13B Timing Problems??

Okay, so I'm confused here. I am planing on buying an RX7 GTU body for cheap. But before that could all happen, I need first a motor. Over the weekend, I found a 13B non-Turbo and had went over to look at it. However, the motor started up, but the guy says that the timing is off. I'm hoping to fix this problem soon and throw it in the car, but I've never dealt with Rotary motors before, so I'm a little skeptical about this but put a deposite on it to hold for me. I'll need all your help possible. I remember the guy twisting the distributor left and right. I would assume that doing so would adjust the timing on a rotary as to fussing with cam gears and cranks on a cylinder motor. Please help me out as much as possible. Would love someone to direct me to a manual online or simply give me instructions here. Thanks!
:screwy: :banghead:
-Monee

ok well i thik that the timing is a proble. Because you are right, twisting the distributor will change the timing.

Heres a link to a shop manual.LINK (http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/index.htm)

I hope I dont smell a scam. How was the car idling? Was it shaking a lot. We call that the death shake. I would ask for him to do a comprssion test before you make a commitment on it. You can use a run of the mill piston engine guage just remove the schrader valve. When he cranks the engine you should see 3 solid bumps on the guage. Actually it will look more like a seires of bumps. If there is a major fluctuation at on bump the engine is bad. Or, if the compression is lower than 70-80 PSI its had it too. Be careful. if this engine is in a running car I would ask to see a Mazda Compression test.

Also, timing is EXTREMELY simple, its even outlined in the haynes manual. But for future reference, its not a distributor, its a CRANK ANGLE SENSOR.

Jarrett

89Turbo944 -- Wow, you saved me a whole lot of time. I was having just a hard time trying to find a simple manual or just any info's on where I may be able to locate some instructions to fix the timing problem. I'm still checking out the link right about now. Thanks a lot man!

Jims5543 -- If that's the case, how much compression should it hold? Well, let me walk you thru the day I was at the Junk. Okay so like I said, the guy simply stated that the car only needed some timing adjustments. For some reason he poured some oil thru to the throttle body before attempting to start up. He said the car needs some lubrication etc... anyhow, it took a few long seconds to start up, but once it did it was idling pretty okay and the engine did not seem to have the "Death Shake" as you indicated. He then shut it off and played with the distributor, twisting it left and right. In some positions, as it started it sound pretty bad (Supposedly way out of timing) while some sound okay and seem to be pretty strong or what ever he was saying. Well, even if it's no good, tell me if this is a good deal. It's only $300 (I talked him down from $600) which includes the 13B motor, the 5 sp tranny, all the wire harnesses (even those bolted onto the chasis) and the ECU. Tell me that isn't an irresistable offer.

J-Rat -- Yes, I understand. Isn't it both the Crank Angle Sensor and the Distributor that plays a role in fixing the timing issue? Atleast that was what my understanding was when I had a conversation over the phone with a friend who I was going to buy the car (Not Engine) off of had told me. Said something about a damper too! He's more than happy to help me out on that once I purchased the motor. But thanks for the knowledge!!

$300 is worth it for all that stuff so it might be worth the gamble on the engine. I hesitate to mention this. There is a little trick where you add Automatic Tranny Fluid (ATF) into the engine through the spark plug holes and let it sit for 24+ hours. One started a lot of the carbon and crap will burn off and the engine will be cleaner in side.

Possible downside is that I am told it can harm some seals inside the engine. Although I personally dont think so I feel obligated to mention this.

I have heard of many cases where people bought RX-7's for $100-$500 did the ATF trick and had a perfectly running car.

As far as the timing thing is concerned. It fairly easy to reset the timing on a RX-7. Quite similar to how you do it on a piston engine.

Something just sounds wrong to me thats all. It might be fine.

Jims5543 -- Thanks, I thought so too. I just couldn't pass up $300. At first this was what the guy quoted me: $300 for the engine, $150 for the tranny, $100 for the wire harnesses and somethinge else which I forgot for the ECU. However, I don't know what he was thinking, but when I asked for him to crack me a deal on the whole thing mentioned, he said $300 for everything. *Scratches Head* I don't get it... loLz... who wouldn't pay $300 for it huh?? HaHa! I don't want to say he's a dummy, but what if there was something else wrong with the engine. Oh wells, it's worth something to work on even if there is a problem.

Oh yeah, I have one quick question (For Anyone): When the guy started up the engine there were quite a whole lot of white smoke coming from within the bottom (Cut Downpipe) and within seconds it was everywhere and unbareable to breath. Has the gasoline smell. Explain this!

Jims5543 -- About the ATF being poured into the spark plug holes. Just about how much should there be in each?? Half way? And how often must this procedure be performed??

Wouldn't that only clean 1 side of the rotor(s)?

DevoutWankelist -- Wait... I thought the rotors spins and rotates??

Well, I'm new to the rotary engines so I'm still learning here!

The ATF trick is one I DONT RECOMMEND. You got about a 50/50 chance of either making the motor better, or ruining it. Why? Because if you knock a big enough chunk of carbon off in the process, you will carbon lock your motor. Also, the ATF trick is a last ditch effort to safe an ailing motor. Its not a procedure that neesds to be repeated. I will not pour ATF in any rotary, instead, I use MMO, or will do water injection.

ALSO, everyone here should know that white smoke on startup is a sign of a worn motor that is on its way OUT. DO NOT BUY THAT MOTOR!


Jarrett

"I will not pour ATF in any rotary, instead, I use MMO, or will do water injection." J-Rat

What is MMO?

I have done the ATF trick to every RX-7 I have bought. I resurrected a dead one with this trick. It would not start. ATF's it and let it sit for 5 days. It started up on the first try. I drove it for about 20 minutes changed the plugs then drove it 70 miles home. As far as I know the engine is still running.

I did the ATF to my TII when I bought it too.

Jim Downing puts ATF into his 3 and 4 Rotor engines after they have cooled down after a race. My friend say him doing it and inquired and he said it helps to keep them fresh.

DO a Google search on Jim Downing and see who he is.

I have heard of only 1 case in the last 3 years that I have been aware of the ATF trick where a guys engine went kaput after it. I know dozens of people who have done it with great success.

It has been argued a lot that it is bad. I have had good success w/ it. But there are those that say no. I say do some research on it and decide for yourself. If its an already ailing motor what do you have to loose?
A thread w/ details and same argumement.
http://www.nopistons.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=65&t=2451

"I will not pour ATF in any rotary, instead, I use MMO, or will do water injection." J-Rat

What is MMO?

Marvel Mystery Oil.

If its an already ailing motor what do you have to loose?


Believe me, I have done TONS of research, and I have also used ATF to revive dead motors. Maybe I should clarify my statement. I would NOT put ATF into a motor unless its A LAST DITCH EFFORT. I know some people that just slam ATF in thier motors for the fun of it. I think that water injecting cleans better, thats been proven.

Jarrett

J-Rat -- In a reply you stated above quoted "everyone here should know that white smoke on startup is a sign of a worn motor that is on its way OUT. DO NOT BUY THAT MOTOR!"

So I am a little concern about it now since I have already put a deposite into it. How about rebuilding the motor? What would have to go to fix that smoking problem?

J-Rat -- In a reply you stated above quoted "everyone here should know that white smoke on startup is a sign of a worn motor that is on its way OUT. DO NOT BUY THAT MOTOR!"

So I am a little concern about it now since I have already put a deposite into it. How about rebuilding the motor? What would have to go to fix that smoking problem?


Okay, I am sure I will get flamed or something for this, but here it is anyways....

A normal rotary motor MIGHT give out a small amount of smoke on initial startup, then it should IMMEDIATELY go away. My theory is that the initial smoke is just residual oil from the oil injection being burned off. Any PERSISTENT smoking, that doesnt go away like IMMEDIATELY (I MEAN LIKE within 30 seconds). I dont care if its green, black, mauve, whatever! The white smoke you described didnt go away immediately, and indicates to me that the seals are heading south, and not coming back. How thick was the smoke? How long did it persist?

Oh yeah, I have one quick question (For Anyone): When the guy started up the engine there were quite a whole lot of white smoke coming from within the bottom (Cut Downpipe) and within seconds it was everywhere and unbareable to breath. Has the gasoline smell. Explain this!


Unless that motor sat for years, this is NOT a normal occurance. Did he keep running it? Did the smoke go away? If not I would RUN away from this motor..FAST

Jarrett

Okay so, this is what had happened. The smoke seemed to be sorta thick, but you can still see thru them, but the fumes that was given off, I mean it was horrible. The gas smell was too much to bare with, I had to walk away for a little while. But to answer you question, Yes the guy did say that the engine sat for a little while (1 1/2 Year) at the pound. Said to have been hit from the rear, so people started to come strip away the parts. So would you still consider this to be normal?

I am sure that with that cut downpipe, the smell was like the stench of a thousand lawn mowers. Can you get him to run it longer to see if the smoke clears up?

I don't know if it would be possible. I mean yeah I guess it would be, but the smoke may cause the whole neighborhood their air supply... hahaha! But yeah, I'll him tonight to do so and see if they do clear up.