American Muscle Shoot Out
jayjayjayjay
12-09-2003, 10:56 PM
American Muscle in the current century is represented by a few cars:
1. Dodge Viper SRT-10
2. Ford GT
3. Ford Mustang SVT Cobra
4. Chevy Corvette Z06
5. Chevy Camaro 35th Anniversary SS
1. Dodge Viper SRT-10- 505 ci v10 500 hp, 525 ft lbs torque, 0-60 in 3.9 seconds, 1/4 mile in 11.77 @123.63 mph, $80,000
2. Ford GT-330 ci v8. 500hp, 500 ft lbs torque, 0-60 in 3.6 seconds, 1/4 mile in 11.78 @ 124.31, $150,000
3. Ford Mustang SVT Cobra- 280ci v8, 390 hp, 390 ft lbs torque, 0-60 in 4.69 seconds, 1/4 milr in 12.84 @ 113.18, $34,000
4. Chevy Corvette Z06- 345 ci v8, 405 hp, 400 ft lbs torque, 0-60 in 4.6 seconds, 1/4 mile in 12.85 @ 114.36, $55,000
5. Camaro SS- 350 ci v8, 310 hp, 340 ft lbs torque, 0-60 in 5.1 seconds, 1/4 mile in 13.9 @ 101 mph, $30,000
My vote goes to the viper, followed by the gt, vette, camaro, and last , the mustang. Keep in touch for german and other eurpean comparisons.
1. Dodge Viper SRT-10
2. Ford GT
3. Ford Mustang SVT Cobra
4. Chevy Corvette Z06
5. Chevy Camaro 35th Anniversary SS
1. Dodge Viper SRT-10- 505 ci v10 500 hp, 525 ft lbs torque, 0-60 in 3.9 seconds, 1/4 mile in 11.77 @123.63 mph, $80,000
2. Ford GT-330 ci v8. 500hp, 500 ft lbs torque, 0-60 in 3.6 seconds, 1/4 mile in 11.78 @ 124.31, $150,000
3. Ford Mustang SVT Cobra- 280ci v8, 390 hp, 390 ft lbs torque, 0-60 in 4.69 seconds, 1/4 milr in 12.84 @ 113.18, $34,000
4. Chevy Corvette Z06- 345 ci v8, 405 hp, 400 ft lbs torque, 0-60 in 4.6 seconds, 1/4 mile in 12.85 @ 114.36, $55,000
5. Camaro SS- 350 ci v8, 310 hp, 340 ft lbs torque, 0-60 in 5.1 seconds, 1/4 mile in 13.9 @ 101 mph, $30,000
My vote goes to the viper, followed by the gt, vette, camaro, and last , the mustang. Keep in touch for german and other eurpean comparisons.
Polygon
12-10-2003, 12:07 AM
The best bang for the buck, IMO, is the Viper. I would take it, hands down, over any other car on the list.
OoNismoO
12-10-2003, 01:47 AM
what defines a muscle car? or whats the original definition of it? cause i never thought the z06, the viper, or the gt40 was a muscle car. i always thought that muscle cars were four passenger cars, with n/a big displacement v8s, like i would consider the pontiac gto a good example of a modern day muscle car. i define the z06, and the viper as sports cars like the shelby cobra.
by the way, you got a typo on the cobras torque, its 390 not 290.
by the way, you got a typo on the cobras torque, its 390 not 290.
Blue02R6
12-10-2003, 09:43 AM
The classic muscle car definition is a Midsized car with a fullsized car's engine. So truthfully none of those cars are muscle cars. They are Grand Touring cars, and sports cars. Sorry.
NISSANSPDR
12-10-2003, 12:23 PM
The Viper...when they make a hardtop...if not...the Ford GT...so sexy
Kurtdg19
12-10-2003, 12:35 PM
The classic muscle car definition is a Midsized car with a fullsized car's engine. So truthfully none of those cars are muscle cars. They are Grand Touring cars, and sports cars. Sorry.
Well a muscle car in today's standard may not necessarily be an exact replica of the muscle cars 30 years ago. I always try to keep in mind that the definition of a vehicle can change in time just as many things do (even the US const. is subject to change).
I dont really like the numbers you've found for the cars, but they are only numbers...
Has anyone else read the new article in Car and Driver 1/04 testing the Ford GT, Ferrari Challenge, and the GT3 911? Let me tell you, I was pretty impressed with the GT. It finished over 2 seconds ahead of the others on their 1.9mi GingerMan Raceway, thats pretty impressive. It does hold a hp advantage over the others given that its acceleration times overwhelmed both the Ferarri and the Porsche. They were pretty much dead even up until the 10th/11th turn which is followed by 2 good straights where the GT's grunt was able to pull away from the other 2. This car is definatley going to be a good competitor against the cars in its class.
My vote would go the Viper, Ford GT, Z06, Cobra, SS. I can't ignore the massive displacement and torque the Viper has. It reflects a muscle car better than the rest in my opinion. I dislike the fact that its only trim is as a roadster though...for now.
Well a muscle car in today's standard may not necessarily be an exact replica of the muscle cars 30 years ago. I always try to keep in mind that the definition of a vehicle can change in time just as many things do (even the US const. is subject to change).
I dont really like the numbers you've found for the cars, but they are only numbers...
Has anyone else read the new article in Car and Driver 1/04 testing the Ford GT, Ferrari Challenge, and the GT3 911? Let me tell you, I was pretty impressed with the GT. It finished over 2 seconds ahead of the others on their 1.9mi GingerMan Raceway, thats pretty impressive. It does hold a hp advantage over the others given that its acceleration times overwhelmed both the Ferarri and the Porsche. They were pretty much dead even up until the 10th/11th turn which is followed by 2 good straights where the GT's grunt was able to pull away from the other 2. This car is definatley going to be a good competitor against the cars in its class.
My vote would go the Viper, Ford GT, Z06, Cobra, SS. I can't ignore the massive displacement and torque the Viper has. It reflects a muscle car better than the rest in my opinion. I dislike the fact that its only trim is as a roadster though...for now.
Polygon
12-10-2003, 12:55 PM
Did you see the comparison between the Viper SRT-10 and the GT? The GT was ahead by only a couple of tenths of a second in everything and this is against the convertible Viper. I can't wait to see the Viper Competition Coupe when it comes out.
Kurtdg19
12-10-2003, 02:06 PM
Did you see the comparison between the Viper SRT-10 and the GT? The GT was ahead by only a couple of tenths of a second in everything and this is against the convertible Viper. I can't wait to see the Viper Competition Coupe when it comes out.
No kidding? I wouldn't of thought the Viper would be able to pull that close to the GT, but then again, the GT si still really heavy. (being weighed at 3429 in the C&D article) Now I'm really curious to see what the competition coupe is capable of, as well as the Z06 version of the C6. Does anybody else feel the same way I do when you hear hyp about certain cars? If they could actually keep these cars a secret a little longer from everybody there wouldn't be that extra 6months of anticipation that drives everyone crazy. I hate that.
No kidding? I wouldn't of thought the Viper would be able to pull that close to the GT, but then again, the GT si still really heavy. (being weighed at 3429 in the C&D article) Now I'm really curious to see what the competition coupe is capable of, as well as the Z06 version of the C6. Does anybody else feel the same way I do when you hear hyp about certain cars? If they could actually keep these cars a secret a little longer from everybody there wouldn't be that extra 6months of anticipation that drives everyone crazy. I hate that.
jayjayjayjay
12-10-2003, 07:42 PM
Sorry about the typo. Also, when i mentioned american muscle, i was referring to the top end cars produced by american companies. THe cars with the most power/torque (muscle) and the classic muscle cars (mustang and camaro) were thrown in as well. I chose these cars because they show the European producers what we have. They resemble america. THey are the top end cars produced in this continent.
Redlined_V8
12-11-2003, 01:15 AM
4. Chevy Corvette Z06- 345 ci v8, 405 hp, 400 ft lbs torque, 0-60 in 4.6 seconds, 1/4 mile in 12.85 @ 114.36, $55,000
5. Camaro SS- 350 ci v8, 310 hp, 340 ft lbs torque, 0-60 in 5.1 seconds, 1/4 mile in 13.9 @ 101 mph, $30,000
I'm not sure where u got ur times on these two at, but, I have consistently seen times for a corvette Z at more at 0-60 in 4.2, w/ a quarter mi at 12.4, as for the camaro, it has a 345 also, not a 350, and the camaro ss has 325 hp, the Z28 has 310. Not that u were that far off, and that it matters a whole helluva lot,and not that i dont think u know ur cars or anythin, but its just a thing that kinda bugs me.
I guess i'd go for the ZO6, it was the first real hot rod sports car, its debut was in 1963 i believe, so it was the first of its kind, after that everyone started makin hot rods too, that and i guess i do have "CHEVY" engraved on my forehead.
5. Camaro SS- 350 ci v8, 310 hp, 340 ft lbs torque, 0-60 in 5.1 seconds, 1/4 mile in 13.9 @ 101 mph, $30,000
I'm not sure where u got ur times on these two at, but, I have consistently seen times for a corvette Z at more at 0-60 in 4.2, w/ a quarter mi at 12.4, as for the camaro, it has a 345 also, not a 350, and the camaro ss has 325 hp, the Z28 has 310. Not that u were that far off, and that it matters a whole helluva lot,and not that i dont think u know ur cars or anythin, but its just a thing that kinda bugs me.
I guess i'd go for the ZO6, it was the first real hot rod sports car, its debut was in 1963 i believe, so it was the first of its kind, after that everyone started makin hot rods too, that and i guess i do have "CHEVY" engraved on my forehead.
Redlined_V8
12-11-2003, 01:19 AM
I just wanted to add one more thing..........good to see someone puttin out another american car post, especially w/ these cars. Our american cars are out running, and out handleing more and more of these european cars, Porsche, Ferrari, Jag, Mercedes, thats pretty impresive for our group of cars here, hell yeah. Dont see any jap cars out there runnin w/ the big boys, too busy pilin up money on their wittle wind-up engines.
Jimster
12-11-2003, 03:02 AM
Ford GT, just- It is a shockingly refined street cruiser, that doesn't have the same race car feel as a Ferrari 360, however (as stated by NZ Autocar 12/2003).
The Viper is also sweet, excellent bang for buck, lacking that extra bit of refinement.
All the rest are blah!
The Viper is also sweet, excellent bang for buck, lacking that extra bit of refinement.
All the rest are blah!
OoNismoO
12-11-2003, 04:23 AM
I just wanted to add one more thing..........good to see someone puttin out another american car post, especially w/ these cars. Our american cars are out running, and out handleing more and more of these european cars, Porsche, Ferrari, Jag, Mercedes, thats pretty impresive for our group of cars here, hell yeah. Dont see any jap cars out there runnin w/ the big boys, too busy pilin up money on their wittle wind-up engines.
why are you bringing up jap cars? why are you picking on them anyways? you know there are jap cars that can run with, or outrun porsche, ferraris, etc...
why are you bringing up jap cars? why are you picking on them anyways? you know there are jap cars that can run with, or outrun porsche, ferraris, etc...
justacruiser
12-11-2003, 03:47 PM
Well, the way they used to percieve a muscle car was cheap, affordable speed that would still get you and your friends/family where you wanted to go. So technically the Mustang and Camaro would be the only qualifiers on that scale. However if you want to go off of speed off of the factory floor, the GT gets it. Which will be more collectible in the future? The GT gets it again. Which one has the best bang for the buck? Probably the SVT Mustang in outright speed, with the Vette a close second because of it's much better handling. The reason I use prices, is that I don't care how rich you are, $80,000 or higher is not cheap. $55,000 still isn't too cheap, but it's not too bad either. I've always been just a bit practical in my car choices. I not only factor in the cars price and future depreciation and desirability, but how cheap it is to modify to go even faster than stock. In this category, the Mustangs and Camaros win hands down, with the Corvette next followed by either the Viper or the GT, (I would think, it's just a 5.4 mod motor w/ a supercharger).
jayjayjayjay
12-11-2003, 06:41 PM
I'm sorry about whatever is wrong with my posts, i got my info from motortrend mag test drives. I decided to do this post because jap and other european cars are taking all the light away from american cars, our cars can preform just as well as theirs.
Jimster
12-11-2003, 10:30 PM
I just wanted to add one more thing..........good to see someone puttin out another american car post, especially w/ these cars. Our american cars are out running, and out handleing more and more of these european cars, Porsche, Ferrari, Jag, Mercedes, thats pretty impresive for our group of cars here, hell yeah. Dont see any jap cars out there runnin w/ the big boys, too busy pilin up money on their wittle wind-up engines.
Sure they are big boy, sure they are :rolleyes:
When a muscle car runs 8.55 second 1/4's on street tyres, then I'll be impressed. And to say that American cars outhandle anything without driving both cars is ignorant, you can't measure handling, I have yet to encounter anything in America that handles better than a Boxster, yet alone a 911 GT3 or Ferrari 360 Modena, maybe the Ford GT or new Viper can hold that torch, only the time that I drive either one, will tell. But in the case of the GT, it seems as a race car, it fails to be as impressive as a base 360 Modena, by those who have driven it, aka the lucky few.
I like the GT and Viper A LOT, but I'm also trying to be realistic here
Sure they are big boy, sure they are :rolleyes:
When a muscle car runs 8.55 second 1/4's on street tyres, then I'll be impressed. And to say that American cars outhandle anything without driving both cars is ignorant, you can't measure handling, I have yet to encounter anything in America that handles better than a Boxster, yet alone a 911 GT3 or Ferrari 360 Modena, maybe the Ford GT or new Viper can hold that torch, only the time that I drive either one, will tell. But in the case of the GT, it seems as a race car, it fails to be as impressive as a base 360 Modena, by those who have driven it, aka the lucky few.
I like the GT and Viper A LOT, but I'm also trying to be realistic here
Mr Payne
12-12-2003, 07:56 AM
When a muscle car runs 8.55 second 1/4's on street tyres, then I'll be impressed.
Hard to impress, I guess. Hmmm, is it even possible for a rwd vehicle with street tires to get that time? In fact, how many 8 second rwd cars are actually driven on the street. I'm guessing a very low, low number.
Hard to impress, I guess. Hmmm, is it even possible for a rwd vehicle with street tires to get that time? In fact, how many 8 second rwd cars are actually driven on the street. I'm guessing a very low, low number.
Kurtdg19
12-12-2003, 08:55 PM
Hard to impress, I guess. Hmmm, is it even possible for a rwd vehicle with street tires to get that time? In fact, how many 8 second rwd cars are actually driven on the street. I'm guessing a very low, low number.
That would be tough indeed to get a 8.55 sec quarter on street tires. Maybe a AWD car could hook a sub 9 second quarter on street tires. I would guess that a heavily modded skyline may be able to pull that (considering the insane hp that engine can handle), but other than that...thats a feat for any rwd car, american or not.
By the way are we talking about some good DOTs, or standard street tires? And what car did run this damn nice time on street tires?
That would be tough indeed to get a 8.55 sec quarter on street tires. Maybe a AWD car could hook a sub 9 second quarter on street tires. I would guess that a heavily modded skyline may be able to pull that (considering the insane hp that engine can handle), but other than that...thats a feat for any rwd car, american or not.
By the way are we talking about some good DOTs, or standard street tires? And what car did run this damn nice time on street tires?
Mr Payne
12-13-2003, 07:17 AM
Now that I think about it. It seems very possible. Stroked/Bored, Blown, and a large shot of n2o(300+) on a big block(600+ cubes). You'd probably be making 1800hp+ and you'd need the fattest set of ET streets imaginable......but sure, it'd be possible.
syr74
12-13-2003, 10:42 AM
I think from the comparissons they have pretty much stated that the GT is a far more compelling vehicle than the Modena. I will back this up with the statement made early in the comparo between the GT3 and Ferrari Stradale that it "Wasn't even close". Not a difficult statement to understand.
With the Ford GT getting a significant hp increase in the very near future I only expect the ultimiate Ford to get even more "perfect". The fact that I could also pick up a Navigator for the price differential between the GT and the Stradale only makes the Ford that much more attractive.
While the Viper and GT were as close as you get down the 1/4 in their comparo, and the Viper even stopped in a shorter distance, I don't think a road course comparisson would be kind to the Dodge.
Also, read the tester's own words where they mention that the braking test was somewhat "loaded" as the Viper's braking was tested on a stickier surface. However, with the startling performance the Viper offered up I would only hope that the GT's braking could equal it, not surpass it.
Again, around a road course, I doubt the Viper would stand too much of a chance against the GT as if I understand correctly the Stradale is generally considered faster around a road course than the Viper. And, the GT is significantly faster than the Stradale.
Yes, the Viper Competition Coupe will be coming soon. But, so will the stouter Ford GT with more hp than the current model. So, one can only expect that things are only going to get more interesting.
However, I wonder how long these new age hp wars can go on without the insurance companies or the EPA doing what they did in the early seventies? Not too long I would guess.
With the Ford GT getting a significant hp increase in the very near future I only expect the ultimiate Ford to get even more "perfect". The fact that I could also pick up a Navigator for the price differential between the GT and the Stradale only makes the Ford that much more attractive.
While the Viper and GT were as close as you get down the 1/4 in their comparo, and the Viper even stopped in a shorter distance, I don't think a road course comparisson would be kind to the Dodge.
Also, read the tester's own words where they mention that the braking test was somewhat "loaded" as the Viper's braking was tested on a stickier surface. However, with the startling performance the Viper offered up I would only hope that the GT's braking could equal it, not surpass it.
Again, around a road course, I doubt the Viper would stand too much of a chance against the GT as if I understand correctly the Stradale is generally considered faster around a road course than the Viper. And, the GT is significantly faster than the Stradale.
Yes, the Viper Competition Coupe will be coming soon. But, so will the stouter Ford GT with more hp than the current model. So, one can only expect that things are only going to get more interesting.
However, I wonder how long these new age hp wars can go on without the insurance companies or the EPA doing what they did in the early seventies? Not too long I would guess.
Neutrino
12-13-2003, 01:53 PM
What turns me off about ford is their whole bs marketing about the GT....
fisrt of all...they won some races many years ago against ferrari...so what....ferrari has been a name in races more respected than anyone else...they have dominated in so many races so many years including their recent F1 domination...but to hear ford put it those Le Mans wins are the only races that counted in history
if ford is so much superior why don't they just crush Ferrari in F1...they are present as jaguar.....
and well not duh it was able to beat the modena its a platform 4 years newer than the modena and it has 75 more horses and 215 lbs torque and that race had 3 straight aways...well of course it won
btw did anyone read the course chart...the ferrari was the fastest in turns...so it still dominates there...again impresive for a 4 year old platform
so don't get me wrong...the GT is a very good car...but what turns me off from it its fords marketing not the car itself.....if i hear them self congratulating themselves one more time i'm gonna puke
fisrt of all...they won some races many years ago against ferrari...so what....ferrari has been a name in races more respected than anyone else...they have dominated in so many races so many years including their recent F1 domination...but to hear ford put it those Le Mans wins are the only races that counted in history
if ford is so much superior why don't they just crush Ferrari in F1...they are present as jaguar.....
and well not duh it was able to beat the modena its a platform 4 years newer than the modena and it has 75 more horses and 215 lbs torque and that race had 3 straight aways...well of course it won
btw did anyone read the course chart...the ferrari was the fastest in turns...so it still dominates there...again impresive for a 4 year old platform
so don't get me wrong...the GT is a very good car...but what turns me off from it its fords marketing not the car itself.....if i hear them self congratulating themselves one more time i'm gonna puke
Kurtdg19
12-13-2003, 03:48 PM
and well not duh it was able to beat the modena its a platform 4 years newer than the modena and it has 75 more horses and 215 lbs torque and that race had 3 straight aways...well of course it won
A newer platform doesn't necessarily mean its a superior car. So are you saying its unfair simply because the Modena is older and this track consisted of a few straights?
btw did anyone read the course chart...the ferrari was the fastest in turns...so it still dominates there...again impresive for a 4 year old platform
What? I have the course chart in front of me and I don't know where your getting that the Modena is fastest in the turns. The only place the ferrari was fastest was after turn 2, and the 8/9 S transition. The GT3 pulled the best grip (1.33g) on the slightly cambered turn 7, and the Ford was pretty much equal or faster everywhere else. Out of these three cars the Ferrari finished LAST, even being beat by the heavier and less powerful GT3.
And if you read further into it they will say that the Ford's corner-exit speeds were almost always higher than the others. The Ferarri didn't dominate anything in this matchup.
A newer platform doesn't necessarily mean its a superior car. So are you saying its unfair simply because the Modena is older and this track consisted of a few straights?
btw did anyone read the course chart...the ferrari was the fastest in turns...so it still dominates there...again impresive for a 4 year old platform
What? I have the course chart in front of me and I don't know where your getting that the Modena is fastest in the turns. The only place the ferrari was fastest was after turn 2, and the 8/9 S transition. The GT3 pulled the best grip (1.33g) on the slightly cambered turn 7, and the Ford was pretty much equal or faster everywhere else. Out of these three cars the Ferrari finished LAST, even being beat by the heavier and less powerful GT3.
And if you read further into it they will say that the Ford's corner-exit speeds were almost always higher than the others. The Ferarri didn't dominate anything in this matchup.
Neutrino
12-13-2003, 04:22 PM
A newer platform doesn't necessarily mean its a superior car. So are you saying its unfair simply because the Modena is older and this track consisted of a few straights?
What? I have the course chart in front of me and I don't know where your getting that the Modena is fastest in the turns. The only place the ferrari was fastest was after turn 2, and the 8/9 S transition. The GT3 pulled the best grip (1.33g) on the slightly cambered turn 7, and the Ford was pretty much equal or faster everywhere else. Out of these three cars the Ferrari finished LAST, even being beat by the heavier and less powerful GT3.
And if you read further into it they will say that the Ford's corner-exit speeds were almost always higher than the others. The Ferarri didn't dominate anything in this matchup.
i'm not saing its unfair...i'm saing that was nothing unexpected...its normal for a newer car with a way biger and engine and a supercharger to beat the modena...i'm just saing that ford need to get off the pedestal they put themslves and stop kissing their own asses...they act like they can destroy Ferrari on a whim...when all they acheived was to beat ferrari's lowest oldest car in the lineup
if you want supremacy over ferrari go after the in F1 or go after their flagship car
and about the straights...this was obviously a high speed course giving the gt further advantage...i'm not saing it would be different on a low speed course since i don't have any proof...i was just making a comment
about the straights look again...turn 2 ferrari fastest, transition 8 again ferrari was fastest turn 1 and 10 gt and modena were equal
the only advantage the gt had was on the straights and at turn exits due to its massive power advantage
so again i'm not atatcking the gt...its obviosly a very fast car...my complaint is with ford.....they need to stop their attitude...its very anoying
oh there is one other thing about this test...it was not done by profesinal drivers....they need to learn fom motor trend and get top level drivers like Justin Bell
What? I have the course chart in front of me and I don't know where your getting that the Modena is fastest in the turns. The only place the ferrari was fastest was after turn 2, and the 8/9 S transition. The GT3 pulled the best grip (1.33g) on the slightly cambered turn 7, and the Ford was pretty much equal or faster everywhere else. Out of these three cars the Ferrari finished LAST, even being beat by the heavier and less powerful GT3.
And if you read further into it they will say that the Ford's corner-exit speeds were almost always higher than the others. The Ferarri didn't dominate anything in this matchup.
i'm not saing its unfair...i'm saing that was nothing unexpected...its normal for a newer car with a way biger and engine and a supercharger to beat the modena...i'm just saing that ford need to get off the pedestal they put themslves and stop kissing their own asses...they act like they can destroy Ferrari on a whim...when all they acheived was to beat ferrari's lowest oldest car in the lineup
if you want supremacy over ferrari go after the in F1 or go after their flagship car
and about the straights...this was obviously a high speed course giving the gt further advantage...i'm not saing it would be different on a low speed course since i don't have any proof...i was just making a comment
about the straights look again...turn 2 ferrari fastest, transition 8 again ferrari was fastest turn 1 and 10 gt and modena were equal
the only advantage the gt had was on the straights and at turn exits due to its massive power advantage
so again i'm not atatcking the gt...its obviosly a very fast car...my complaint is with ford.....they need to stop their attitude...its very anoying
oh there is one other thing about this test...it was not done by profesinal drivers....they need to learn fom motor trend and get top level drivers like Justin Bell
OoNismoO
12-13-2003, 04:41 PM
also, skidpad numbers, and measuring handling does show a lot of the cars ability, but not all of it. the gt corners good, its got the power band to pull out of corners, and its got the advantange on the straights, with advantages like this, it shouldnt be a suprise for it to come out on top. does anyone have the official curb weight for the gt40?
Neutrino
12-13-2003, 05:36 PM
does anyone have the official curb weight for the gt40?
3429 lbs
but anyway but to the original topic....i pick the viper
big bore NA engine with a super flat torque curve....IMO that is the closest to what american muscle should be
3429 lbs
but anyway but to the original topic....i pick the viper
big bore NA engine with a super flat torque curve....IMO that is the closest to what american muscle should be
syr74
12-13-2003, 10:45 PM
Neutrino, my only problem with your advice that Ford go after Ferrari's flagship car is you mean for Ford to either go after the Maranello, which the Stradale is a whole lot faster than, or the nearly one-million dollar Enzo.
Do I believe the Enzo would beat the GT? Yes. Do I believe it would be by an enormous amount? No. Do I believe it would justify a 700,000 dollar price difference between the two cars? Are you kidding?
IMO this was the kindest comparo in respect to Ferrari, that could be done between a road going Ferrari and the new GT. Frankly, when the GT gets the horsepower boost that Ford has already said is inevitable within the next year or so...... if it is more than about 100 horsepower (which seems likely) then I would love to see the GT take on the Enzo. As the Ford might well take the mighty Ferrari with that kind of horsepower edge. Time will indeed tell.
As for now. If I was Bill Ford and crew I would be congratulating myself silly. As should any car company that can build an automobile as fine as the GT, the GT3, or the Stradale.
Do I believe the Enzo would beat the GT? Yes. Do I believe it would be by an enormous amount? No. Do I believe it would justify a 700,000 dollar price difference between the two cars? Are you kidding?
IMO this was the kindest comparo in respect to Ferrari, that could be done between a road going Ferrari and the new GT. Frankly, when the GT gets the horsepower boost that Ford has already said is inevitable within the next year or so...... if it is more than about 100 horsepower (which seems likely) then I would love to see the GT take on the Enzo. As the Ford might well take the mighty Ferrari with that kind of horsepower edge. Time will indeed tell.
As for now. If I was Bill Ford and crew I would be congratulating myself silly. As should any car company that can build an automobile as fine as the GT, the GT3, or the Stradale.
Neutrino
12-14-2003, 01:24 AM
As for now. If I was Bill Ford and crew I would be congratulating myself silly. As should any car company that can build an automobile as fine as the GT, the GT3, or the Stradale.
do you see the ferrari claiming in every magazine article covering a ferrari that they can crush any manufacturer just because they have arguably the best super car in existance of the fact that they dominated trougly the number 1 automotive sport? No
Do you see ford claiming they can crush ferrari in every Ford GT magazine article because they won the le mans many years ago? Yes
it might be good marketing....but to me its just shows lack of class
but enough...lets get back to the original topic of this thread...and as stated earlier as american muscle i choose viper...
resons....Big bore
NA
Torque Curve as flat as a carrier deck
do you see the ferrari claiming in every magazine article covering a ferrari that they can crush any manufacturer just because they have arguably the best super car in existance of the fact that they dominated trougly the number 1 automotive sport? No
Do you see ford claiming they can crush ferrari in every Ford GT magazine article because they won the le mans many years ago? Yes
it might be good marketing....but to me its just shows lack of class
but enough...lets get back to the original topic of this thread...and as stated earlier as american muscle i choose viper...
resons....Big bore
NA
Torque Curve as flat as a carrier deck
nacho_nissan
12-14-2003, 09:43 PM
I see everyone talkin bout ford's future..Everyone says they will put 500hp on a mustang GT,and everything will increase crazy,lets see if thats all true..
chopstick1981
12-15-2003, 11:04 PM
Im gonna have to cast my vote for the camaro because its LS1 is pretty much the same as a vette's LS6 except for the heads. So with a little work on the top end its running just as fast as a viper for a lot less money than all the others. I believe a "muscle car" can't just be bought factory stock, it has to built in your garage, thats the defintion of a true muscle car.
Polygon
12-16-2003, 06:42 PM
I believe a "muscle car" can't just be bought factory stock, it has to built in your garage, thats the defintion of a true muscle car.
Nope, that would be a hot rod.
Nope, that would be a hot rod.
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