Ae86
RACER D12
12-06-2003, 07:39 AM
(I also posted this in the toyota forum but im not getting any responses)
Their is an AE86 for sale down the street from me. I could not believe my eyes when I saw it. I could not stop at the time but from the out side it didnt look to bad for 15+ year old car. You know it needs paint and some minor body work but not to bad. Im going next weak to get details but I could care less if it runs or not. I want to do a total rebuild this would be my first but I have a friend who is a mechanic. Anyways I want to know the strengths and weaknesses of the AE86. Like does it have a weak transmission or what kind of potential does the motor have? A dont know much about the AE86 other than Initial D stuff So any info you guys could give me would be great.
Their is an AE86 for sale down the street from me. I could not believe my eyes when I saw it. I could not stop at the time but from the out side it didnt look to bad for 15+ year old car. You know it needs paint and some minor body work but not to bad. Im going next weak to get details but I could care less if it runs or not. I want to do a total rebuild this would be my first but I have a friend who is a mechanic. Anyways I want to know the strengths and weaknesses of the AE86. Like does it have a weak transmission or what kind of potential does the motor have? A dont know much about the AE86 other than Initial D stuff So any info you guys could give me would be great.
Neutrino
12-06-2003, 07:48 AM
well first make sure its got the dohc engine and not the sohc one
RACER D12
12-06-2003, 08:06 AM
It should say dotch right on the block right?
Neutrino
12-06-2003, 08:11 AM
yeah...it should on the valve cover
plus the dohc heads are vay wider than the sohc
as a rule of thumb if the head narrows at the top is sohc and if its squarish its dohc
plus the dohc heads are vay wider than the sohc
as a rule of thumb if the head narrows at the top is sohc and if its squarish its dohc
Amish_kid
12-06-2003, 08:44 AM
Sohc would be a SR5 I think and to top that off it's carb'd .
RACER D12
12-06-2003, 09:01 PM
Can I get any more info?
2of9
12-06-2003, 09:16 PM
it can drift on turns at 80+ MPH!!!hahahahaha.....
fatninja19
12-07-2003, 06:05 AM
the AE86 you want is the GTS. Comes with the 4AGE motor. Doesn't make all that much power, so the 4AGZE motor from the supercharged Mr2's are a popular swap. The ae86 handles excellent, and has a near 50/50 weight balance if I'm not mistaken..
Cbass
12-07-2003, 04:07 PM
The AE86 is by no means a good pick if you want a really fast car... It's all about the handling. It's a very stable, lightweight car with very good handling characteristics.
The stock engine makes around 120hp, but can be tuned to around 150hp with bolt ons, porting, etc. After this point, you're looking at raising the compression and changing out the cams, so it's not really worth it. If you feel like swapping out the pistons, than turbocharging may be the route for you. You can get about 300hp from a turbocharged 4A-GE, although it gets pretty peaky at that level of output, and you lose most of your low end.
The 4A-GZE is just a 4A-GE with lower compression, and a supercharger. You can do the bolt ons, and overdrive the supercharger to get around 220hp, which is damned good power in a 2100lb car. If you want to spend a bit, get some nice 8:1 forged pistons, and a large trim T3, and run a twincharge setup like HKS did. Not all that expensive, and not all that hard really, and you wind up with a very streetable 300hp.
The trick with the Hachi is to exploit it's low weight, drop weight everywhere you can, and get big tires, and you'll have the recipe for an awesome sports car. Add more power, and you have a very competitive machine.
If you want a peppy car with great handling, you can't go wrong with the GTS. If you feel like putting more money into and getting more speed out of it, a SR5 with a 4A-GZE swap and brake/suspension upgrades will be good.
The stock engine makes around 120hp, but can be tuned to around 150hp with bolt ons, porting, etc. After this point, you're looking at raising the compression and changing out the cams, so it's not really worth it. If you feel like swapping out the pistons, than turbocharging may be the route for you. You can get about 300hp from a turbocharged 4A-GE, although it gets pretty peaky at that level of output, and you lose most of your low end.
The 4A-GZE is just a 4A-GE with lower compression, and a supercharger. You can do the bolt ons, and overdrive the supercharger to get around 220hp, which is damned good power in a 2100lb car. If you want to spend a bit, get some nice 8:1 forged pistons, and a large trim T3, and run a twincharge setup like HKS did. Not all that expensive, and not all that hard really, and you wind up with a very streetable 300hp.
The trick with the Hachi is to exploit it's low weight, drop weight everywhere you can, and get big tires, and you'll have the recipe for an awesome sports car. Add more power, and you have a very competitive machine.
If you want a peppy car with great handling, you can't go wrong with the GTS. If you feel like putting more money into and getting more speed out of it, a SR5 with a 4A-GZE swap and brake/suspension upgrades will be good.
RACER D12
12-07-2003, 05:06 PM
Ok so it sounds like if I do buy this car I will want to do and engine swap, because I do also want a fast car. So what year MR2s would have the 4A-GZE? Will it be a hard motor to find? Also what other motor options are their? Could I do say a SR or KA swap?
Ace$nyper
12-07-2003, 05:31 PM
yea SR can be done hmm no linky to help though best bet is just 4a-ge with blower.
Layla's Keeper
12-07-2003, 05:40 PM
Well, Nissan to Toyota swaps aren't particularly easy, and you'll have to get friendly with a welder and torch because it falls into the "Ain't no kit, sonny" territory.
Mister Twos that have the 4AGZE are the supercharged models produced in 1988 and 1989. They're fairly rare, and as such are prized by both MR2 owners and AE86 owners alike.
A better bet, if you want to go the factory supercharger route, might actually be to hunt down NOS parts (that's New Old Stock, for those of you who don't restore cars) and attach that to your 4AGE. A bandaid for the compression ratio (you'll have higher compression than a ZE, so you'll have a potential detonation problem) is to use a thicker head gasket (usually you can play with compression ratios by a few tenths by running a head gasket a few mm thinner or thicker than stock).
Naturally, though, eventually you'll want to tear into the engine and do it proper.
What i don't grasp, though, is why people instantly think an engine swap is the simplest route to more power. With the high level of computerization, even in cars a decade or even two decades old, you've got so much room for error and for failure it becomes a mess before you start. We're not talking about a carbed Chevy 350 with a magneto that can practically run on its own sans car, we're talking about swapping in not only an engine, but near the whole frickin' wiring harness. Computers, sensors, coil packs, all of that nonsense has to come out of the donor car and be spliced in with the stuff already in the recipient. It's complex, expensive, and incredibly time consuming.
You'll have a much easier time of it working on the 4AGE. I've had my hands in one of those engines in a MR2, and they respond well to a little intake/exhaust work and really come to life with a hotter pair of cams. If you take a bit of the slop out of the driveline and pull some weight out of the car, you'll have a real little terror in its class.
Trust me, swaps are for people with both experience and money. If you have neither, don't try it.
Mister Twos that have the 4AGZE are the supercharged models produced in 1988 and 1989. They're fairly rare, and as such are prized by both MR2 owners and AE86 owners alike.
A better bet, if you want to go the factory supercharger route, might actually be to hunt down NOS parts (that's New Old Stock, for those of you who don't restore cars) and attach that to your 4AGE. A bandaid for the compression ratio (you'll have higher compression than a ZE, so you'll have a potential detonation problem) is to use a thicker head gasket (usually you can play with compression ratios by a few tenths by running a head gasket a few mm thinner or thicker than stock).
Naturally, though, eventually you'll want to tear into the engine and do it proper.
What i don't grasp, though, is why people instantly think an engine swap is the simplest route to more power. With the high level of computerization, even in cars a decade or even two decades old, you've got so much room for error and for failure it becomes a mess before you start. We're not talking about a carbed Chevy 350 with a magneto that can practically run on its own sans car, we're talking about swapping in not only an engine, but near the whole frickin' wiring harness. Computers, sensors, coil packs, all of that nonsense has to come out of the donor car and be spliced in with the stuff already in the recipient. It's complex, expensive, and incredibly time consuming.
You'll have a much easier time of it working on the 4AGE. I've had my hands in one of those engines in a MR2, and they respond well to a little intake/exhaust work and really come to life with a hotter pair of cams. If you take a bit of the slop out of the driveline and pull some weight out of the car, you'll have a real little terror in its class.
Trust me, swaps are for people with both experience and money. If you have neither, don't try it.
RACER D12
12-07-2003, 05:54 PM
About how much would it cost then to turbo the 4A-GE? Also I thought the 4A-GE was a good motor with alot of potential? At least thats what I heard. Anyways how much hp would I need to make to run 13s?. Now before I get flamed I know the GTS is not about drag, but I want my GTS to be well rounded and with how light the car is I dont think 13s is that much to ask.
Layla's Keeper
12-08-2003, 01:21 PM
You heard right. The 4AGE is an excellent motor. But you're still only talking about a 1600cc four. You can pull a very streetable 150-185hp out of it naturally aspirated and that'd be enough to get either a MkI Mister Two or a HachiRoku really moving. Because the 'Rokus are light, RWD, and have an astonishing level of suspension grip (needs wider tires, though) they can do some amazing things.
My Dad, a GLH Omni driver, listed the GT-S Corollas amongst the cars he (and the three other GLH guys he hung out with) hated to line up against. While the GLH Omni had that great 2.2L Chryco SOHC torque monster and monstrous Goodyear Gatorback tires, the GT-S Corollas had top end revs like there was no tomorrow and RWD to keep things even off the launch.
Keep in mind, this was 1985-1992 when this was all going down. It wasn't until a little FF box from Nissan showed up on the scene that my Dad felt the GLH had finally been eclipsed.
13's may be pushing it on stock internals, but if you're going the turbocharging route you won't be using stock internals anyways. When you're bolting any sort of forced induction onto an engine, you're stressing the whole reciprocating assembly like nothing before. If you go that route, pull the engine and have it fully rebuilt with aftermarket pieces along the lines of a billet crank, forged rods and pistons, and go to better head studs like ARP's. Also, a secondary oil cooler and more powerful oil pump are a huge must to keep the engine and turbocharger lubricated thoroughly. You'll probably want to go to a larger aluminum radiator, and of course intercooling.
The potential for turbocharging is there, and the basics of it aren't difficult, but keep in mind that this is a higher mileage, near 20 year old car. You can't just go tossing parts at it willy-nilly without risking terminal failure.
My Dad, a GLH Omni driver, listed the GT-S Corollas amongst the cars he (and the three other GLH guys he hung out with) hated to line up against. While the GLH Omni had that great 2.2L Chryco SOHC torque monster and monstrous Goodyear Gatorback tires, the GT-S Corollas had top end revs like there was no tomorrow and RWD to keep things even off the launch.
Keep in mind, this was 1985-1992 when this was all going down. It wasn't until a little FF box from Nissan showed up on the scene that my Dad felt the GLH had finally been eclipsed.
13's may be pushing it on stock internals, but if you're going the turbocharging route you won't be using stock internals anyways. When you're bolting any sort of forced induction onto an engine, you're stressing the whole reciprocating assembly like nothing before. If you go that route, pull the engine and have it fully rebuilt with aftermarket pieces along the lines of a billet crank, forged rods and pistons, and go to better head studs like ARP's. Also, a secondary oil cooler and more powerful oil pump are a huge must to keep the engine and turbocharger lubricated thoroughly. You'll probably want to go to a larger aluminum radiator, and of course intercooling.
The potential for turbocharging is there, and the basics of it aren't difficult, but keep in mind that this is a higher mileage, near 20 year old car. You can't just go tossing parts at it willy-nilly without risking terminal failure.
carrrnuttt
12-08-2003, 02:45 PM
It wasn't until a little FF box from Nissan showed up on the scene that my Dad felt the GLH had finally been eclipsed.
Huh? What car was this? No way!
:p
Huh? What car was this? No way!
:p
RACER D12
12-08-2003, 03:30 PM
Will parts be expensive or hard to find?
Layla's Keeper
12-08-2003, 06:40 PM
It depends on which parts you buy, D12. The best I can do for you is this.
http://www.corollaperformanceparts.com/
That's a link to an AE86 specialty shop that stocks a lot of what you'll want to look for.
Also, here's plenty of information on the history of the 4AG, plus common modifications. It'll help give you a good idea as to what you can indeed do.
http://www.toysport.com/Technical%20Information/4ag_tech_notes.htm
http://www.corollaperformanceparts.com/
That's a link to an AE86 specialty shop that stocks a lot of what you'll want to look for.
Also, here's plenty of information on the history of the 4AG, plus common modifications. It'll help give you a good idea as to what you can indeed do.
http://www.toysport.com/Technical%20Information/4ag_tech_notes.htm
RACER D12
12-08-2003, 06:51 PM
Thanx Octagon these links are very helpful
Edit:So it sounds like Superchargering is the way to go. 350hp out of a twin charger set up is alot for a little car like the GTS. I dont think I want that much power but 200+ sounds good.
Edit:So it sounds like Superchargering is the way to go. 350hp out of a twin charger set up is alot for a little car like the GTS. I dont think I want that much power but 200+ sounds good.
RACER D12
12-11-2003, 05:22 PM
I went and looked at the car today and its not an AE86 but a supra/celica :sly: I didnt know the supra came in a hatch back. As I walked up to it it looked like a AE86 but had supra-celica symbols all over it and on the inside. Everything on it and in it looks AE86, but it says supra-celica and I dont think the guy put them on because its on the inside too. So can I get some info on this car im still interested because its stick, little and if its a supra must have a quick motor. Also I have never seen one like this and it would be cool to be different. (And I love flip up lights :icon16: )
Layla's Keeper
12-11-2003, 10:51 PM
Okay, the Celica Supras were the first two generations of Supra. Judging by the fact that you said it had pop-ups, then I'm going to guess it was a MkII Supra like this one.
http://www.celicasupra.com/images/ScottCustomBlupra.jpg
If so, you've got a stone-strong and torquey straight-six to work with and a solid 5speed trans. There's a healthy aftermarket and the cars are highly stable at speed. The torque in the six is enough to break loose the rear tires, and the steering is quick enough for drifting. I've seen a couple of them drag racing, too. So they're pretty versatile. Definitely a good buy.
http://www.celicasupra.com/images/ScottCustomBlupra.jpg
If so, you've got a stone-strong and torquey straight-six to work with and a solid 5speed trans. There's a healthy aftermarket and the cars are highly stable at speed. The torque in the six is enough to break loose the rear tires, and the steering is quick enough for drifting. I've seen a couple of them drag racing, too. So they're pretty versatile. Definitely a good buy.
Cbass
12-12-2003, 09:41 AM
MK2 Supras are quite heavy though, in the neighbourhood of 2800-300lbs, depending on model.
I would really advise against turbocharging the 4A-GE, it's a small oversquare motor, designed to make power at high rpms. If you lower the compression and turbocharged it, you are going to have serious lag issues, and a complete lack of low end power.
The 4A-GZE has none of these problems, as well as a much stronger shortblock. If you want to go the turbo route, your best bet is to get a 4A-GZE to start with. The 4A-GZE swap is a bolt in, since it's just a supercharged variant of the same motor. If you're just looking for a bit over 200hp to run 13s, the 4A-GZE is the cheapest and most driveable choice, a little porting, the TRD header, overdrive the blower a bit, and upgrade to better exhaust, and 230hp is not hard. These upgrades are pretty cheap, the header is a couple hundred, another couple hundred to have the head work done, a couple hundred to buy the exhaust, the smaller supercharger pulley is around $90 IIRC.
Also, they're cheap like Borscht ;)
http://www.osakajdmmotors.com/other/index.html
$650 and it will bolt right up to the stock tranny. The hard part of the swap is the wiring, and figuring out what to do about the intercooler. You can go front mount, install a hoodscoop, etc.
I would really advise against turbocharging the 4A-GE, it's a small oversquare motor, designed to make power at high rpms. If you lower the compression and turbocharged it, you are going to have serious lag issues, and a complete lack of low end power.
The 4A-GZE has none of these problems, as well as a much stronger shortblock. If you want to go the turbo route, your best bet is to get a 4A-GZE to start with. The 4A-GZE swap is a bolt in, since it's just a supercharged variant of the same motor. If you're just looking for a bit over 200hp to run 13s, the 4A-GZE is the cheapest and most driveable choice, a little porting, the TRD header, overdrive the blower a bit, and upgrade to better exhaust, and 230hp is not hard. These upgrades are pretty cheap, the header is a couple hundred, another couple hundred to have the head work done, a couple hundred to buy the exhaust, the smaller supercharger pulley is around $90 IIRC.
Also, they're cheap like Borscht ;)
http://www.osakajdmmotors.com/other/index.html
$650 and it will bolt right up to the stock tranny. The hard part of the swap is the wiring, and figuring out what to do about the intercooler. You can go front mount, install a hoodscoop, etc.
RACER D12
12-12-2003, 09:48 AM
Ok well I will keep my eye on it. The guy still is undesided if he wants to sell it because he said he might fix it up (he owns a garage) so I will wait and see. Im in no hury I dont even get my permit till march :mad: but I would like to get something soon cause if I have to do a rebuild it will take awhile.
Edit: Cbass i am still looking for a GTS also but they are hard to find. Plus most cars around here that old are rusted out! (CT gets snow)
Edit: Cbass i am still looking for a GTS also but they are hard to find. Plus most cars around here that old are rusted out! (CT gets snow)
fatninja19
12-12-2003, 02:38 PM
Im in no hury I dont even get my permit till march :mad:
Holy crap, thats a long ass time!!!! And even longer before you can drive yourself!! Ahh.. that sucks.
And I've been saying 4agze from the beggining!!! :banghead:
hahahhaa
Holy crap, thats a long ass time!!!! And even longer before you can drive yourself!! Ahh.. that sucks.
And I've been saying 4agze from the beggining!!! :banghead:
hahahhaa
Amish_kid
12-12-2003, 05:59 PM
Okay, the Celica Supras were the first two generations of Supra. Judging by the fact that you said it had pop-ups, then I'm going to guess it was a MkII Supra like this one.
http://www.celicasupra.com/images/ScottCustomBlupra.jpg
If so, you've got a stone-strong and torquey straight-six to work with and a solid 5speed trans. There's a healthy aftermarket and the cars are highly stable at speed. The torque in the six is enough to break loose the rear tires, and the steering is quick enough for drifting. I've seen a couple of them drag racing, too. So they're pretty versatile. Definitely a good buy.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the MkII's come with the 5m which were V6's and not Inline 6's?
:sly:
And Btw mkII's are uber sexy in black like this one http://www.celicasupra.com/damonmeet3/images/DSCF0363.jpg
http://www.celicasupra.com/images/ScottCustomBlupra.jpg
If so, you've got a stone-strong and torquey straight-six to work with and a solid 5speed trans. There's a healthy aftermarket and the cars are highly stable at speed. The torque in the six is enough to break loose the rear tires, and the steering is quick enough for drifting. I've seen a couple of them drag racing, too. So they're pretty versatile. Definitely a good buy.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the MkII's come with the 5m which were V6's and not Inline 6's?
:sly:
And Btw mkII's are uber sexy in black like this one http://www.celicasupra.com/damonmeet3/images/DSCF0363.jpg
RACER D12
12-12-2003, 06:52 PM
could you down size that a bit
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