2004 GTO - What do you think?

What do you think of the new 2004 Pontiac GTO? Although it is Australian, it is truer to the original than the current Chevy Malibu or Impala will ever be. Still, is it that much better than the old Camaro / Firebird? What do you think?

Well I didn't care for it to much originally. However, I recently watched the Austrailian 24hrs Highlights. After seeing the 2 holdens come in 1,2 and pushing hard all the way to the finish I was sold. I still have one one real complaint for the new GTO, the name.

Well I didn't care for it to much originally. However, I recently watched the Austrailian 24hrs Highlights. After seeing the 2 holdens come in 1,2 and pushing hard all the way to the finish I was sold. I still have one one real complaint for the new GTO, the name.
Post a picture

Could somebody post a picture of it, I haven't even seen it yet.

Here is a great article on it at edmunds.com:


http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/pontiac/gto/100369148/roadtestarticle.html%3FarticleId%3D100917&tid%3Dearthlink.....1.*

Interesting observation that the 2004 GTO doesn't say Pontiac anywhere on the exterior - just like the last Oldsmobiles. Hope that isn't a sign of things to come.

Interesting observation that the 2004 GTO doesn't say Pontiac anywhere on the exterior - just like the last Oldsmobiles. Hope that isn't a sign of things to come.

You are right. Now I'm Scared. Darn!

fellas,

Being here in Oz I can tell ya the new GTO from the Manaro platform is going to be a sweet ass ride.

Its the same hp as the Camaro and the Firechicken but just imagine a more refined ride. I'll tell you it drives freaking great...
It like one of those cars you drive and dont realize your doing 90.
Is it better or worse than the Firechicken and Camaro??? I just say its different. I like them all.

Guys get a chance look at the HSV stuff the GTO here is 285KW which is 380 hp not bad for a car out of the box.

As far as the name I must agree with blue02r6, they could have chosen a different one, it looks way too much like a Grand-Am, but longer. The GTO should never be forced to look like anything but a GTO, if their going to call it GTO it needs it's own personallity. Like I say just a little more creativity guys.http://hp-car.com/images/04gto-1.jpg

Did U Mean To Start A New Thread

Wait till 2007. The GTOs will be redesigned using a different platform, and built in the States. As for the '04, '05, and '06, they will be rather boring but look for more musclular touches to be added in the next 2 years.

I am merging this thread with the existing 2004 GTO thread.

I wish they took kind of a similar approach as Ford with the 2005 Mustang. I like how it has the 60's muscle car look to it (unlike the current Mustang), yet is also kind of futuristic and sporty looking. I really don't like how they keep the muscle car names, and make the cars look like something your grandma might be driving. I'm glad ford is going back to the old Muscle car look, and I hope chevy and pontiac do this with the Monte Carlo, GTO, etc, etc.

Have to agree with dcatkin (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/member.php?u=118036) on this. Looks waaay too much like a Grand Prix!

Well, considering the original Pontiac GTO was just a dressed up Tempest that hauled @ss, I'd say that looking like the Grand Prix doesn't hurt the modern interpretation.

In fact, when you line up the GTO with its adversaries in the class (Mazda RX-8, Infiniti G35 coupe, BMW 330Ci, Chrysler Crossfire, Mercedes Benz SLK320) you see that it's quite distinctive and attractive versus the others.

I think you naysayers are putting too much emphasis on "different" and too little emphasis on "attractive".

Remember the styling direction Pontiac was taking before Bob Lutz decided to strip the cladding and build the GTO.
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/large/414-2.jpg

Should this be the GTO? I think not.

They're just using the name to sell the car. I think it sucks.

What do you think of the new 2004 Pontiac GTO? Although it is Australian, it is truer to the original than the current Chevy Malibu or Impala will ever be. Still, is it that much better than the old Camaro / Firebird? What do you think?


i like it it just should not be called a GTO, cause its not, its more of a Bimmer M3 then a Muscle car

I think that before you build a new car and call it a GTO, you need to rethink what the GTO was and what it stood for. The GTO of yesteryear inspired fear in those who would challenge it, and was what put Pontiac into the muscle car seen, this thing that they call a GTO looks like an over glorified Grand-AM, and that in my eyes does not compare in any way to the real thing. C'Mon guys if your going to build a GTO then think about it and make it a real GTO.

David C. Atkin

http://hp-car.com

Umm, GTO didn't put Pontiac on the muscle car scene. GTO invented the muscle car scene.

Jim Wangers and John Z. Delorean were messing around in the R&D department at Pontiac in 1963, building the 1964 Tempest. That was the year the Tempest was becoming a more traditional economy car, as GM was moving the Buick/Olds/Pontiac economy siblings away from rear mounted transaxles and aluminum V8's. It was Delorean who noticed that the the 326ci V8 going into the Tempest had the same bolt spacing and engine mounts as the 389ci engine used as the base motor for the fullsize cars. One ridiculously easy engine swap later, the two guys had the neatest hot rod in the whole department.

Through a little creative arm bending, Delorean convinced the brass that the 389ci engine, with some luxury options and an uprated suspension, should become an option package and that it would be a hit with teens who missed the Super Duty cars (like the 421SD Catalinas). The brass thought that they wouldn't sell 10,000 of the cars (though history proved that wrong). Wangers and Delorean gave the option package the name of the hottest sports car at the time, the then undefeated Ferrari 250GTO.

The GTO didn't become its own car in sales literature until 1965. And from then on out, the GTO became a more luxurious and refined version of the muscle car. The boy racer stuff was left to hoodscoop wearing Dodges and spoiler sporting Chevys. GTO was upmarket. It was the muscle car you could drive to the country club while still having enough punch to give the hot rodders a hassle. It wasn't until the Judge series came out that GTO fought back with the boy racer cars, wearing cartoonish colors and a large tail spoiler.

So, before you start crying that the new GTO looks like an economy car or that it doesn't inspire fear like the old one did, put down your rose colored glasses and take a look at the real history of the car. GM is run by a true car guy now, who's fighting against 30 years of corporate beancounting and poor R&D. He's picking and choosing his battles, and the battle he chose was to just get the car to the states and sell a couple to prove that people still want V8's and rear wheel drive. If this was the new Grand Am, you all would be salivating. But you put three letters stolen from Ferrari on the car (Mitsubishi did the same thing on their tribute to Ferrari, you know. But because Yanks would've considered it sacrilege to put GTO on a Mitsubishi because "That's Pontiac's!", they called it 3000GT) and all of a sudden it's not enough.

Hypocrites, naysayers, and whiners. That's what I think of people who complain about the 2004 GTO. You've waited 32 years for Pontiac to build an affordable, four seat, rwd, sport coupe with a powerful V8 and a stout transmission that would take the fight to all the imported cars. This is it. This is a car that can chew through Infiniti G35's and spit out Chrysler Crossfires. This is a car that will hang with a BMW 330ci in the corners and then blow by it in the straights. What do you people want? A hoodscoop? Is that what all the out and out BITCHING is about? Go down to the Pep Boys with all the ricers and buy a fiberglass one. They're self adhesive.

The GTO is back. Long live the GTO.

Umm, GTO didn't put Pontiac on the muscle car scene. GTO invented the muscle car scene.

Jim Wangers and John Z. Delorean were messing around in the R&D department at Pontiac in 1963, building the 1964 Tempest. That was the year the Tempest was becoming a more traditional economy car, as GM was moving the Buick/Olds/Pontiac economy siblings away from rear mounted transaxles and aluminum V8's. It was Delorean who noticed that the the 326ci V8 going into the Tempest had the same bolt spacing and engine mounts as the 389ci engine used as the base motor for the fullsize cars. One ridiculously easy engine swap later, the two guys had the neatest hot rod in the whole department.

Through a little creative arm bending, Delorean convinced the brass that the 389ci engine, with some luxury options and an uprated suspension, should become an option package and that it would be a hit with teens who missed the Super Duty cars (like the 421SD Catalinas). The brass thought that they wouldn't sell 10,000 of the cars (though history proved that wrong). Wangers and Delorean gave the option package the name of the hottest sports car at the time, the then undefeated Ferrari 250GTO.

The GTO didn't become its own car in sales literature until 1965. And from then on out, the GTO became a more luxurious and refined version of the muscle car. The boy racer stuff was left to hoodscoop wearing Dodges and spoiler sporting Chevys. GTO was upmarket. It was the muscle car you could drive to the country club while still having enough punch to give the hot rodders a hassle. It wasn't until the Judge series came out that GTO fought back with the boy racer cars, wearing cartoonish colors and a large tail spoiler.

So, before you start crying that the new GTO looks like an economy car or that it doesn't inspire fear like the old one did, put down your rose colored glasses and take a look at the real history of the car. GM is run by a true car guy now, who's fighting against 30 years of corporate beancounting and poor R&D. He's picking and choosing his battles, and the battle he chose was to just get the car to the states and sell a couple to prove that people still want V8's and rear wheel drive. If this was the new Grand Am, you all would be salivating. But you put three letters stolen from Ferrari on the car (Mitsubishi did the same thing on their tribute to Ferrari, you know. But because Yanks would've considered it sacrilege to put GTO on a Mitsubishi because "That's Pontiac's!", they called it 3000GT) and all of a sudden it's not enough.

Hypocrites, naysayers, and whiners. That's what I think of people who complain about the 2004 GTO. You've waited 32 years for Pontiac to build an affordable, four seat, rwd, sport coupe with a powerful V8 and a stout transmission that would take the fight to all the imported cars. This is it. This is a car that can chew through Infiniti G35's and spit out Chrysler Crossfires. This is a car that will hang with a BMW 330ci in the corners and then blow by it in the straights. What do you people want? A hoodscoop? Is that what all the out and out BITCHING is about? Go down to the Pep Boys with all the ricers and buy a fiberglass one. They're self adhesive.

The GTO is back. Long live the GTO.

Well geez guy, thanks for the info, and I realize that the GTO was a spin off from the tempest. But it was Pontiac's first real muscle car, and no, it's not a hood scoop what I want. Just a little creativity, I loved the old GTO's and what thay were, and I do respect the new one for what it's done on the track, although I could care less if it has four seats or not.

I'm not a rice boy either, I've been building muscle cars for 15-18 years, and owned a number of shops, so I do know a little bit about muscle cars. All I'm saying is let's make sure the GTO stays a GTO. I wasn't bitching at all, I just answered a question, and that was what do I think of the new GTO. As you know I do have the right to think as I want too about this subject.

If you would acctually read what I posted you would possibly udnerstand where I was coming form. :banghead:

Saw a news report on the 2004 GTO the other day. They were interviewing a GTO fan and he said that the new one wasn't a GTO because it didn't have hood scoops. He said all GTOs had them (although some weren't functional without a dealer installed kit). Never thought of that.

Umm, GTO didn't put Pontiac on the muscle car scene. GTO invented the muscle car scene.

Jim Wangers and John Z. Delorean were messing around in the R&D department at Pontiac in 1963, building the 1964 Tempest. That was the year the Tempest was becoming a more traditional economy car, as GM was moving the Buick/Olds/Pontiac economy siblings away from rear mounted transaxles and aluminum V8's. It was Delorean who noticed that the the 326ci V8 going into the Tempest had the same bolt spacing and engine mounts as the 389ci engine used as the base motor for the fullsize cars. One ridiculously easy engine swap later, the two guys had the neatest hot rod in the whole department.

Through a little creative arm bending, Delorean convinced the brass that the 389ci engine, with some luxury options and an uprated suspension, should become an option package and that it would be a hit with teens who missed the Super Duty cars (like the 421SD Catalinas). The brass thought that they wouldn't sell 10,000 of the cars (though history proved that wrong). Wangers and Delorean gave the option package the name of the hottest sports car at the time, the then undefeated Ferrari 250GTO.

The GTO didn't become its own car in sales literature until 1965. And from then on out, the GTO became a more luxurious and refined version of the muscle car. The boy racer stuff was left to hoodscoop wearing Dodges and spoiler sporting Chevys. GTO was upmarket. It was the muscle car you could drive to the country club while still having enough punch to give the hot rodders a hassle. It wasn't until the Judge series came out that GTO fought back with the boy racer cars, wearing cartoonish colors and a large tail spoiler.

So, before you start crying that the new GTO looks like an economy car or that it doesn't inspire fear like the old one did, put down your rose colored glasses and take a look at the real history of the car. GM is run by a true car guy now, who's fighting against 30 years of corporate beancounting and poor R&D. He's picking and choosing his battles, and the battle he chose was to just get the car to the states and sell a couple to prove that people still want V8's and rear wheel drive. If this was the new Grand Am, you all would be salivating. But you put three letters stolen from Ferrari on the car (Mitsubishi did the same thing on their tribute to Ferrari, you know. But because Yanks would've considered it sacrilege to put GTO on a Mitsubishi because "That's Pontiac's!", they called it 3000GT) and all of a sudden it's not enough.

Hypocrites, naysayers, and whiners. That's what I think of people who complain about the 2004 GTO. You've waited 32 years for Pontiac to build an affordable, four seat, rwd, sport coupe with a powerful V8 and a stout transmission that would take the fight to all the imported cars. This is it. This is a car that can chew through Infiniti G35's and spit out Chrysler Crossfires. This is a car that will hang with a BMW 330ci in the corners and then blow by it in the straights. What do you people want? A hoodscoop? Is that what all the out and out BITCHING is about? Go down to the Pep Boys with all the ricers and buy a fiberglass one. They're self adhesive.

The GTO is back. Long live the GTO.


hood scoops might actually make it look better but i would only want them if they worked. thats a lot of info. great car, do u think that if it had wider tires that it would go faster? b/c it has more hp then an M3 but is .3 sec slower.

I agree. A non-functional hood scoop is a bit stupid. It actually slows the vehicle down by increasing drag.

Layla's Keeper, you have a good and valid arguement, but you are totally missing some of the big points. This is NOT a GTO, it is a Holden Monaro. That is the number one reason that this is not a true GTO. I like Lutz, but how much of a true car guy is he? A true car guy would not bring back, like you said, that car that invented the muscle car scene using an Australian, plain looking sports coupe. What the hell does the Monaro have to do with the GTO. If you like them so much, ship them up and sell them as HOLDEN MONAROS. NOT as the car that invented the muscle car scene. I don't mind the car looking similar to the other cars in Pontiacs line up. That is how it was in the 60's. The funny thing is when the G6 replaces the Grand Am, the GTO will be the least agressive car in Pontiacs line-up. This is the rebirth of the GTO? Go ahead and add hood scoops and recessed grilles next year. It will look better. But it certainly won't make it a GTO.
Before I go on let me just say I am not a new GTO hater. As an owner of the original, I like this car and what GM is trying to do. But why rush production and only take 16 months to change the Monaro into the GTO? Why not design the damn thing yourself?? Why leave the car practically unchanged and still boring??? You may say that all Delorean and crew did in '64 was take an existing car and drop a 389 in it. Well at least it was a car in Pontiac's line-up and a car designed by them and built in the good ol' US of A. I cannot understand why you would take an Australian sports coupe and use it to bring back an American muscle car legend. It can't be done. Sure, you get a kick-ass 350 HP decent looking car. But you don't get a GTO.
Now I respect the buyers who don't care what the car is called, they just love it and want it. But no one should be buying this car because it's a GTO. In '07, when these cars are built in the States on a different platform and they look a lot better, then you can buy it because it's a GTO. It will be a lot truer to the heritage than this GTO is. And don't get me wrong, I don't want GM to just go make a retro GTO that looks like a '66. I wouldn't mind retro at all, but I'm happy with something that looks different from everything else out there. So please Lutz, when the 3 years with this Aussie Goat is up, build a real American Muscle Car.

The problem with a worldwide automotive industry, is that it is difficult to have a truly American car anymore. It is too tempting just to bring in a car from somewhere else into the U.S. (and vice-versa). Of course, GM has managed to keep the Corvette American. The least it could have done is saved the GTO name for an American designed (if not built) car. And yes, even the Grand Prix and G6 look sportier.

You see, this is what PR is for. To get it out in the market, listen to the consumer and what they want. This i'm sure, is just the beginning for the new Holdan Manaro GTO, i expect many changes to take place over the next few years with the design of it.. So quit bitching, hold your breath and see what happens. :2cents:

You see, this is what PR is for. To get it out in the market, listen to the consumer and what they want. This i'm sure, is just the beginning for the new Holdan Manaro GTO, i expect many changes to take place over the next few years with the design of it.. So quit bitching, hold your breath and see what happens. :2cents:

That isn't the point. Yes the design will change and most likely get nicer. But, it will still be based strongly on the Monaro, therefore, not being American in design or manufacturing. I am holding my breath, waiting for the year when the GTO is designed by GM and built right here in the USA. Untill then, I am going to criticize.

As far as the name I must agree with blue02r6, they could have chosen a different one, it looks way too much like a Grand-Am, but longer. The GTO should never be forced to look like anything but a GTO, if their going to call it GTO it needs it's own personallity. Like I say just a little more creativity guys

I totally agree. The GTO should have its own distinctive personality that makes it a GTO and simply taking a Holden and putting GTO badges on it really demeans the GTO name and reputation. Yes it is a sweet ride, but it is a Holden Monaro in essence and it will always be just a dressed up holden monaro. Thats my two cents. :2cents: ;p

That isn't the point. Yes the design will change and most likely get nicer. But, it will still be based strongly on the Monaro, therefore, not being American in design or manufacturing. I am holding my breath, waiting for the year when the GTO is designed by GM and built right here in the USA. Untill then, I am going to criticize.
:werd: Very much agreed. Dont get me wrong, I cant wait to drive it, and it doesnt look hidious by any means, but it just doesnt have the pizzaz that I was hoping it would body styling-wise, ya know? If you ask me, GM went with what was easy: something that was already out and on teh market somewhere else, change the badges and a few other things bang, new car.

I'm not going to criticize, i saw it up close, first hand. It sounds nice, and looks beautiful. I think its an awesome car and well deserving of the name GTO.

Yeah you bastard; damn thing came in the day after I worked last, and was sold before I could get to see it. Now I have to wait for the next one to come in which is only god knows when.

There was a black one at the Motor Trend show in Baltimore Sunday. I actually didn't get within 10 feet of it, I felt there were much nicer things at the show to look at. That's not saying much for the GTO, considering this show is relatively small and rather boring. But my point is this car is just nothing to look at. Nothing pops out at you and there are many other cars on the road I would rather own. However, I am dying to drive one. 350 horses and they say it drives better than anything GM is making. The way I feel about cars, I can't just look past the boring styling, so I can tell you I won't be buying one anytime soon. But I do want to rive one nd I'll tell you if I do, and I hope you all do the same...

This thing looks like all the other GM products! In fact it looks like my kid's Grand Am but bigger! Get original GM - find some new designers and RETOOL for a better auto. I can't believe they think this has any relation to the original goat other than they included the HP it should have.

AND WHERE'S THE HOOD (working) SCOOPS! Morons with half a brain designers!

Maybe they would be better off going to some of fabulous custom muscle car rod builders here in the states and ask for designs. I have seen custom rods I would deem GTOs before I would call this one a GTO!

Another futile attempt by GM beancounters to copy and save money than trying to invest money in the US market and truly believe in an original product - GTO!

I tried not to sugar coat it!

ok guys i don't think that companies should try to revive dead cars... let them rest and kep their legacy.. however it's no like they compleely made a old capper and tried to sell it by calling it a GTO, it has well over 300 horses and for today that's not to shabby. In fact accoding to a magazine article it has 350+. he new hemi doesn't even have 350, either way you look at it yes it's a great new car but hey should have named it someting else as far as i'm concerned the GTO reign ended in 69 let a different pontiac reign in 2004 and on.

well i have no problem with companies reviving a dead cars, kinda wish they would revive the malibu and impala back to rwd v8 cars.

Finally, it's here.

On a visit to Australia in Spring '02, I fell in love with the Holden Monaro. I was thrilled to find upon further investigation that it was due to be released here as none other than the GTO.

Now however, I am a bit disappointed. I just expected more....style, more grunt... I mean, they gave it the GTO name but when I look at the GTO I dont SEE the power that I've read about.

Comparing the GTO I saw at previous Detroit International Auto Shows... and the Holden Monaros I saw on the road in Melbourne makes me wonder about GM's goals for this car. Loving the specs on it, however sadly enough I think a vast majority of the population puts more weight in the the look of a car than they should. That being said... I am impatiently awaiting the design of the next generation.

The few (and I do mean FEW) I've seen on the road here seemed lacking. I will admit that most of the Monaros I had seen were decked out with the HSV package so maybe I should sit tight and just wait for us to really work it over... SOMEBODY PLEASE SUPRISE ME HERE .... show me how it SHOULD have been done!!

**Also, I am currently working on a project for class, a magazine layout. What I am looking for are actual photographs of a decent size of the Holden Monaro and the original GTO, and any actual articles comparing these cars. Email me at [email protected], include GTO/Monaro in the subject line. Any clues you can give me are greatly appreciated!!!**

its still the same concept of the GTO
taking an existing model and dropping a massive v8 in it.

i know it resmebles nothing of the original GTO which is disappointing
at least it is rear wheel drive and has optional manual transmissions

most newer cars using muscle car names have lost this
(grand prix, monte carlo, impala, malibu) to name a few

Its like a Buick with a Corvette motor and it is horribly expensive. The original goat was a Tempest with a big block that could really move a station wagon. It is interesting that the new GTO will be ten times the price of the original. Who cares about a performance car if most people can't afford it. MUSCLE for the MASSES, I say.

back then muscle cars only costed like 2500$ from what my dad says, but since then prices have gone up due to inflation and other causes. its like gas prices and milk prices

back then muscle cars only costed like 2500$ from what my dad says

Your dad is telling you true except that they started at $2500 and then went up depending on options. Back then I worked at a job for minumum wage which was $1.65/hr. So lets say you fancied up a goat with all the options to make it $3200. Today it is $32000 so the minumum wage would have to be $16.50 to keep up. I figure the new GTO is about triple the price of the old one after adjusting for inflation. There is another problem, however. Back in '64 everything coming out of Detroit had a life expectancy of thirty years. People changed for new styling and such, not because the car was worn out. There is no way that this new one is a thirty or even a twenty year vehicle. Ten is about the limit and only after that will it be worth $3200 just like the original.

The new one would have to cost $16,000 and come with a 100,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty to even come close to the old one. This ain't gonna happen so this new one is a goat in name only.