Enzo vs. F1

Who do you guys think would win, the Enzo or McLaren F1 (not Lm or GTR). To me, they seem a good match...

From what I've heard from a person that owns both cars the F1 is more impressive.

William

Was this person Frank Selldorf? If so I probably should have checked back at this thread before asking him.

No it wasn't Frank Selldorf.

i think it would be the enzo. motor trend says that the enzo will beat the f1 by half a second in the quarter mile and .1 sec on the 0-60 sprint. it is also 1.1 seconds faster to 100 than the mclaren. the only thing i see is the f1 has it on top speed

Ok take a F1 LM and the Enzo, Enzo loses, but i would take.......ummmmmm...which one....ahhhhhhhhh

:crazy:

I'm not bringing in statistics i was simply stating what i've heard from an owner of both cars. Enzo has better stats on a few things but he claims the F1 feels faster and is more fun to drive.

William

Well, heard back from Frank Selldorf (a bona fide LM owner) and he says that some of his associates have tested the Enzo but still think the McLaren is faster. And Ferrari adidas, yeah, the Enzo has better straightline (I should have said this in the beginning) but what I meant was on a track like Nurburgring. There the cornering capabilities come into play and I don't know that the Enzo would still win. Here's what we should do. Put Tiff Needell in the F1 and Dario in the Enzo and send them around Nurburgring five times apiece and see who's fastest. And then five years from now, put Tiff in the LM and Dario in the 6000GT (assuming it ever gets produced) and send them back to Germany...

Also, COMPLETELY off topic, but 89turbo, how much does a 95 300zx cost?

i might be being biased a little bit, but the enzo would be faster than the base f1. and the thread starter even stated to take the enzo against the base f1, so the winner would be the enzo. to get cornering statistics:

enzo-->slalom-73 mph skidpad-->1.05g
f1-->slalom-64.5 mph skidpad-->.86g

so by those numbers, the enzo would be THEORETICALLY faster on the track being it has faster acceleration and cornering abilities.

*EDIT* a z32 n/a would probably cost about 6,000-10,000 for a good one and a z32 tt would probably cost about 10,000-15,000 for a good one.

Well see that's the thing, it's too theoretical. I mean, theoretically the enzo would out pace the c-gt but apparently did not at Nurburgring. And the .86 g for the McLaren, I somehow don't trust the fundemental importance fo that figure. The topics been brought up before at the McLaren section, and there has been refuted as meaningless for several reasons that I cannot remember. :banghead:

So, I guess that this thread in the end is pointless (sorry) considering that all we can do is muse, unless someone out there has tested both around the same track (an interesting subject to research maybe...). Otherwise, yeah, it is pretty meaningless to guess. Oh well, maybe if we all got together, robbed some banks and bought both...

found it, here's the explanation by Peloton25 (someone who has a lot of knowledge on the F1):

"It doesn't have a rear sway bar - of course it won't do well on a skidpad. Who the hell cares though??

Skidpad ratings have very little merit on how a car will handle in the real world. You're talking about a 600+ hp car circling what is most likely a 300ft diameter circle for a couple of laps to establish this rating. Where will you ever do that in real life? The closest thing to that would be a cloverleaf on ramp - and I guarantee if we strapped you in to the F1 and took you around one of those you'd probably wet your panties.

Quick note - During development of the F1, lead test driver Jonathan Palmer told Gordon Murray he thought the F1 needed a rear sway bar. Gordon disagreed, stating that it would make the F1 twitchy at high speeds. Gordon fitted one anyway, and after just a few laps in the car Palmer came back in and stated the car was nearly undrivable at the limit. Hence the lack of rear bar.

The F1 is designed to understeer at the limit as most cars do. This allows the drive to induce oversteer with a quick stab of the throttle. A good dirver can control it well - and the F1 is a car that fully rewards good drivers.

You would rather have a Hennessey Viper, huh? Obviously you spend to much time reading the bogus reviews of that car in Motor Trend and probably didn't catch the real world story of what a crook John Hennessey has been.

Hennessey's Vipers are fast, but lawsuits say he serves them up too slowly.

Yeah - I'd much rather throw my money at John Hennessey. Give us a break - and take your flame baiting somewhere else."

I'd take a Mclaren F1 LM anyday over an Enzo...just as good in real world terms but looks 10x better

Yeah, no doubt I would take the Mac even though I really like the concept of F1 paddle shifting for the track.

Enzo would destroy the F1 on the track. Straight line speed benefits the F1 certainly though.

i hope you only mean in top speed straight line would the f1 beat the enzo. because in acceleration, then enzo would beat the f1.

you guys are comparing the u.s spec mclaren to the enzo. why not compare the european spec? i'm not sure of the exact rating, but it is considerably faster then the u.s. spec. also sure the enzo can outgun the F1 to 100. but after that the f1 will catch up, and past it easily by 170mph. the enzo is designed for maximum downforce, which as we all know causes lots of drag and it kills highend speed, where the F1 is much lighter and only makes slightly less power then the F1 and is alot more sleeker. of course the enzo would beat the F1 in the corners, but the F1 would beat it in the straights. i'll link you a fare comparison from site that is not biased at all,

and don't forget to look at the mclaren SLR. from the way mark wan described it, it seems to have disgraced the mclaren name.

http://autozine.kyul.net/html/Ferrari2.htm#Enzo

here is the quote for those who are too lazy to click

The wait is over. Ferrari Enzo is finally tested in a fair condition by a third party. In the July 2003 issue of R&T, the magazine borrowed an Enzo from owner Richard Losee, travelling for 1000 miles to the Bonneville Salt Flats of Utah to see its real-world performance and then back to California for performance recording in a proving ground. In the end, they recorded the following figures:

0-60 mph: 3.3 sec
0-100 mph: 6.6 sec
1/4 mile: 11.1 sec @ 133.0mph

Base on these figures, R&T declared that the Enzo is faster than McLaren F1 ! it said the F1 they tested a few years ago did 0-60 in 3.4 sec and 1/4 mile in 11.6 sec @125mph. However, it did not mention that that particular F1 was not a standard European version, as it was converted by the owner to meet the US regulations. If we take Autocar’s test data for the standard car, you will see the F1 was faster still:

0-60 mph: 3.2 sec
0-100 mph: 6.3 sec
1/4 mile: 11.1 sec @ 138mph

From the time of 0-100mph and the terminal speed of 1/4 mile, you can easily see the higher the speed, the faster the McLaren is compared with Enzo.

That’s not surprising to me. Remember, the Enzo is more than 200 kilograms heavier than the F1. Sophisticated launch control of the 21st century may help it to reduce tyre slippage at launch thus match the F1 for the first quarter mile, but once the F1 get rolling, the rate it accelerate will be much higher than the Ferrari. The point is, at this level of competition, there is no miracle can negate the deficit in power-to-weight ratio, which favours the McLaren overwhelmingly. At higher speed, another scientific parameter - drag coefficient and frontal area - says the Enzo can only lose more. The McLaren can reach 200mph in 28 seconds dead. I would be very surprised if Ferrari Enzo can do that within 30 sec. Believe me.

and about the mclaren SLR. here is the link to that

http://autozine.kyul.net/html/Mercedes6.htm#SLR

im from america so i will compare the enzo to the american spec f1. so thats one reason i say the enzo is the better one. plus, imo, i think the enzo looks a lot better.

For a full comparison, no I would choose the best from both comapnies (again though not going with any GTR or LM). Basically, what we have here is a yes answer. One will win on a very winding course, the other ona more open one. Huh, pick your poison I guess...

I'll pick the Enzo.

the F1 IMO is a paperwork racing car. As specified in that article posted by TATII it compromises wheel base and downforce to acheive its numbers.

So i guess if all you care is going fast in a straight line buy the F1, but if you want to go fast on a track get the Enzo.


True I have yet to see any side by side numbers on a track but IMO the Enzo will simply dominate the F1

i hope you only mean in top speed straight line would the f1 beat the enzo. because in acceleration, then enzo would beat the f1.

I've heard the F1 accelerates from 0-150mph in 12.8 SECONDS. That is mind boggling.

I;m hoping the pro-Enzo's are right. As much as I love the F1, it really is time for a new king

The F1 has been considered THE supercar for a long time now. I like the enzos design much more though and although the Mclaren name is always gonna be linked with speed the ferrari name has looks and who is really gonna care about the small differences in speed and accel. at that money looks and name is the key and comparable stats(as long as they are close)

yes, lamborsari merbini summed it up perfectly, kudos to you.

thanx freakonaleash

Well its about time someone can at least challenge the McLaren. It took several years for the rest of the supercar world to catch up this masterpiece. And from a few articles I have read, the new GT-40 goes tit for tat with the enzo in just about every performance test for about 1/5 of the price. Don't get me wrong, I love the enzo, but as far as setting the bar, no car set as high for its time as the mighty f1

well i wouldn't say a ferrari has a better sounding name then a mclaren. first of all, the mclaren is still the most expensive super car around. it costed 1 million dollars and that was back in the mid 90's when it was introduced. 2, it was just a small company lead by gordon murray that made such a crazy car that no other company such as ferrari could top even in such a long time. i mean how long did it take for ferrari with all its R & D to top the mclaren? i mean it look a freaking long time. the F1 was never designed to be the fastest car in the world. it was just designed to be a true drivers car that is liveable. yet it just happens to turn out that way.

With regards to the new Ford GT, where'd you get that it rivals the enzo. I saw in CD that they said that but something was up. Every other test puts it squarely in competition with the 360 and Gallardo, not the big dogs.

Every other test? The two other tests that have been done with it? It simply depends how the GT shows up to customers as. If it's dyno 570rwhp for customer cars, well then who is going to complain.

Look at what I said: for a 1/5 of the price it is in the enzo's league in 0-60, 1/4 mile, braking and cornering. I don't if it was a ringer, just restating what I read (one of the big three mags). I know who they aimed the gt at, the 360 stradale which it pretty much spanked at the road course and test track. The gallardo would probably be more of a match for it. I love the enzo, but it's not in a league of its own the way the f1 was when first introduced.

Ok, that makes more sense. Yeah, if nothing else, no other company has made such an in-a-league-of-its-own car like the F1. In fact, the only car that I could ever see doing something like that is either a new F1 (I doubt it'll happen but they have something to make up for with the new SLR) or maybe the Ferrari that'll come out in 2047 for the 100th birthday fo the company (If they're still around).

of course mclaren could produce a car like the f1 with such a small team, they only produced that one car. how many cars did ferrari come out with in the time of the f1.....f-360, f-355, f-550, f-575, f-456, c'mon now, lets see mclaren come out with that many beautiful cars.

Yea, that new SLR is going to be a beast! Since I won't realistically be able to own any of the above metioned super cars, I can still dream (those are still free I think!).

Freakonaleash, it's all about quality over quantity. Before the Enzo came out and challenged the F1, I would take the F1 (especially the LM...delicious) over all ferraris produced in the last ten years. I mean, come on, would you want the ULTIMATE ROAD car or the f50 (big dissapointment), 360, 456, 575, etc. I would rather be part of a trully unique heritage. By comparison, ferraris are mass produced and of "lower quality" (when was the last time you saw a ferrari engine bay plated in gold?)

Also, do you really think that SLR is going to be a beast? To me it looks like it's not so hot in the corners (and I'm all about corners).

btw, don't read too much into this post. I love ferraris. If I could have just one car, it would be real close between the mac and the enzo, so don't think I'm a ferrari basher...

Moseler, your dead on about a cars ability to corner. But I think Merc had more of a autobahn, long stretch of the road capability then a corner carver in mind when they put this out. I think that the SLR is more of a souped Gulfstream 5 then f-18 (don't know if that camparsion matches in your eyes, just kinda how envision it.).

Yeah, you're right, and that is a good comparison. In that light, the merc does make sense. It's just that coming from McLaren, the company that specializes in Formula1 and produced the F1, I would have expected somthing more along the lines of a competitor to the old F1, enzo and Zonda

Does anybody have any specs on the Zonda? From the sounds of it, they have to be seriously quick machines.

http://www.fast-autos.net/pagani/paganizondagr.html thats ur zonda specs rite there

but either way the enzo beats the f1 in every aspec except top speed but the f1 was also designed to be daily driven :X an enzo can't be drivin for long periods of time with burning your legs F1 :) your fine ... but facts are facts enzo is a better car for racing track or stairt line but the f1 is a better car and designed for the driver

http://www.fast-autos.net/mclaren/mclarenf1gt.html
Specs on F1^

http://www.fast-autos.net/ferrari/ferrarienzo.html
Specs on enzo ^

Yeah, the Mac was designed to be the ultimate car, happened to be the fastest for a decade (can't remember where I heard it put that way). The Enzo is decided to just be wickedly quick, and quick it is. Short of a LeMans or GT racer, the Enzo is as good as it gets. Zonda isn't bad, but not as quick as the Enzo, and personnaly I don't like the engine sound as much.

talking about engine sound of the enzo, does anybody have any good videos of the enzo. i cant find any.

I would have to go with the F1 cause there cool like that!!

Freakonaleash, they only video I have found is on racingflix.com and at least it has Tiff Needell as the driver. Downside is that it's on racingflix and I would allow for 1-2 hours to download (so many people use the site that the bandwith is eaten up). However, if you have access to fifth gear (i.e. don't live in the U.S) then I would check and see if you could get the vid from another source...

Everyone is stating how Mac is king but hasn't the Koenigsegg been tested unofficially as thte fastest vehicle yet topping the Mac? Sorry maybe I missed something but I was watching Top Gear and they claimed that it was the fastest car they've ever tested. And as for the comparison, I think that simply the class that is associated with a Ferrari makes up for something, but it's true these cars are made for different tasks, the F1 is straight line while Enzo is the track car.

I know this isn't the intent of everyone out there, but it's starting to sound as though the mac can't turn to save its life (obviously not true). True the Enzo has better cornering but the F1 has the inherent advantage of a center driving position (basically negating any body roll and its affect on the driver).

Furthermore, even if the CC8S can out run the F1 at Nardo, Salt Flats or the Autobahn, the number of places that the CC8S wins can be counted on one hand.

My rankig of current super cars: Enzo-F1-Carrera GT-CC8S-Zonda

umm lol the f1 was not designed to be a strait line car .... it can woop on almost all super cars on cornering accel comfort and top speed but since the enzo was designed to beat the mac ... thats wat it does but it still failed in comfort and top speed. both great cars one older and nest of its time one newer and faster.

The Enzo was designed to take the mac on a road course, the CC8S to take it in top speed. Both succeeded, but not in each field. That says something of the mac's design.

Anyway, tough decision, that's why I have both on my signature :iceslolan

I don't think you'll ever get a straight answer until both cars have been tested on the same day. Sure the Enzo may look like it can beat the F1 on paper, but its only on paper. If I recall right when the 350Z and the S2000 were butting heads, the S2000 seemed as if it would be the faster track car on paper, but it turns out that the 350Z was ahead.

My point is that although it may seem that the odds are in favor for one on paper, you don't get paper points for coming in 2nd. No doubt that both the Enzo and the F1 are truly in a league of their own (as the price tag justifies that), but their are other cars fully capable of competing with them for a much smaller tag. I'd have fun watching an 800k+ Mclaren, 600k+ Enzo, and a 40k+ Elise taking the track on the same day and see what happens. Giving its a tight track, my money is on the Elise.

I've got a video of an Elise, F50, 911 on the same track (camera on Elise w/passenger). In 2 laps, the Elise is in front and further widening its lead. I guess you don't need to spend half a mil to get a car in a league of its own...

do you have a link as to where I can get that video?

I actually got it off of Kazaa lite. I can give you the file name if it would help ya. It was listed under a top-gear video (but I honestly cannot tell since its only a 3minute clip of pure tracking). The file name is:

Top Gear - Lotus Elise vs Porsche 911 GT2 vs Ferrari F50

I'll look for it on the net to see if I can find it, until then, this is the best I can do for now.

Its a very fun video to watch the Lotus start from the back and ends up front. I wouldn't of thought it could stay up with them.....its definately a jaw dropper.

Would that be a 993 or 996 GT2?

I'll search the web as well. Unfortunately I have taken Kazaa off my computer after the detremental effects it had on it. Do you know when the viedo was made (probably not if it was just track footage but...)

Its definately not a 993, it has the much more mild 996 spoil rather the crazy 993 one.

And molsor, you did the right thing in getting rid of kazaa (its a piece, as i did to). They have a Kazaa Lite version that has no popups or banners, absolutly nothing to that effect. Its far better than the standard kazaa. It hasn't screwd with my computer ever. Its also very hard to find on the net, what I did was use Kazaa to download it hehe, and then scrap it and use the lite version.

I've searched for a very long time on the net and cannot find this damn video anywhere! Its a 25.5mb file, so if you just happen to see an elise video with around that size, I would go ahead and download it just in case. I also cannot find any time signature anywhere on it so I haven't a clue when it was recorded. Damn I feel like I'm the only one who has this video. Can anybody else back me up on this?

If you can't find it further, let me know and i'll send you the file.

I've checked all the vid sites that I can and Google. Still nothing. If you could send me an e-mail of it that'd be great, I have quicktime although the windows media player works better on my cpu for some reason...

I've checked all the vid sites that I can and Google. Still nothing. If you could send me an e-mail of it that'd be great, I have quicktime although the windows media player works better on my cpu for some reason...

I'll sure do it, where do I find your e-mail?

if you click on the screen name, one of the options that it gives you is to send an e-mail. ALthough I don't know if you can post an attachment. If you can't, just tell me (by personal message) and I'll give you my email address.

Guys, come on. Do this by PM next time