FAQ's regarding the Impreza
LjasonL
01-15-2004, 01:06 PM
There are some questions we seem to get frequently in here, I thought this would help. If you can think of any corrections to this, or anything that should be added, make a new thread about it or PM (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/private.php?do=newpm&u=7512) me.
General Impreza Stuff:
What is my model code? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470773#post1470773)
How many 2.5RS's did they make? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470779#post1470779)
Is there such a thing as a twin-turbo WRX? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470967#post1470967)
Which is better, the SOHC or DOHC 2.5RS? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2360963#post2360963)
Reliability Stuff:
Is the Impreza reliable? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470825#post1470825)
Does the WRX/Impreza have a "glass tranny"? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470826#post1470826)
Why is my car hard to shift into 1st/reverse? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470827#post1470827)
Swap Stuff:
Which engines were available? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470829#post1470829)
What engines can I swap into my Impreza? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470830#post1470830)
What about the transmission? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470832#post1470832)
Can I change my FWD Impreza to AWD? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470836#post1470836)
Performance and Modification Related Stuff:
Will "X" modification void my warranty? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2032400#post2032400)
Should I lower my Impreza/WRX? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470920#post1470920)
How do I actually go about lowering the car? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470931#post1470931)
How do I make my Impreza handle well? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470946#post1470946)
Can I turbocharge my Impreza? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470977#post1470977)
FMIC vs. TMIC (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1471133#post1471133)
Intakes (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1475590#post1475590)
Boost Controllers (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1657814#post1657814)
Swaybars (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=5007332#post5007332)
General Impreza Stuff:
What is my model code? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470773#post1470773)
How many 2.5RS's did they make? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470779#post1470779)
Is there such a thing as a twin-turbo WRX? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470967#post1470967)
Which is better, the SOHC or DOHC 2.5RS? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2360963#post2360963)
Reliability Stuff:
Is the Impreza reliable? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470825#post1470825)
Does the WRX/Impreza have a "glass tranny"? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470826#post1470826)
Why is my car hard to shift into 1st/reverse? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470827#post1470827)
Swap Stuff:
Which engines were available? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470829#post1470829)
What engines can I swap into my Impreza? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470830#post1470830)
What about the transmission? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470832#post1470832)
Can I change my FWD Impreza to AWD? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470836#post1470836)
Performance and Modification Related Stuff:
Will "X" modification void my warranty? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2032400#post2032400)
Should I lower my Impreza/WRX? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470920#post1470920)
How do I actually go about lowering the car? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470931#post1470931)
How do I make my Impreza handle well? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470946#post1470946)
Can I turbocharge my Impreza? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1470977#post1470977)
FMIC vs. TMIC (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1471133#post1471133)
Intakes (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1475590#post1475590)
Boost Controllers (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1657814#post1657814)
Swaybars (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=5007332#post5007332)
LjasonL
01-15-2004, 01:06 PM
What is my model code?
1993-2001:
GC - Sedan
GM - Coupe
GF - Wagon
2002+:
GD - Sedan
GG - Wagon
Applied Model Codes:
8 - 2.0L 93-00 WRX
A - 2.0L 01+ WRX
B - 2.0L 02+ WRX STi
C - 2.2L N/A
E - 2.5L N/A Impreza
6 - 2.5L N/A Legacy
9 - 2.5L XT
F - 2.5L STi
9 - 3.0L H6
VIN Chassis Codes:
2 - 1.8L
2 - 2.0L
4 - 2.2L
6 - 2.5L N/A and XT
7 - 2.5L STi
8 - 3.0L H6
3 - 3.3L H6
So my 2.5TS's model code would be GGE, and the Vin code would be GG6. GG6 is the one you would commonly hear referred to.
1993-2001:
GC - Sedan
GM - Coupe
GF - Wagon
2002+:
GD - Sedan
GG - Wagon
Applied Model Codes:
8 - 2.0L 93-00 WRX
A - 2.0L 01+ WRX
B - 2.0L 02+ WRX STi
C - 2.2L N/A
E - 2.5L N/A Impreza
6 - 2.5L N/A Legacy
9 - 2.5L XT
F - 2.5L STi
9 - 3.0L H6
VIN Chassis Codes:
2 - 1.8L
2 - 2.0L
4 - 2.2L
6 - 2.5L N/A and XT
7 - 2.5L STi
8 - 3.0L H6
3 - 3.3L H6
So my 2.5TS's model code would be GGE, and the Vin code would be GG6. GG6 is the one you would commonly hear referred to.
LjasonL
01-15-2004, 01:07 PM
How many 2.5RS's did they make?
98 Impreza RS Coupe 5-speed - 995
98 Impreza RS Coupe automatic - 685
Total for 1998 - 1,680 units
99 Impreza RS Coupe 5-speed - 1,795
99 Impreza RS Coupe automatic - 345
Total for 1999 - 2,140 units
00 Impreza RS Coupe 5-speed - 2,375
00 Impreza RS Coupe automatic - 535
00 Impreza RS Sedan 5-speed - 1,636
00 Impreza RS Sedan automatic - 1,574
Total for 2000 - 6,120 units
01 Impreza RS Coupe 5-speed - 1,701
01 Impreza RS Coupe automatic - 324
01 Impreza RS Sedan 5-speed - 1,057
01 Impreza RS Sedan automatic - 1,011
Total for 2001 - 4,093 units
Total - 14,033
I don't have the production info for the 02-03's, and the 04+'s are still in production.
98 Impreza RS Coupe 5-speed - 995
98 Impreza RS Coupe automatic - 685
Total for 1998 - 1,680 units
99 Impreza RS Coupe 5-speed - 1,795
99 Impreza RS Coupe automatic - 345
Total for 1999 - 2,140 units
00 Impreza RS Coupe 5-speed - 2,375
00 Impreza RS Coupe automatic - 535
00 Impreza RS Sedan 5-speed - 1,636
00 Impreza RS Sedan automatic - 1,574
Total for 2000 - 6,120 units
01 Impreza RS Coupe 5-speed - 1,701
01 Impreza RS Coupe automatic - 324
01 Impreza RS Sedan 5-speed - 1,057
01 Impreza RS Sedan automatic - 1,011
Total for 2001 - 4,093 units
Total - 14,033
I don't have the production info for the 02-03's, and the 04+'s are still in production.
LjasonL
01-15-2004, 01:19 PM
Is the Impreza reliable?
Consumer Reports lists the Impreza in its "good bets", which are cars with above average reliablility. The complete list is here - http://autos.yahoo.com/consumerreports/best_worst_used.html
If you would like to read how some of us owners feel about the reliability of our cars, check these threads
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=174949&highlight=reliable
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=137140&highlight=reliable
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=130630&highlight=reliable
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=108103&highlight=reliable
Consumer Reports lists the Impreza in its "good bets", which are cars with above average reliablility. The complete list is here - http://autos.yahoo.com/consumerreports/best_worst_used.html
If you would like to read how some of us owners feel about the reliability of our cars, check these threads
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=174949&highlight=reliable
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=137140&highlight=reliable
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=130630&highlight=reliable
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=108103&highlight=reliable
LjasonL
01-15-2004, 01:19 PM
Does the WRX/Impreza have a "glass tranny"?
Short answer - no. Most transmission failures you hear about were caused by improper driving techniques. In a 2wd car, excess force pushed through the driveline is released by spinning the tires. An AWD won't spin the tires nearly as easily, so that force is distributed inside the driveline, on the clutch and gears. This is what leads to failure. This is a problem in ANY AWD car, not just the Impreza. So a totally stock WRX can destroy the transmission pretty quickly if you're always beating on it and being rough. At the same time, there are many people who have gone deep into the 12's and even 11's on the stock transmission with no problems because they know how to drive it right.
Short answer - no. Most transmission failures you hear about were caused by improper driving techniques. In a 2wd car, excess force pushed through the driveline is released by spinning the tires. An AWD won't spin the tires nearly as easily, so that force is distributed inside the driveline, on the clutch and gears. This is what leads to failure. This is a problem in ANY AWD car, not just the Impreza. So a totally stock WRX can destroy the transmission pretty quickly if you're always beating on it and being rough. At the same time, there are many people who have gone deep into the 12's and even 11's on the stock transmission with no problems because they know how to drive it right.
LjasonL
01-15-2004, 01:20 PM
Why is my car hard to shift into 1st/reverse?
It's not a problem with your car, just an inherent design characteristic of the Subaru 5 speed transmission. It's just part of what gives our cars their unique character. The synchros aren't quite able to keep up at times, especially when downshifting into 1st gear from a roll. If you hold the clutch in and put light pressure on the gear stick, it'll go in gear after a few seconds. Or you can learn to double clutch and not have to wait. It was discussed a little more in this thread - http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=158579&highlight=tranny
For the reverse gear, it's hard to get in because it's a straight cut gear, and if the teeth aren't lined up it simply won't go in. If you're having problems getting it in, try letting up on the clutch pedal a little, not enough to actually make the car move, but once it's out a little it should rotate the gears and line up so you can shift into reverse. If that doesn't work, it's "stuck" and you can try shifting into 1st then going back into reverse. It's not as big a deal as it sounds once you get used to it. I don't even think about it anymore.
It's not a problem with your car, just an inherent design characteristic of the Subaru 5 speed transmission. It's just part of what gives our cars their unique character. The synchros aren't quite able to keep up at times, especially when downshifting into 1st gear from a roll. If you hold the clutch in and put light pressure on the gear stick, it'll go in gear after a few seconds. Or you can learn to double clutch and not have to wait. It was discussed a little more in this thread - http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=158579&highlight=tranny
For the reverse gear, it's hard to get in because it's a straight cut gear, and if the teeth aren't lined up it simply won't go in. If you're having problems getting it in, try letting up on the clutch pedal a little, not enough to actually make the car move, but once it's out a little it should rotate the gears and line up so you can shift into reverse. If that doesn't work, it's "stuck" and you can try shifting into 1st then going back into reverse. It's not as big a deal as it sounds once you get used to it. I don't even think about it anymore.
LjasonL
01-15-2004, 01:21 PM
Which engines were available?
EJ18 - 1.8 liter available in the Impreza from 93-97, it was 1820cc, 110hp and 120ft/lbs, 9.0:1 compression ratio
EJ22 Phase 1 - 2.2 liter available in the Impreza from 95-98, it was 2212cc, 135hp and 140ft/lbs, 9.0:1 compression ratio
EJ22 Phase 2 - 2.2 liter available in the Impreza from 99-01, it was 2212cc, 142hp and 149ft/lbs
EJ25 Phase 1 - 2.5 liter DOHC available in the Impreza from 98-99, it was 2457cc, 165hp and 162ft/lbs, 9.7:1 compression ratio
EJ25 Phase 2 - 2.5 liter SOHC available in the Impreza from 99 and above, it was 2457cc, 165hp and 167ft/lbs, 10.0:1 compression ratio (9.7:1 compression ratio in '99)
EJ20 - 2.0 liter DOHC Turbo available in the Impreza WRX from 02 and above, it was 1998cc, 227hp and 217ft/lbs, 8.0:1 compression ratio
EJ257 - 2.5 liter DOHC Turbo available in the Impreza WRX STi from 04 and above, 300hp and 300ft/lbs , 8.6:1 (?) compression ratio
EJ22T - 2.2 liter Turbo available in the Legacy Turbo from 92-94, it was 2212cc, 160hp and 181ft/lbs, 9.0:1 compression ratio - though not available in the Impreza, a popular swap for those who can't afford a WRX swap.
EJ18 - 1.8 liter available in the Impreza from 93-97, it was 1820cc, 110hp and 120ft/lbs, 9.0:1 compression ratio
EJ22 Phase 1 - 2.2 liter available in the Impreza from 95-98, it was 2212cc, 135hp and 140ft/lbs, 9.0:1 compression ratio
EJ22 Phase 2 - 2.2 liter available in the Impreza from 99-01, it was 2212cc, 142hp and 149ft/lbs
EJ25 Phase 1 - 2.5 liter DOHC available in the Impreza from 98-99, it was 2457cc, 165hp and 162ft/lbs, 9.7:1 compression ratio
EJ25 Phase 2 - 2.5 liter SOHC available in the Impreza from 99 and above, it was 2457cc, 165hp and 167ft/lbs, 10.0:1 compression ratio (9.7:1 compression ratio in '99)
EJ20 - 2.0 liter DOHC Turbo available in the Impreza WRX from 02 and above, it was 1998cc, 227hp and 217ft/lbs, 8.0:1 compression ratio
EJ257 - 2.5 liter DOHC Turbo available in the Impreza WRX STi from 04 and above, 300hp and 300ft/lbs , 8.6:1 (?) compression ratio
EJ22T - 2.2 liter Turbo available in the Legacy Turbo from 92-94, it was 2212cc, 160hp and 181ft/lbs, 9.0:1 compression ratio - though not available in the Impreza, a popular swap for those who can't afford a WRX swap.
LjasonL
01-15-2004, 01:21 PM
What engines can I swap into my Impreza?
Any Impreza can accept an engine from any other Impreza or EJ-series Subaru with varying degrees of difficulty. For the most part, they're direct bolt ins with some wiring. If swapping a turbo engine into an N/A car, the crossmembers are different, and you will need the turbo crossmember too for a true bolt in swap.
Any Impreza can accept an engine from any other Impreza or EJ-series Subaru with varying degrees of difficulty. For the most part, they're direct bolt ins with some wiring. If swapping a turbo engine into an N/A car, the crossmembers are different, and you will need the turbo crossmember too for a true bolt in swap.
LjasonL
01-15-2004, 01:22 PM
What about the transmission?
All EJ series engines use the same bolt pattern on the bellhousing. Some use more bolts than others, but the pattern is the same. This means you can bolt up the transmission from any Subaru with an EJ-series engine to any other Subaru with an EJ-series engine. The only difficulty is the turbo cars use a pull type clutch, and the N/A cars use a push type clutch, so you have to make sure you use the right clutch and flywheel assembly
All EJ series engines use the same bolt pattern on the bellhousing. Some use more bolts than others, but the pattern is the same. This means you can bolt up the transmission from any Subaru with an EJ-series engine to any other Subaru with an EJ-series engine. The only difficulty is the turbo cars use a pull type clutch, and the N/A cars use a push type clutch, so you have to make sure you use the right clutch and flywheel assembly
LjasonL
01-15-2004, 01:22 PM
Can I change my FWD Impreza to AWD?
Yes, will need a good deal of parts to do this. Here is the list as seen here (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=386462)
Q: "I have a FWD Subaru, can I convert it to AWD?"
A: As previously stated, Subarus are very interchangeable. If your car came with an EJ series engine, then any other engine components from an EJ series engine will drop into your chassis. Most of the time, you can't slowly convert to AWD; many of the components require the removal and/or installation of other components to work.
Q: "What components are needed to convert a FWD Subaru to AWD? Also read as 'Transmission swap technicalities'"
A: A new transmission will be required. Along with the new transmission comes the front diff, center diff, and tailshaft. You must also get the corresponding driveline for the transmission (side note here, if you are merely swapping one AWD transmission for another the MT typically shares one driveline between all other MTs and the ATs share another driveline; the STi 6-speed uses an AT driveline). There are many rear diff options, and any of them can be used as long as the final drive matches the final drive of the rear diff of the donor car the transmission came from. Front axles should be interchangeable, but newer axles are thicker. CV strength has remained the same and are not a weak point. Rear open diffs can be found on most Subaru models. Rear LSD s came on some Legacy Turbos, Some SVXs, 2000-2001 2.5RSs, and 2002+ WRXs. While final drive ratios vary, the axle splines do not. Your diff choice governs which rear axles are to be used. You will either need rear axles from an open diff Legacy or GC/GF/GM Impreza for an open diff or rear LSD axles from a 2000-2001 Impreza 2.5RS (ask for axles from 05/2000+ to be safe) for a rear LSD. If you are converting from AT to MT or viceversa, you will need the corresponding ECU since the AT ECU expects a TCU signal. You can spoof it as some have done.
"What else is needed?" Along with the basic driveline components, you are going to need most of the rear suspension and mounts from the transmission back. This includes the transmission crossmember, rear diff crossmember (and all in between), AWD gastank with driveline hump, struts and springs, AWD knuckles, a plethora of bushings, with the possibility of lateral links, swaybar, and trailing arms also being needed. Your best bet is to find an entire donor car that can be stripped. If that is not an option, you will be, as beachbum has said, 'nickle-and-dimed to death'.
Yes, will need a good deal of parts to do this. Here is the list as seen here (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=386462)
Q: "I have a FWD Subaru, can I convert it to AWD?"
A: As previously stated, Subarus are very interchangeable. If your car came with an EJ series engine, then any other engine components from an EJ series engine will drop into your chassis. Most of the time, you can't slowly convert to AWD; many of the components require the removal and/or installation of other components to work.
Q: "What components are needed to convert a FWD Subaru to AWD? Also read as 'Transmission swap technicalities'"
A: A new transmission will be required. Along with the new transmission comes the front diff, center diff, and tailshaft. You must also get the corresponding driveline for the transmission (side note here, if you are merely swapping one AWD transmission for another the MT typically shares one driveline between all other MTs and the ATs share another driveline; the STi 6-speed uses an AT driveline). There are many rear diff options, and any of them can be used as long as the final drive matches the final drive of the rear diff of the donor car the transmission came from. Front axles should be interchangeable, but newer axles are thicker. CV strength has remained the same and are not a weak point. Rear open diffs can be found on most Subaru models. Rear LSD s came on some Legacy Turbos, Some SVXs, 2000-2001 2.5RSs, and 2002+ WRXs. While final drive ratios vary, the axle splines do not. Your diff choice governs which rear axles are to be used. You will either need rear axles from an open diff Legacy or GC/GF/GM Impreza for an open diff or rear LSD axles from a 2000-2001 Impreza 2.5RS (ask for axles from 05/2000+ to be safe) for a rear LSD. If you are converting from AT to MT or viceversa, you will need the corresponding ECU since the AT ECU expects a TCU signal. You can spoof it as some have done.
"What else is needed?" Along with the basic driveline components, you are going to need most of the rear suspension and mounts from the transmission back. This includes the transmission crossmember, rear diff crossmember (and all in between), AWD gastank with driveline hump, struts and springs, AWD knuckles, a plethora of bushings, with the possibility of lateral links, swaybar, and trailing arms also being needed. Your best bet is to find an entire donor car that can be stripped. If that is not an option, you will be, as beachbum has said, 'nickle-and-dimed to death'.
LjasonL
01-15-2004, 01:51 PM
Should I lower my Impreza/WRX?
That's up to you. There are a lot of rumors about how you "shouldn't" lower an Impreza because the factory has some magic perfect suspension settings and you'll just make it handle worse. This is not true. Lowering an Impreza has the same benefits as lowering any other car. Lower center of gravity and less body roll, which means better handling. Plus, it just looks cool :biggrin: The thing you need to remember when lowering an Impreza or ANY car, is don't go TOO low and don't go TOO stiff. Any suspension requires a certain amount of suspension travel to work right, and if it's too stiff it will bounce around too much to handle well. Your best bet is to go with a coilover spring and strut combination, Tein makes kits for the Impreza at reasonable prices. If you can't afford a full coilover setup, springs alone can offer some benefit, as long as they're designed right. The best way to make sure of that is to simply buy from a reputable manufacturer that know's what they're doing, like Tein or Whiteline for example. Stay away from the cheap "coilover conversion kits" that are just a sleeve that drops over the stock strut.
That's up to you. There are a lot of rumors about how you "shouldn't" lower an Impreza because the factory has some magic perfect suspension settings and you'll just make it handle worse. This is not true. Lowering an Impreza has the same benefits as lowering any other car. Lower center of gravity and less body roll, which means better handling. Plus, it just looks cool :biggrin: The thing you need to remember when lowering an Impreza or ANY car, is don't go TOO low and don't go TOO stiff. Any suspension requires a certain amount of suspension travel to work right, and if it's too stiff it will bounce around too much to handle well. Your best bet is to go with a coilover spring and strut combination, Tein makes kits for the Impreza at reasonable prices. If you can't afford a full coilover setup, springs alone can offer some benefit, as long as they're designed right. The best way to make sure of that is to simply buy from a reputable manufacturer that know's what they're doing, like Tein or Whiteline for example. Stay away from the cheap "coilover conversion kits" that are just a sleeve that drops over the stock strut.
LjasonL
01-15-2004, 01:55 PM
How do I actually go about lowering the car?
I wrote a step by step on here a while back to tell a user how to install the "coilover conversion kit" on his Impreza. Although I don't recommend installing those types of kits, the same instructions can be used to install regular springs, struts, or a "real" coilover setup.
Click here for step-by-step (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=137240&highlight=lower)
I wrote a step by step on here a while back to tell a user how to install the "coilover conversion kit" on his Impreza. Although I don't recommend installing those types of kits, the same instructions can be used to install regular springs, struts, or a "real" coilover setup.
Click here for step-by-step (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=137240&highlight=lower)
LjasonL
01-15-2004, 02:00 PM
How do I make my Impreza handle well?
Click here for a good and easily understandable writeup on handling for cars in general (http://www.arimport.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=489)
The stock Impreza seems to have a problem with understeer, so the 1st thing to do should be eliminate that. The easiest way is a new rear sway bar. I recommend an adjustable one so you can "dial it in" to suit your driving style and preferences, since what works for one person may not work for another. Personally I have a 24mm adjustable rear sway from Whiteline I got for about $150 shipped, and it's the best mod I've done to my car for the money.
Click here for a good and easily understandable writeup on handling for cars in general (http://www.arimport.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=489)
The stock Impreza seems to have a problem with understeer, so the 1st thing to do should be eliminate that. The easiest way is a new rear sway bar. I recommend an adjustable one so you can "dial it in" to suit your driving style and preferences, since what works for one person may not work for another. Personally I have a 24mm adjustable rear sway from Whiteline I got for about $150 shipped, and it's the best mod I've done to my car for the money.
LjasonL
01-15-2004, 02:06 PM
Is there such a thing as a twin-turbo WRX?
From the factory, no. There IS a factory twin-turbo Legacy, however. The TT Legacy engine has been successfully swapped into a number of other Subaru models, including Imprezas, and could easily be swapped into a WRX if it hasn't been done already. There are also twin-turbo kits available for the WRX and other Imprezas.
From the factory, no. There IS a factory twin-turbo Legacy, however. The TT Legacy engine has been successfully swapped into a number of other Subaru models, including Imprezas, and could easily be swapped into a WRX if it hasn't been done already. There are also twin-turbo kits available for the WRX and other Imprezas.
LjasonL
01-15-2004, 02:10 PM
Can I turbocharge my Impreza?
Yes, there are a few different ways to go about doing this. 1st is to simply swap in a motor from a factory turbo Subaru. 2nd, there are a good deal of turbo kits available for the Impreza. www.forcedairtech.com is one of the companies that makes them, there are a good deal of other companies you can find by searching around. 3rd is you could build a custom kit. This is the most difficult and complicated way, but can also be one of the cheapest, and you get to use exactly which parts you want. This is the route I'm taking
Yes, there are a few different ways to go about doing this. 1st is to simply swap in a motor from a factory turbo Subaru. 2nd, there are a good deal of turbo kits available for the Impreza. www.forcedairtech.com is one of the companies that makes them, there are a good deal of other companies you can find by searching around. 3rd is you could build a custom kit. This is the most difficult and complicated way, but can also be one of the cheapest, and you get to use exactly which parts you want. This is the route I'm taking
LjasonL
01-15-2004, 03:13 PM
FMIC vs. TMIC
An FMIC is a Front Mount InterCooler. A TMIC is a Top Mount InterCooler.
TMIC pros:
Shorter piping means less lag
Intercooler is up in a protected location
TMIC cons:
Not as much airflow or space
Heat soak from close proximity to turbo and engine
FMIC pros:
Increased airflow means better cooling
More space to work with
FMIC cons:
Longer piping means more lag
Easily damaged
Which one is best depends on the application. For a lightly modded car, a TMIC may be best because it will cool *enough* to work, but will be less laggy and you won't destroy it if you get in a fender bender. But if you're going for big power numbers, the increased size and airflow an FMIC offer is necessary.
An FMIC is a Front Mount InterCooler. A TMIC is a Top Mount InterCooler.
TMIC pros:
Shorter piping means less lag
Intercooler is up in a protected location
TMIC cons:
Not as much airflow or space
Heat soak from close proximity to turbo and engine
FMIC pros:
Increased airflow means better cooling
More space to work with
FMIC cons:
Longer piping means more lag
Easily damaged
Which one is best depends on the application. For a lightly modded car, a TMIC may be best because it will cool *enough* to work, but will be less laggy and you won't destroy it if you get in a fender bender. But if you're going for big power numbers, the increased size and airflow an FMIC offer is necessary.
LjasonL
01-17-2004, 12:54 AM
Intakes
Written by MB38
There are three main types of intake "upgrades" you can perform:
1: Cold Air Intakes
2: Short Ram Intakes
3: Drop-in Filters
The first thing to note is that Imprezas do not like to have their intake plumbing fiddled with. Many tuners won't allow a car on their dyno if the intake has been modified. The single best change you can make to your intake tract is the removal of the intake silencer.
1: The concept that drives cold air intakes is simple: colder is better. The piping extends from the MAF down into the fender behind the fog lights where it will, in theory, suck in colder air than it would in the engine compartment. While it's a good theory, there is a problem. The ~5-10 degree intake temperature difference that you will get by sucking in fender air will be thoroughly negated by the 400+ degree temperature inside the turbo. In naturally aspirated Imprezas, the colder intake temperature will not yield greater horsepower either. In fact, in both forced induction and naturally aspirated Imprezas, any cold air intake will merely yield a CEL. There has been no dyno proof that cold air intakes have any positive effects on Imprezas.
2: Short ram intakes stem from a different principle than cold air intakes. The short ram intake sucks in the same air that the factory airbox does, it simply does it in a more efficient manner by reducing restriction. In both naturally aspirated and forced induction Imprezas, this lowered restriction will cause a dangerously lean fuel mixture and a CEL. There is only one [WRX] intake on the market (Perrin Performances) that will not yeild a CEL as the MAF housing is the same diameter as stock and the filter element has enough restriction to keep from causing problems. There has been no dyno proof, however, that this intake increases power.
3: Drop in filters rely on the factory airbox to supply air. The filters are lower restriction than the stock filter which, theoretically, increases power. Unfortunately, there has been no dyno proof to illustrate these power increases. Some drop in filters will cause CELs and lean-mixture problems, some will not. There is no advantage to buying a drop in filter over the stock airbox.
There are only two circumstances when an aftermarket intake of any kind will be required or will increase power. The first is when a front mount intercooler has been installed. Because of the way that FMICs are plumbed, the factory airbox must be removed and replaced with a short ram intake. The setup must then be tuned appropriately.
The other condition is on cars making more than 350awhp on a Dyno Dynamics Dyno. Only at these extreme power levels is the factory airbox's utility expended.
In other words, save yourself the money.
Written by MB38
There are three main types of intake "upgrades" you can perform:
1: Cold Air Intakes
2: Short Ram Intakes
3: Drop-in Filters
The first thing to note is that Imprezas do not like to have their intake plumbing fiddled with. Many tuners won't allow a car on their dyno if the intake has been modified. The single best change you can make to your intake tract is the removal of the intake silencer.
1: The concept that drives cold air intakes is simple: colder is better. The piping extends from the MAF down into the fender behind the fog lights where it will, in theory, suck in colder air than it would in the engine compartment. While it's a good theory, there is a problem. The ~5-10 degree intake temperature difference that you will get by sucking in fender air will be thoroughly negated by the 400+ degree temperature inside the turbo. In naturally aspirated Imprezas, the colder intake temperature will not yield greater horsepower either. In fact, in both forced induction and naturally aspirated Imprezas, any cold air intake will merely yield a CEL. There has been no dyno proof that cold air intakes have any positive effects on Imprezas.
2: Short ram intakes stem from a different principle than cold air intakes. The short ram intake sucks in the same air that the factory airbox does, it simply does it in a more efficient manner by reducing restriction. In both naturally aspirated and forced induction Imprezas, this lowered restriction will cause a dangerously lean fuel mixture and a CEL. There is only one [WRX] intake on the market (Perrin Performances) that will not yeild a CEL as the MAF housing is the same diameter as stock and the filter element has enough restriction to keep from causing problems. There has been no dyno proof, however, that this intake increases power.
3: Drop in filters rely on the factory airbox to supply air. The filters are lower restriction than the stock filter which, theoretically, increases power. Unfortunately, there has been no dyno proof to illustrate these power increases. Some drop in filters will cause CELs and lean-mixture problems, some will not. There is no advantage to buying a drop in filter over the stock airbox.
There are only two circumstances when an aftermarket intake of any kind will be required or will increase power. The first is when a front mount intercooler has been installed. Because of the way that FMICs are plumbed, the factory airbox must be removed and replaced with a short ram intake. The setup must then be tuned appropriately.
The other condition is on cars making more than 350awhp on a Dyno Dynamics Dyno. Only at these extreme power levels is the factory airbox's utility expended.
In other words, save yourself the money.
LjasonL
03-22-2004, 11:08 PM
Boost Controllers
Manual boost controllers:
Manual boost controllers are pretty basic. They raise the boost, but don't do anything else. They work if you're strapped for cash though. They come in 2 basic types, ball and spring, or screw. A ball and spring controller has a spring with a ball on the end, and once there is enough boost, it compresses the spring, opening the wastegate. The advantage to this type is it opens the wastegate instantly once boost is completely built, so the car will spool up faster than with a screw type and in the end be quicker at the same boost level. Even adding a ball and spring controller to a stock car, without raising the boost at all, can make it quicker because it spools faster, since the stock wastegate opens slowly a little at a time, and the full force of the exhaust isn't used to spool the turbo. The disadvantage to this type is it will be spooled more and boosting more during part throttle driving, and you may get higher than recommended cylinder temps when driving normal. An EGT guage would be recommended so you know if things start to get too hot, though even that isn't instantaneous readout. A screw type is pretty much the opposite, slower spool up, but safer with no part-throttle boosting. This type is generally more accurate too.
The biggest disadvantage to all manual controllers is you can't adjust the boost on the fly. You have to make a pass, watch your boost guage, pull over, get out, adjust the controller, get back in, make another pass and check the guage again, and keep doing this till you get it right. Then if you want to turn it down cuz you're done racing and time to drive home, you have to start the process all over again. Come back to the track next weekend you gotta set it back to high boost. It's a pain in the ass. Some, like the TurboXS controller (I forget what it's called) allow you to switch between 2 different boost levels with the flip of a switch, one for low boost daily driving, and one for high boost racing. This is certainly a lot easier once it's set, but still the same old process to get it set, and it's not near the adjustability of an electronic one. Also, manual boost controllers can be affected by the weather conditions. You might set it during the afternoon to get ready for the race that night, then nightfall comes it could be off again, and you have to go through the same old deal again. The biggest advantage of manual boost controllers is they are cheap.
Electronic and electric boost controllers:
Electronic and electric mean the same thing when taken literally, but this is a catch phrase used to distinguish between 2 different types of electronic controllers. Actually I don't even know if this is a common phrase, or just local slang, but that's beside the point.
Electric boost controllers:
Electric boost controllers are a lot like manual boost controllers, but with a motor or solonoid to do the adjusting for you. You generally have a dial of some sort, and you need a boost guage of some kind too. You make a pass and watch the guage, if it's too much boost, just turn the dial down some, if it's not enough, turn it up some. No getting out and turning the little wrench hassle of the manual controller, and you can actually do it without pulling over and stopping every time if you have a long stretch of road to test on. Much easier. However, they are also affected by the weather problem the manual controllers have, although it's not nearly as big of a problem here because you can adjust it with a simple turn of a dial/push of a button. They come in 2 types, Solonoid and screw. The screw type is just a screw that opens and closes in the path of the air. This kind is more accurate, but less resposive as it may take a moment for the screw to turn to it's new position after you turn the knob. The solonoid type has a solonoid that opens and closes, letting more and less air through to the wastegate. This type is instant response, but generally less accurate.
Electronic "learning" boost controllers:
These are pretty much the same as regular electrics, but they have a built in boost guage and a computer that attempts to "learn" your cars boost characteristics so it can make all adjustments automatically. They can be time consuming to set as you need to make several passes to give them time to learn, but once they're programmed themselves everything else is a breeze. If you want 15 psi, just dial it to 15 psi and it does the rest, no watching the boost guage as you fine tune the dial. This type also compensates for the weather conditions automatically. However, they can be confused with cars that have boost creep or other strange boost characteristics, causing them not to perform up to par. They are also the most expensive type.
Both electric and electronic controllers usually come with other features you can't get on a manual, such as push button instant preset boost levels, integrated timing controllers, etc... This depends on the model.
Here is a test from several of the more popular controllers on the market to help see how they perform - http://www.arimport.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=490
Manual boost controllers:
Manual boost controllers are pretty basic. They raise the boost, but don't do anything else. They work if you're strapped for cash though. They come in 2 basic types, ball and spring, or screw. A ball and spring controller has a spring with a ball on the end, and once there is enough boost, it compresses the spring, opening the wastegate. The advantage to this type is it opens the wastegate instantly once boost is completely built, so the car will spool up faster than with a screw type and in the end be quicker at the same boost level. Even adding a ball and spring controller to a stock car, without raising the boost at all, can make it quicker because it spools faster, since the stock wastegate opens slowly a little at a time, and the full force of the exhaust isn't used to spool the turbo. The disadvantage to this type is it will be spooled more and boosting more during part throttle driving, and you may get higher than recommended cylinder temps when driving normal. An EGT guage would be recommended so you know if things start to get too hot, though even that isn't instantaneous readout. A screw type is pretty much the opposite, slower spool up, but safer with no part-throttle boosting. This type is generally more accurate too.
The biggest disadvantage to all manual controllers is you can't adjust the boost on the fly. You have to make a pass, watch your boost guage, pull over, get out, adjust the controller, get back in, make another pass and check the guage again, and keep doing this till you get it right. Then if you want to turn it down cuz you're done racing and time to drive home, you have to start the process all over again. Come back to the track next weekend you gotta set it back to high boost. It's a pain in the ass. Some, like the TurboXS controller (I forget what it's called) allow you to switch between 2 different boost levels with the flip of a switch, one for low boost daily driving, and one for high boost racing. This is certainly a lot easier once it's set, but still the same old process to get it set, and it's not near the adjustability of an electronic one. Also, manual boost controllers can be affected by the weather conditions. You might set it during the afternoon to get ready for the race that night, then nightfall comes it could be off again, and you have to go through the same old deal again. The biggest advantage of manual boost controllers is they are cheap.
Electronic and electric boost controllers:
Electronic and electric mean the same thing when taken literally, but this is a catch phrase used to distinguish between 2 different types of electronic controllers. Actually I don't even know if this is a common phrase, or just local slang, but that's beside the point.
Electric boost controllers:
Electric boost controllers are a lot like manual boost controllers, but with a motor or solonoid to do the adjusting for you. You generally have a dial of some sort, and you need a boost guage of some kind too. You make a pass and watch the guage, if it's too much boost, just turn the dial down some, if it's not enough, turn it up some. No getting out and turning the little wrench hassle of the manual controller, and you can actually do it without pulling over and stopping every time if you have a long stretch of road to test on. Much easier. However, they are also affected by the weather problem the manual controllers have, although it's not nearly as big of a problem here because you can adjust it with a simple turn of a dial/push of a button. They come in 2 types, Solonoid and screw. The screw type is just a screw that opens and closes in the path of the air. This kind is more accurate, but less resposive as it may take a moment for the screw to turn to it's new position after you turn the knob. The solonoid type has a solonoid that opens and closes, letting more and less air through to the wastegate. This type is instant response, but generally less accurate.
Electronic "learning" boost controllers:
These are pretty much the same as regular electrics, but they have a built in boost guage and a computer that attempts to "learn" your cars boost characteristics so it can make all adjustments automatically. They can be time consuming to set as you need to make several passes to give them time to learn, but once they're programmed themselves everything else is a breeze. If you want 15 psi, just dial it to 15 psi and it does the rest, no watching the boost guage as you fine tune the dial. This type also compensates for the weather conditions automatically. However, they can be confused with cars that have boost creep or other strange boost characteristics, causing them not to perform up to par. They are also the most expensive type.
Both electric and electronic controllers usually come with other features you can't get on a manual, such as push button instant preset boost levels, integrated timing controllers, etc... This depends on the model.
Here is a test from several of the more popular controllers on the market to help see how they perform - http://www.arimport.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=490
LjasonL
07-12-2004, 08:14 PM
Will "X" modification void my warranty?
Yes and no. Your warranty can not be completely "voided" due to modification. However, if your mod caused something to break, then the broken part will not be covered under warranty. The rest of the car is still under warranty though. For example, I'm running a nitrous kit on my car. My entire engine and drivetrain warranty is out the window. If I broke something like an axle, it would be said the extra power from the nitrous is what caused the axle to snap and it would not be covered. But if one of my windows broke or my speedometer stopped working or something else like that which has nothing to do with the nitrous happened, it could still be covered under warranty.
As the saying goes, "you gotta pay to play".
Yes and no. Your warranty can not be completely "voided" due to modification. However, if your mod caused something to break, then the broken part will not be covered under warranty. The rest of the car is still under warranty though. For example, I'm running a nitrous kit on my car. My entire engine and drivetrain warranty is out the window. If I broke something like an axle, it would be said the extra power from the nitrous is what caused the axle to snap and it would not be covered. But if one of my windows broke or my speedometer stopped working or something else like that which has nothing to do with the nitrous happened, it could still be covered under warranty.
As the saying goes, "you gotta pay to play".
LjasonL
10-18-2004, 01:46 AM
Which is better, the SOHC or DOHC 2.5RS?
In stock to medium modified vehicles, it's my opinion that the SOHC is a better motor. It makes more power earlier in the RPM range, and is more reliable since it lacks the infamous "head gasket failure" of the DOHC. In a heavily modded vehicle, however, the extra control of DOHC can be a big advantage. Here is a dyno comparison between a stock SOHC and a stock DOHC 2.5RS:
http://www.arimport.com/jastuff/SOHCvsDOHCdyno.JPG
Obviously by looking you can see the SOHC has better midrange torque and power, but the DOHC holds power to redline a little better.
A little background on this graph:
A little while back a group of us NESIC types got together for a dyno day at Adrenalin Motorsports in Massachusetts. I dyno'd my '97 Legacy 2.5GT 5-speed sedan in stock configuration (well, stock + K&N drop-in filter and synthetic fluids), and Marc Sawaya dyno'd his '00 2.5RS 5-speed also in stock configuration.
We all know that the SOHC is supposed to have better mid-range than the DOHC, and I wanted to see how true that was. So, I finally got around to reading the numbers off of my graph and off of Marc's graph to create a combined DOHC vs. SOHC graph. I did actually cheat a bit on my graph - the day that Marc dyno'd his car (and hit 104.x hp) my car dyno'd at 100.6hp or something like that. On a previous day, also in stock configuration, and on the same dyno, I had dyno'd at 104.x hp. Knowing that (theoretically) the peak power should be the same on the two engines, I used my graph from an earlier day so that the graphs would "match". Who knows, maybe in real life the SOHC cars actually do make a few more HP than the DOHC engines, as was indicated on the day we dyno'd at the same time. Or, perhaps the few extra HP that Marc's car laid to the rollers was due to the fact that my engine has twice (?) the mileage and hence is a bit tired? I dunno. I just figured for a "neater" comparison I'd use the graphs that had virtually matching peak power outputs.
In stock to medium modified vehicles, it's my opinion that the SOHC is a better motor. It makes more power earlier in the RPM range, and is more reliable since it lacks the infamous "head gasket failure" of the DOHC. In a heavily modded vehicle, however, the extra control of DOHC can be a big advantage. Here is a dyno comparison between a stock SOHC and a stock DOHC 2.5RS:
http://www.arimport.com/jastuff/SOHCvsDOHCdyno.JPG
Obviously by looking you can see the SOHC has better midrange torque and power, but the DOHC holds power to redline a little better.
A little background on this graph:
A little while back a group of us NESIC types got together for a dyno day at Adrenalin Motorsports in Massachusetts. I dyno'd my '97 Legacy 2.5GT 5-speed sedan in stock configuration (well, stock + K&N drop-in filter and synthetic fluids), and Marc Sawaya dyno'd his '00 2.5RS 5-speed also in stock configuration.
We all know that the SOHC is supposed to have better mid-range than the DOHC, and I wanted to see how true that was. So, I finally got around to reading the numbers off of my graph and off of Marc's graph to create a combined DOHC vs. SOHC graph. I did actually cheat a bit on my graph - the day that Marc dyno'd his car (and hit 104.x hp) my car dyno'd at 100.6hp or something like that. On a previous day, also in stock configuration, and on the same dyno, I had dyno'd at 104.x hp. Knowing that (theoretically) the peak power should be the same on the two engines, I used my graph from an earlier day so that the graphs would "match". Who knows, maybe in real life the SOHC cars actually do make a few more HP than the DOHC engines, as was indicated on the day we dyno'd at the same time. Or, perhaps the few extra HP that Marc's car laid to the rollers was due to the fact that my engine has twice (?) the mileage and hence is a bit tired? I dunno. I just figured for a "neater" comparison I'd use the graphs that had virtually matching peak power outputs.
LjasonL
11-04-2007, 03:05 PM
Swaybars
To deal with sway bars, you need to understand that everything is compromise, nothing you change on your car is wholly good, there will be a compromise of good effects and bad effects. If you know what the compromise is, you can make a more intelligent decision on what parts you want.
First, what is understeer and oversteer? It simply refers to the tendency of the front end to lose traction before the rear end (understeer) or vice versa. The technical term for this is TLLTD. Taken from another site:
TLLTD stands for Tire Lateral Load Transfer Distribution. While this term may sound complex, it simply measures the front-to-rear balance of how lateral load is transferred in a cornering maneuver and is commonly used to compare the rate of lateral traction loss between the front and rear tires. You probably understand this already as the concept of "understeer" and "oversteer."
If you're reducing oversteer, then by definition you're increasing understeer. I see people say they did something to decrease oversteer, then immediately add that they did this without increasing understeer. This is impossible, as they are just words for opposite values of TLLTD. You can visualize this by a number line with oversteer at the right and understeer at the left. Understeer is just negative oversteer. When this person 'reduced oversteer' they indeed added understeer, it's just that in this case that added understeer canceled out too much oversteer and brought them closer to neutral. I think the confusion here is a result of the 'understeer is a bad word and we don't want anything to do with it' mentality. Again, it's all a compromise.
Okay let's get to the point. Sway bars do three things:
1. Increase weight on outside tires
2. Reduce body roll which reduces camber change when cornering
3. Change front to rear weight distribution (changing oversteer and understeer)
I'll copy this from another site since they do a better job of explaining these effects clearly than I do:
Effect 1) is not a good thing for handling. The coefficient of friction for your tires decreases as more weight is applied. Read that twice to make sure you got it. If your car weighs 2000 lbs and 1000 is in front and 1000 in back (500 each corner), your cf might be .8 for illustration purposes. Your total grip in front is 500 * .8 + 500 * .8 which is 800. As you go into a turn, some of the weight in front transfers to the side so you may have 600 on one front corner and 400 on the other. However, at 600lbs, the cf may be only .7 and at 400, the cf may increase to .85. (Each tire has different values here.) Your total grip now is 600 * .7 + 400 * .85 which is 760. This is a decrease in total front grip. When you add stiffer sway bars, you increase the weight transfer to the outside which further decreases the cf for that outer tire and, therefore, for that end of the car.
Effect 2) is usually the primary reason for sway bars. When the body of the car rolls over, it takes the suspension with it. This causes the tires to ride on the outside edge of the tire and not get a flat contact patch. NSXs are very good in this area, but can still be improved (I suppose).
Effect 3) is neither a positive or negative absolutely. It depends on your car. If your car understeers, it may be due to effect 1) on your front suspension. Too much weight is transferred to the front outside tire which reduces its cf and may be causing it to break loose from grip. A way to prevent this is to increase roll resistance in the rear with a stiffer rear sway bar. The stiffer rear sway bar would resist body roll and apply more force to the outside rear tire instead of applying so much to the outside front tire. Obviously, you can go too far (too stiff in rear) which would transfer too much weight to the rear outside tire and cause it to decrease cf too much and eventually break loose.
So to make it short, the positive effect of sway bars are that they can reduce camber change due to body roll. The negative is a stiffer sway bar will decrease traction on the wheels it's applied to. And an effect that can be either positive or negative is they change the handling balance of the car. This is probably going to be your biggest concern when picking a bar. To put it simple, if you want to reduce understeer (change to more rear % TLLTD) then you can either add a bigger rear bar or a smaller front bar. Usually the bigger rear bar is preferable to a smaller front. The opposite is also true, if you want to reduce oversteer (more % front TLLTD) then you either add a bigger front bar or a smaller rear bar. Again, adding the bigger front bar is usually preferable.
For some reason there's a myth running around the Subaru community that this isn't the case - that adding a bigger front bar will reduce understeer some how. This of course does not agree with the physics of how sway bars work, but you don't have to take my word on it. Whiteline, one of the most respected manufacturers of sway bars for Subarus, had this to say:
As most factory vehicles are biased towards understeer, fitting of the larger rear swaybar will help in providing a more neutral characteristic in the handling at the limit. This is due to the increase in roll stiffness at the rear, which loads the rear wheels more unevenly and provides slightly less grip at the rear than previous.
At first this may sound sacrificial, however, as the rear end is resisting more of the roll, the front end resists less in proportion, leaving the front wheels more evenly loaded, therefore more available front end grip. In the end an increase in overall grip can be achieved by balancing the vehicle. A WRX or other front torque biased all wheel drive vehicle will benefit even more due to combined front end steering/traction demand.
...
The balance (and grip increase) of the car could also be achieved by reducing the front swaybar stiffness, however its roll stiffness would be reduced and roll camber would suffer. This would lead to large amounts of positive camber being gained on the outside wheels/tyres when cornering. This would result in a wheel/tyre that would not be at its optimal camber setting at the limit of handling.
A tidbit often pointed out is that the serious auto-x Subarus often use big front bars. Many misinterpret this as evidence that the bigger front bar really does reduce oversteer. The real reason this is done on serious race cars is because of something called motive traction, which we haven't discussed yet. When you put that big rear bar on your car to reduce understeer, the way it does this is by linking the two rear wheels together; as the outside corner is compressed in a turn, the bar rotates and compresses the inside tire too. If the effect is extreme enough, the inside rear tire will actually lift off the ground, and when you go to accelerate out of the corner, you'll just get wheelspin due to the lack of motive traction at the rear end. So what do you do? Add a bigger front bar to increase motive traction at the rear, and then you can accelerate out of the corner sooner. As you probably know by now, this comes at the price of more understeer bias. For the race cars, it's worth a little more understeer to be able to get on the power sooner coming out of a corner. Again, compromise...
So now that you know how it works, the next question is probably 'What will work best for me?' Well, that's not a simple question to answer. This has a great deal to do with the rest of your suspension setup (other factors that increase stiffness such as stiffer springs), your driving style, what you intend to do with the car, and just what feels best to you. You're going to be faster with a setup you feel more comfortable/confident in than a setup that has more overall grip but makes you nervous. Most of the time you actually want a bit of understeer bias, and not true 'neutral' handling that's often claimed to be the holy grail.
What do I use? Adjustable rear sway (22-24mm), stock front sway, STi front strut tops, front strut bar, and a set of springs meant for a sedan which, due to the extra 80 pounds in the back of a wagon, gives me a slightly stiffer rear spring rate than similar wagon-specific springs. This part wasn't really by design but just because nobody was making wagon-specific springs at the time I bought them. How does it feel? A bit of understeer on throttle with smooth lift-throttle oversteer. I do have that rear motive traction issue we discussed, but it's not an issue for me because I don't competitively race my car. This will only be an issue at the absolute limit, which you will almost never (or should almost never) reach on the street. I only know of one road where I can actually get that back inside tire spinning coming out of corners, and the car is AWD so I still have the front end pulling anyways. The balance is more important to me than the motive traction issue so I leave it be. If I were to try and competitively race the car I would add a bigger front sway to combat it; in fact, I've been thinking about adding a *slightly* bigger front bar to get quicker turn in at the expense of a little more understeer. Compromise...
I encourage you to read the articles I quoted, especially the first one which includes a controlled real-world test of sway bar effects on TLLTD.
http://www.teamscr.com/sway.html
http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Performance/swaystrutbars.htm
http://www.whiteline.com.au/default.asp?page=/faqswaybars.htm
To deal with sway bars, you need to understand that everything is compromise, nothing you change on your car is wholly good, there will be a compromise of good effects and bad effects. If you know what the compromise is, you can make a more intelligent decision on what parts you want.
First, what is understeer and oversteer? It simply refers to the tendency of the front end to lose traction before the rear end (understeer) or vice versa. The technical term for this is TLLTD. Taken from another site:
TLLTD stands for Tire Lateral Load Transfer Distribution. While this term may sound complex, it simply measures the front-to-rear balance of how lateral load is transferred in a cornering maneuver and is commonly used to compare the rate of lateral traction loss between the front and rear tires. You probably understand this already as the concept of "understeer" and "oversteer."
If you're reducing oversteer, then by definition you're increasing understeer. I see people say they did something to decrease oversteer, then immediately add that they did this without increasing understeer. This is impossible, as they are just words for opposite values of TLLTD. You can visualize this by a number line with oversteer at the right and understeer at the left. Understeer is just negative oversteer. When this person 'reduced oversteer' they indeed added understeer, it's just that in this case that added understeer canceled out too much oversteer and brought them closer to neutral. I think the confusion here is a result of the 'understeer is a bad word and we don't want anything to do with it' mentality. Again, it's all a compromise.
Okay let's get to the point. Sway bars do three things:
1. Increase weight on outside tires
2. Reduce body roll which reduces camber change when cornering
3. Change front to rear weight distribution (changing oversteer and understeer)
I'll copy this from another site since they do a better job of explaining these effects clearly than I do:
Effect 1) is not a good thing for handling. The coefficient of friction for your tires decreases as more weight is applied. Read that twice to make sure you got it. If your car weighs 2000 lbs and 1000 is in front and 1000 in back (500 each corner), your cf might be .8 for illustration purposes. Your total grip in front is 500 * .8 + 500 * .8 which is 800. As you go into a turn, some of the weight in front transfers to the side so you may have 600 on one front corner and 400 on the other. However, at 600lbs, the cf may be only .7 and at 400, the cf may increase to .85. (Each tire has different values here.) Your total grip now is 600 * .7 + 400 * .85 which is 760. This is a decrease in total front grip. When you add stiffer sway bars, you increase the weight transfer to the outside which further decreases the cf for that outer tire and, therefore, for that end of the car.
Effect 2) is usually the primary reason for sway bars. When the body of the car rolls over, it takes the suspension with it. This causes the tires to ride on the outside edge of the tire and not get a flat contact patch. NSXs are very good in this area, but can still be improved (I suppose).
Effect 3) is neither a positive or negative absolutely. It depends on your car. If your car understeers, it may be due to effect 1) on your front suspension. Too much weight is transferred to the front outside tire which reduces its cf and may be causing it to break loose from grip. A way to prevent this is to increase roll resistance in the rear with a stiffer rear sway bar. The stiffer rear sway bar would resist body roll and apply more force to the outside rear tire instead of applying so much to the outside front tire. Obviously, you can go too far (too stiff in rear) which would transfer too much weight to the rear outside tire and cause it to decrease cf too much and eventually break loose.
So to make it short, the positive effect of sway bars are that they can reduce camber change due to body roll. The negative is a stiffer sway bar will decrease traction on the wheels it's applied to. And an effect that can be either positive or negative is they change the handling balance of the car. This is probably going to be your biggest concern when picking a bar. To put it simple, if you want to reduce understeer (change to more rear % TLLTD) then you can either add a bigger rear bar or a smaller front bar. Usually the bigger rear bar is preferable to a smaller front. The opposite is also true, if you want to reduce oversteer (more % front TLLTD) then you either add a bigger front bar or a smaller rear bar. Again, adding the bigger front bar is usually preferable.
For some reason there's a myth running around the Subaru community that this isn't the case - that adding a bigger front bar will reduce understeer some how. This of course does not agree with the physics of how sway bars work, but you don't have to take my word on it. Whiteline, one of the most respected manufacturers of sway bars for Subarus, had this to say:
As most factory vehicles are biased towards understeer, fitting of the larger rear swaybar will help in providing a more neutral characteristic in the handling at the limit. This is due to the increase in roll stiffness at the rear, which loads the rear wheels more unevenly and provides slightly less grip at the rear than previous.
At first this may sound sacrificial, however, as the rear end is resisting more of the roll, the front end resists less in proportion, leaving the front wheels more evenly loaded, therefore more available front end grip. In the end an increase in overall grip can be achieved by balancing the vehicle. A WRX or other front torque biased all wheel drive vehicle will benefit even more due to combined front end steering/traction demand.
...
The balance (and grip increase) of the car could also be achieved by reducing the front swaybar stiffness, however its roll stiffness would be reduced and roll camber would suffer. This would lead to large amounts of positive camber being gained on the outside wheels/tyres when cornering. This would result in a wheel/tyre that would not be at its optimal camber setting at the limit of handling.
A tidbit often pointed out is that the serious auto-x Subarus often use big front bars. Many misinterpret this as evidence that the bigger front bar really does reduce oversteer. The real reason this is done on serious race cars is because of something called motive traction, which we haven't discussed yet. When you put that big rear bar on your car to reduce understeer, the way it does this is by linking the two rear wheels together; as the outside corner is compressed in a turn, the bar rotates and compresses the inside tire too. If the effect is extreme enough, the inside rear tire will actually lift off the ground, and when you go to accelerate out of the corner, you'll just get wheelspin due to the lack of motive traction at the rear end. So what do you do? Add a bigger front bar to increase motive traction at the rear, and then you can accelerate out of the corner sooner. As you probably know by now, this comes at the price of more understeer bias. For the race cars, it's worth a little more understeer to be able to get on the power sooner coming out of a corner. Again, compromise...
So now that you know how it works, the next question is probably 'What will work best for me?' Well, that's not a simple question to answer. This has a great deal to do with the rest of your suspension setup (other factors that increase stiffness such as stiffer springs), your driving style, what you intend to do with the car, and just what feels best to you. You're going to be faster with a setup you feel more comfortable/confident in than a setup that has more overall grip but makes you nervous. Most of the time you actually want a bit of understeer bias, and not true 'neutral' handling that's often claimed to be the holy grail.
What do I use? Adjustable rear sway (22-24mm), stock front sway, STi front strut tops, front strut bar, and a set of springs meant for a sedan which, due to the extra 80 pounds in the back of a wagon, gives me a slightly stiffer rear spring rate than similar wagon-specific springs. This part wasn't really by design but just because nobody was making wagon-specific springs at the time I bought them. How does it feel? A bit of understeer on throttle with smooth lift-throttle oversteer. I do have that rear motive traction issue we discussed, but it's not an issue for me because I don't competitively race my car. This will only be an issue at the absolute limit, which you will almost never (or should almost never) reach on the street. I only know of one road where I can actually get that back inside tire spinning coming out of corners, and the car is AWD so I still have the front end pulling anyways. The balance is more important to me than the motive traction issue so I leave it be. If I were to try and competitively race the car I would add a bigger front sway to combat it; in fact, I've been thinking about adding a *slightly* bigger front bar to get quicker turn in at the expense of a little more understeer. Compromise...
I encourage you to read the articles I quoted, especially the first one which includes a controlled real-world test of sway bar effects on TLLTD.
http://www.teamscr.com/sway.html
http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Performance/swaystrutbars.htm
http://www.whiteline.com.au/default.asp?page=/faqswaybars.htm
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