The Fast and Irritating

I just want to see what people out there take to the whole 'street racing' thing. All these fast and furious kids out there tend to ruin things for everyone. And if your smart, you know what i mean when i say fast and furious...so dont jump to conclusions...I became interested in cars not too long ago. Outside my senior year in high school...at that time I didnt know a civic from an NSX...But now things are different...Back in the day, people would race their muscle cars or hotrods...now we have kids who want to take their Hyundai Accents and Honda's and do all these modifications to them, ultimately wasting time and money to wreck them later on down the road because they think they are 'street racers'. I honestly think there are very few people who understand the whole racing concept and the ones who are out there street racing dont know anything more than what a movie can tell them....

.....oh, and im not a street racer, nor have I ever wanted to be one. I just like cars, rare ones as a matter of fact....

...and if this makes you feel angry or whatever, thats why I put it up...so respond...later

Dude if you think street racing and the import scene merged with that movie your just as retarted as the movie it self.

Ok...now to be a bit more civil. There are many resons why people street race somtimes they just dont have tracks near them, some people get a rush from the thought of getting caught, and for some street racing is just....easy as in doesnt take much to do. It's like cheating some people are tempted when some chick is willing...and it's all easy to do...anyway...I guess you get the point there. I'm not a street racer in the since that I do it all the time...have I done it..yeah...is it safe no...

"they think they are 'street racers'. I honestly think there are very few people who understand the whole racing concept and the ones who are out there street racing dont know anything more than what a movie can tell them...."

If they race on the street they are indeed street racers and I'm pretty sure they get the concept ...make your car fast...drive good....and beat the other guy. Now maby your confusing ricers and racers, ricers have no idea what the fuck there doing calling there 19' rims a preformance part and shit like that. Maby your just confused.

No, i know what im saying. Ricers, racers...your almost getting it...that what im tryin to say...who cares about what word you use to associate these kids with...but im not quite so sure you know what im talking about...It really doesnt relate to where they do it...its all the crap they bring with them...they do things that are just pointless...they waste their time doing things to their cars when they should just wait until they actually have a decent car that will work...It could be different depending on the area you live in...Im in Northeast Ohio and im surrounded by these KIDS...and i emphasize the word kids...who have piles of junk...making it an eyesore to drive...ive even seen a kid with a Daewoo with a wing on it that you would find on a Le Mans car...and yeah you could say ricer...whatev...im trying to explain this as simple as possible so you can understand...Everyone races/speeds on the roads...its human nature to be competetive at times and to seek a rush...and if they live in an area that doesnt have a track or drag strip near them...then they must live in an area where theres not many people...or they just dont know that theres a place near them...but getting back on track...it doesnt matter where they do it..its just the fact that they do it because they think its cool to take a POS and put a sticker on it, then proceed to act like the actors in a movie and try to do what they do...i.e. Fast and Furious...if you dont understand...ill try to explain it again...i have infinite patience with this...

You dont understand the true essance of tunning a car. Way back in the day hotroding/street roding whatever in it's truest essance is taking what you have and trying to make it faster, stronger, better. What you take is just a matter of personal preferance...thou sure somtimes someone just shouldnt try on ...some cars, I notice your getting back to talking about ricers twoards the end there...it seems you seriouly confuse the street racing thing with the ricer thing...hrmm visit here and maby you'd be enlighted a bit www.Jaxstreetscene.com look around a bit, theres street racing for you..somewhat organized.

all the cars that were tuned back then were muscle cars. camaros, mustangs (v8's), firebirds, Goats, Chevelles, Hemi's...ya see the pattern? back then was different...i know the whole ricer terminology and im not confused...i think maybe u have to understand that ricers want to be street racers and try to be...i think u can agree with me on that...and if you do, thats what i was tryin to tell you...and i think u got it when u said some people just shouldnt try with some cars...

Ha ha no man people tried to hook up anything back then man it wasnt all mustangs, and camaros, and firebirds if they had it and they liked cars they tuned that bitch. Ricers are street racers if they race...there retarted street racers yes..but they race on the street never the less. They may not be what normal peopel classify as street racers hense the term ricers came into play but anyone who races on the street can call them self a street racer...now actually being in the real shit...well thats different.

Street racers are ricers, eh? From the way you two talk about it, it sounds like neither of you participate in this. Well I do. And I drive a Corvette, and I am still a "ricer?"

If you don't like the way someones car looks, then it doesn't affect them. They don't care. Just because it looks "ricey" to you doesn't mean they should change it, it just means that the people who posess true style and form look that much better.


In Northern Ohio, the street racing scene may be composed of 16 year olds with Daewoos, but that is not the way it goes everywhere, I assure you. Here in Southern California, people are very serious indeed. And most of them are over the age of 21. Sure, you will catch the occasional young kid, but of course that's the way it is. Most people at the races that I attend have something called "mutual respect." If you do huge burnouts in the middle of the strip, people get pissed. If you drive like a moron, people get pissed. If you endanger others (more in a careless fashion), people get pissed. We race on closed streets, people are at the finish lines looking for bystanders and cops, and it's extremely organized and honest.


And let me tell you, just because a car is slow stock does not mean that it is pointless to modify. If you think that's the truth, you're in the wrong forum. I am at about 500 horses to the wheels, and I lost 500$ to a Civic hatchback. A Civic. Sure it had as much money into the turbo system as my car is worth, but the point is, it won. He got 200$ out of me too. We raced again for 300 and he mis shifted, he would have won again. Pointless? Unitl you're in my or his situation, I doubt you will see how much of a point there is in modifying a slow car. And this is exactly why I have respect for imports, muscle cars, whatever. If in the right hands, the car can absolutley dominate anything, it doesn't matter what your preference is. A true car enthusiast can appreciate both worlds.


And yeah, back in the day, most street races were old muscle. Modifying imports didn't really get big until the early 90s.

Street racing in the US has been around since the late 1940's, gentlemen. Over the years the cars have evolved from Rat-Rods to Hot-Rods and Muscle Cars to Sports Cars. What we have now are the "IMPORT-RACERS". I think this is a thin line between STYLE and PERFORMENCE. If we look back to our STREET RACING FOREFATHERS it was always about permormence first. Kids nowadays are all about 200lbs. worth of speakers and neon flashing lights and 20 in. wheels. NOT REAL STREET RACERS (they are RICERS!)! They may attempt to 'race'... but just cus you mix eggs and flour in shit... doesn't mean it's a CAKE! Don't get me wrong... there are some legitimate "road-racers" out there... but the majority are all caught-up in this multi-million dollar FAD. The Industry is blowing this out of porportion and messing it up for the real racers out there. EXAMPLE: I went to look at the new LAN-EVO 8's and all the sales guy was telling me was, "Yeah, this is the one car in the Fast and the Furious".... didn't even mention the cars specs! The majority of these kids have NO idea about performence!
---1viadrft

Actually silvia your wrong Hemi's goats and what not were factory compititions. Granted kids bought em and built them but you need to go a little farther back to see hot rods. You see back in the day The old man bought a dodge Charger and you being the greatful little bugger got his old 30 or 50's ford or chevy with a flathead 6cyl. Since Kids go with whats givin to them they naturally started to modify and build what ever they had. Look at old hot rod photos that are from the time You'll see kids with model T's. A's and cars that didn't even have a flat head V8. But they were cheap and you could get a old chevy V8 for cheap so why not upgrade. Not lets come up in the years and look at the 90's. Mom or dad got a new Ford Mustang. Being the greatful little bugger you were glad to get a free Honda Civic. Of course it's small slow and has no balls BUT it was free just like the Rambler your old man first got when your grand daddy bought a 64 Mustang. Read Hot rod Magazine some time they'll even tell you the Vtec is the 350 chevy of the new century. Now don't think I like Honda's cause I hate em. To small of engine and to much work to get decent proformance in my opinon. But You have to give some credit were credit is due.

I'll get off the soap box now

what the hell does this have to do with 240SX's?

moved to street racing forum.

Thanks Bryan...:rolleyes:

ok you freaking stupid moron, just cuz a car has a V8 doesn't mean its better, and just cuz a car is a muscle car doesn't mean it was meant to race, and just cuz a car is an import doesn't mean its a ricer car or they aren't tunable. I know a TON of people with musclecar or used to have muscle cars that street race or street raced back in highschool and college. Street racing in itself is not safe no, but there is not always a track to race at as another option, and street racing in itself is also not just some gay trend that started from the fast and the furious, yes some faggets copy off the movie cuz they don't know anything or are unoriginal but that doesn't define street racing.

and yes racing and ricers are different, your talking about ricers not racers. Ricers are the faggs that put on huge wings and big graphics and window stickers and a new muffler on a stock exhaust and throw on some neon lights, then think they are the coolest ever, well thats a ricer, maybe you should learn these things before you rant off totally wrong info.

and there are plenty of real racers with import cars... I mean if only muscle cars were fast and import cars weren't able to be real race cars, then how does an 86 Mazda rx-7 with a rotory engine hold the land speed record for its class at 286mph? and I would love to see one of those old muscle cars that weigh like 4,000lbs go out onto a road corse against an rx-7, or almost any light-weight RWD import, I believe the import would hand that muscle cars its 'rear bumper'

you can make any car fast, give me $100,000 and I'll make a pinto fast, I'll make a 4-door honda accord fast, you pick a freakin car and I'll make it fast with the right amount of money.

you just need to shot yourself in the face or else not be such a fagget

all i got to say is I'm not much into the "rice" look myslef although i enjoy looking at it I just couldnt drive something like that every day. I wouldn't mined seeing a "riced' out daewoo with some off the wall outragouse body kit flashing lights all over and all the stickers you can handle, and I wouldnt mined seeing like a freakin ford festiva with f'ed up paint, rust, and a broken tail light. If they are both fast both deserve props. Truth is ANYTHING can be fast as long as you have the money. If your fast or even working on it i aploud you. I dont even mined show cars, slow as crap but prity as long as they dont rev to me at a light, i respect these people to. Different strokes for different folks i say I apploud you all.

HOWEVER! If your mom gives you a civic and all you do is put stickers all over it and a big wing and you think it looks good so be it, I just hate it when they think they are fast and talk crap. Face it we are talking about an attatude here. Everyone is dumb that is human nature. Some are just anoyingly dumb. All we can do is just turn the other cheek and when you see one of these people give'em an extra car lenth or two of distace, so they dont take you out with em, and dont incurage them by racing em. But dont forget we all had slow cars and wanted to race two at one point, if you wanna race you better start practacing with some thing you can handle right? To me the most dangerouse person is the one with all the power and no know how on how to drive it, thats what scares me.

Hey if you wanna even help these poor 'lost' souls out give em a few tips and make us all safer. I know i could always use some.

Street racers are ricers, eh? From the way you two talk about it, it sounds like neither of you participate in this. Well I do. And I drive a Corvette, and I am still a "ricer?"


You don't seem to get it, J_Spec, he said this:

Ricers are street racers if they race...

There *IS* a difference between
"Ricers are street racers if they race"
and
"Street Racers are ricers if they race."

And s14silvias14 was talking about these "Fast & the Furious" wanna-be racers that are seen everywhere nowadays...notice he put "Street Racers" in quotes...hinting at the fact that these are not real street racers.

So to answer your question...Are you a ricer? No.

Are you unskilled at recognizing the patterns of speech and sentence construction in the English language? Yes.

Case closed.


Oh, and you other guys shouldn't hate on ricers. Instead, feel sorry for them, these guys make do with what they are given, no matter how shitty it is. They cannot afford and probably never will be able to afford quality cars, or for that matter, quality parts. If they take joy in what they do, more power to them...they need all the (horse)power they can get with the cars they get stuck with. If you don't like what they drive, then don't get a car like they have. Simple as that. If they're happy, leave them be...(Of course, it's ok to race one once in a while to make yourself feel good :p )


:owned:

Basically what we have been doing on the street has gone on for years, only the cars have changed. We all do what we can with what we have. Anyone who races on streets, are street races as stated before. Its just sifting out the morons who cause problems and risk to others from stupidity. Although I dont agree with the modding what they are "stuck with". If you are "stuck" with an 87 civic because you dont have much money, dont use the money you make for an OBX muffler and a 3" APC wing. Its just common sense. If your car is crappy dont bring attention to it with a hughe wing. Just my 2 psi.

Actually silvia your wrong Hemi's goats and what not were factory compititions. Granted kids bought em and built them but you need to go a little farther back to see hot rods. You see back in the day The old man bought a dodge Charger and you being the greatful little bugger got his old 30 or 50's ford or chevy with a flathead 6cyl. Since Kids go with whats givin to them they naturally started to modify and build what ever they had. Look at old hot rod photos that are from the time You'll see kids with model T's. A's and cars that didn't even have a flat head V8. But they were cheap and you could get a old chevy V8 for cheap so why not upgrade. Not lets come up in the years and look at the 90's. Mom or dad got a new Ford Mustang. Being the greatful little bugger you were glad to get a free Honda Civic. Of course it's small slow and has no balls BUT it was free just like the Rambler your old man first got when your grand daddy bought a 64 Mustang. Read Hot rod Magazine some time they'll even tell you the Vtec is the 350 chevy of the new century. Now don't think I like Honda's cause I hate em. To small of engine and to much work to get decent proformance in my opinon. But You have to give some credit were credit is due.

I'll get off the soap box now

That was truly classic and I completely agree! :bigthumb:

Basically what we have been doing on the street has gone on for years, only the cars have changed. We all do what we can with what we have. Anyone who races on streets, are street races as stated before. Its just sifting out the morons who cause problems and risk to others from stupidity. Although I dont agree with the modding what they are "stuck with". If you are "stuck" with an 87 civic because you dont have much money, dont use the money you make for an OBX muffler and a 3" APC wing. Its just common sense. If your car is crappy dont bring attention to it with a hughe wing. Just my 2 psi.

Point taken about the fact that they shouldn't be bringing attention to their POS cars....but hey, everyone craves some form of attention. (Well, almost everyone anyway)

But if they could buy better cars, don't you think they would have by now? And anyway...how does it hurt you or anyone else for that matter if these kids get a 3 inch wing and a shitty muffler? That's the closest they'll ever come to owning the a real "tuner" car, so let them...and besides, all it does is make your car look better :)

all the cars that were tuned back then were muscle cars. camaros, mustangs (v8's), firebirds, Goats, Chevelles, Hemi's...ya see the pattern? back then was different...i know the whole ricer terminology and im not confused...i think maybe u have to understand that ricers want to be street racers and try to be...i think u can agree with me on that...and if you do, thats what i was tryin to tell you...and i think u got it when u said some people just shouldnt try with some cars...

you say that cars back then were all muscle cars with v8s, but thats because there werent as many options then, and its the image you get about drag cars back then, when they werent all v8 mustangs, and camaros. you also say that cars now are little four cylinder civics, but thats how it was back then too, they got low power economy cars, and stuffed bigger engines in them, just like stuffing bigger engines in civics, its just a different car. same thing back then, but different cars, and more options today. some people like the idea of getting regular cars, and modifying them to go fast. also, back then, there were movies about cars too, i bet you there were some of those wanna be street racers back then too.

Street racing= Death of some poor school girl or elderly couple crossing the road at the wrong time...Something i wouldn't want to cause. There is no good reason to street race, no not even because you enjoy "the rush." If you dont have self control to make it to any local drag strip near or far then you have problems...Or maybe even an abandoned air base.

And as far as the "All muscle cars were V8's" argument is concerned, I'll slam that shut right now.

1965 Yenko Stinger.

http://www.corvaircorsa.com/stngring/sadek.jpg
http://www.corvaircorsa.com/yenko/yenkocc1.jpg
http://photo.thetechzone.com/data//503/6205corvair.jpg?6934

Or for that matter, the Cosworth Vega.

http://chrislongonline.com/images/carspeedrome.jpg

And modifying four and six cylinder cars from outside the US has been around a long time, it just wasn't always called import rodding. Way back when, there were guys bolting EMPI headers and Solex carbs onto their Beetles and dudes tearing the inefficient SPICA mechanical fuel injection off their Alfa GTV's and dropping on a pair of Weber DCOE's.

Club racers, was what the group was called.

ok ok. saying that all the muscle cars back then were v8's was a little hasty, i know that. but i think only one person actuallly understood what i was tryin to say from the start was IamCman...and Z28Josh proves a point too...the KIDS who race with no regard to people around them...and im talkin about racing in traffic without closing off a place or making it safe...I think all the ones who actually do this stuff are quick to defend but not really think about what i am saying...im not going too far into something like the whole v8 thing because i didnt really need to. as far as im concerned i think i generated enough responses and only got a couple that pretty much understood what i was tryin to tell you all.

Yo dogz U got this thing right hurrr all mixed up the forshizze. Yo when I got mee 20s rolling deep and my Airrr force one wing I cant be stoped. Yall know what this boyee be sayin! You gotta live yor life a quarter mile at a time, forrizzal. I mean that just how it tizz homie. So take yoo busted ass Demestic shit up in out hurr before I go wang chung on yoo ass wigga!! yea I know you scurrd

Hey, if my little 4 cyl Dodge Shadow comes with a turbo. Then I must say, its quiet there for racing lol.

But yeah, someone mentioned about getting an Rx7 against a Muscle car on a course and watching the muscle car get beaten. Just because the muscle cars are heavy does not mean that just cannot make no turn what so ever. I mean we have cars like the Mustang SVT Cobra which supposedly makes turns at 100 mph. If you ask me, id say thats pretty crazy and some car is gonna have a rough time beating it.

this thread is dumb, the whole statement "ricers are street racers if they race" and streetracer are ricers if they race" is total idiotic... first off we have ricers are street racers if they race... DUH! if anyone races they are a street racer.
then we've got if street racers race they are ricers, well if they are street racers they have to race so that is already foolishness, then comes the point from before, ricers are street racers, why must you say street racers are ricers? its the same thing just backwards... seems someone has a lack of intelligence.

now, stop talking about the difference of muscle cars and imports... the only difference is when they were built, where they were built, and what company built them... they are all sports cars in their own right so stop arguing about them

the most intelegent thing I heard was when 1quick2 said that if they are stuck with a civic don't spend the little bit of money they have on gay stuff, save for a new car... thats how I did it, I had a 1990 plymouth laser with a 1.8 that went 0-60 in 9 seconds... and it broke down once a month. well I saved for almost a year and a half to get my rx-7, but I did it, and now I can get money and put MODS on my car, I stress the word mods cuz I think mods are performance upgrades... all those wings, stickers, and chrome exhaust tips are ACCESSORIES... so never say your stuck with a car so you have to put cheap crap on it... I know from experience so don't try to pull that over on me

Alrighty, Soyo. You are just as bad as all the other morons of the forums, if not worse.

Get ready for a big post about how stupid you are.
Here we go...

the whole statement "ricers are street racers if they race" and streetracer are ricers if they race" is total idiotic...

So it's "total idiotic", is it? Something tells me you are more "total idiotic."

The stupidity continues...
this thread is dumb, the whole statement "ricers are street racers if they race" and streetracer are ricers if they race" is total idiotic... first off we have ricers are street racers if they race... DUH! if anyone races they are a street racer.
then we've got if street racers race they are ricers, well if they are street racers they have to race so that is already foolishness, then comes the point from before, ricers are street racers, why must you say street racers are ricers? its the same thing just backwards... seems someone has a lack of intelligence.

Thank you, Soyo, for repeating what I said here:

There *IS* a difference between
"Ricers are street racers if they race"
and
"Street Racers are ricers if they race."


You are correct...It does seem that someone has a lack of intelligence. Namely you.

More idiocy...
now, stop talking about the difference of muscle cars and imports... the only difference is when they were built, where they were built, and what company built them...they are all sports cars in their own right so stop arguing about them

I couldn't agree more that they should stop talking about the differences. For once, you've said something right. But you should've stopped there, because now you've given me more material to help expose your stupidity:

If you changed where a car was built, when it was built, and what company made it, you would have an entirely different car. But you forgot some other changes...Cars have changed what they are made of, and how they are made. Add in those two things and you've got two completely different cars. On one hand, you've got the domestics of old...Mustangs and such. The most popular car of its day. Pure power machines. The classic sports cars. Today, you've got the Honda Civic...Again, it's the most popular car of its day, but is it a pure power machine? Fuck no. It's a pure gas-mileage machine. Is it a sports car? Fuck no. I could take ten shits in the time it would take a stock civic to run a 1/4 mile. Way to contradict yourself, Soyo.


But wait, there's more.
the most intelegent thing I heard was when 1quick2 said that if they are stuck with a civic don't spend the little bit of money they have on gay stuff, save for a new car...

Hmmm. Funny. Let's read 1quick2's post again. Oh, by the way, you spelled "intelligent" wrong.

Basically what we have been doing on the street has gone on for years, only the cars have changed. We all do what we can with what we have. Anyone who races on streets, are street races as stated before. Its just sifting out the morons who cause problems and risk to others from stupidity. Although I dont agree with the modding what they are "stuck with". If you are "stuck" with an 87 civic because you dont have much money, dont use the money you make for an OBX muffler and a 3" APC wing. Its just common sense. If your car is crappy dont bring attention to it with a hughe wing. Just my 2 psi.

Well isn't that strange...it seems he mentions absolutely nothing about saving for a new car. Don't put words in people's mouths, it just gives me more things to laugh at you for.

And finally...

... so never say your stuck with a car so you have to put cheap crap on it... I know from experience so don't try to pull that over on me

I'll say they're stuck with a car...because that's the way it is for some of them. I know, for example, 2 brothers who *share* a CRX with mismatching body panels, stickers all over it, a muffler and a no-name shitty intake. Know how much it cost them to get that? A years worth of their savings...combined. They both work when they aren't at school to support their family. Does it make them "gay" or make them "fags" because they want to have a car that they can take joy in? No, I don't think it does. I know some of them can be annoying and downright stupid, but it isn't your business how they act. Keep to yourself and what to kind of cars you like.

So no, you don't know from experience, you bought a $4000-5000 car with a year and a half's worth of savings. You have no idea what it's like for them. Sorry, you just got shut down again.

Conclusion?

:nutkick: :owned:

My whole take on the street racing thing are that we have four catagories.

One, the street racer that has the money to install all the mods riight away and purchase the most expensive car etc. They MIGHT actually not be good DRIVERS, but they have the money to purchase the mods so they get the "Respect". (Now I say might because the are some very good drivers with good cars).

Our second group are the people with POS cars (what defines POS varies throughout people so I'm not going to get into that), who can actually drive, but since they drive cars that some people think on the outside are shitty (which again varies on opinion) they get bad mouthed. (Don't forget that there are other forms of racing than just a straight line....Ignore my nickname here for a second because I am serious" Drag racing (which is my least favorite kind of racing sport....just my opinion so no flames please) is just one of the many kinds of racing.

And third(the obvious connection here),with POS cars (what defines POS varies throughout people so I'm not going to get into that), who can't actually drive. (No matter what the age. I am sick of people giving the stereotype that just because you're young, there is a hundred percent chance you OBVIOUSLY can't have any skills. That's bull. It's true that alot of the younger drivers think that since they got an 80 or higher on drivers ed, they think they can race etc and that's just puts more people at risk. But there are a small amount of them who practice with more experianced drivers/ racers (who aren't parents so let's just kill that joke right before it starts) so that they can get better in racing.

And finally (and sometimes I think these people are the real threat) are the people who spend the time using general stereotypes trying to prove across the board about how they hate racing. (Not trying to take a shot at anyone).

So across the board, I have no problem with street racing. Humans are naturally competative so it just happens. If they are serious about racing they will take the cautions to keep "cilvians" save.

Just another thing to tell people.....see how I expressed my opinion without calling anyone a moron or taking a shot at anyone? Now some people here have done that and some people have ruined what have could have been a good point by just trying to intimidate your opposition...come on guys, try to use some common curtousy (spelling) lol

ColeIketani, you've brought up some good points about civility and about the different groups of people who are "street racers".

IamCman, you on the other hand, have made some fundamentally incorrect statements about the muscle car era. Believe it or not, the Mustang appeared at the tail-end of the first horsepower war in Detroit (and both Kenosha, Wisconsin -AMC- and South Bend, Indiana -Studebaker). The first horsepower war coinicided with the introduction of the OHV V8 by Cadillac in 1949. This was the first time when horsepower became a major sales factor in everyday cars, and engines like the Paxton blown Thunderbird V8 from 1957, the Chrysler Firepower 392ci Hemi in the 1955 Chrysler 300, and the Rochester Fuel Injected Chevy 283ci small block. This war raged on until 1963, when the factory super stockers (409 Impalas, Max Wedge Plymouths and Dodges, Super Duty Pontiacs, Ford Fairlane Thunderbolts, and R-code Paxton blown Studebakers) ruled NHRA's drag strips.

However, the AMA imposed (for safety reasons) a racing ban which stripped the Detroit companies of their factory racing programs. This, coupled with a recession that sank in during 1958, led to more awareness in compact, fuel efficient cars.

Detroit/Kenosha/South Bend's solutions to the compact car demand varied. GM took two bizarre paths; the rear mounted transaxle and aluminum V8 drivetrains of the Buick Special/Olds F85/Pontiac Tempest and the rear engine air cooled Corvair. AMC, of course, had the granny car known to all as the Rambler. Chrysler created the fancifully styled (some may say ugly, such as myself) Valiant, and Ford created the staid, bare bones, completely unimaginative Falcon. These cars soldiered on for three or four years (depending on the car) before style and sport became deisred from their usually young buyers.

The Falcon gained the Falcon Sprint model. The Valiant was given a fastback V8 model (half a year before the Mustang appeared) called the Barracuda. The Buick Special tried its hand at turbocharging. And the Corvair received the uprated Monza coupe and convertible models.

In a bold marketing move to capitalize on this desire for sporty compact cars (gee, we haven't heard that before) Ford took the Falcon platform and gave it a sporty body with coupe, fastback, and convertible versions. The engine was the same 289 that had been used with great success in Ford of England's dominant touring car Falcons. By giving the car a huge marketing push, and a range of options that allowed you to build anything from a stylish economy car (straight six, three speed automatic, stripper interior) to a posh V8 sportster that could blow those Corvair coupes and Barracudas into the weeds. They called it Mustang.

Hmmm, economy car, with style, marketed to young people using performance as the selling point. No, you don't see anything like that today. The Dodge Neon, Mazda Protege, Ford Focus, Honda Civic, Nissan Sentra, and Mini Cooper aren't trying to sell style and performance.

You sir, while I like the fact that you understand people who're trying to race on very tight budgets, have a very rose-colored view of the muscle car era. Just because the cars aren't rear drive midsize coupes with the bigger engines from their full size counterparts and hot names, graphics packages, and spoilers/scoops/sidepipes/mag wheels doesn't make them any less performance machines or any less desirable to the generation they've been built for.

heh...points taken. I didn't grow up with muscle cars, nor did I ever take interest in them...I've been around imports my whole life. But thanks for making corrections, I'll be sure to remember all that stuff.

YES, my point is to save the money you would spend to either buy, or put down payment on a car that is worth the time. He IS intelligent because he could understand the point of my post. "Closer to a tuner car"! How is that? Closer to a POS. What do you drive to consider a 3ft wing on a primered 87 CRX to make it "look better" never mind. dont answer that.

what post are you replying to "Quick"?

You're a big man to hate on ricers over the internet, Quick.

However, it takes a bigger one to defend them. You obviously do not have the human empathy required to know what it's like for some of these guys...some of them live a pretty tough life.

So... nowhere in your post do you mention saving money for a better car instead. You just say that they shouldn't spend their money on an OBX muffler or a 3" wing...almost like you think they should save it for the essentials of life, like food or something. You know, not everyone can see directly into the mind of another, especially through the internet.

Quick, I think you know what I'm talking about when I say closer to a tuner car. Think about it...it shouldn't be hard to figure out. All I see in magazines today are flashy cars with huge exhaust systems and nice, big wings on them. Oh yeah, and stickers. But those are hardly rice...they're still fast. Well, most of them anyway. But still, ricers try to get as close to they can to that "tuner" look by getting a cheap ass 50 dollar muffler, a cheap 50 dollar wing, and yes...stickers. On their primered/mismatching-color crx or other random shitty car. Is it their fault they can't afford real parts? Maybe. Will they ever be able to afford real parts? Maybe. Does what they do harm you in anyway? Nope, no worse than anyone else out there on the road today.

And when I say "look better" I mean look better within their little ricer group they hang out with. C'mon, almost everyone knows ricers band together. They have similar interests, and I think it's good that they stay within those little groups.

Finally...that Soyo guy? Intelligent? Him? Nawww. That guy is "total idiotic."

Oh...and if you want to see my car check out my gallery. I'd hardly call it rice...but I'd hardly call it fast either. But hey...looks way better than a primered crx.

You people need to stop, take a deep breath and read my sig. It shocks me that this thread hasn't been closed yet.

One, if you read my prior posts, I have not blown up at anyone before hand nor have I insulted thier intellegence.

Two,Although this topic has been brought up probably hundred times in the past, I think that it's a important topic to discuss

you guys are just trying to break my record of a 23 page argument. i cant believe this has not been closed yet. While i would never buy a civic, dont bash econo cars that is what true muscle cars came from, 'small' to 'midsize' cars with big engines, thats what the nova was an econo car, till they put bad ass v8's in it.(even then it still had the smaller engines if you wanted an econo car.)

<points to my post about the 4 types of street racer>

i doubt it'll go up to 23 pages. not many people understood what i was really tryin to say and it kinda went off into something else. but i think everyones' point was given and taken into consideration, through some experience they all have with whatever they do...car enthusiast of not...someone's always gotta say somethin about what they know, even if they dont know anything at all...when your proud of something, your gonna defend it if it gets knocked...so, ricer, racer, whatever...the whole point is that you love to race and you love cars...

I don't see the problem with having a different picture of what a "muscle car" is. It's just a word people use for a thing. I always thought of muscle cars as being all about the feeling of massive power you get while driving. Maybe a little down on refinement, and they require experience to be able to control them, like a shelby cobra, or a Lamborghini Countach. Ferraris tend to be more suited to driving, therefore I'd call them sports cars. Everybody I've talked to (and things I've read) say that Lambo's are beasts to drive. Ferraris on the other hand (some of them touchy at the limit) are much easier on the driver. I think of the '65 GTO when I think about the stereotypical muscle car.

The original topic had nothing to do with muscle cars, vs. anything. It was simply stating that there seems to be more people interested in dressing cars these days, than there are people who just want to go fast. Not a very interesting topic, but please stay on topic or this topic will probably end up closed.

you guys are just trying to break my record of a 23 page argument. i cant believe this has not been closed yet. While i would never buy a civic, dont bash econo cars that is what true muscle cars came from, 'small' to 'midsize' cars with big engines, thats what the nova was an econo car, till they put bad ass v8's in it.(even then it still had the smaller engines if you wanted an econo car.)

There's nothing large about the engine in a civic, lemme tell ya. Sure, spoon civics have some balls but the engines aren't big. The vibe of a muscle car is the rumpety pumpety nut busting roar of a unnecessarily huge engine backed by a manual taken out of a commercial truck. In the end they were purpose built to just go blindingly fast, and nobody ever thought to put an econo engine in them because they had made the car too large for it to move, for the sake of fitting the engine in. When honda puts an engine above 4.0L in a civic, I'll give em some credit.

There's nothing large about the engine in a civic, lemme tell ya. Sure, spoon civics have some balls but the engines aren't big. The vibe of a muscle car is the rumpety pumpety nut busting roar of a unnecessarily huge engine backed by a manual taken out of a commercial truck. In the end they were purpose built to just go blindingly fast, and nobody ever thought to put an econo engine in them because they had made the car too large for it to move, for the sake of fitting the engine in. When honda puts an engine above 4.0L in a civic, I'll give em some credit.

dude, where the heck did i call their engines big? i dont even like civics(dont hate them though).

The vibe of a muscle car is the rumpety pumpety nut busting roar of a unnecessarily huge engine backed by a manual taken out of a commercial truck. In the end they were purpose built to just go blindingly fast, and nobody ever thought to put an econo engine in them because they had made the car too large for it to move, for the sake of fitting the engine in.

first off i dont think the civic is a muscle car, the only import muscle car was the Shelby cobra which was an american v8 in a british AC car body.
secondly, i said many muscle cars were econo cars before they became nut busting muscle cars, like the nova with only 90hp when it started. here read it again and tell me where i said a civic has a big engine.

you guys are just trying to break my record of a 23 page argument. i cant believe this has not been closed yet. While i would never buy a civic, dont bash econo cars that is what true muscle cars came from, 'small' to 'midsize' cars with big engines, thats what the nova was an econo car, till they put bad ass v8's in it.(even then it still had the smaller engines if you wanted an econo car.)

what a worthless thread
and yes, this is a worthless post

what a worthless thread

I agree. It has gone on long enough.