How'd we really get here?

Does anybody here know what's so special about evolution? Creation requires faith in a God who made all things, but it seems like evolution is a faith issue too. But when you say "you need faith to believe in evolution," people get all mad and worked up. Why? I can never get anyone to give me a straight answer of how evolution has been proven. I've heard of some "transition fossils," but most turned out to be hoaxes. Does anyone know of anything solid supporting creation or evolution, or are we left to believe the way we choose? :eek7:

I think we should be left to our own personal prejudices on the whole issue.There's no way that the extremes of opinion on both sides will ever meet in the middle.

I think it is about looking at the facts, and choosing what offers the most reasonable answer. Evolution cannot explain everything, but it explains a whole lot more than creationism, and in a much more believable way. Its' theory is modifiable, and as humans gain knowledge, we can more correctly describe the world. It never made sense to me that 2000 year old beliefs be applied in an entirely different world. Religions generally accept scientific discoveries, it just takes a lot longer, as they tend to be more conservative and skeptical than the scientific communities. It's just a matter of time until evolutionary theory is widely accepted, as soon as it is most correctly understood, that is. I could provide tons of irrefutable evidence (in my mind anyways) for evolution, but you still have to choose for yourself what makes sense.

Here's where things get a little fuzzy. There are a couple different views on how man came to be even in Christianity. There are old earth creationist and new earth creationist. Both believe that God made everything but there are differences in beliefs on how he went about doing it. NECs beleive that man came into the world just as the Bible says he did. He (Adam)was created with no ancestors. OECs believe he evolved into what he is today but it was God who started the process with that in mind. OECs don't believe this contradicts the Bible but is a less literal translation of Genisis.
Generally non Religious people believe totally in evolution. There are a few branches that need filling in on the evolution tree not to mention where it all began (big sticking point) but there seems to be enough evidence out there that supports some sort of evolution took place in man.

You can't prove evolution, just like you can't prove gravity. Why? Because you can't see evolution, just like you can't see gravity. You can only see the effects of both. You throw a ball, it hits the ground. What is gravity? Where does it come from? Do those questions even matter?

I see evolution the same way. I look at myself in the mirror, and I see my family members. I don't see a Chinese person. My Aunt moved to Africa to teach and she married a local (black) man. Their children aren't as dark as their father or as light as their mother. They are a combination of their parents.

So we have established that people generally resemble their parents. If an Asian couple has a black child, the woman has some explaining to do.

Now, who here wants to marry a fat, buck-toothed, mentally-handicapped person? Who wants to marry a Charlize Theron or Brad Pitt? I'm going to hazard a guess that most people would prefer to marry a more attractive person. Where does that leave the ugly retard? Out of the gene-pool. Their traits are not passed down, while the traits of the attractive people are.

So we've established that people will generally marry (and thus procreate with) the best person they can. So the human race improves itself... hmm... there's a word for this... it's on the tip of my tongue.

So I most resemble my family members. Who else do I resemble? Well, being of mostly British decent, I do look a lot like them. Brown hair, green eyes, pale skin, and my bottom teeth are really bad. I certainly resemble the people of my heritage more than I resemble an Asian or African person. So what is it that makes me different? DNA.

The DNA between a parent and child is nearly identical. The DNA between an Asian and African is not quite as close, but is still extremely similar. Who else's DNA is similar. You know it's coming... Chimps!

Now, does any of this matter? Of course not. Whether humans and chimps both branched off from one similar primate a few million years ago is meaningless. So is the idea that we all came from Adam and Eve (and Eve's incestuous relationship with her sons). The only thing that matters is that we're here. Let's all make the best of it. If you'll excuse me, my PS2 awaits!

You can't prove evolution, just like you can't prove gravity. Why? Because you can't see evolution, just like you can't see gravity. You can only see the effects of both. You throw a ball, it hits the ground. What is gravity? Where does it come from? Do those questions even matter?
-Enzohonda

Hmmmm. Try jumping off a building. Maybe you'll believe in this so-called "gravity" concept. :screwy: Let's see, I guess you can say AIDs and all viruses don't exist either, because you can't see them, but can "see" the effects. Will somebody beat this kid? :banghead:


This is my theory on how our pathetic race populated the planet...

The aliens dropped Adam and Eve off on this (then) uninhabited planet after they wouldn't stop with the fart jokes.

Hmmmm. Try jumping off a building. Maybe you'll believe in this so-called "gravity" concept. :screwy: Let's see, I guess you can say AIDs and all viruses don't exist either, because you can't see them, but can "see" the effects. Will somebody beat this kid? :banghead:


:rolleyes: He was describing the problems with theorems.

A theorem is something to be proved, and is thus distinguished from a problem, which is something to be solved.

While proof does exist, you have a lot to learn before spouting off like a moron little one. :disappoin Spend some time reading http://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/HistTopics/General_relativity.html and you'll see that some great minds didn't decide to say gravity exists because "you'll fall if you jump off a building".


Everyone should read http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html Evolution is a Fact and a Theory it is a good piece on some of the issues surrounding evolution.

the way the world start was over some ugly ass apple......NOT

what i think is,,,,,there IS a god, he DOES wathc oevr us, but thats ALL he does it WATCH, he created the BIG BANG or bacteria or whatrever, then he LEFT, he wENT HOME, he CLOSED TH EBOTTLE sand SLAMMED THE DOOR

:Everyone should read http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html Evolution is a Fact and a Theory it is a good piece on some of the issues surrounding evolution.

That article is quite interesting. The first fact that has been pounded into my head in my high school science classes is that science=observation. Without observation, we have no science. Thus, creationists are left hanging on the Bible to support their beliefs. However, I don't ever remember hearing of anyone observing evolution taking place now in ways we believe it to have happened millions of years ago. If you know of any solid evidence of evolution being reproduced in a laboratory or whatever, I'd love to hear it. I'm just having trouble linking the word "fact" to either creation or evolution, seeing nobody was there when it happened and neither can be reproduced today. The way I see this, it's all a matter of personal preference- do you want to believe in God, or not?

the way the world start was over some ugly ass apple......NOT

what i think is,,,,,there IS a god, he DOES wathc oevr us, but thats ALL he does it WATCH, he created the BIG BANG or bacteria or whatrever, then he LEFT, he wENT HOME, he CLOSED TH EBOTTLE sand SLAMMED THE DOOR

wAHt?

wAHt?
lol kmon, i stayed up the whole night :D

lol kmon, i stayed up the whole night :D

You have to stop doing that. It's not healthy.:naughty:

There's only one way we will ever find out. And it will be when it is our time to lay down forever.

There's only one way we will ever find out. And it will be when it is our time to lay down forever.
i dont want to die ever :(

Why? It's just the next step. I don't want to get old.

I'm starting to hope there is a hell so I can see you all there and we can continue this debate after we are dead. It would be interesting..

Uh....okay, just don't bother waiting around for me, though.

Ya, getting old doesn't sound very good, but neither does dieing, especially because I don't know if there is anything after we die. But God wouldnt send me to hell, what did i ever do to him?

Evolution can be observed in many ways in animals and humans. But there are holes in this theory because of the probability of some of the mututatins required for the organisms that exists today.

I think it would be a good idea to run through evolutionary theory quickly here, so that misconceptions are eliminated regarding what evolution is or is not.

Put simply, evolution is the change in genes in a population through generations. It is a random process that is driven by natural selection, basically the idea that the most fit individuals will survive and reproduce with the highest success. An understanding of the role of mutations is very important. Mutations DO NOT directly lead to new organisms. Mutations merely provide genetic variability, in other words every organism has one or two genes that was mutated in the production of the organism. This means that all organisms are unique genetically, and some are better suited than others at doing certain things. For ex., a woodpecker with a longer beak due to a certain mutation may be better able to pull bugs out of a tree than one with a normal length beak.

So when environmental pressures are exerted on a population (like a drought, a newly introduced predator, or a plague) some individuals will be more able to survive the harsh new conditions. Those individuals with better chances of survival will consequently leave more offspring, and their offspring will also have better chances of survival and reproduction. As time goes on, the entire population will begin to reflect this change in genetic makeup, as individuals with the mutated gene will increase in numbers in each subsequent generation. It is important to remember, however, that evolution has no goals, it is an entirely random process; it merely describes individuals leaving more offspring than others because they are better equipped to handle the environmental pressures, and the genetic makeup of the population reflects this.

Evolution on a grand scale is much harder to take in, but we have to remember that the earth is 4.5 - 4.8 billion years old, and the earliest records of life point to around 3.5-3.2 billion years ago. Life likely started in the ocean, and from there, life proliferated and expanded eventually into what we see today. You want solid evidence that all life came from the same place? Well, why do humans have a vestigial tailbone? A real, legitimate tailbone? Why would god have created an absolutely worthless bone in our body? And why do whales have pelvic bones that serve no purpose? And why do snakes have vestigial hind legs that serve no purpose? And why do cats, horses, bats, humans and whales all have the same forelimb bones and structures? Why do chimpanzees share 98% of their genes with humans, and why do their facial expressions parallel our own?

I'm not giving answers, the last paragraph is largely just food for thought. Personally, I find the evidence too strong to ignore.

When did humans get their belly buttons? If we all started from the ocean like fish then why don't humans lay eggs like fish?
I'm not doubting evolution but that bothers me a little.

Evolution on a grand scale is much harder to take in, but we have to remember that the earth is 4.5 - 4.8 billion years old, and the earliest records of life point to around 3.5-3.2 billion years ago. Life likely started in the ocean, and from there, life proliferated and expanded eventually into what we see today. You want solid evidence that all life came from the same place? Well, why do humans have a vestigial tailbone? A real, legitimate tailbone? Why would god have created an absolutely worthless bone in our body? And why do whales have pelvic bones that serve no purpose? And why do snakes have vestigial hind legs that serve no purpose? And why do cats, horses, bats, humans and whales all have the same forelimb bones and structures? Why do chimpanzees share 98% of their genes with humans, and why do their facial expressions parallel our own?

I'm not giving answers, the last paragraph is largely just food for thought. Personally, I find the evidence too strong to ignore.

Hmm, very sharp you are. Thank you for finally providing some of your proofs. Everyone else says they have solid evidence, but nobody gives any. :naughty: The problem I see now is that if ape-like animals evolved into humans over millions, possibly billions of years, then it must have been the transition animals that flourished during that vast time period. Therefore this "ape-man" evolving species must have existed in huge numbers. If this theory is true, we should have more transition fossils buried in the sand than anything else, yet the lack of archaeological evidence is so bad that "scientists" have resorted to creating transition fossils like the Piltdown man and the Nebraska man and others whose names escape me. The theory seems to fit together quite nicely except that we don't have any fossils of humans with half-tails or whales on land or snakes with legs. :mad:

Or fish with belly buttons. Don't forget about them.:smile:

[QUOTE=YogsVR4]:rolleyes: He was describing the problems with theorems.



While proof does exist, you have a lot to learn before spouting off like a moron little one. :disappoin Spend some time reading [url="http://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/HistTopics/General_relativity.html";]

sorry, calling people "little one" is just as stupid. Unless your 50-74 years old, that's extremly lame, "yoda". The fact that gravity is a theroum just proves that there are some lazy ass scientists out there that need to hit the books and make it fact.



PEACE

Hmm, very sharp you are. Thank you for finally providing some of your proofs. Everyone else says they have solid evidence, but nobody gives any. :naughty: The problem I see now is that if ape-like animals evolved into humans over millions, possibly billions of years, then it must have been the transition animals that flourished during that vast time period. Therefore this "ape-man" evolving species must have existed in huge numbers. If this theory is true, we should have more transition fossils buried in the sand than anything else, yet the lack of archaeological evidence is so bad that "scientists" have resorted to creating transition fossils like the Piltdown man and the Nebraska man and others whose names escape me. The theory seems to fit together quite nicely except that we don't have any fossils of humans with half-tails or whales on land or snakes with legs. :mad:

The arrival of mammals was only about 200 million years ago, which isn't really that long in the scope of things. There are, in fact, very many fossils that have mostly been discovered in the past 10-20 years of the hominids (the "man-apes" you speak of). There aren't really any human fossils with tails, that feature simply hasn't been weeded out by selection because it doesn't confer a selective disadvantage. We basically carry around a reminder of where we came from, and since it does us no harm, it remains intact.

When did humans get their belly buttons? If we all started from the ocean like fish then why don't humans lay eggs like fish?

This is a little more complex, so bear with me. As this fish moved to fresh water, they began to develop lungs, which was further enhanced and aided by the development of appendages that allowed them to finally move about on land. These creatues would become amphibians. Still more efficient lungs developed, along with waterproof eggshells and skin in what would be the reptiles, who were able to move further onto dry land. Next, endothermy evolved, which is warm bloodedness, and finally larger brain size was required for creatures to live in 3D habitat, like in trees and mountainside, etc.

After the dinosaur extinction in the late mesozoic period, around 70 million years ago, the stage was set for mammals to take over. As a direct result of the staggering drop in biodiversity on the planet b/c of the mass extinction, the mammals were able to proliferate and adaptively radiate out and fill many of the available ecological roles that were left empty after the dinosaurs. And as a large and complex organ such as the brain requires a longer, more intense period of growth, it was more advantegeous for mammals that had longer, slower growth periods to internally nourish their young. So, relating specifically to humans, our belly button is simply our mechanism for getting nutrients from our mother most efficiently. Whew, that was long.

BTW, this is a greatly simplified version of the actual occurences, these processes take million years and require, in most instances, hundreds and even thousands of generation to go from one distinct morphological characteristic to the next. Evolution takes time.