Notchback plan

Alright, here's the plan i have in mind (and mostly on paper) for my 86. if you don't like it, you can, uh, do something nasty to yourself :naughty:

Motor:
351W, 4.060" bore, 4" stroke, total 408 c.i.d.
eagle crank+rods, probe SRS pistons
target compression 7:1 (for blower)
jet-hot headers
edelbrock Victor heads (exact type TBA)
manley stainless valvetrain
probe rail rockers
ford racing chrome valvecovers
fel-pro gaskets
csi electric water pump
ati damper
t56 (viper), spec stage 3 clutch, aluminum flywheel
twinscrew blower, brand TBA
fluidyne radiator
MSD series 6 ignition, pro-billet distributor
Holley SEFI fuel delivery
target TQ: 500-600

Body:
saleen body kit
new glass: 100% tint on rear window, QG, 20% on windows, windshield
custom spoiler, designed by yours truly
color: very dark green w/black trim & mouldings
clear lights in front, rear lights TBA
steeda suspension (5-link in rear, QA1 drag coilovers, drag k-member)
wheels TBA

Interior:
dash from '90 LX
power everything
no AC
6 or 8 point rollcage (for strip)
autometer guages
hidden switch panel for motor accessories
color: light tan



change the blower pulley and up the gas octane, and this bad boy will run circles around anything on the street. a lot of nitty-gritty engine parts are yet to be determined, but they will soon enough. i expect to have the project mostly complete within a year, as i don't make all that much money. updates as i figure stuff out :grinno:

Sounds okay,but....this is what I'm suggesting for a lot of my customers;


Wait till next year and buy a 2003 Cobra,used.They'll be (relatively)cheap once the 2005 Mustang comes out.Dudes will dump their SN95s by the dozen.Big supply+lowered demand= cheap thrills

Your plan,if implemented,with a pro doing all the wrenching...go buy a Cobra cause you're looking at a BIG wad of cash to spend on that '86

I guess I'll have to hurt myself but things i'd change.

8.1 compression for a twin screw blower. I'm not a big fan of probe any more just remachined TRW slugs. They good but for the price Je, Ross, Wiseco I'd rather have. Valves SS comp Ferreras instead of Manley. Jesel Rail Rockers the only ones I would ever buy. The Steeda 5-link is a great rear-end suspension set-up but not for that motor.

well, you guys have a point about some things. many of my engine mods are tentative at best, including the valvetrain. however, i am very confident in my suspension setup, which will include, by the way, a 5-lug conversion. regardless of motor, i want the car to handle well in corners as well as launch straight. the control arms i will use will easily facilitate this (steeda billet aluminum weight jackers). as long as they work with the 5-link, which they should. the thing's also getting an 8.8 in. rear end. by the way, any suggestions as to a good twin-screw blower? kenne bell doesn't make one for my application. i want one that will replace the intake manifold itself, and be intercoolable. any suggestions would be much appreciated. thanks!

I hope you have a super wad of cash for all those mods. I like vbrpete's idea about the 03 cobra. That way you have a loan instead of paying in cash. I would love to do that, but I'm too young and broke.

03 cobras are cool and all... but i like my little notchback =) and besides, this is an extended project, not a quick build up. i'm only a college student, after all =)

Is this going to see the street?

What boost level are you looking at?

Do you think 60 over is good?

Its a pretty good wish list:)

Is this going to see the street?

What boost level are you looking at?

Do you think 60 over is good?

Its a pretty good wish list:)
I know .60 over on a 302 isn't a great idea, but I think .60 over on a 351 should be ok.

I think I would rather build something like that instead of buying an 03 Cobra too. There's just something about building a car to suits your needs, rather then buying a car aet to someone else's needs.

It sounds pretty good to me, but a blown, stroked 351 will probably put out a bit too much power for the 8.8" rear end, and you may have to opt for a 9".
It will deffinately put out too much for anything less than a doug nash modified 5 speed, or perhaps X2C's new super Tremec that can take 9 second runs. most cars running that kind of power use an AOD.
7:1 is also a little low, 9:1 should be ok unless you have some huge blower on there.
Weind makes a blower like you are talking about, that incorporates the intake manifold. Although, I don't know of any positive displacement blowers with intercooler capabilities, but I may be wrong.
good luck man, the 351 is a fun motor.

A .060 over 351 block and a 4" crank gives you a 414, a .030 over block and the 4" crank gives you a 408. I would never run a stock block of any kind (except maybe a boss 302 block) .060 over with boost, or .060 over period. It's just asking for trouble. With that being said I think you need to think about a more realistic motor. To get a 414 down to 7:1 compression with a stock thickness headgasket and even heads with a bigass chamber like 72CC vic jr's you would need a 60CC piston dish, which is never going to happen. The largest dish in an off the shelf piston made for a 408 is ross' 36CC dished piston, which gives you approx. 8.2:1 compression with 72CC victor heads. So far nobody makes a twin screw blower for windsors big enough to feed a 408, and even if they did the car would not go anywhere. 10 pounds of boost from a big twin screw and that 408 would be making 700+ torque to the wheels just off idle, a driveability nightmare. Go with a 383 stroker kit and a novi2K, less stroke means you won't make as much low end torque, and it will make a boatload of power with the novi. And about the drivetrain, you're on crack if you don't think a T56 or an 8.8 can handle this much power. A rebuilt T56 with a mcleod street twin and an 8.8 with c-clip eliminators, a girdle, 31 spline axles and a new eaton will take that power handily.

Not even a Boss would I go 60 over. An small block Ford, 60 over your asking for trouble. That is my take on it. You guys do what you want, but not me.

Thing is, what is the car intended for.

I will say, that everything boosted331 posted, I believe the same way, except for the Boss comment;)

thanks for clearing things up about the bore. i'll leave it at .030 over, that's what it's currently at. overall tho, motor doesn't come till later, i gotta get it running first. it's currently got the stock 4-banger, which is a piece of shit. i'm using one from a '90 LX, which is injected. then i can have my days of driving it around, beating it up, and fixing the body (light front end damage, moron before me hit a tree)

also, anybody know if i can run pipes out the back with the steeda 5-link? otherwise, i'll just stick with my side-exhaust plan. also, here's a question... anybody have a suggestion regarding mufflers? this system will have no cats, of course. also, best headers for this combination? target TQ, no more than 500. gotta keep the streetability. as for the application, a badass steet car that will spank the many and various ricers in this area =)

With a 408. You can achieve 500lbs of torque w/out forced induction.

Side exhaust will have to be the way you go.

Muffler: Borla, Magna, or Dynomax. Use straight through design. Not the chambered mufflers.

i like the idea of gettin the 03 cobra too, because it will require less time, less maintance and probably save some gas too ;), but do what you want cuz afterall it is your car.

target TQ, no more than 500. gotta keep the streetability. as for the application, a badass steet car that will spank the many and various ricers in this area =)

You don't want to make more than 500 ft-lbs but you're thinking of going with a kenne bell on a 408? You could build a N/A 408 to put 500 torque to the wheels on pump gas.

The .60 or .30 over arguemnet doesn't matter to me cause there is no way I would build this motor on a non-FMS or equivalent block. So a FMS block going .60 over is no big deal.

GTStang,

What do you mean by that last post? I am not quit getting at its meaning?

Well there was some arguement as too wether going .60 or .30 on the block for the motor he was thinking about building was wrong. For what he was talking about and the hp levels he would produce I would be calling up Ford Racing or Dart for an aftermarket block cause that is the only thing that will last. On those blocks the design changes you can go .60 over and then they are still extremely strong. So to me there arguement isn't necessary

It comes down to how deep your pocket book is.

I think a well seasone 351W should be able to handle 500lbs of power for a long time. Like you said though, any time you increase your engine power, the engine is on borrowed time.

When will it let go? Its only as strong as the weakest link, of course. I love pointing out the obvious :p

Yea but what he was talking about would make 500+ with 7 cylinders. Also when you talk stroke this, victors that, shaft-mounted rockers. Your either a dreamer or money isn't a factor.

ok. the T56 is rated for 450ft. lbs. and he was talking about a blown and stroked 351 which would be WAY more than 450.
as for the 8.8, sure it can PROBABLY take that kind of power, but why chance it when a 9" swap is so cheap and with a 9 in the back, you KNOW it can handle the power.
I still say a built automatic is the way to go if you have that kind of power. it's going to be way cheaper in the long run, just make sure to get a good tranny cooler.

Right now, I am thinking dreamer stage. With a strong possibility of money is not a factor in the future:)

Agreed,

If the engine was built as first posted, the auto would be the way to go, but things, and mind set change.

ok. the T56 is rated for 450ft. lbs. and he was talking about a blown and stroked 351 which would be WAY more than 450.

Lots of Vipers and Camaros are putting 800+ to the tires with upgraded T56's, there are even a few vipers doing over 1000 to the ground with the stock trans, they are more than strong enough.

as for the 8.8, sure it can PROBABLY take that kind of power, but why chance it when a 9" swap is so cheap and with a 9 in the back, you KNOW it can handle the power.

An 8.8 can take the power, no question. Best example I can think of is look at NMRA renegade, they're going 9 flats at 150 so you know the drivetrain takes a beating, they're allowed to run any rear end they want and most of them stick to an 8.8. A 9" swap will NOT be cheaper than throwing in some 31 spline axles, c-clip elims and a new LSD into your 8.8. Not to mention a 9" is a lot heavier, and takes more power to turn from increased frictional losses.



...

ok. the T56 is rated for 450ft. lbs. and he was talking about a blown and stroked 351 which would be WAY more than 450.
as for the 8.8, sure it can PROBABLY take that kind of power, but why chance it when a 9" swap is so cheap and with a 9 in the back, you KNOW it can handle the power.
I still say a built automatic is the way to go if you have that kind of power. it's going to be way cheaper in the long run, just make sure to get a good tranny cooler.



i agree with the 9inch rear end swap can u tell me then nescary hard-ware to make the swap possible?