turbo for L4

lookin for a turbo for my 84. i tried to find one from a mid 80's turbo thunderbird but came up short. whats a common car that has a displacement of 1.8 to 2.5 that i could get one from?

Aren't Eclipse's in that range?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Don't turbo the Iron Duke, ESPECIALLY the 84's! They can't handle enough boost to justify using them. Pontiac tried it in 84. Pfaff turbo's had a kit that was dealer installed, but it turned the car's into ticking time bombs.

Do something like what I'm doing; a turbo 2.2 Ecotec, or what somepeople are doing with Quad 4's. You'll be glad you did.

right now in the mall section of PFF (www.fiero.nl) there is a full turbo kit forsale, used and cheap. cheak it out

what about the 2.0L ecotec SC engines that GM will be spitting out soon?

do the ecotec engines bolt up or do you need a special kit?

2.5's will handle forced aspiration if they're rebuilt with super duty four(what used to be called Pontiac Racing, now generically lumped into the GM performance parts catalog) innards.

As for ecotecs, modern OBD II computer systems will only work properly in the vehicle they came out of!!!!! (I've said that so many times I feel like a broken record)

If you can put an ls1, ls6, 3.8sc or a 3.8na in a fiero I am very sure you can put an ecotec in there. I am not worried about obd2 or the wiring as of yet, just will it bolt in or do I need a special tranny/motor mount?

No. While 3800's have the same bolt pattern as a 2.8, and there are plenty of Chevy sb (be it ls1, ls6, or whatever) kits out there since the engine block has been only lightly modified in it's near half a century life, the ecotec is a all new, state of the art horse of a different color. The bell housing pattern doesn't match any of the stock Fiero trannys. The tranny will have to come out of a cavalier,malibu etc and you'll end up needing a recalibrated vehicle speed sensor if you plan to run other then the stock wheel and tire size the donor car had. You'll need custom welded motor/tranny mount points, and custom fabricated cv axels.

coop, one thing I didn't think of before: there are certain bugs to turbocharging a TBI engine. The big one is when you let off the gas the turbo is still winding down and pushing a little boost. All that extra air and not enough fuel to go with it makes for a really lean fuel mixture and is hard on the engine. This isn't a problem on MFI engines where the point of fuel entry is after the throttle plate.

could you go with a bigger waste gate or maybe even 2 to let that boost off when you let off the gas? oh and i found a super duty short block so i dont have to worry about any timebombs ticking.

or run a richer fuel/air mix

maybe ill just supercharge it

You could supercharge it, a centrifugal blower would fit in place of the AC compressor, or where the power steering pump would go if it was a FWD engine.

There are 2 ways to minimize the lean effects during turbo wind down, one is a nice big pop off valve - about $20- $100, the other, while being the best, is also more expensive - a fully programmable computerized turbo management system. They're about $600.00

Either way, turbo or supercharged, you will need a custom ecm prom made to properly manage fuel injection and spark timing - otherwise, when that turbo winds up for the first time and the stock ecm sees the MAP reading skyrocket it's gonna have a nervous breakdown.

yeah i figured a big blowoff valve would be good enough

It does the trick. Upgrade your valves and port the exhaust passages to avoid burnt exhaust valves caused by extra combustion chamber heat from the minor lean spot.

I'm new to the Fiero forum... reason being i just purchased an 1988 Fiero GT 2.8 liter, 5 speed tranny. It has 74,000 original miles on it. I was also curious about putting a turbo on it, but i'm not familiar all that much with fiero's. What would be a decent setup i could install? Would it have to be custom or could i use a turbo system off of other factory cars.

2.8 Turbo kits are getting rare. The stock turbo setup from a 3.1 might fit.... they are kinda rare though.... And you'll still need a new prom. Try eBay???

i would tear that engine down and go through it if i were you. if somthing is worn its gonna ruin it.

you could use about any turbo designed for an engine of roughly the same displacement and get a custom setup made or diy if you can. but like RAGTOP said you will need to get a custom prom made also.

i have a 87 fiero (IRON DUKE) and i wanted to put a small turbo from a Plymouth Voyager also a 2.5. whats the worst that could happen to my engine, what did you mean when you said that they can't handle it,

a certain engine "can't handle" a turbo for lots of reasons. the internal components might not be strong enough (i.e. connecting rods, pistons, push rods, lifters, and the such) to with stand the extra force applied to them from the increase in torque and hp. and the increase in compression from the extra air can blow out a headgasket or mess up valves. or "throw a rod"

When you refer to boost as in an engine not being able to handle it what do you define enough boost to make an engine poop out it's internals? my friend was looking at a 7psi kit that he found on the net (included bored out injectors) is this something that will make the engine picture toilets every time you give it lots of throttle?

7 psi should be ok. ive seen a site where they had 10 psi but they uped the timing back so they wouldnt have premture detenation

i have a 87 fiero (IRON DUKE) and i wanted to put a small turbo from a Plymouth Voyager also a 2.5. whats the worst that could happen to my engine, what did you mean when you said that they can't handle it,

Considering the low amount of boost those put out, as long as your compression is at least 150psi and even on all 4 cylinders, oil pressure is good, and you have no mystery knocks, ticks, rattles or clicks, I'd say you have a 99% chance of not making scrap metal the first time you hit the gas. The WORST thing that could happen? Blowing a hole in the block.
*note* You'll need to get a custom PROM for the ecm or the poor thing will s*it itself when the turbo winds out and the map sensor readings hit the stratosphere.

what kind of powerwould my buddy be looking at with 8psi on an 85 GT? and with an Garrett T3 Turbo how much lag would it have? for further refrence follow the link to see the components of the turbo kit http://members.shaw.ca/turbofiero/Manual.htm

ive looked at that site before too. it says you should get about 225hp with the 2.8. ive read on another site that with that low of boost that kit pretty much doesnt have lag at all. if he has taken off his cat i would think 240hp maybe??

that much from just the cat? wow is this the only kit available on the net, or does anybody else know of somthing? does anybody know how reliable this is, I like to think I know allot about this sorta thing, but when your buddy is shellin out this kinda money you really don't want to have anything unexpected pop up, so is this plug and play, or is he gonna break somthing, and is there somthing that will be nessairy to run this kit for a few years reliably? Thanks

The Garrett name is quite well know and a very dependable turbocharger. The rest of the kit is basic home-brewed exhaust pipes, air tubes and water lines. If you read up on turbocharging a little, you could buy the turbo and water cooling parts from a standard supplier, have the exhaust loop custom bent and flanged by a local hot rod shop, and plumb in the air system with whatever's good for you, anything from flexible clothes dryer ductwork to custom bent stainless steel or aluminum will work. Add your new custom programmed ECM PROM and away you go. Save yourself probably $1000 or more.

As far as lag goes, the t3 is a little doggy but not much. With a manual transmission if you work the clutch right you hardly notice the lag.

yeah removing the cat frees up lots of hp.
i got about 10 by cutting mine off.
there is one thinmg you need to make the turbo kit reliable for years. Mobil 1 every couple thousand miles.

i would go with at least 17 lb injectors too.

i see 17 lb injectors like off a 3.4 and 19 lb off mustangs mostly with the turbos

the 15lb fiero injectors dont put out enough fuel

so is he going to have have to get his ECU reflashed, the 8 psi with a larger (17lbs.) injector (plug and play I assume) what would be the downside of just trowing on the turbo kit and the injectors and running good oil we aren't talking a huge amount of increased power we're far from double the powr of the enine, can the maf handle this much power/ airflow? when does this maf max out? sorry I'm asking so many questions, but I really don't know too much about Fieros, thatnks

i never see anything about changing the maf on all the sites ive seen. so i guess the ecm takes care of that.

That's an easy one- Fiero's don't have a MAF(positioned before the throttle), they have a MAP (positioned after the throttle) :) The MAP sensor has such a wide range there really isn't a problem. The PROM needs reprogramming though, as the levels the MAP would be showing are beyond what GM programmed into the fuel tables. In short, with the stock ECM the MAP will read correctly, but the ecm will freak because the readings are out of range, and go with default values. The result? The ecm is just guessing to determine the injector pulse width and duration and the engine runs like crap.

As far as "plug and play" just about everyone nowdays uses Bosch designed EFI systems, so most performance injectors just pop in and plug on. To get the most out of it, you still need a custom PROM.

yeah the map sensor is on the right side of the upper plenum on the v6 and on the right of the throttle body on 4cyl

its small black and rectangular and its the same on both cars

on 84 and 85 that i know atleast

i guess the difference is maf is flow and map is pressure??

how would he go about getting this programming done? I assume that GM just dosent go ahead and input further tuning to help it realize the boost

You just go shopping for aftermarket PROM companies. There are plenty around. You send then the PROM with a list of the modifications to the engine( Most places have a standard form so you tell them exactly what they need to know) and they reprogram it.

Coop, that's right - MAF's read air flow and MAP reads manifold pressure/vacuum.

I suppose that the current power chip that he curently has in the car will also be insufficient to support boost? I would have noted this sooner, but we were checking out the car in a bit more in depth manner and found out that the previous owner had installed it

so the only thing that will need to be programmed into the chip would be a map that allows for more air, so that the engine wouldent be so confused when boost hits, would he be able to temporarly be able to run less boost (like 5 psi) with a boost controller untill he gets the chip done, or is it a do or die?

I'm not sure what all has to be changed, (I know the fuel tables and electronic spark timing subroutines need adjustment) have but all you need to do tell the programmer what engine modifications you've made and they will already know what needs to be modified in the programming.

I'm sure the current performance chip, unless it's one of those eBay rip-off items, can handle mild turbocharged aspiration to a point, but the only way to find out is to turn up the boost controller until the car starts acting funny then back it off bit by bit until it runs OK again. If you notice any unusual behavior or ANY spark knock at all, stop the car RIGHT AWAY and turn down the boost to avoid damage to the engine. Don't even THINK about running the turbo until you fill the tank with at least 92 Octane fuel.

thanks, sorry I've been such an annoyance, but i think we have learned enough to move ahead with the project, your input was much appricated

Well, that's what forums are for :)

Good luck