92 eagle talon.. cold starts

My 92 eagle talon has 2.2 engine (I think) and non-turbo.. When I first start it after it sets for 8 or more hours , it skips and runs like crap.. almost like its running out of gas. Its got bosch plat+4 sparkplugs and new wires installed about 15k miles ago. I pulled them out and checked them and theres no signs of extreme wear. Once the car warms up ...after say 15 or 20 minutes, its fine. The engine light doesn't come on at all (its not blown also). Recenlty the head gasket blowed about 20k miles ago and the head was serviced. Also I get smoke and soot coming from the exhaust. Maybe that is from it skipping so badly. I think maybe my problem is the valve seals but with the head being serviced not long ago, maybe its something else. I'm new to working on an impoer like this.. Any links to more info on the car would be very helpful. If you got any ideas, and how to check them, psot and let me know


tia

Tia;
This is just a guess, but it think it might be the coolant temperature sensor...it's located on the thermostat housing just below the thermostat itself. This sensor lets the ECM (electronic control module) know what temperature the engine is. The ECM, in turn, will adjust the air fuel ratio and idle speed accordingly. There is also an air temperature sensor in the airfilter housing, but it wouldn't be that, as your incoming air temperature is the same regardless of whether your car is warm or cold.

The coolant tempertaure sensor isn't very expensive, I put one in my car a couple of years ago, but I don't remember how much it was. I'm sure it was less than $20 though.

Mark

fuel injectors maybe..

I changed the plugs and wires today. Still the same thing. How do I check that sensor to make sure its functioning properly? I checked the wire going to it and it not broken or damaged in any way. But if theres a way for me to check the sensor itself, please let me know. I know how to read a ohmmeter, voltmeter, etc..
I'm going to check the fuel rail later today by removing it and making sure all injectors are working and in order. I don't think its the injectors as when it warms up it gives no problems at all. And when its cold it runs like crap.

tia

Tia;
You check it with an ohmeter, putting the leads on the two tabs on the sensor. At 50-80 degrees F it should read between 2,200-2,700 ohms. You then warm up your engine to full operating temperature and check again. It should read 280-350 ohms when your coolant is between 180-200 degrees F.

Mark

checked when its at normal operationg temperature and it is 165 ohms, then when its cold its about 50,000 ohms. Could that be my problem? It wasn't stone cold when I checked it last but the resistance keeps on going up the colder it gets. If you think this is what I need please let me know and I'll pick one up and put it in.

tia

Tia;
Wow, those are some wild readings. It seems the sensor is doing what it should be, that is, it is acting as a variable resistor at different temperatures, but those are some extreme swings.

I do still think it is the coolant temperature sensor, it just seems to make sense. I just checked on line at Express Auto parts, they list an AC Delco sensor for $14.76. You can probably find it for about the same price at Pep Boys.

Mark

I replaced the coolant temperature sensor. Let me make sure.. The pic below is the sensor I replaced.. maybe its not the right one.

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/134053P1010001-med.jpg
It still does the same thing. I also changed oill air filter fuel filter , oil. Coolant was good in it too. Maybe my problem is somewhere else. I also noticed another sensor on the thermostat housing about the one I replaced. It has two vacuum lines that go from there to the air intake. It s looks as tho its been leaking. What does this control? Sorry about so many questions, but even tho I can drive the car, I need to get it fixed before it causes more problems.

tia

Hi Tia,

Funny enough, I had the same problem last year and it was my thermostat. I replaced the whole thing (and flushed my coolant system to be sure), and I haven't had the problem since <knocking on wood...>

Newbie (to this forum) Paula

'92 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

v3rtikal;
Nice photo! Yes, that's the coolant temperature sensor. I think I told you it was just below the thermostat, and that was incorrect. It's the temperature sending unit that's under the thermostat, the two are pretty easy to tell apart though, the sensor has two terminals, the sending unit only has one. I'm really sorry that replacing it didn't correct the problem, I really did think that was the cause.

That other sensor you see on the thermostat housing with the vacuum lines attached is a thermo vacuum valve. It is linked to the EGR valve. According to the Haynes manual, if you apply a vacuum pump to the valve on either of it's ports it should hold vacuum when the engine is warm, but allow vacuum through the valve when the engine is cold. I don't really understand that, I would think it would be the opposite. While I don't know if this valve could cause the problem, it certainly is easy enough to check it, and the fact that it is leaking further warrants it.

Good luck

Mark

Hey, don't feel bad, I was about ready to tear into the motor! lol

Actually since it wasn't reading the normal specs, it was prolly about to go bad, I'd rather go ahead and replace it if its not right. I'll check the vacuum sensor tommorow and change out the thermostat, and flush the system, can't remember the last time it was flushed. I'll let ya know how it goes.

tia

ok, well I changed the thermostat, the thermo control valve, and flushed the coolant. Still no change. I also removed the spark plug wires and made sure each one was firing and not going dead at some points.
I pulled the air hose going into the intake, and spayed cleaner in it, to make suer the butterfly wasn't sticking. But all my efforts come up empty. Any more suggestions?

tia

try checking your tps (throttle positioning sensor)
its located around the throttle body if you have a chiltons it will tell you how to test it

I checked the tps and it was good. I also pulled the tb off today and cleaned it up very good, just to make sure. Still the same thing. I also pulled the ecm out and checked for leaking caps. From what I've read, its a common problem with these cars after a few years. All the caps were good and not leaking any electolyte, there was a suspect diode near the caps that looked a little burnt, I replaced it even tho it checked good. Once putting the ecm back in the car, It didn't change anything. I'm running out of ideas.. The good part of the whole situation is that I'm learning a lot of info on the car, things that would hav enever crossed my mind before as potential problems or to beef up the car in any way. I was planning on adding a turbo to it, If I can find a donor car on the cheap, but right now I'd just like to get it running right

I have a 91 Talon. The one thing I have found is that platinum plugs don't work well in these engines. I had al kinds of problems. I put NGK's in and it ran like a top.

if u figure out how to fix it send me an email [email protected] i have a 92 talon 2L nt with the same problem im gonna check some of the stuff you guys said though so thanxs

ps i also posted the same question in the eclipse forum since its the same engine i haven't gotten any replys yet
:banghead: