wierd racing question please answer
crabby760
12-18-2003, 10:33 PM
ok check this out say my friend and i race and he's ran his car at the track and he ran a 16.4 1/4 mile and we race on the street and i always beat him by a good 3 car lengths is there anyway to guess on what my time might be in a 1/4 mile?
BullShifter
12-18-2003, 10:51 PM
No. Measure out a 1/4 mile & run against a stop watch to get an idea.
SenseiAccord
12-19-2003, 01:52 AM
do u mean race 1/4 on the streets or semi longdistance races? cuz if it is long distance it doesnt really matter that u beat him in that because supras can easily beat an AWD 3000gt on the highways but on the 1/4 mile 3000gts would probably smoke a supra. Supras have major traction problems thats why but killer highway speeds. Off topic but havent u guys heard that question "what is the difference between a 500HP supra and an 800HP supra? Nothing because they will both run 11s in the 1/4!"
pheurton-skeurto
12-19-2003, 10:18 AM
do u mean race 1/4 on the streets or semi longdistance races? cuz if it is long distance it doesnt really matter that u beat him in that because supras can easily beat an AWD 3000gt on the highways but on the 1/4 mile 3000gts would probably smoke a supra. Supras have major traction problems thats why but killer highway speeds. Off topic but havent u guys heard that question "what is the difference between a 500HP supra and an 800HP supra? Nothing because they will both run 11s in the 1/4!"
ahhh-hegghmmm...dont know about all of that...
ahhh-hegghmmm...dont know about all of that...
bbyzfr6
12-19-2003, 11:01 AM
First of all my farm truck would run a 16 in the 1/4 mile, but a good estimate or from what I have heard at the track is about .3 seconds per car lenght. Of course that all depends on the speeds you are going at the end, but you get the gist .5-1 second faster in a 1/4. I think the stop watch idea is a great idea, a gtech, or 20 bucks at the track.
got v-tec?
12-21-2003, 08:11 PM
ok check this out say my friend and i race and he's ran his car at the track and he ran a 16.4 1/4 mile and we race on the street and i always beat him by a good 3 car lengths is there anyway to guess on what my time might be in a 1/4 mile?
what kind of cars do you and your friend have??
what kind of cars do you and your friend have??
integra818
12-21-2003, 08:21 PM
How bout you try this : GO TO THE DAMN TRACK!!!
Ricochet
12-22-2003, 12:02 AM
or 20 bucks at the track.
wtf? Costs $7 here for a full day/night of racing...
wtf? Costs $7 here for a full day/night of racing...
pheurton-skeurto
12-22-2003, 12:23 AM
its $8 at trails on wednesday nights (not $7). also...ricochet, where were you on saturday? how can you have better competition if you dont show up??? sike, im sure youll find time to come out and get your ass stomped at some point. ha ha, messing.
Ricochet
12-22-2003, 12:42 AM
Trails was always $7... I haven't gone on Wednesdays in a while because of work/school, I always show up Saturday mornings.
About this weekend, my friend's band was playing out west, and I didn't feel like freezing my ass off. I take it you went? Were there a lot of people?
About this weekend, my friend's band was playing out west, and I didn't feel like freezing my ass off. I take it you went? Were there a lot of people?
pheurton-skeurto
12-22-2003, 12:37 PM
yeah there were like two cars there for about 15 minutes, didnt bother talking to them. it was like a mustang and what looked like an old ass festiva or something. i left right after them at like 11:15. just thought that id give you a hard time about it either way.
got v-tec?
01-19-2004, 08:49 PM
at my local track you can only race every other friday from 11 to 2am.
for $10 a night but its always so packed you get to run about 2 times an hour sometimes less. plus its only open from may to sept. plus high elevation! it sucks.
for $10 a night but its always so packed you get to run about 2 times an hour sometimes less. plus its only open from may to sept. plus high elevation! it sucks.
knorwj
01-19-2004, 09:33 PM
shit at least you guys have a track... When i lived by nyc i would drive to englishtown for a track but now i live 4 hours north or nyc and i can't find a track anywhere. damn i wish there was a track close to oneonta.
afroeman
01-20-2004, 11:19 PM
You guys have some cheap ass tracks if they only cost like $10 or less. Over here (East Texas) the track is $20... the track sucks ass too. It's old and kinda rundown. It's about 30-45 mins from where I live and the $20 will get you MAYBE 3 runs on a good night. It's only open from 11-1 am on Sunday nights.
About 1/4 estimation... I heard that at 100 miles per hour 1 car length is .2 seconds difference... so if you figure that at a 16.4 you'd be going about 75-80 in which case that's probably .3 or so. The best way to measure though is to either run your car at the track, get a stopwatch ($5 at Wal-Mart, or a sporting goods store), or get a GTech Unit for your car (about $150 I think)... Other than that I have no clue...
About 1/4 estimation... I heard that at 100 miles per hour 1 car length is .2 seconds difference... so if you figure that at a 16.4 you'd be going about 75-80 in which case that's probably .3 or so. The best way to measure though is to either run your car at the track, get a stopwatch ($5 at Wal-Mart, or a sporting goods store), or get a GTech Unit for your car (about $150 I think)... Other than that I have no clue...
Ricochet
01-21-2004, 07:51 AM
Gtech... lmfao
btw u spelled your name wrong, it's "afroman"
btw u spelled your name wrong, it's "afroman"
SiGNAL748
01-21-2004, 05:52 PM
under 18 for free @ laguna seca (1/8th) :naughty:
its some kind of keep racing off the streets deal. and i'd have to say its working quite well.
its some kind of keep racing off the streets deal. and i'd have to say its working quite well.
PunkAlex
01-21-2004, 07:44 PM
under 18 for free @ laguna seca (1/8th) :naughty:
its some kind of keep racing off the streets deal. and i'd have to say its working quite well.
hah here in NC the closest track is is 30 minutes away....up to the track its 2 lanes and back its 2 lanes...with stoplights....so you street race on your way to the track...then you race at the track....then race your way back home!
its some kind of keep racing off the streets deal. and i'd have to say its working quite well.
hah here in NC the closest track is is 30 minutes away....up to the track its 2 lanes and back its 2 lanes...with stoplights....so you street race on your way to the track...then you race at the track....then race your way back home!
SiGNAL748
01-21-2004, 11:19 PM
good deal :iceslolan
HondaIntegraXSI
01-23-2004, 07:29 PM
lol, what the hell is it w/ the prices? at 411(4-11) it cost 35 bux? @ Knoxville dragway it cost 40 bux! one the ridge there is a road that goes to my cabin that we all race on, it is free.
89Turbo944
01-23-2004, 07:38 PM
SenseiAccord you seem to have no idea what you are talking about. Have you ever raced a supra? An T78 Supra beat a new Lambo Mercilago(cant speel that). In the 1/4. I have seen supras beet 3000GT's. A 3kgt is slow, weighs to much. And the Supra is far superior.
HondaIntegraXSI arent you the one who beat the mustang 4.6 or whatever? Where are th pics of this alusinve AWD Integra. And dont forget pics of the actual drivetrain.
HondaIntegraXSI arent you the one who beat the mustang 4.6 or whatever? Where are th pics of this alusinve AWD Integra. And dont forget pics of the actual drivetrain.
SenseiAccord
01-24-2004, 05:06 AM
SenseiAccord you seem to have no idea what you are talking about. Have you ever raced a supra? An T78 Supra beat a new Lambo Mercilago(cant speel that). In the 1/4. I have seen supras beet 3000GT's. A 3kgt is slow, weighs to much. And the Supra is far superior.
HondaIntegraXSI arent you the one who beat the mustang 4.6 or whatever? Where are th pics of this alusinve AWD Integra. And dont forget pics of the actual drivetrain.
OK Mr. 89Turbo a WRX then or whatever car that is AWD now. Supras are Highway beasts and not 1/4 beasts. AWD cars own the 1/4 strip. I think u watch too much fast and furious racing stock ferraris. 3kGT arent as slow as u think. Yea they may way like 3700lbs but it has that twin turbo VR4 to back it up with its torque coming in at really low RPMs but it has some major potential that the engine can release.
Anyway tonight i saw a 94-98 i think... supra running 18s. I wish i was racing him cuz then i would could brag to everyone that i smoked a supra. With my Stock 90 Accord ex sedan i ran 16.9... first time racing it... with only intake so i wouldve smoked him by like 5 cars or something. That wouldve been the best night ever beating a supra.
By the way jsut to let u guys kno down in hawaii... it is $8 to race at the tracks from 7pm-12am and some nights it is pretty empty... maybe about 5-6 runs in an hour. Only thing is that rumor has it that our air is different than the mainland so our cars run a lil slower. Dont kno if it is the temp cuz it gets pretty cold where our tracks are. But then again cold to u guys up there is like snow and cold down here is like 70 degrees LOL
HondaIntegraXSI arent you the one who beat the mustang 4.6 or whatever? Where are th pics of this alusinve AWD Integra. And dont forget pics of the actual drivetrain.
OK Mr. 89Turbo a WRX then or whatever car that is AWD now. Supras are Highway beasts and not 1/4 beasts. AWD cars own the 1/4 strip. I think u watch too much fast and furious racing stock ferraris. 3kGT arent as slow as u think. Yea they may way like 3700lbs but it has that twin turbo VR4 to back it up with its torque coming in at really low RPMs but it has some major potential that the engine can release.
Anyway tonight i saw a 94-98 i think... supra running 18s. I wish i was racing him cuz then i would could brag to everyone that i smoked a supra. With my Stock 90 Accord ex sedan i ran 16.9... first time racing it... with only intake so i wouldve smoked him by like 5 cars or something. That wouldve been the best night ever beating a supra.
By the way jsut to let u guys kno down in hawaii... it is $8 to race at the tracks from 7pm-12am and some nights it is pretty empty... maybe about 5-6 runs in an hour. Only thing is that rumor has it that our air is different than the mainland so our cars run a lil slower. Dont kno if it is the temp cuz it gets pretty cold where our tracks are. But then again cold to u guys up there is like snow and cold down here is like 70 degrees LOL
89Turbo944
01-24-2004, 05:29 AM
Sorry but you are full of the stuff that is excreated due to a bowel movement.
Would you like me to produce multiple time slips showing Supras in the 10s 9s and 8s. Its not hard to do. Its funny how the people who have watched the F&F seem to bring it up all the time. If the Supra was running 18's there was somethin gwrong with it. They run low 14's to high 13's from Toyota. The car is in no way slow. Go post some of this in the Supra threads. See how long you last.
You obvously have no idea what you are talking about. Have you driven a Supra, I have. Have you draged a supra, I have. Have you driven a 3000GT, i have. Have you draged a 3000gt, i have.
I have spent my intire life around cars. My father is a mechanic, im a mechanic. I fix cars for a living. The 3kgt is a decent car, but parts for them are few and far between, and very expensive. The 4ws is crap. But hey if you want to take on a supra go right ahead and watch as he leaves you some rubber across your windsheild.
How old are you? Im guessing that you are not very old or are not aware how these cars work. Just cause it has AWD dosent mean that it is a better race car. The fastest cars in the world are all RWD. When is the last time you saw a 3.5second top fuel dragster??? Or maby a funny car. There is a reason y AWD has not been a huge thing in the drag racing scean.
O and since you know so much about the 3000GT please indulge me a bit further. This VR4, what does it mean? There is a meaning behind all the leters and the number i assure you.
So really RWD cars own the strip, for now. HAve you driven a Ferrari?
O and if you would like to see where i work you are welcome to come to Vancouver, its on 2nd street, nest to MCL. We sell exotics. I have driven most of the common exotics. Feel free to come buy and drive one of the techs Supra, and anothers 3000GT.
Would you like me to produce multiple time slips showing Supras in the 10s 9s and 8s. Its not hard to do. Its funny how the people who have watched the F&F seem to bring it up all the time. If the Supra was running 18's there was somethin gwrong with it. They run low 14's to high 13's from Toyota. The car is in no way slow. Go post some of this in the Supra threads. See how long you last.
You obvously have no idea what you are talking about. Have you driven a Supra, I have. Have you draged a supra, I have. Have you driven a 3000GT, i have. Have you draged a 3000gt, i have.
I have spent my intire life around cars. My father is a mechanic, im a mechanic. I fix cars for a living. The 3kgt is a decent car, but parts for them are few and far between, and very expensive. The 4ws is crap. But hey if you want to take on a supra go right ahead and watch as he leaves you some rubber across your windsheild.
How old are you? Im guessing that you are not very old or are not aware how these cars work. Just cause it has AWD dosent mean that it is a better race car. The fastest cars in the world are all RWD. When is the last time you saw a 3.5second top fuel dragster??? Or maby a funny car. There is a reason y AWD has not been a huge thing in the drag racing scean.
O and since you know so much about the 3000GT please indulge me a bit further. This VR4, what does it mean? There is a meaning behind all the leters and the number i assure you.
So really RWD cars own the strip, for now. HAve you driven a Ferrari?
O and if you would like to see where i work you are welcome to come to Vancouver, its on 2nd street, nest to MCL. We sell exotics. I have driven most of the common exotics. Feel free to come buy and drive one of the techs Supra, and anothers 3000GT.
thepolishmafia1337
01-24-2004, 06:18 AM
so if your 3kgt is slow why not add an 8 ft wing and some z3 fenders? that should pep it up a bit. and put some viagra into the gastank.
89Turbo944
01-24-2004, 06:31 AM
So thats how you get an accord to go fast huh? Or is that for all Hondas??? I though it was the NOS stickers that made it go fast.
so if your 3kgt is slow why not add an 8 ft wing and some z3 fenders? that should pep it up a bit. and put some viagra into the gastank.
if this was your attempt at being funny, id sugest you leave your humour out of a forum. Unless you are lloking to get flamed on.
so if your 3kgt is slow why not add an 8 ft wing and some z3 fenders? that should pep it up a bit. and put some viagra into the gastank.
if this was your attempt at being funny, id sugest you leave your humour out of a forum. Unless you are lloking to get flamed on.
thepolishmafia1337
01-25-2004, 12:48 AM
"So thats how you get an accord to go fast huh? Or is that for all Hondas??? I though it was the NOS stickers that made it go fast."
wtf is that. so you can post your retoric and threaten me that im going to "flamed on" like im scared of that. if you want to "flame" on me, "flame" away.
wtf is that. so you can post your retoric and threaten me that im going to "flamed on" like im scared of that. if you want to "flame" on me, "flame" away.
89Turbo944
01-25-2004, 12:53 AM
I have no intention to flame on you. I never have that intention. Im just warning you that others will do that.
Chill newbie, dont get you panties in a bunch.
Chill newbie, dont get you panties in a bunch.
ibsixubnine03
01-25-2004, 01:03 AM
newbie? it says u 2 joined the forum in the same month??
89Turbo944
01-25-2004, 01:07 AM
Yup i did. But does it say newbie. Find my posts they are all usefull info, well almost all.
I have not seen him contribute one peice of useful information to this forum at all. I have not seen it but dosent meen it has not happened.
Im almost positive that i have much more automtive experance than he does due to the fact that I work on cars for a living.
But thats beside the point.
I have not seen him contribute one peice of useful information to this forum at all. I have not seen it but dosent meen it has not happened.
Im almost positive that i have much more automtive experance than he does due to the fact that I work on cars for a living.
But thats beside the point.
89Turbo944
01-25-2004, 01:08 AM
PS This is my 3rd account on here, I have been posting many times before on here.
thepolishmafia1337
01-25-2004, 01:18 AM
i may be new to this forum. thats about it. if someone wants to flame on me because i make light of the things that some people do to their cars thats my perrogative. many men have made fun of my blazer. i hear things like howd you make it pop a wheelie like that. i tell them i put vtec stickers on it. or dude i think your alternator is whining. thats a funny one. so let them flame. and he is right we did join in the same month newbie. hehe
thepolishmafia1337
01-25-2004, 06:08 AM
Yup i did. But does it say newbie. Find my posts they are all usefull info, well almost all.
I have not seen him contribute one peice of useful information to this forum at all. I have not seen it but dosent meen it has not happened.
Im almost positive that i have much more automtive experance than he does due to the fact that I work on cars for a living.
But thats beside the point.
well i dont sell cars or anything i usually fix them. ive been a tech for 5 years and ive been ASE cert. for 2 yrs. you could very possibly have more experience than me. just like racing tho there is always someone faster. I am not arrogant enough to positivly state that i have more knowlege of cars or anything for that matter than another person. I do not know exactly what you know and you have no clue what i know. im still on the upward struggle for knowlege i have 2 more test until i get master certified. just because i dont spend every free second that i have on this forum letting you tell me that you know more than me doesnt mean that it is so.
I have not seen him contribute one peice of useful information to this forum at all. I have not seen it but dosent meen it has not happened.
Im almost positive that i have much more automtive experance than he does due to the fact that I work on cars for a living.
But thats beside the point.
well i dont sell cars or anything i usually fix them. ive been a tech for 5 years and ive been ASE cert. for 2 yrs. you could very possibly have more experience than me. just like racing tho there is always someone faster. I am not arrogant enough to positivly state that i have more knowlege of cars or anything for that matter than another person. I do not know exactly what you know and you have no clue what i know. im still on the upward struggle for knowlege i have 2 more test until i get master certified. just because i dont spend every free second that i have on this forum letting you tell me that you know more than me doesnt mean that it is so.
89Turbo944
01-25-2004, 06:14 AM
I posted that due to your childish comment to add a large wing and fenders to make a car go faster. From comments such as that you only make yourself look bad.
Not that i car how you want to make yourself look. And i see you are working to become a full fledged tech, well good for you. The trade needs more people. Like i said "I have not seen it dosnet mean it has not happened". But comments like you made only make you look like anothe rkid just trying to piss someone off.
Not that i car how you want to make yourself look. And i see you are working to become a full fledged tech, well good for you. The trade needs more people. Like i said "I have not seen it dosnet mean it has not happened". But comments like you made only make you look like anothe rkid just trying to piss someone off.
SenseiAccord
01-25-2004, 07:24 PM
Sorry but you are full of the stuff that is excreated due to a bowel movement.
Would you like me to produce multiple time slips showing Supras in the 10s 9s and 8s. Its not hard to do. Its funny how the people who have watched the F&F seem to bring it up all the time. If the Supra was running 18's there was somethin gwrong with it. They run low 14's to high 13's from Toyota. The car is in no way slow. Go post some of this in the Supra threads. See how long you last.
You obvously have no idea what you are talking about. Have you driven a Supra, I have. Have you draged a supra, I have. Have you driven a 3000GT, i have. Have you draged a 3000gt, i have.
I have spent my intire life around cars. My father is a mechanic, im a mechanic. I fix cars for a living. The 3kgt is a decent car, but parts for them are few and far between, and very expensive. The 4ws is crap. But hey if you want to take on a supra go right ahead and watch as he leaves you some rubber across your windsheild.
How old are you? Im guessing that you are not very old or are not aware how these cars work. Just cause it has AWD dosent mean that it is a better race car. The fastest cars in the world are all RWD. When is the last time you saw a 3.5second top fuel dragster??? Or maby a funny car. There is a reason y AWD has not been a huge thing in the drag racing scean.
O and since you know so much about the 3000GT please indulge me a bit further. This VR4, what does it mean? There is a meaning behind all the leters and the number i assure you.
So really RWD cars own the strip, for now. HAve you driven a Ferrari?
O and if you would like to see where i work you are welcome to come to Vancouver, its on 2nd street, nest to MCL. We sell exotics. I have driven most of the common exotics. Feel free to come buy and drive one of the techs Supra, and anothers 3000GT.
Whoa sorry that my father isnt a car like how urs is. I kno that there arent many AWD full drag cars but i was more relating to daily drivers. I may not kno much if u can tell by my other posts. If u read them, u kno i aint kno mechanic because im asking questions on how to install an intake and asking questions about gaskets. Im just an ordinary person trying to learn more but then u gotta come down and diss everyone because we dont have an engine as a brain like u.
Anyway about that supra running 18s i saw... i didnt say it was running 18s all night. I meant he ran in the general 18s area and i wished that i had raced him that time he ran 18s because then it would be cool to see a supra in my rear view mirror. But later on that night he ran 14.3 so it has to be his driving. anyway i kno some things on cars and i didnt buy an accord to be the fastest car on the planet. I bought this car because in my opinion i think they are nice for my budget. I live in hawaii so we have very limited money due to limited space on this rock for land, homes, and faster wear and tear due to the salty air.
Ok i got a joke for the hour... When u said about me racing the supra and getting rubber all over my windshield... well i do have rubber across my windshield... its called my wiper blades hahahaha. OK that wasnt funny but it might cheer up somebody since everyone is arguing with everyone.
Anyway i got a question on racing too.
-Is there some kind of special way or something to change gears when racing. One of my friends says that his friend double clutches when racing people and the 1/4 mile but i thought double clutching was only for slowing down too syncronize the other gears.
Would you like me to produce multiple time slips showing Supras in the 10s 9s and 8s. Its not hard to do. Its funny how the people who have watched the F&F seem to bring it up all the time. If the Supra was running 18's there was somethin gwrong with it. They run low 14's to high 13's from Toyota. The car is in no way slow. Go post some of this in the Supra threads. See how long you last.
You obvously have no idea what you are talking about. Have you driven a Supra, I have. Have you draged a supra, I have. Have you driven a 3000GT, i have. Have you draged a 3000gt, i have.
I have spent my intire life around cars. My father is a mechanic, im a mechanic. I fix cars for a living. The 3kgt is a decent car, but parts for them are few and far between, and very expensive. The 4ws is crap. But hey if you want to take on a supra go right ahead and watch as he leaves you some rubber across your windsheild.
How old are you? Im guessing that you are not very old or are not aware how these cars work. Just cause it has AWD dosent mean that it is a better race car. The fastest cars in the world are all RWD. When is the last time you saw a 3.5second top fuel dragster??? Or maby a funny car. There is a reason y AWD has not been a huge thing in the drag racing scean.
O and since you know so much about the 3000GT please indulge me a bit further. This VR4, what does it mean? There is a meaning behind all the leters and the number i assure you.
So really RWD cars own the strip, for now. HAve you driven a Ferrari?
O and if you would like to see where i work you are welcome to come to Vancouver, its on 2nd street, nest to MCL. We sell exotics. I have driven most of the common exotics. Feel free to come buy and drive one of the techs Supra, and anothers 3000GT.
Whoa sorry that my father isnt a car like how urs is. I kno that there arent many AWD full drag cars but i was more relating to daily drivers. I may not kno much if u can tell by my other posts. If u read them, u kno i aint kno mechanic because im asking questions on how to install an intake and asking questions about gaskets. Im just an ordinary person trying to learn more but then u gotta come down and diss everyone because we dont have an engine as a brain like u.
Anyway about that supra running 18s i saw... i didnt say it was running 18s all night. I meant he ran in the general 18s area and i wished that i had raced him that time he ran 18s because then it would be cool to see a supra in my rear view mirror. But later on that night he ran 14.3 so it has to be his driving. anyway i kno some things on cars and i didnt buy an accord to be the fastest car on the planet. I bought this car because in my opinion i think they are nice for my budget. I live in hawaii so we have very limited money due to limited space on this rock for land, homes, and faster wear and tear due to the salty air.
Ok i got a joke for the hour... When u said about me racing the supra and getting rubber all over my windshield... well i do have rubber across my windshield... its called my wiper blades hahahaha. OK that wasnt funny but it might cheer up somebody since everyone is arguing with everyone.
Anyway i got a question on racing too.
-Is there some kind of special way or something to change gears when racing. One of my friends says that his friend double clutches when racing people and the 1/4 mile but i thought double clutching was only for slowing down too syncronize the other gears.
BullShifter
01-26-2004, 03:53 PM
Anyway i got a question on racing too.
-Is there some kind of special way or something to change gears when racing. One of my friends says that his friend double clutches when racing people and the 1/4 mile but i thought double clutching was only for slowing down too syncronize the other gears.
Your friend has been watching too much Rice & the Ridiculous, double clutching with a synchro trans is a WASTE and will slow you down. Double clutch downshifts will only save minimal wear on the synchros & still not needed.
1. www.racingschools.com
2. Practice
3. Practice
4. Practice
I think for most people it's hard to explain driving technique because it comes natural. Not something you think about, you just do it. If your thinkin, your SLOW!
-Is there some kind of special way or something to change gears when racing. One of my friends says that his friend double clutches when racing people and the 1/4 mile but i thought double clutching was only for slowing down too syncronize the other gears.
Your friend has been watching too much Rice & the Ridiculous, double clutching with a synchro trans is a WASTE and will slow you down. Double clutch downshifts will only save minimal wear on the synchros & still not needed.
1. www.racingschools.com
2. Practice
3. Practice
4. Practice
I think for most people it's hard to explain driving technique because it comes natural. Not something you think about, you just do it. If your thinkin, your SLOW!
SiGNAL748
01-26-2004, 10:02 PM
this is the worst thread hijacking i've ever seen lol
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