Give 'em hell.

People may have the right to buy what they want, and do with their vehicle as they please - but they never have the right to take away your safety!!!
Check your state laws on bumper height requirements, and give whoever dissrepects your rights hell - report 'em.
I've heard about police taking out their measuring tapes and checking headlight and bumper heights on modded cars - but never once have I seen one check the bumper heights on lifted trucks or SUVs, they're pissing your safety away because they don't feel your life is worth their time. :mad:

These assholes raise their vehicles up without any regard for the safety of others, or the damage that can be caused if they're in an accident. If the vehicle inspection people in your state are doing their jobs, these jerks won't be able to drive them on the road. Yet they still slip by, and they still don't give a damn about anybody else's property or safety.

I'm so fed up with this bull crap now. I'm going to start a list of every lifted vehicle I see. In my state, no variation from the original bumper height is allowed on lifted vehicle, yet practically nobody respects others enough to modify their bumpers back to stock height after lifting their vehicles. It's disgrace so many of them get away with this. In other states the laws are different, but you usually don't need a tape measure to tell which ones are higher than allowed. So protect yourself and others, even if all that will happen is the scumbag gets a ticket and a small fine. If you live in a respectable state they may also require the owner to bring the vehicle to the DMV and have the bumper height checked to make sure it is within regulation (like when they check cars which were reported for emitting excessive smoke)

I'm not going to tollerate it any more, and there's no reason you should have to put up with this crap either.

YEah no shit... Now that i think aobut it, with my car.. half of those damn bumpers STOCK come up to my window.. so if they t-bone me, i get a face full of glass....and bumper. No thanks.

fuck th GOVERNEMTN

Here's my Jeep, please report me cool guy!!! :thefinger

Image removed by Jimster- it's taking up the whole fucking page! next time downsize it

Here's my Jeep, please report me cool guy!!! :thefinger


Anyone ever told you taht you are a tosser and your Jeep is a hunk 'o crap? I'm sure they have, but I'm adding my name to that list

But SUV are so much safer...I mean look in the snow they handle so much better due to AWD...and I know this for a fact from a very good source....the person who hit me after spining out of control

here are the details
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=159426&highlight=cougar+expedition



and i agree fully with you 2stroke....we cannot import stuff from germany or japan because they are suposedly not crash worthy(and we all know how bad those german and japanse cars are) so they care if you drive a car that will not protect you in a wreck but nobody cares if you drive a car unsafe to others

Anyone ever told you taht you are a tosser and your Jeep is a hunk 'o crap? I'm sure they have, but I'm adding my name to that list



the jeep aint bad, just in the need of a clean.
anyway, stick to the topic and stop whoring up the place.

as for the topic, I agree :D

the jeep aint bad, just in the need of a clean.
anyway, stick to the topic and stop whoring up the place.

as for the topic, I agree :D
OI! I'm the moderator I decide where the thread goes :thefinger


But on the topic.........Yes, it is about time there was an SUV tax or quota- the things are dangerous, inconsiderate and lethal- and to top it off- not even that safe for the occupants themselves.........In the case of the Yank Tank ones- I support you 100% 2stroke

Jimster you rock my world.

Man, Im agreeing here, imagine me getting hit by something with an illegal height bumper.. as Steel said, I'd get a face full of bumper and glass.

I'll have to disagree with you that they never get checked for their heights. I know several people who have been pulled over and the cops pulled out the measuring tape. And at the truck show I attended one year, the cops were such dicks they were pulling over everybody. From cars to trucks to mearsure.

Anyone ever told you taht you are a tosser and your Jeep is a hunk 'o crap? I'm sure they have, but I'm adding my name to that list

That jeep is a pos, looks like 10lbs of shit...in a 5lb bag

I'll have to disagree with you that they never get checked for their heights. I know several people who have been pulled over and the cops pulled out the measuring tape. And at the truck show I attended one year, the cops were such dicks they were pulling over everybody. From cars to trucks to mearsure.

Hey, at least the Police in your area were doing their job to protect people from inconsiderate assholes. It saddens me that some people can have such dissrespect for others property, and even worse, other's safety. It may be an inconvenient, but it's for a good reason.

i like notorious moggs avatar

Anyone ever told you taht you are a tosser and your Jeep is a hunk 'o crap? I'm sure they have, but I'm adding my name to that list

Actually no, they never have. But I would love to hear your expert opinion on how it's a hunk 'o crap. But that's an old picture, let me update you so you know all the facts. It's no longer street legal. Engine is a 318 Magnum, temporary tranmission is an AX-15, has a 1/4 elliptical rear suspension with a Dana 60 axle, a 3/4 elliptical front suspension with a Dana 60 axle, an Atlas II transfer case, 44" super swamper boggers, trimmed fenders, and a custom roll cage. I know that's a lot of technical information for an accountant to handle but you seem smart, I'm sure you can figure it out. Actually I think I'll just post a picture of another Jeep that looks almost the same as mine. If you still think it's a hunk 'o crap then you obviously don't know your head from your ass. :loser:

http://www.bluetorchfab.com/images/Project_Vehicles/Twisted_YJ/DD13.jpg

Whoa, when the hell did this become the Jeep picture gallery? If you want to debate whether or not it's piece of crap, there's plenty of room over in the Jeep forums for that. :)

Whoa, when the hell did this become the Jeep picture gallery? If you want to debate whether or not it's piece of crap, there's plenty of room over in the Jeep forums for that. :)

Fair enough. Just trying to set things straight with ignorant people. :smile:

But what started your whole rant on lifted vehicles. I have never heard of a lifted vehicle killing or injuring another person due to its increased height.

It can injure and kill (more from a side impact, in a rear or front impact, there is less difference) but the main point is that when the bumpers override, they cause far more damage then they would if they meet at the same height in an accident, causing much higher repair bills for the other vehicle, and it's a total disregard, and lack of respect for other people's property.

it's a total disregard, and lack of respect for other people's property.

And so is driving to fast, drunk driving, driving with bad brakes, driving a mechanically flawed car, driving a car that's too low so when it hits a bump shit flies off the car, talking on the cell phone, etc. You get my point. There are many more people doing the things listed above then there are lifted trucks.

Nobody said drunk driving was any better. And few would say speeding all the time is a good thing either.
Of course if the drunk driver were driving a lifted vehicle, he'd cause even more damage than if he were driving a regular car...

Of course if the drunk driver were driving a lifted vehicle, he'd cause even more damage than if he were driving a regular car...

But we don't do that cuzz we're responsible people! :biggrin:

yeah, but the fact remains that bumpers are there for a reason, and NOT to *bump* my head when you t-bone me. It's bad enough that your headlights blind the fuck out of me when you're driving anywhere near me.. unless you use your highbeams, because they actaully go OVER my damn car.

Well another thing is that people aren't perpetually drunk - somebody is not always drunk when they go driving, however the bumpers are always high, they never change until somebody gets enough sense in their empty head that maybe other people's property and safety is important too.

Well another thing is that people aren't perpetually drunk - somebody is not always drunk when they go driving, however the bumpers are always high, they never change until somebody gets enough sense in their empty head that maybe other people's property and safety is important too.

Maybe they should ban semis too. I know they serve a better purpose than a lifted truck but they're even more dangerous in a collision.

The difference is that a shipping company needs a large vehicle to ship large quanities of goods. You don't need 30" high bumpers to drive down the street (hell, it's an off-road vehicle, so why is it even on the street?)

The difference is that a shipping company needs a large vehicle to ship large quanities of goods. You don't need 30" high bumpers to drive down the street (hell, it's an off-road vehicle, so why is it even on the street?)

Yes, I'm aware that semis are big for a good reason. But everyones argument is that lifted trucks are too dangerous in a collision. Semis are even worse in a collision. They don't exactly have crumple zones or even anything to soften the blow to the hit vehicle. I think you're more likely to see a lowered vehicle with a body kit hit a bump and have shit fly off the car than you are seeing a lifted truck t-bone another car. I have NEVER heard of a somebody being killed by a lifted trucks bumper going through the window.

actually if you look at the semi's fron bumpers...they are low and will not overide your own bumpers...and in the back they have bars to prevent you from diving under them if you're dumb enough to rear end one

they are bad in accidents due to their large mass...but that mass serves a purpose...they are meant to carry stuff and they are neccesary for our society


also the semi drivers are profesionals with more experience and miles gained in one year that most of us in 10 years...they know how to handle them

Totally disagree. I keep my towbar attached on the bumper of my Land Cruiser just for the purpose of protecting the nose of it. When a woman in a Nissan Quest Minivan backed into me it cost her $1700 and two weeks at a bodyshop and cost me 5 minutes with a sledge hammer and a $3 can of black spraypaint to fix. The only reason it even did that much damage to the beast is because she had a tow hitch, (which needed to be replaced!) that hit the bumper. Can the benefits get any more obvious? Don't wanna die? Steer clear of big trucks, stop driving tin/plastic cars, or wear a helmet and a neck brace while driving. If they're breaking the law in your state, by all means report them! It's a free country and despite the EPAs efforts, people can buy SUVs to their hearts content if they want to and can afford to. I DO think that they should have harder driving tests... most drivers couldn't drive a goddamn golf cart straight.

i agree with 2strokebloke

very good argument..why dont u go to dmv and argue about this shit

justacruiser So you're in total disagreement. You believe people should be able to violate other's rights, simply because they want to?
Well I don't.
However, when they're breaking the law, they're breaking the law - at least and most importantly you agree with that.

I don't agree with people breaking the law. Its there for a reason and if you want to report people, do so. However, It is also within my rights, if I live in a state that permits it, to lift my vehicle if I want to. How is it violating your rights if I want to lift a truck I own? Or put a really beefy bumper on it? Don't think it's always the person in the big bad truck thats the evil bastard, when I was driving my Land Cruiser to High school there were plenty of times that I had to either wait or risk bashing someones windshield or hood in because the dumb fucks in their tiny little Hondas would park their goddamn car up under the ass end of mine (parallel parking). Happened all the time.

Who cares? Quit whining!

"Who cares? Quit whining!"

Just stating my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.

I completely agree with everything Justacruiser has said.
I also agree with everyone elses opinion, yes it could harm others, but so could every single vehicle on the road, just because it's bumper sits 2ft off the ground makes it a threat to your presonal well being? what about all the people in the world that have lowered there vehicle? That is just as bad as lifting, a vehicle, some of these lowered vehicles could end up wedged under a normal sized SUV or truck.. causeing the truck to flip over. If lifted trucks are dangerous, then i would assume that you have looked at the bumpers on transports, large delivery trucks etc.. many of these vehicles have bumpers that would easily find there way into the windows of a normal vehicle.

I agree with what you are saying about the laws, if it is illegal, make sure the law is enforced, :iceslolan

But at the same time, think about what you are doing, you are being extremely bias in what you are saying, :disappoin lifted trucks are possing a threat to peoples lifes. what about all these hot rod guys running strait pipes? what about all the import guys with extremely loud oversized mufflers? what about the vehicles that have rusted out bodies, frames, mufflers, no brake lines, bald tires past the wear bars?


Now please, dont take this to be a personal attack to anyone, and please dont feel I am being rude ( i probably am... but meh) and I am not trying to be offensive in any way, I am simply expressing my opinion, and I hope you will understand where I am coming from, and respect my opinion as I have yours. :smile:

Devon,

protect the hammers from the eggs

You people obviously have no respect for your fellow man, these days there are too many people who are only in it for themselves. Selfish, jerks who do not care how their actions effect others.

what about all these hot rod guys running strait pipes?
I don't know if that's how it works on whatever planet you live on, but here on earth, we don't run into eachother with exhaust systems - we have bumpers
what about all the import guys with extremely loud oversized mufflers?
Once again, the muffler is usually not a load bearing member of a vehicle in an accident. Would it have hurt to at least try and stay semi-on topic?

what about the vehicles that have rusted out bodies, frames, mufflers, no brake lines, bald tires past the wear bars?
Find me one time in this thread where I said running without brake lines is o.k. - it's common sense not to, just like it's common sense (or rather uncommon it seems) to respect other's property and well-being.

I don't get why anybody would fight this. Is it really so hard to have you bumper at a proper height? If you've just spent your time raising your vehicle, it seems that adjusting your bumpers to a legal height would be within your capabilities, unless you truthfully are a self absorbed asshole, who doesn't give a damn about anybody else.

Running with bumpers too high, is really no different than going into a mall and just swinging a baseball bat all around you. You may not hit somebody, and then again you may really hurt somebody - of course if you had a brain cell count above ten, you wouldn't be doing something so stupid in the first place.

"You people obviously have no respect for your fellow man, these days there are too many people who are only in it for themselves. Selfish, jerks who do not care how their actions effect others."

How my actions affect others? Like lifting a truck makes you the WORST criminal in the world because it's OBVIOUS that the only reason for doing so is to go kill people with it and laugh maniacally while you do it... If I want to lift my truck and it's legal for me to do it, I'm gonna do it. If it makes me an asshole in the eyes of people who don't like big vehicles, (for some reason), then shucky darn, thats just too bad. I'm not about to lose out on my vehicles capabilities just because of the off chance that someone in a car made by mattel decides to plaster their brains all over my front diff.

Everyone says that there are risks of flipping over in SUVs due to them being top heavy, it's an accepted risk obviously because people keep buying them.

Well guess what? If you buy small cars, you will probably DIE or end up MAIMED if you get into an accident with someone who wanted some space when they went carshopping! It's your choice to buy the small car if you want to. You knew the risks, live with them.

ok Exhaust systems, such as strait pipes, wreck the ozone layer, and polute your lungs will all sorts of crap, which could kill you,

If you spent time and money putting a lift on your truck of SUV, then you are obviously trying to gain ground clearence, so why would you want to lower your bumper just to lose the ground clearence you have just gained? and why do you insist on calling people selfish jerks, you yourself are being a selfish jerk by trying to force people that have spent money on sumthing they enjoy, to alter their vehicle to your specifications so you will feel "safer" in your vehicle,

If your so paranoid about getting hit by a bumper, ride a bicycle, walk, or take a bus, to your desired destination.

Oh and I was just curious, How many accidents have you been, or no people who have been in, with there vehicle, and another vehicle specificly with a "raised bumper" ?

I think you just proved my point about people being self absorbed...
And once again you're lacking logic in your argument, if it's illegal it's illegal, no matter what reason you have for rasing your vehicle, secondly, the bumpers are at the ends, they can be at a legal height without reducing your aproach and departure angles significantly, (you'd probably never run into an obstacle that would need such a sharp angle of aproach anyway) So when it come down to it, yes it is selfish, and yes it is a lack of respect for others.
Also, nobody said that lifting a vehicle is the WORST crime out there, but it goes to show just how little people care for anybody else these days...

Ok, Im not trying to come off as a prick, im just expressing my opinion and im just using the exhaust, tires and such as an example, there are much better things to be pissed off about, other than the height of somebody elses bumper, I do see where you are coming from, if your that pissed off about it, do something about it, where i come from, most of my friends/family/everybody else has owned a pickup truck or SUV, with big suspension, simply because its a neccesity for where I live, we get all kinds of snow, and when it rains it rains big, which means dirt roads are mud, and a honda civic doesnt get to far in a foot of mud does it?

and driving a small vehicle, you are one of the biggest risks on the road, simply because a small vehicle is harder to see, and poses more of a risk than somebodys front bumper.




One other thing I'd like to bring up is completely off topic ( but according to you im already off topic right?:thefinger)

I blame it all on vehicle manufacturers, if vehicls were made the same way they were 20 years ago we wouldnt have these kind of problems, trucks where the same size as cars, and vehicles were all the same... you could run into a tree at 80mph, and get a crinkle in your bumper and a small dent in your hood.

Well I'm glad you kind of understand. I'm not upset that they use a big vehicle, or that it's lifted. It's just mind boggling however, that they wouldn't even doing something so simple as putting their bumper at a height that's legal for the sake of other people's property. If people would sometimes think, and care about others, and know that it's worth their time to show some respect, the world would be a far better place.

"I think you just proved my point about people being self absorbed..."

Like this entire thread, (started by you because you don't like something that other people like to do), isn't all about being self absorbed?

"And once again you're lacking logic in your argument, if it's illegal it's illegal"

"If I want to lift my truck and it's legal for me to do it" I believe is what I said...

"So when it come down to it, yes it is selfish, and yes it is a lack of respect for others."

When someone lifts their truck, it's for better performance. Most people aren't thinking, "Oh, maybe I shouldn't lift my vehicle so that people in small cars wont get hurt", when they have it installed.

Is it selfish for people to lower their cars and risk congesting traffic while they have their vehicle pushed out of or off of the obstacle it gets stuck on?

I blame it all on vehicle manufacturers, if vehicls were made the same way they were 20 years ago we wouldnt have these kind of problems, trucks where the same size as cars, and vehicles were all the same... you could run into a tree at 80mph, and get a crinkle in your bumper and a small dent in your hood.


LOL......do you have any basic knowledge of physics?

Ok, Im not trying to come off as a prick, im just expressing my opinion and im just using the exhaust, tires and such as an example, there are much better things to be pissed off about, other than the height of somebody elses bumper, I do see where you are coming from, if your that pissed off about it, do something about it, where i come from, most of my friends/family/everybody else has owned a pickup truck or SUV, with big suspension, simply because its a neccesity for where I live, we get all kinds of snow, and when it rains it rains big, which means dirt roads are mud, and a honda civic doesnt get to far in a foot of mud does it?

and driving a small vehicle, you are one of the biggest risks on the road, simply because a small vehicle is harder to see, and poses more of a risk than somebodys front bumper.




One other thing I'd like to bring up is completely off topic ( but according to you im already off topic right?:thefinger)

I blame it all on vehicle manufacturers, if vehicls were made the same way they were 20 years ago we wouldnt have these kind of problems, trucks where the same size as cars, and vehicles were all the same... you could run into a tree at 80mph, and get a crinkle in your bumper and a small dent in your hood.
errr....The last paragraph shows blatant ignorance- cars are a HELL of a lot safer these days than 20 years ago- how else do we explain decreasing road tolls with rising population??? The problem with cars that don't get very damaged when running intosomething is that the occupants absorb the impac- where as modern- sasily damagable cars have crumple zones which allow the car to absord the impact- We are LUCKY that they don't build 'em like they used to

LOL......do you have any basic knowledge of physics?

No I dont :grinno: , but I do own a 79 Ford F100 Custom, with 38's and a lift, and I have hit numerous trees, and I can assure you that that is all that has ever happend, sure my truck looks like it was in a crash up derby, but it still runs, and I have never been hurt.

justacruiser not everything I have written has been specifically directed at you. So stop acting like it was.
Like this entire thread, (started by you because you don't like something that other people like to do), isn't all about being self absorbed?
Gee, who'd have thought that caring about others rights was being self absorbed?
Is it selfish for people to lower their cars and risk congesting traffic while they have their vehicle pushed out of or off of the obstacle it gets stuck on?
Sure it is. I've never seen it happen though.

But do you still think that it'd be too much to ask to put bumpers at a proper height? Is there something you have against people who might give a care about what could happen to somebody else? Lowering a bumper back down to stock height is not rocket science, and I'm pretty sure it's a hell of lot easier than lifting the vehicle was in the first place. So why not? Is the unlikely chance that you'll ever have to have such a high bumper to get over an obstacle that reqires such a steep angle of aproach - more important to people than the chance that they could get into an accident, and not only cause a larger ammount of damage, but possibly increase the risk of injury of another fellow motorist?

I don't think so. And if somebody thinks that running over rocks for fun is more important than another mans property and safety, then they have their priorities seriously out of order.

"justacruiser not everything I have written has been specifically directed at you. So stop acting like it was."

Oops, sorry bout that.

"Sure it is. I've never seen it happen though."

Actually, neither have I. :) Just used it as an example when I couldn't think of another.

"But do you still think that it'd be too much to ask to put bumpers at a proper height?"

Only if there was an easy way to remove the stops before going off road or something.

"Is there something you have against people who might give a care about what could happen to somebody else?"

No, it's pretty much that your argument has been used before, only by the anti-SUV crowd instead of a concerned citizen. I don't like the anti-SUV Nazis very much because most of their arguments are pointless and idiotic, it's just one more thing people like that they want to regulate to death or take away. Now I'm not necessarily into SUVs, but if they start harping on something as stupid as what kind of car you prefer, what's next? Smoking cigarettes!? (Heavy sarcasm there)

I have hit numerous trees

That doesn't suprise me. Shocking.

...they [bumpers] can be at a legal height without reducing your aproach and departure angles significantly, (you'd probably never run into an obstacle that would need such a sharp angle of aproach anyway)...
The only way to increase an approach angle with out lifting the vehicle is to remove any frame/body parts in front of the front tires. I dont know about you, but my truck has this thing called a radiator, a fan and the frame sticking out which i would rather not adjust/ remove.
I could have used a better approach angle the last two time i went off roading. Because my truck is stock i gave up to avoid damage.

I could have used a better approach angle the last two time i went off roading. Because my truck is stock i gave up to avoid damage.

It's about time that some off-road enthusiasts came to terms with the fact that their hobby vehicles are not suitable to share the public highways with ordinary road vehichles,any more than Formula one cars,,rail dragsters,or any other single-purpose vehicles.The SUV is a bastard son of a bad marriage between a military vehicle and a family station wagon.Most of them are of little use for either purpose.The Hummer is a classic example of a vehicle that should never have been certified for use as personal transport.

If you want to lift your 4x4 for better clearance off-road,fine.But if you want to use it on the road,be aware that the stock item has manydesign features that are built in specifically for road use and simply jacking up the vehicle for better amusement value will throw most of them out of spec.I'm sure that a few of the performance car enthusiasts would love to drive on big fat Hoosier slicks,but there are laws in place thatprevent them from doing so for their own safety.There comes a point in every motorsport where you have to admit that you have to accept the sacrifice of dual purpose for greater efficiency.If you can't afford a sporting vehicleand a separate,road legal vehicle for transport,then you have a responsibility to make sure that your dual-purpose vehicle meets minimum legel road usage requirements.


And another point.....jacking up a SUV or truck raises its centre of gravity,making it even more susceptible to roll-over accidents.Doesn't matter what height your bumpers are when they're hanging upside down in a ditch.

i conpletelly agree with you naki....i wish i could run without that restrictive cat or on slicks on the street...but i don't

how about an evo7? its used for offroading, and its like an ordinary car.

how about an evo7? its used for offroading, and its like an ordinary car.



not the offroading that trucks do....also the evo you buy in a dealership its in tarmac trim its not really meant for rally

not the offroading that trucks do....also the evo you buy in a dealership its in tarmac trim its not really meant for rally
Well- that's the case in the US- in Japan- there is the RAlly-going RS and the tarmac GSR- At least I think that's how the trims go......

Well- that's the case in the US- in Japan- there is the RAlly-going RS and the tarmac GSR- At least I think that's how the trims go......


i though the RS was just a striped down version of the normal evo at least thats what it will be when it comes in the US....

but i don't really know much of the Japanese models....its cool if they have one already prepped for rally

"And another point.....jacking up a SUV or truck raises its centre of gravity,making it even more susceptible to roll-over accidents.Doesn't matter what height your bumpers are when they're hanging upside down in a ditch."

I swear I've read this statement before... maybe it was in a newspaper or magazine. Yeah, somehow I don't see too many people road racing their big trucks dude. If they're stupid enough to think that they can hang with a car or perform like one on the road, then they deserve what they get.

Don't drive your off road vehicle on the road? Every state has guidelines that require certain features on a vehicle in order for it to be street legal. If an offroad vehicle has them, then it wouldn't matter if the thing was a 4-wheel steering tube-framed rock crawler, just so long as it meets the requirements.

As for the Hummers, I don't think they're bad vehicles or anything, I just tend to think that they're just a tad wide for the average road here, so I'll agree a little on that one.

"And another point.....jacking up a SUV or truck raises its centre of gravity,making it even more susceptible to roll-over accidents.Doesn't matter what height your bumpers are when they're hanging upside down in a ditch."

I swear I've read this statement before... maybe it was in a newspaper or magazine. Yeah, somehow I don't see too many people road racing their big trucks dude. If they're stupid enough to think that they can hang with a car or perform like one on the road, then they deserve what they get.




My local SUV wrecker is heavily stocked with late-model rolled vehicles,mainly Landcruisers,Pajeros and Bighorns.

These armoured handbag carriers are largely derived from the LandRover concept,rather than the Jeep,and have a very high centre of gravity for their track.The original LandRover concept was a dual purpose vehicle - a light commercial vehicle that could double as an off-road tractor for towing farm implements.It didn't have power steering,the brakes were atrocious,and the oversize wheels were fitted to improve clearance and traction on the farm.The only reason that it survived as a road vehicle was that it was incredibly low-geared,and had a deafening top speed of around 50mph.Power steering and turbocharged monster engines may well have increased the speed of these outhouses on wheels,but there is no way of changing the physics.

It's bizarre that an ugly panelvan-come-tractor could somehow morph into a big shiny status symbol .A high percentage of the SUV's imported into New Zealand secondhand have never been driven off the tarseal.The idea of using a 2 ton 5 litre turbo-diesel battering ram for a trip to the supermarket defies every financial logic,but if that's what you want to do,it's a free country.It doesn't exactly make sense to use a 500hp 4 wheel drive coupe either,but if that's your road vehicle,that's what you use.If you feel that sitting a foot higher than every other road user,blocking their line of vision and blinding them with your headlights somehow makes it safer for your twenty minute crawl to drop the kids off at school,by all means,go for it.But the fact remains,you are just as likely to end up in a colision as any other motorist,but up to three times more likely to roll your vehicle.

The only way to increase an approach angle with out lifting the vehicle is to remove any frame/body parts in front of the front tires. I dont know about you, but my truck has this thing called a radiator, a fan and the frame sticking out which i would rather not adjust/ remove.

We're talking about bumpers, which (normally) are in front of the radiator and engine...

As for the Hummer being certified - it is in my opinion too wide, most people who own them don't know how to drive them well enough to keep in their lane, and shouldn't be driving them, and secondly when parked on the street they're usually too wide for the parking lane, and form a hazard. Since the Hummer was popular with those who have too much money, and too little common sense, I'm surprised how few people use 18-wheelers as their personal vehicles...

Since the Hummer was popular with those who have too much money, and too little common sense, I'm surprised how few people use 18-wheelers as their personal vehicles...

When Kenworth starts making off-the-shelf jack-up kits and supplying off-road tyres,Arnie will be there........ :evillol:

Very well put 'Naki- it's interesting to take a look at some of todays offroad vehicles- pretty much all of them have Independent rear Suspension- as opposed to the Traditional Rigid axle- in fact Jeep, GM and Land Rover are the only ones I can think of that are still fitting them to SUV's!!!!

There are also some SUV's with psychotic offroad ability- these being the Pajero, VW Touareg, Porsche Cayenne, Cherokee/Grand Cherokee, Land cruiser and the smaller Landcruiser Prado- that you find at the local supermarke car park- as opposed to the farm/forest- what is all this about????

WHO THE HELL needs a fucking high, big and inefficient thing like that to do an Urban Run???? What is wrong with a Passat?? or a Peugeot/Renault/Citroen mid-sizer- they are about the same price- and we can get more in our Passat than what we could in the Old Pajero- that we used to have- in fact the Passat is better in every single way- faster, quiter, MUCH more refined, better built and cost more-or-less the same- give or take $2000.

Need even more space though??? Volvo station wagon- the uber stylish V70 is a far more sensible proposition than a damned SUV- and of course safer- or buy a mid-sized Renault/Peugeot/Citroen/Volkswagen estate!

Let's not forget that there are also SUV's that literally have as much offorad ability as a Honda Civic- like the Toyota Highlander, RAV4, Honda CRV, Volvo XC90, BMW X5 and Mitsubishi Airtrek- these are cars that literally waste space- due to having no actual purpose- other than penis envy.......

"It's bizarre that an ugly panelvan-come-tractor could somehow morph into a big shiny status symbol .A high percentage of the SUV's imported into New Zealand secondhand have never been driven off the tarseal.The idea of using a 2 ton 5 litre turbo-diesel battering ram for a trip to the supermarket defies every financial logic,but if that's what you want to do,it's a free country.It doesn't exactly make sense to use a 500hp 4 wheel drive coupe either,but if that's your road vehicle,that's what you use.If you feel that sitting a foot higher than every other road user,blocking their line of vision and blinding them with your headlights somehow makes it safer for your twenty minute crawl to drop the kids off at school,by all means,go for it.But the fact remains,you are just as likely to end up in a colision as any other motorist,but up to three times more likely to roll your vehicle."

..........For once I'm speechless Taranaki. That blurb is EXACTLY what I think! Wow... I actually agree with you on something.... :)

"When Kenworth starts making off-the-shelf jack-up kits and supplying off-road tyres,Arnie will be there........"

Do you get the TV show Monster Garage? Check this out...

http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/monstergarage/monsters/monsters_zoom2.html

It may have been a Peterbilt, but still... :)

People keep buying SUV's because of the price tag in the 'keeping up with the Jones' game. In order to be a 'good, middle class, independent' mother you must have an SUV. The bigger it is, the more status I guess.