SVT powered pony delivers over 400lb-ft of torque at the crank, under-rating be damned, it should outrun them in that kind of match-up. No shame there

I said before that both German cars have better handling overall, but lets not get ridiculous with the acceleration thing here. As far as top speed goes for the RS4, I can't tell you what it is but as long as it isn't limited like the Cobra's I am sure it is higher than the Mustangs. So yes, the RS4 pilot will ultimately pass the Cobra, when the Cobra hits it's rev limiter.

RS4 all the way...screw the Cobra due to the fact that it's not living up to its true potential and that a wagon could possible beat it down if not in the hands of a capable driver

13.1'sh is a little pig'ish for the 03-04 Cobra. Even mainsteam auto mags have coaxed the car into the twelves. In the hands of a good driver the Cobra is a solid mid 12-second car. The RS4 offers it's driver easier access to it's best acceleration numbers due to it's awd. But, it doesn't offer near the acceleration to those who can drive well.

Also, notice the acceleration numbers to 140. The Cobra cuts off your fun early due to the Mustangs sub-par aerodynamics(140-150 if I recall), but, while a Cobra will pretty handily beat an M3 or RS4 in the 1/4, it destroys them from say 60-130. On the interstate, a Cobra is going to embarass a M3 and decimate a RS4 until you get well into illegal territory.

And, how many people are really going to push it past 140mph? When you take into consideration that in reality the SVT powered pony delivers over 400lb-ft of torque at the crank, under-rating be damned, it should outrun them in that kind of match-up. No shame there

I said before that both German cars have better handling overall, but lets not get ridiculous with the acceleration thing here. As far as top speed goes for the RS4, I can't tell you what it is but as long as it isn't limited like the Cobra's I am sure it is higher than the Mustangs. So yes, the RS4 pilot will ultimately pass the Cobra, when the Cobra hits it's rev limiter.
The RS4 is electronically limited to 155mph, German gentlemans agreemetn, though Porsche managed to weasel out of it, somehow.

So uummmm....Yeah :)

Perhaps even a LS2 powered GTO to round out the pot? The more the merrier.

Call it picky, but if memory serves me right the GTO is equipped with the LS1? Like I said picky.

I'll have to agree with the Cobra out accelerating the Audi if not fact.

Still and RS4 would be the choosen one given myself the option. A 13.3 quarter is well fast enough for my everyday priorities.

WEll, yes it does have an LS1, but I have little doubt Holden will put an LS2 in the Monaro once the engine comes out.

like kurtdg19 said, 13.3 quarter mile will do for me. and then its always fun to throw corners into the mix. so i would have to go with the rs4. plus, the rs4 looks much much better than the cobra.

the cobra handles like a pig... the rs4 is quicker through the twistys, as quick in the straightaways, has inifinitely more potential (pick up the february issue of european car), and does all that with a v6 as opposed to a v8. sick.

Ok, no way no how the RS4 has the same potential as an 03/04 Cobra. Get that out of your heads people. Chip, exhaust, intake and pulley regularly acheive 450rwhp+. Maybe you people don't understand what the means. That means this car is in the 11's with bolt ons and less than 3K involved. You want to get big power? Get a bigger blower and cross the 600rwhp mark EASILY. People have gone 9's on stock bottom end. Nuff said really.

so you can't get into the 11's with an rs4?
with 2 turbos, you get your chip intake exhaust, and you can be right there with the cobra.

get bigger turbos, and you're doing the same, crossing the 600 mark EASILY. and that's to FOUR wheels, not 2...
hmm...

a car with 2 turbos doesn't have the same potential as a car with a supercharger?

riiiiight...

[QUOTE=Kurtdg19]Call it picky, but if memory serves me right the GTO is equipped with the LS1? Like I said picky. END QOUTE


The GTO does come with the LS1.... for now. For 2005 (possibly 2006) the GTO will supposedly offer a model with the LS2. And, while that estimate may be a little optimistic in it's timing, I think there is little doubt the car will end up with it eventually as several sources have reported that GM has told them this is coming...the real question is when.

Considering that I was basing my rematch on the arrival of the next Mustang Cobra, 2006MY at the earliest, I think it is a safe bet that a LS2 powered Goat will likely be around by then.

I like the Svt just for all around power.

I like the Svt just for all around power.

All around power? What the hell does that mean? Like the RS4 doesnt have power down low, mid and high? Jeez...

SVT can pretty much just go in a straight line...while the RS4 can do that and much more...

the cobra handles like a pig... the rs4 is quicker through the twistys, as quick in the straightaways, has inifinitely more potential (pick up the february issue of european car), and does all that with a v6 as opposed to a v8. sick.


Infinitely more potential...... please someone put up a link to an RS4 with 600+hp or one in the 9's with the stock bottom-end.

so you can't get into the 11's with an rs4?
with 2 turbos, you get your chip intake exhaust, and you can be right there with the cobra.

get bigger turbos, and you're doing the same, crossing the 600 mark EASILY. and that's to FOUR wheels, not 2...
hmm...

a car with 2 turbos doesn't have the same potential as a car with a supercharger?

riiiiight...

"600 mark EASILY"? Links please...

I've heard of the S4 2.7 V6 being able to reach 450-500bhp....with some work. Never easily. And 600bhp would a mark reached by only a select few cars in the entire world.

So I just strolled over to SVT Performance, clicked the first thread and then copied and pasted the first three signatures with dyno numbers that I saw.

http://svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77725

1st: (03 Cobra)
459rwhp 477rwtq
Steeda Tri-ax
Full Bassani xhaust
C&L
diablo predator
2.93 interchangeable
billet flow idlers
74.5" gates

2nd:
2003 Torch Red Mustang Cobra Vert-
*AFS Chrome 18x9 & 18x10.5 wheels*Steeda front springs*H&R rear springs*Kenny Brown strut tower brace*MM full length sub frames*DSS halfshafts*EBC brake pads*Amazon CAI*Apten Ported blower*2.76 upper*Billet Flow idilers*Gates Belt*Nitrous dry kit (30shot)*Apten dyno tuned*NGK .040*Redline watter wetter*Magnaflow catted X pipe*Spintech catback*UPR tripple hook quadrant/firewall adjuster*Pro 5.0 shifter*MGW handle*Chrome Cobra MGW knob*Autometer dash bezel with phantom a/f and boost guages*Raptor shift light*White SVT Mustang Cobra windshield banner*Chrome COBRA rear bumper inserts*Grille snake*
474hp 496tq SAE no N20
11.74 @ 117.51 with a 1.74 60' before the ported blower, nitrous and tune



3rd:
03 Cobra:
KB Supercharger @ 19psi
55# Injectors
Diablo Chip w/custom tune
Amazon CAI
BBK Long Tubes
Magna Flow X-pipe
Magna Flow Cat-Back
Before Blower,Chip,X-pipe,and long tubes 385RWHP/371RWTQ
w/KB 639RWHP/576RWTQ w/3.50 upper

I've heard of the S4 2.7 V6 being able to reach 450-500bhp....with some work. Never easily. And 600bhp would a mark reached by only a select few cars in the entire world.

stage 3, stock internals, 412whp for the s4...
http://goapr.com/Audi/products/stage3_27tko4.html

www.goapr.com is one of the best tuners, and there was an article not that long ago about a 500+hp s4 they had...
so it's easily feasible.

so if you want the all around better to drive on more than one road style car, get the rs4.
your 500+hp cobra is going to handle like a pig, b/c you're going to put a drag suspension on it.

get them both on a road course, with proper suspension setups, and you're going to be close. that's it though...

you can make the 03 Cobra run 10's on stock supercharger and stock internals and I bet for a lot less than the Audi. Don't get me wrong, I would love to own an RS4, but I think the 03 Cobra is a better and faster car in this case.

better and faster, meaning?
straight line?
b/c that's not what the audi's made for.
it's made to driven, not drag raced.
and it's hella stable in the top end...

stage 3, stock internals, 412whp for the s4...
http://goapr.com/Audi/products/stage3_27tko4.html

www.goapr.com is one of the best tuners, and there was an article not that long ago about a 500+hp s4 they had...
so it's easily feasible.

so if you want the all around better to drive on more than one road style car, get the rs4.
your 500+hp cobra is going to handle like a pig, b/c you're going to put a drag suspension on it.

get them both on a road course, with proper suspension setups, and you're going to be close. that's it though...


Does 500+ mean 600+? Maybe you don't understand. 600rwhp with an unopened engine is what the Cobra can do. I actually think it's gone to 800rwhp, but I don't have the info right now.

i'm well aware of what the cobra can do.
i read the article on that kenne-bell s/c install, and i'm hella impressed.
with stock cats (nothing after them) and stock motor with the kb s/c, it made something like 620whp.

maybe in don't understand...
if an audi can make 500+AWD whp out of a motor that's half the size, and stock, why is it difficult to think that you could make more?

without digging into the internet and euro tuners, i'm sure there are higher hp cars from companies like MTM.

the point (which i don't think you're getting) is that overall, between the 2 cars, especially stock, the rs4 is going to handle better, and it's going to be better over the long run, being only 2/10 slower in the 1/4.

i saw the info on the 800hp cobra as well, but i'm pretty sure the internals were modded.

but honestly, who cares what you can make on stock internals?

can you take that 800hp car through the twisties? not really.
was it built for it? not really...

i'd rather have a car that i can DRIVE, not just drag race.

you know i keep on hearing some you guys referring to the RS4 as a S4. which i find odd. i hope that you guys don't think that they are the same thing. becusae the RS4 will destroy a S4.

yeah, straight line drags are fun and all, but after while, i would want more. plus after a while the rs4 will beat the cobra in a drag because the cobra will break down before the rs4, hahaha.

Hmmm, where is the info that the RS4 handles better than the Cobra? Do we have any stats on it?

There is no info that any car handles better than anything, handling is even more subjective than a cars styling, but like I said, I'd prefer the grip that Quattro an give me, thanks.

Understeer too? :)

Quattro has absolutely minimal understeer, in fact you'd be a pretty awful driver if you did understeer a Quattro-driven Audi, Quattro has been over 20 years in the making, remember.

Understeer too? :)


if you are refering to AWD cars having a tendency to understeer compared to RWD car i tend to disagree

while it is true the AWD setup will put more load on the front tires due to the power being transmited to them, the general cornering characteristics of a car are much more determined by their suspension setup than by drivetrain

i'm not sure if this holds true for all audi quattro systems. but for the TT, the car is setup to run FWD until it detects slip, then it sends power to rear. which is kinda backwards if you ask me. i mean why would you want a car that dominately handles like a FWD?

I would agree that the AWD benefits of the RS4 will hold true through its handling abilities. Although the AWDs neutral steer benefits are more favorable during a cars entering and mid corner phase of the turn, it doesn't compare to the correctability of the RWD power oversteer in the exit phase.

I would have more fun driving a Cobra than the RS4. The feeling of myself controlling the car is much more satisfying than the car controling itself.

The Cobra (IMO) would undoublty out accelerate the RS4, thats where the Cobra's design is greater than the RS4. Can the RS4 outmaster the Cobra on a track? Thats more arguable than the acceleration test if you ask me. So in this sense, which car would be better overall in these two examples?

On a side note:

An RS4s recommended fuel type is 98 RON. Pretty high octane rating if you ask me. Thats an equivalent of about a 97ish octane rating in the states (R+M/2) which you cannot find at a normal gas station. A Cobra is recommended to run 91 R+M/2, which is equivalent to 92ish RON. The highest R+M/2 rating I've seen in the states was a 94 rating, and I haven't even seen a handful of those. 93 is usually the highest rating you can find in the states unless your buying fuel for racing purposes. Thats definatley an advantage to Euro spec cars, and a disadvantage to any US spec car being compared. Why can't US get some good gas on the streets? Damn conservatives....hehe. Uncle sam not only takes our money....he gives us shitty gas. :disappoin:

Damn conservatives? Surely you mean liberals...

The TT had to have some serious redesigns in 1999 after multiple cars oversteered before flipping over, I think that was the rationale behind the TT's FWD bias.

Damn conservatives? Surely you mean liberals...

I guess I shouldn't of worded it politically, but yes, by that means.....damn liberals. I was aiming for more of a definitive approach of the word conservative.

I would agree that the AWD benefits of the RS4 will hold true through its handling abilities. Although the AWDs neutral steer benefits are more favorable during a cars entering and mid corner phase of the turn, it doesn't compare to the correctability of the RWD power oversteer in the exit phase.

True.

I dont know if anyone saw a swerve test on Top Gear (a good 4-5 years ago). The cars were:
BMW 3-series - RWD
Audi A4 Quattro - AWD
Volvo something or other - FWD

Basically, three similarly sized and powered cars are driven around a bend but swerve halfway through to avoid hitting something in the middle of the road.
The Volvo swerves around the object and ploughs straight on when it tries to turn back into its lane, as does the Audi. The BMW swerves around the object, oversteers, the driver corrects it and drives on. Neutrino is right in that suspension set-up has a lot to do with how a car handles. But the fundamental handling characteristics of a car with a type of drivetrain are very difficult to change.

True.

I dont know if anyone saw a swerve test on Top Gear (a good 4-5 years ago). The cars were:
BMW 3-series - RWD
Audi A4 Quattro - AWD
Volvo something or other - FWD

Basically, three similarly sized and powered cars are driven around a bend but swerve halfway through to avoid hitting something in the middle of the road.
The Volvo swerves around the object and ploughs straight on when it tries to turn back into its lane, as does the Audi. The BMW swerves around the object, oversteers, the driver corrects it and drives on. Neutrino is right in that suspension set-up has a lot to do with how a car handles. But the fundamental handling characteristics of a car with a type of drivetrain are very difficult to change.


Yes i've seen that video but i think was a 5th gear one since i belive it had Tiff Needlle and the blond chick (I forgot her name). Oh and the FWD car was an Alfa Romeo.

She drove the cars in a circle and did a small slalom. The circle was expected to cause oversteer in the BMW and understeer in the Audi and Alfa.

However the slalon seem to have been artificially exagerated. The Alfa barelly changed direction and just plowed into the obstacle. In my experience the FF cars do quite good in slaloms often beating RWD cars - I know i have no problem during AutoX slaloms - The true heavy understeer in FF cars IMO comes in corners >90 degrees

Yes i've seen that video but i think was a 5th gear one since i belive it had Tiff Needlle and the blond chick (I forgot her name). Oh and the FWD car was an Alfa Romeo.

Volvo... Alfa Romeo.. you can see how i got the two mixed up :iceslolan






Jimmy's gonna kill me :uhoh:

Volvo... Alfa Romeo.. you can see how i got the two mixed up :iceslolan


Jimmy's gonna kill me :uhoh:



Sweden....Italy. Basically the same country



;)







Now Jimmy will ban both of us:uhoh:

you know i keep on hearing some you guys referring to the RS4 as a S4. which i find odd. i hope that you guys don't think that they are the same thing. becusae the RS4 will destroy a S4.
my references to the s4 are simply stating the hp that can make, realizing that the rs4 makes 130 more hp STOCK...

one more to think about...
the s4's in the Speed World Challenge (GT series) that dominated for a couple years, had rs4 IC and turbo upgrades.

and they destroyed a ton of cars in that series.

Damn right I am! Alfas aren't nearly as reliable as Volvo's :uhoh:




I would probably had killed you if I wasn't in a holding pattern as far as buying track-cars go :D



Nuetrino, it'd be Top Gear, it WAS 4 or 5 years ago, back when Tiff and Vicki were hosts of Top Gear ;)