mustang vs nissan

So what do you all guys think about the nissan Z cars? We had this thread in the nissan forums,but the only thing we learned was that "there is the ultimate 2005 mustang right around the corner,ready to take nissans"(SVTcobra007x said this)I would like to know better facts than those,which is better?

I've driven the 350Z. Good looking car, fun if you're under 6' tall, but over priced. Funny as thats what killed it the last time. My '96 300Z Twin Turbo would've killed a 350. As far as the 2005 'Stang... their talking about 400 HP for the GT.... lets see anyone other than 'Vette owners stand up to it.

Z cars for hard driving those TTs moved. The new one is nice lot more comfy then the 300zx.I like Z cars thats my vote.

The next Cobra is, according to the head of SVT going to put at least 500hp on the asphalt (06 model yeay most likely). Hubba, hubba, and again I say hubba.

I have yet to see a new 350Z at the track so I cannot comment on their true accelration capabilities. Cobra's with a good driver run solid twelves and Mach are good for low to mid 13's from what I have seen. I do know that unless the magazine jocks were asleep when they drove the 350Z the Mach-1 and the Cobra are both gonna take it in a straight line.

Also, as I have never seen one on a road course either all I can unfortunately go off is a magazine comparo where the Cobra left the 350Z on a road course...pretty handily. I believe it was Car and Driver's comparo.

The pony is nowhere near as "refined" as the new Z car, but that is to be expected between design architectures with thirty years between their initial intros. And, better is just an opinion, as people who pick the 350 over the Cobra or Mach, and people who choose the Mustangs over the Z prove daily.

I will say I am not a fan of the new 350Z myself. Until a turbo (That Infiniti V-8 would be sweeeet)or an eight shows up it will remain underpowered for the dough IMO. Also, I don't car for the styling at all, although Mustang styling isn't currently rivaling any sixties Shelby cars. However, the 05 pony appears to be fixing that problem as well.

I am not bashing the Z at all, as I love the last gen 300ZX, and I think it was a far better car than the new Z IMO. And, just a better Z car too.

Oh, and ace...regarding your sig. I always liked calling it the fat and the flatulent. Mainly because the black Honda Civic's in that film indeed sounded flatulent, and most of the cars looked like pigs to me. No offense to import owners intended, just an affront to all the "bling".

The Z is by far worth the money. WONDERFUL car to drive. You drive it hard, and it responds very well with very good performance in every aspect...you drive it normal, and it is a very comfortable, livable, damn near luxurious (auto climate control, nice seats, etc) performance car. I too was dissappointed to see no turbos on it...but they are coming, I'm sure. They just don't have them yet because they didn't want to introduce the 350Z as a $45,000+ car. Don't forget...the aftermarket is growing exponentially. They have TT and supercharger kits out now that will make the car into a full blown beast for under the price of a Cobra...and the Z can turn, too...not just go straight.

Moreover...I like the Z32TT more. I can pick up a low mileage ZTT in excellent condition for $15-20G. Sink another 10 into it (if THAT) and have a car that will make any mustang on the market cry in the beer. For that much bang for the buck, you just can not beat the Z32TT. Check out the customer's rides section on www.sgpracing.com and look at "Kyle's" car. 10 second automatic on street tires that he drives to work every day.

I know looks are subjective, but not only do you see mustangs EVERYWHERE like damn bacteria, but they are so plain and boring looking. The Z is a very beautiful car that looks almost like a Ferrari. The Z will always be a head turner. I got compliments on my 1986 Z31 2+2 until the very day I sold it (which I still deaply regret to this day...damn near 6 months later)...and it was nothing special at ALL.

The Mustang carries 2 more passengers and Ford will never kill off the Mustang. Japanese car companies have a frequent tendency to stop producing sports cars for years at a time (R.I.P. Supra, 300ZX, RX-7 ). This makes them fragile in the sense that finding aftermarket or O.E. replacement parts is an excercise in patience. Anyone whom has owned a Nissan knows that this is painfully true.
Also, the new DEW Mustang chassis that is coming out will provide a strong rebuttal against the current Nissan chassis.

This statement by Mendari can be considered very helpful in this thread.

from what i've heard,they stopped producing the skylines and supras because they had a lack of sales the last few years..They could have helped the lonely Z in this jap vs american battle,hopely they'll be back soon...YEAH!

As far as performance goes, when you start talking modifications all bets are off for sure. However, if it is a Cobra vs. 350Z comparo concerning which is easier to take to insane hp levels, well the Cobra can reach 500 rwhp without major monetary investment.

So, while I respect the new Z car I do not think this is a war the new Z will win. The last generation 300ZX TT is a far better rival in this respect, although I don't believe even it is quite so inexpensive to mod. The new car will pose a better argument than the current Z when and if turbos show up.

As an fyi the Mach-1 is not nearly so easily modded for such a low amount of dough as the Cobra, and is closer in price to the 350Z. So ,that may actually be a more "fair" comparrison to the 350Z overall, money considered.

I am constantly amazed at people who refer to "anything vs. the Cobra" and say "Well, at least my car can handle". Again, this may be applicable to an extent to the live rear axle Mach-1 and GT. But, the Cobra is a vastly different car under the skin than the Mach or GT from it's bigger and blown engine right back to it's IRS.

Stock for stock, on virtually every road course the Cobra is going to leave the new Z car...period. Yes, this is largely due to the Cobra's massive advantage in power and great brakes, but handling cannot be that bad or the Cobra just flat wouldn't be faster around a course. The only venue I could see the Z winnign in would be an autocross course.

I have already mentioned that the Cobra is nowhere near as "refined" as the 350Z. For an example the car has very direct steering that does exactly what you tell it to. However, it doesn't have very good feel while doing it. Roll is very well controlled and the car is easy to steer with the throttle. Although, it is more easily unsettled on rough surfaces than a much newer design like the Z. These things bother some people, and don't bother others.

I would also mention that an aftermarket turbo kit with everything necessary to make it function properly installed on an new 350Z would likely put the car very, very close to Cobra price territory. And, for something like another grand the Cobra can turn about 500 rwhp. You can argue the "my modded car will outrun yours" angle all day.

As always, it just comes down to preference.

As far as performance goes, when you start talking modifications all bets are off for sure. However, if it is a Cobra vs. 350Z comparo concerning which is easier to take to insane hp levels, well the Cobra can reach 500 rwhp without major monetary investment.

How good of a comparison is it to compare a Cobra vs. 350Z? I would think that the Cobra would literally walk all over it. Now a GT vs. 350Z? That sounds fair. The Cobra holds a 100+hp advantage over the Z. I don't see how, given the design of a 350Z, it could ever hold a chance of beating a way more powerful Cobra. That is stock for stock. I agree that the Cobra would probably wipe the floor against the Z. But how bout a GT vs. 350Z? I would go for the Z.

from what i've heard,they stopped producing the skylines and supras because they had a lack of sales the last few years..They could have helped the lonely Z in this jap vs american battle,hopely they'll be back soon...YEAH!
But what I heard is because of pollution limits them...

As far as performance goes...investment.

Interesting that you say that...you don't consider the Cobra a modified car? It is a normal mustang that SVT modded...new heads, supercharger, etc. This is why I don't believe the Cobra is a fair comparison against a stock 350Z. It's a supercharged V8 vs. a NA V6...whoever thinks this is fair is a special boy. The VQ (the engine in the 350Z) is a very durable, well built engine that is just starting to have the aftermarket open up for it. Hell...the engine's been on Ward's top ten engine list EVERY YEAR since tthe list has been in existance. It's the only engine to do so, as well.

So, while I respect the...if turbos show up.

This is a war that any 90+ Z can win, however...you have to make it a LITTLE more fair. The NA 350Z already beats the holy hell out of the V6 mustang, the GT, and the Mach 1 (in every way that involves more then just going straight). The Z32TT (last gen 300ZX) is not very expensive to mod.

As an fyi the Mach-1...money considered.

It is the fairest comparo as far as price goes, but the Mustang still has a much larger engine.

I am constantly...back to it's IRS.

It is quite true. The GT pulls .82 lat g and the Z pulls .89. Quite a difference. The cobra handles the same as the Z with a .9. Keep in mind: numbers vary (0-60 times and 1/4 mostly)...I hate JUST looking at numbers because of this. Example: I've seen the Z32TT stock 0-60 quoted as high as ~5.8 seconds and as low as ~5 seconds. That's a massive difference, so anytime either of these subjects come up, I take it with a grain of salt.

Stock for stock...course.

I haven't heard of any cobra beating a Z on a road course and I'd like to see that article. However, I actually kinda expect this due to the very large power diff. On the other hand, the mustang's weight distribution is quite bad. 57/43 f/r. Not good. It can pull the same lat exceleration as the Z, but I doubt it handles as well as the Z. The Z has a very good 53/47 f/r distribution. I've driven a couple of them and I can vouch that they handle wonderfully. The steering is very precise and well balanced with variable power assist that is majorly only noticable at low speeds. Great car to drive hard or on a daily basis.

I would also mention that an aftermarket turbo kit with everything necessary to make it function properly installed on an new 350Z would likely put the car very, very close to Cobra price territory. And, for something like another grand the Cobra can turn about 500 rwhp. You can argue the "my modded car will outrun yours" angle all day.

Click here (http://www.stillen.com/sportscars_products.asp?make_id=23&model_id=1698&StartYear=2003&EndYear=2012&cat=2&Brand=&subcat=280) for some Stillen stuff. You can get just the S/C for ~$4,000 or you can get the "stage II" which comes with an intercooler for ~$5,600. I'm willing to bet you can find the I/C cheaper then ~$1,600, though...that's a lot for an I/C and some piping. You can run 5.7 psi which adds 67 hp making 354HP @ 6,000 rpm and 318-lb.ft. torque at 4,200 rpm. "Stage II" with the intercooler lets you raise the boost to approx 10 psi, I think...can't remember exactly. I have to find the article. 10 psi yields over 400hp at the wheels. ~$30,000 + ~$5,600 (which is REALLY expensive for what it is)....pretty damn fast car and that's damn close to a new stock cobra's MSRP of $35,200 (probably be closer to $40,000...the dealer wants some, too) and I could probably even get those HP numbers or more for less money if I looked around some. I'd like to know how you plan on getting 500 hp to the turf out of the cobra for $1,000...

There is also this TT (http://www.motortrend.com/features/performance/112_0308_tuner_350z/) kit and many other S/C and TT kits...they even have S/C kits that don't require hood mods. There are actually more out there then I thought.

If I saw the bottom pic coming up behind me, I'd be scared no matter what I'm driving...

http://www.stillen.com/product_images/407350IC.jpg

As always, it just comes down to preference.

True.......kinda........

But what I heard is because of pollution limits them...

They probably quit producing the Skyline to keep interest peaked. I'm not sure, though.

They quit making the 300ZX and Supra because of a struggling economy, lack of demand, and soaring prices.....simply put.....they were becoming too expensive and people just didn'thave the money. A new 300ZX TT in the mid 90s was a 35-40 thousand dollar car. That's really, really expensive for that time. This is why they didn't release the new Z right off the bat with turbos and convertables and this that and the other thing. They wanted to keep the price down at first. I think they did quite a good job of it.

...I bet turbos are coming...

They still make the skyline in the Japan (currently there is a 2dr and 4dr V35 which uses the same platform as the 350z), it has not missed a year of production since its creation sometime in the 60s, and is currently sold in the US badged as the G35.

And the 350z is merely a continuation of the Z car line, started by the 240z in 1970 which was then followed by the 260z and 280z, then the two 300zx cars, then a small break of a few years and now the 350z, a car which harks back to the light weight nimble handling 240z.

In Japan, where the Z family is most popular they are treated with the same regard as the Mustang is in America, and around the world they are seen as an Icon to the Japanese way of building sports cars, in the same way the Mustang is seen as an Icon to the American ideal of a sports car.

Any comparison of the two cars, whether its a factory special 240z, or a Shelby Cobra, brings out some interesting differnces between the cultures of Japan and America, and how it affects they way they design and build cars, as well as some interesting similarties.
The cars are so similar in thier purpose yet so differnt in its execution that a comparison based purely on thier ablity turn numbers is pointless.

LonglivetheZ. Okay, first of all I will gladly tell you how to get 500 rwhp out of the 03 Cobra as I have seen a LOT of dyno pulls for this particlar car. Also, I would note that this combo I am going to mention is often referred to within Mustang circels as "the Cobra recipe", so knowledge of it within those circles is pretty common.

Okay, let me qualify this by saying that I have seen more than one 03 Cobra dynoed in bone dstock trim and both made right at 360 rwhp. With the 17 percent driveline loss we used to figure true hp at the crank that is right at 420 which is a wee bit hgiher than Ford claims.

We have 140rwhp to go, and three things will get you right up to 500 rwhp. First of all an underdrive pulley, and quite often you see stock SVT Lightning pulleys used. Anybody who understands even the basics of forced induction knows why this works, and how it creates so much more power.

Second of all a ram air kit on a Cobra yields miraculous improvements even with nothing else done to the car. Ford had a hard time making the Cobra pass drive by standards so the car ended up breathing through a straw in order to be legal. I have seen this mod by its self put the car well into the 400 rwhp range and add another 30 hp. With an underdrive pulley and the blower sucking more air.....well you figure out how much that significantly improved sir flow is worth.

Finally, a cat back exhaust works wonders with these two mods, although with stock heads and a stock blower headers don't seem to do much. IMO they aren't worth the money unless you plan on going further than these simple mods.

With those three mods I have personally witnessed an 03 Cobra pull 490 rwhp and change on the dyno. Not quite 10 rwhp shy of 500. This was in early summer, so you factor in a slightly colder day and a bit wilder exhaust and there is your 500 rwhp plus a bonus.

Also, as far as price goes, a lot of Lightning owners switch pulleys so used ones are fairly cheap. Heck, new ones are fairly cheap and it doesn't cost much to get it pressed on either.

A cat back exhaust, well, those are pretty cheap too as is the cold air kit. Honestly, if you couldn't get all that for LESS than a grand you aren't trying very hard.

And SVT can be consdired an in house tuner at best, with that neign a stretch. The Cobra is not an aftermarket tuned car with every car starting out only to end up as a Cobra. So this is not a GT someone tweaked on.

Also, SVT is nothin but a name Ford put on it's go fast works. Big deal. The Cobra is just a Ford with a lot of power and a marketing ploy.

Yes, the Mach-1 is closest in price but this "not fair because the engine is bigger" stuff is kinda weak. The Mach has live axle rear suspension compared to the Z's IRS so in that respect it wouldn't "be fair" to the Mach to compare it to the Z. But, they are in the same price range so they are going to get compared.

I will have to find that article for you, but I can tell you that it was either R&T or Car and Driver running a comparo of the Cobra, RX8 and 350Z. I will also tell you it was not a close race. However, the Z did finish on the road course second although I am surprised you didn't see it being a Z fan.

I dislike magazine numbers as much as you do, however, I have little else to go on with the Z as I have never seen one at the strip. I have seen Cobra's get well into the twelves bone stock on factory rubber. 12.6 is as fast as I have ever seen one go bone stock period.

With all due respect we can invoke the laws of physics here and surmise that a stock Z isn't getting anywhere near twelves unless you shot it from a cannon. Yes, for a naturally aspirated V-6 it is quite impressive, and even I believe that Nissan builds the best six cylinder in the world money considered.

The Z car has it's advantages for sure, and it does quite well with them. While this comparo seems a bit odd to me, it is inevitable given the demise of the F-body for the Mustang and the lack of a Japanese sports car for the Z to plaay with. (I do not count the horribly misconceived RX8, or the waaaay expensive for what you get and noticeably slower S2000. Also, the NSX is a bit on the "good God what are they smoking" expensive side too.) nd, of course, fast cars always get compared.

The reason I say it is an odd comparo is even with a more refined 05 Mustang, these two carw ould seem to attract two different sets of enthusiasts to me. And, I don't just mean handling versus strip as even if the Mustang becomes a corner carver all around I think that more often than not they just attract two different personalities.

The 350Z looks real sharp as a coupe. The pics I've seen of the convertable really make the car look like crap. When they come out with a turbo version, the car will warrent a serious look.

The Mustang is not my style, but is one heck of a performer for the money.

please,the S2000 is a really really good car,its a lil faster than the 350Z in the 1/4 mile time. And to the guy with the 500hp cobra with $1000... What the fuck!How can you get 130hp out of just those basic things. Im sure you'll get those 130hp if the car didnt come with a pulley,an exhaust, or a intake!,but yah,it comes with them from the factory,so i think the most you will get of them will be 100hp tops,and it'll be more than a grand. But oh well, I guess you wont mind posting a dyno chart,will you?

Here we go...man, you don't need a dyno chart from me. Hell, there was an advertisement on THIS forum the other day telling you basically the same thing I just said.

Hold on man, your right....... I keep dyno charts for other people's cars. I am only being sarcastic because that is a ridiculous idea and the mods I just mentioned aren't exactly a secret. It is all over the Ford hi po world. Ask almost anybody, and I do mean anybody, who has ever seen a Cobra dyno and they know this. Hey, you know what, I kept the time slip for that Cobra that ran a 12.6 too...lol

More than a grand no matter what for a used pulley, a catback system, and a cold air kit for a Mustang? I need to be selling parts to you then. Even horribly overpriced and unknowledgable Advance Auto parts will sell you a K&N cold air kit for a couple bills for a Cobra. Buy it from somewhere that isn't out for blood and pay a lot less. Get a little innovative with some stainless tubing and a mig and it could be done for well under a hundred bucks.

The last full exhaust system I bought for a car, my 73 Mach-1, was $450 installed at the local muffler shop with 3" pipes and two chamber flowmasters. A new pulley wouldn't run anywhere near two bills if you gold plated the sucker.

Man, with all due respect I think you have been buying import parts too long or something. If you spent more than a grand on those three things the exhaust and the cold air kit had better be stainless, and the pulley better be solid gold. Not that you couldn't buy "ultra premium" stuff like CBorla exhaust and get to that price, but it isn't like you wouldn't have a choice.

And, for your piece of mind I will find you a dyno run for an 03 Cobra with these mods. But, what difference would that make to you as you don't know what the Cobra I post a dyno chart for has had done to it? If you don't believe me now then you would have no reason to believe me then.

Better yet try doing your homework if you are as interested as you pretend. I find it hard to believe that any serious enthusiast is completely uninformed about this car and these mods. Go watch one dyno yourself, if you know where a dyno is. Or speak to someone you know familiar with these cars. You wont hear anything to disagree with what I have said.

Okay Nacho, that took about five seconds to solve. Ever hear of Kenne Belle? You know, that guy who sells Lysholm compressors..... blowers?

Mosey yourself on over to his site and take a look at what his dyno numbers say for the 03 Cobra. I assume you don't think there is a vast aftermarket conspiracy to forge Cobra dyno numbers.

He says he has gotten 03 Cobra's to dyno, bone stock, at 375rwhp. And, while he claims to have gotten no improvements under 600hp with a cat back exhaust, he says a cold air kit has been worth between 32-65 hp and that a 3.55 inch pulley gets you 42hp. Hmmm, 375+65+42......well that would be 482 hp at the rear wheels now wouldn't it Also, Mr. Belle never mentioned that he corrected his numbers which generally means, he didn't. And you know what??? there are even smaller underdrive pulleys than that even though I might reccomend the 3.55 as a minumun for most daily cars..

Or you could click yourself on over to Springfield Motorsport's site where they got their Cobra with the mods I mentioned plus a chip and a throttle body (each worth 10hp MAX on this car and more like five to ten each with the stock blower) to dyno at OVER 500 rwhp corrected.

Hmmmm, must be that vast aftermarket conspiracy to make the Cobra sound faster than it is.

Ok...140 hp out of 3 mods on a mustang? Sounds a little fishy, but ok...I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

And SVT can be consdired an in house tuner at best, with that neign a stretch. The Cobra is not an aftermarket tuned car with every car starting out only to end up as a Cobra. So this is not a GT someone tweaked on.

Every time I get in a discussion with someone that's trying to compare the Z to the cobra, the cobra's suddenly a stock car all of a sudden. The Cobra is not a stock car. Just like you have the vette, vette conv, then the Z06. Or the Z32 300ZX, the 300ZXTT, 300ZX conv, then the 1995 SMZ (fastest car ever sold at a Nissan dealership). You have the V6, the GT, the 21351816132465124165032035465846546843543654613461 354 other mustang variations, then you have the cobras (of which I saw *3* of today in my tiny ass little town...God I hate mustangs) and the steedas and rouchs and saleens and blah blah blah. See what I mean? A lot has been done to the Cobra...it's quite far from the STOCK car.

Also, SVT is nothin...marketing ploy.

It's mustang's aftermarket division...just happens that they are in house, like TRD for toyota, neuspeed for mazda, Nismo for Nissan...then they have their out of house stuff too, like steeda and rouch and the list continues.

Yes, the Mach-1...going to get compared.

What's weak about it? You're comparing a 4.6L V8 to a 3.5L V6. A SUPERCHARGED V8 to a NA V6, in the case of the cobra. These are not the fairest of comparisons...but the Z still hangs. What you're saying is that a comparison to a massive V12 Lamborghini engine to a I4 Integra engine is fair if you can get them for a similar price. on the other hand, I've seen many Zs that cost much more then the Cobra, but that still doesn't make it a fair comparison between the Cobra and the Z. Price matters and it doesn't at the same time...kinda...know what I mean?

I will have to find that article...you didn't see it being a Z fan.

I have that magazine but it's in storage in Florida. If I remember correctly, the Z won that comparo. I looked for that article and couldn't find it online. Here (http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=1938) is something for you to look at in the mean time. The only thing they like about the Mach 1 is that is goes straight well...which is all I do or ever have given any mustang credit for. The Z won the road course, but the mustang didn't do too horribly due to that it has a big engine and more power.

I dislike...seen one go bone stock period.

I just read an article (I think it was in "Hot Rod" magazine or something to that effect) with a comparo: WRX STI vs. the Cobra. The STI ran the same 0-60, same 1/4 time, and cost a whole bunch less. I think 12.5 ish was about what they found.

With all due respect...cylinder in the world money considered.

You wanna talk physics...we'll talk physics...actually math. Not only are you picking the wrong car to wage this battle with, but you're picking the wrong person to wage the physics/math battle with...I love math and physics and they are pretty much my religion. I believe that everything in existance can be explained and understood through math.

You say how easy it is to get 500 hp out of the cobra...that's great. Now I'm going to show you why that sounds like a lot, but really doesn't mean shit.

The Cobra weighs damn near 3700 lbs and has a drag coefficient [sp.] of .36. My point? Not only is it a brick...'bout as aerodynamic as a school bus, but it's a really heavy one at that.

Here comes the math...you ready? 500 hp in the 3700lb cobra is a .135135 power to weight ratio (.135135 pounds of car per horsepower). This is equivilent to the 3200lb Z having just over 430 hp. The VQ in the Z can do this without breaking a sweat.

In the world of physics, with the same gearing, if I have 430 hp in my 3200 lb Z and you have 500 hp in your 3700lb cobra, we will be exactly nose to nose until we get going a bit. Then, when we're moving and drag starts really clawing at the cars, I'll pull away because the Japanese know how to draw better. Speaking of gearing, the Cobra is actually geared really differently then the Z...
The Z is geared:
(:1) 3.79, 2.32, 1.62, 1.27, 1.00, .079, with a 3.54 as a final.
The Cobra is geared:
(:1) 2.66, 1.78, 1.30, 1.00, 0.80, 0.63, and a final drive of 3.55.
The Z's second gear is almost the same as the Cobra's first gear. This being said, at an even jump of the line with the HP and weights stated above, the Z would theoretically pull on the cobra initially. The cobra has more torque so it doesn't need to use gearing. The Z's kinda short gearing explains how a 5.4 0-60 is possible out of a 274 ft/lb NA V6.

The Z with 500 hp is equivilent to the cobra having close to 600 hp...578.125 hp, to be exact. That twin turbo Greddy 350Z has only ~350 hp and has a nearly identical 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. If it only takes the Z ~350 hp to do the same thing that the cobra takes 390 hp to accomplish, then what the HELL makes you think that the Z couldn't run the cobra all up and down a drag strip? If you don't think the VQ35DE engine in the Z is capable of the same, if not more, power as the mustang's engine, you're a fool.

The Z car has it's...side too.) nd, of course, fast cars always get compared.

The reason I say...two different personalities.

The reason *I* compare these cars is for 2 main reasons: 1) Just about everyone I've ever met that had a mustang thought they were the shit. Mustang's just aren't...at all. All these big headed, mustang ass holes just annoy the hell out of me. 2) The Z has at least the same modding/hp potential as ANY mustang, if not more, it's cheaper (usually), and it's a far superior platform in EVERY way except that the mustangs can go straight ok. I just can't stand around while this is going on...I feel compelled to try to dispel this fallacy that's going on concerning the mustang's "greatness".

Ok...140 hp out of 3 mods on a mustang? Sounds a little fishy, but ok...I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

And SVT can be consdired an in house tuner at best, with that neign a stretch. The Cobra is not an aftermarket tuned car with every car starting out only to end up as a Cobra. So this is not a GT someone tweaked on.

Every time I get in a discussion with someone that's trying to compare the Z to the cobra, the cobra's suddenly a stock car. The Cobra is not a stock car. Just like you have the vette, vette conv, then the Z06. Or the Z32 300ZX, the 300ZXTT, 300ZX conv, then the 1995 SMZ (fastest car ever sold at a Nissan dealership). You have the V6, the GT, the 21351816132465124165032035465846546843543654613461 354 other mustang variations, then you have the cobras (of which I saw *3* of today in my tiny ass little town...God I hate mustangs) and the steedas and rouchs and saleens and blah blah blah. See what I mean? A lot has been done to the Cobra...it's quite far from the STOCK car.

Also, SVT is nothin...marketing ploy.

It's mustang's aftermarket division...just happens that they are in house, like TRD for toyota, neuspeed for mazda, Nismo for Nissan...then they have their out of house stuff too, like steeda and rouch and the list continues.

Yes, the Mach-1...going to get compared.

What's weak about it? You're comparing a 4.6L V8 to a 3.5L V6. A SUPERCHARGED V8 to a NA V6, in the case of the cobra. These are not the fairest of comparisons...but the Z still hangs. What you're saying is that a comparison to a massive V12 Lamborghini engine to a I4 Integra engine is fair if you can get them for a similar price. on the other hand, I've seen many Zs that cost much more then the Cobra, but that still doesn't make it a fair comparison between the Cobra and the Z. Price matters and it doesn't at the same time...kinda...know what I mean?

I will have to find that article...you didn't see it being a Z fan.

I have that magazine but it's in storage in Florida. If I remember correctly, the Z won that comparo. I looked for that article and couldn't find it online. Here (http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=1938) is something for you to look at in the mean time. The only thing they like about the Mach 1 is that is goes straight well...which is all I do or ever have given any mustang credit for. The Z won the road course, but the mustang didn't do too horribly due to that it has a big engine and more power.

I dislike...seen one go bone stock period.

I just read an article (I think it was in "Hot Rod" magazine or something to that effect) with a comparo: WRX STI vs. the Cobra. The STI ran the same 0-60, same 1/4 time, and cost a whole bunch less. I think 12.5 ish was about what they found.

With all due respect...cylinder in the world money considered.

You wanna talk physics...we'll talk physics...actually math. Not only are you picking the wrong car to wage this battle with, but you're picking the wrong person to wage the physics/math battle with...I love math and physics and they are pretty much my religion. I believe that everything in existance can be explained and understood through math.

You say how easy it is to get 500 hp out of the cobra...that's great. Now I'm going to show you why that sounds like a lot, but really doesn't mean shit.

The Cobra weighs damn near 3700 lbs and has a drag coefficient [sp.] of .36. My point? Not only is it a brick...'bout as aerodynamic as a school bus, but it's a really heavy one at that.

Here comes the math...you ready? 500 hp in the 3700lb cobra is a .135135 power to weight ratio (.135135 horsepower per pound of car to be moved). This is equivilent to the 3200lb Z having just over 430 hp. The VQ35DE in the Z can do this without breaking a sweat.

In the world of physics, with the same gearing, if I have 430 hp in my 3200 lb Z and you have 500 hp in your 3700lb cobra, we will be exactly nose to nose until we get going a bit. Then, when we're moving and drag starts really clawing at the cars, I'll pull away because the Japanese know how to draw better. Speaking of gearing, the Cobra is actually geared really differently then the Z...
The Z is geared:
(:1) 3.79, 2.32, 1.62, 1.27, 1.00, .079, with a 3.54 as a final.
The Cobra is geared:
(:1) 2.66, 1.78, 1.30, 1.00, 0.80, 0.63, and a final drive of 3.55.
The Z's second gear is almost the same as the Cobra's first gear. This being said, at an even jump off the line with the HP and weights stated above, the Z would theoretically pull on the cobra initially. The cobra has more torque so it doesn't need to use gearing. The Z's kinda short gearing explains how a 5.4 0-60 is possible out of a 274 ft/lb NA V6.

The Z with 500 hp is equivilent to the cobra having close to 600 hp...578.125 hp, to be exact. That twin turbo Greddy 350Z has only ~350 hp and has nearly identical 0-60 and 1/4 mile times as the cobra. If it only takes the Z ~350 hp to do the same thing that the cobra takes 390 hp to accomplish, then what the HELL makes you think that the Z couldn't run the cobra all up and down a drag strip? If you don't think the VQ35DE engine in the Z is capable of the same, if not more, power as the mustang's engine, you're a fool.

The Z car has it's...side too.) nd, of course, fast cars always get compared.

The reason I say...two different personalities.

The reason *I* compare these cars is for 2 main reasons: 1) Just about everyone I've ever met that had a mustang were ass holes. Everyone thinks mustangs are the shit and they just aren't...at all. All these big headed, mustang ass holes just annoy the hell out of me. 2) The Z has at least the same modding/hp potential as ANY mustang, if not more, it's cheaper (usually), and it's a far superior platform in EVERY way. I just can't stand around while this is going on...I feel compelled to try to dispel this fallacy that's going on concerning the mustang's "greatness".

Every time I get in a discussion with someone that's trying to compare the Z to the cobra, the cobra's suddenly a stock car. The Cobra is not a stock car. Just like you have the vette, vette conv, then the Z06.

Why isn't the Cobra a stock car? Why is the Z06 not a stock car? Their are also different trims of the Z, so is it also a nonstock car?

You say how easy it is to get 500 hp out of the cobra...that's great. Now I'm going to show you why that sounds like a lot, but really doesn't mean shit..

How easy is it to get 500hp out of the Z? I would think being able to pull over 130+hp out of a mere 1k bucks is a car with great potential being bone stock.

The Cobra weighs damn near 3700 lbs and has a drag coefficient [sp.] of .36. My point? Not only is it a brick...'bout as aerodynamic as a school bus, but it's a really heavy one at that.

Yeah your pretty much right there.

In the world of physics, with the same gearing, if I have 430 hp in my 3200 lb Z and you have 500 hp in your 3700lb cobra, we will be exactly nose to nose until we get going a bit. Then, when we're moving and drag starts really clawing at the cars, I'll pull away because the Japanese know how to draw better.

Japanese know how to draw better? In most cases, but the Cobra is a poor example.

Okay long live...first of all that 500hp was rear wheel horsepower not crank hp which translates to about 580hp at the crank. Yep, that's about 200hp at the crank more than Ford rates the car at and about 150-160hp more at the crank than they dyno at stock. I suppose the fact that there are countless aftermarket companies on the web that back up these numbers with dyno runs is just more proof of that vast aftermarket conspiracy huh? lol

Get 430 REAR WHEEL hp out of a remotely stock 350Z car....ain't gonna happen and to claim it can be done simply makes you look foolish. That would be 500 hp at the crank....THAT is funny. Heck, there is no way you will make that kind of power at the crank without turbos, a blower, nitrous or major internal mods. If you consider the addition of any of those, with the possible exception of nitrous, "nearly stock" then I would hate to see your idea of highly modified. it would take a heck of a turbo system to push that stock 3.5L to 600hp too so it could match the Cobra I might add

Even at 430 hp at the crank you would still be 150hp shy of that Cobra at the crank. And no, the Z is not capable of the same power with equivelant mods as the Cobra. Sorry to break it to you, but you still have a little thing called displacement to overcome and the 3.5L in the Z simply cannot be taken there. That claim is foolish on it's face since you are obviously totally uninformed about the Cobra, it's engine, or in my guess most things domestic.

Yes the Cobra is heavier, and far less aerodynamic. But to act as though that .36cd is going to be significant engough at the strip to put the Z over the Cobra unless the Z is HIGHLY modified with nearly equivelant power is ridiculus. HP numbers would have to get a lot better on the Z for that cars better cd to make a difference and unless these are cars that trap at about 150mph any fool knows that aerodynamics just isn't going to make that much of a difference in strip times.

If you enjoy math so much then I suggest you take some classes. It would give you something to contemplate while that 03 Cobra was leaving you like you were tied to a pole.

They have TT and supercharger kits out now that will make the car into a full blown beast for under the price of a Cobra...and the Z can turn, too...not just go straight.


A 03' Cobra pulls .90g on the skidpad, which is just a bit better than the average 350Z skidpad numbers.

Don't even get into the modding wars. The 03' Cobra can attain ridiculous h.p. numbers with just bolt-on's. Dollar for dollar, it isn't even close between the two cars.


Moreover...I like the Z32TT more. I can pick up a low mileage ZTT in excellent condition for $15-20G. Sink another 10 into it (if THAT) and have a car that will make any mustang on the market cry in the beer. For that much bang for the buck, you just can not beat the Z32TT. Check out the customer's rides section on www.sgpracing.com and look at "Kyle's" car. 10 second automatic on street tires that he drives to work every day.


Now your're talking about a car that runs similar times to the new 350Z, and is not made anymore. Let's sink $10k into each and see what happens. Even seen a bolt on Cobra? With minor bolt-on's, the already underrated Cobra is at around 470-480 flywheel hp, which most people that have modded these cars get. You get these gains without even breaking $1k, if you choose your catback, intake, and pulley wisely. You now have a high/mid 11 second quarter-mile car and you still have $9k to go to mod it with. See where this is going here? Mod to mod, it is not even close.

The 350Z is a nice car, but give credit where it is due.

http://www.importperformanceparts.net/imports/strokerkits_comingsoon.html

"There is no replacement for displacement". One of the most controversial issues that drivers argue about. Sure, the 350Z has an impressive horse power rating most likely due to the compression ratio. But that doesn't help it when it needs the power. I guarentee you if japan used a V8 that was built just like the V6 in the 350Z, then it would have so much MORE potential. But there is the fault and we all know that the more cylinders and greater the cubic inches, the greater advantage it has to the car with the smaller engine. Just take a look at that website above and notice the small caption on the top of the page explaining displacement. I am just using that as an example to help the argument between tweaking the Cobra and the 350Z. By all means you can argue this until you're blue in the face but the fact is more power is created by bigger engines, and that is why the Cobra is able to stand out as the winner. I know people like to over exaggerate like when Longlive said the Mustang is shaped like a schoolbus but in reality, are all cars shaped like the Z? Obviously not, and the Mustang is theoretically aerodynamical enough that it will not affect its times. Weight on the other hand, does matter.

The reason Ford underates the 2003 Cobra can only be explained by the fact that their 1999 Cobra version was overestimeated. I forget how much by but with that in mind, Ford didn't want to make the same mistake again so they played it safe. Thus they rated it around 390hp instead of over 400. Very suprised because usually Ford likes to brag about how much power and torque there engines can pack in.

And people, when this thread was started by Nacho, he mentioned something about the 2005 Mustang. The final model is going to be shown at the auto show in Detroit in January, prob. along with its specs. Start bringing that up in your discussions.

This post is just food for thought.......nothing to criticize.............

Yes, our friend above has a point. If and when the 350Z ever does show up it is going to have a factory rated 500+hp 5.4L DOHC supercharged Mustang Cobra V-8 to play wth as of 2006. And the head of SVT said at least 500hp, current leaks say look for more like 550-560. This works with what SVT has said about the GT hunting for bigger fish and that the Mustang Cobra is the car they want to compete with the Viper and next Z06.

As an FYI the Ford GT is getting a serious hp boost as well in order to give the Lightning and Cobra more room to breath hp wise. Actually, forget the Cobra, the next Lightning gets over 500hp too. Fords full size pickup is going to out accelerate the 350Z, all five thousand pounds of it.

I had not thought about the fact that the next gen Cobra will be out by the time any TT Z or Skyline shows up on our shores, assuming either ever does. Heck, by that time the Mach 1 will have returned in the new car too, and while reports on it are not as clear cut as the Cobra, it is already well known that the new 2005 Mustang GT is getting 320hp. Positioned between 500hp and 320hp it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out where the Mach-1 will end up. HP is currently rumoured to be in current Cobra territory.

Ah, it is a good day to be a Ford guy.

And as an fyi, Mazdas in house performance division division is called...Mazdaspeed...not Neuspeed.

well I'm sure in a few months the VQ will be able to produce way more than 500hp.. Just look at the RB26DETT,I've heard of one pushing 1,600hp. "theres no replacement for displacement..",that's not always true,only if you compare a lawn mower's engine to a 5.0,but if you compare a nissan 2.6l to a 5.0l,it wont always be true..I bet this battle is just starting,lets wait for the supra,GT-S,and the turbo 350Z,and lets see if 500hp will be enough to take on those... :rolleyes: I mean,they already have trouble with a v6 engine... :iceslolan

This is gonna be fun... :sunglasse

Why isn't the Cobra a stock car? Why is the Z06 not a stock car? Their are also different trims of the Z, so is it also a nonstock car?

All trim levels get the same engine, drivetrain, suspention, and brakes (with the exception of the Brembos on the Track). They are all the same car...some just have little things added...base (6MT only)is just the 287 hp engine and the 17" rims...Enthusiast (6MT or optional 5AT) gets xenon HIDs, Traction control, and an LSD and the option for the conv...Performance (6MT only) gets all that, plus Vehicle Dynamic Control (stability control), 4 wheel tire pressure monitors, and 18" inch wheels...Touring (6MT or opt 5AT)adds a Bose sound system (6 disk in dash CD changer, 6 speakers, and sub), power heated leather seats, and heated mirrors as well as the conv option...Track gets Brembos, super lightweight 18" Rays rims, High performance tires, front chin spoiler, rear underbody diffusers, and rear spoiler. Why I typed all that out, I don't know...I'm bored...my point is, it's the same damn car, just with little shit changed. Now...start adding Nismo stuff...then it becomes a modded car...just like when you add SVT stuff...it's a modded car.

How easy is it to get 500hp out of the Z? I would think being able to pull over 130+hp out of a mere 1k bucks is a car with great potential being bone stock.

You know....no one can say for sure....the car's brand new. However...there are many things that make me think that it will be pretty damn easy once the aftermarket gets spooled up...the engine's been on Ward's Top Ten Engine list for *9* years STRAIGHT....it's the only engine to do so....mustang engine is nooooooooowhere in sight. The VG30DE(TT) that was used in the 90-96 300ZXs were very mod friendly and inexpensive to mod. They have wonderful yields as far as that goes...500hp is nothing for them. The VQ engine is better then that engine, so why would this engine differ?

Okay long live...first of all that 500hp...conspiracy huh? lol

Ok...the calculations I did were using RWHP figures....it doesn't make a diff...the result is the same. Conspiracy...what the hell are you talking about?

Get 430 REAR WHEEL hp...Cobra I might add

You're the one that's foolish...come on, man. What the hell makes you think that this newer, better engine isn't capable of 430rwhp when the old one could do it easily? You can get that much out of the old school VG30E(T) engines (the ones in the 84-86 Zs). You say I can't get that much power at the crank...not only is that dumb to say, but the COBRA USES A BLOWER...moron.

Even at 430 hp at the...domestic.

Displacement is overrated. If you have an efficient, well built engine, you can do anything you want. Look at the RB26DETT used in the Skyline. Just a measly old 2.6L. Easily pushes over 1,000hp...many hundreds on stock internals. Look at the 2JZ-GTE used in the late model Supras. Those aren't big at all. They run well over 800 hp with just bolt ons as well. These are well built, efficient, quality engines just like the current and past Z engines are. I know my enemy, my friend. You are the fool. "Sorry to break it to you, but you still have a little thing called displacement to overcome and the 3.5L in the Z simply cannot be taken there." One of the stupidest statements I've ever seen...typical domestic guy.

Yes the Cobra is...in strip times.

The drag isn't too big of an issue at the strip until you get into the high trap speeds...then the Z will have an advantage. The weight will KILL it right from the get go, though. "put the Z over the Cobra unless the Z is HIGHLY modified with nearly equivelant power is ridiculus." Ok...You're going to race a stock NA V6 against a highly modded S/C V8 and call it fair? You completely missed the whole point of my previous post. My point was that not only is the Z very capable of high HP numbers, but it puts it to far better use since it's way lighter and way more aerodynamic. With the same HP numbers, which would make it fair, the Z will win.

If you enjoy math so much then I suggest you take some classes. It would give you something to contemplate while that 03 Cobra was leaving you like you were tied to a pole.

Blah blah blah blah....moron.

A 03' Cobra pulls .90g on the skidpad, which is just a bit better than the average 350Z skidpad numbers.

I know the Skidpads are the same....89 Z vs .9 SVT....for the most part, the same.

Now your're talking...it is not even close.

$10,000!!!!????!!!! For 10G, I'd be making the Z06 guys cry. I could make a sub 4 sec 0-60 car for that much money. You guys aren't understanding me...yes...the cobra has oodles of hp...that's great...but it's an extremely heavy, poorly distributed, unaerodynamic car. The CONVERTABLE Z is more aerodynamic then the cobra *AND* it weighs 200lbs less!!! Even with an automatic trans!!!

SVTcobra007x...you think that they might just be saying that because they're TRYING TO SELL STROKER KITS!?!?...just shut up.

If I hear one more damned rumor about the new mustang, I'm gunna flip out.

I like the Lightening. That trick with the intercooler and the A/C coolant is pretty cool. But...here we are again...you're saying how a S/C V8 is faster then a NA V6 like it's some major accomplishment...you like to cheat on video games, don't you?

I do give credit where credit is due...mustangs just don't deserve any.

D'OH...mazdaspeed...I knew that...what the hell is neuspeed?

some engines will get more hp for a given displacement than other engines, cause of its superior design, and lighter parts. like if you were to put both engines of similar displacement to its limit, one of them will produce more power. usually engines with more valves will get more power, and have a better power band out of its given displacement, cause of more air flow.

the mustang cobra has a supercharger on it with 390 hp, while the 350z is just an n/a v6 with 287hp, definately not in the same class, and an unfair comparison in my opinion. but if you gave the 350z a supercharger or a turbocharger, then it would be more fair. the cobra actually has good handling, cause of its multilink rear suspension instead of the traditional solid rear axle, so with some engine mods to the 350z i think they would be a good match on the racetrack.

All trim levels get the same engine, drivetrain, suspention, and brakes (with the exception of the Brembos on the Track). They are all the same car...some just have little things added...base (6MT only)is just the 287 hp engine and the 17" rims...Enthusiast (6MT or optional 5AT) gets xenon HIDs, Traction control, and an LSD and the option for the conv...Performance (6MT only) gets all that, plus Vehicle Dynamic Control (stability control), 4 wheel tire pressure monitors, and 18" inch wheels...Touring (6MT or opt 5AT)adds a Bose sound system (6 disk in dash CD changer, 6 speakers, and sub), power heated leather seats, and heated mirrors as well as the conv option...Track gets Brembos, super lightweight 18" Rays rims, High performance tires, front chin spoiler, rear underbody diffusers, and rear spoiler. Why I typed all that out, I don't know...I'm bored...my point is, it's the same damn car, just with little shit changed. Now...start adding Nismo stuff...then it becomes a modded car...just like when you add SVT stuff...it's a modded car.

Wouldn't that mean that many trims of cars aren't stock. For instance; this would mean such cars as a vr4, tt stealth, gt eclipse, tsi talon, supra tt, rx-7 tt, tt 300zx, etc. are also nonstock vehicles? They slap on FI or different engines like the Cobra/Z06 trims do. Dealerships usually offer different options/trims you can equip your car with (if they have it). Simply because a Cobra trim calls for a supercharged engine doesn't mean its no longer stock.

You know....no one can say for sure....the car's brand new. However...there are many things that make me think that it will be pretty damn easy once the aftermarket gets spooled up...the engine's been on Ward's Top Ten Engine list for *9* years STRAIGHT....it's the only engine to do so....mustang engine is nooooooooowhere in sight. The VG30DE(TT) that was used in the 90-96 300ZXs were very mod friendly and inexpensive to mod. They have wonderful yields as far as that goes...500hp is nothing for them. The VQ engine is better then that engine, so why would this engine differ?


We are not talking about how much horsepower it will produce in a few years with more aftermarket parts avaliable. We are talking about now. As it stands, it has no chance against the Cobra mod to mod, or dollar to dollar. If it is such a good candidate for modifications, then tell me why it cannot gain ~60 rwhp with just a catback, intake, and pully? Because it is not FI, obviously, but the fact remains that you will have to spend much more on the 350Z to get comparable gains. I am not understanding why you have such a problem with this. It is a simple concept.



You're the one that's foolish...come on, man. What the hell makes you think that this newer, better engine isn't capable of 430rwhp when the old one could do it easily? You can get that much out of the old school VG30E(T) engines (the ones in the 84-86 Zs). You say I can't get that much power at the crank...not only is that dumb to say, but the COBRA USES A BLOWER...moron.


You seem to like childish insults when you run out of an argument. 430 rwhp, which translates to roughly 500 fwhp is a large number to be at when the base engine makes 287. In order to gain 213 hp out of that engine, it is going to require a large amount of money to attain those gains. I don't doubt it can be done, but again, all that is being pointed out is that it is much easier to get those gains out of the Cobra.



Displacement is overrated. If you have an efficient, well built engine, you can do anything you want. Look at the RB26DETT used in the Skyline. Just a measly old 2.6L. Easily pushes over 1,000hp...many hundreds on stock internals. Look at the 2JZ-GTE used in the late model Supras. Those aren't big at all. They run well over 800 hp with just bolt ons as well. These are well built, efficient, quality engines just like the current and past Z engines are. I know my enemy, my friend. You are the fool. "Sorry to break it to you, but you still have a little thing called displacement to overcome and the 3.5L in the Z simply cannot be taken there." One of the stupidest statements I've ever seen...typical domestic guy.


If displacement is overrated, then why have domestic sports cars been outrunning imported ones for years? So, there are a few solid imported V6's out of how many other hundreds of other V6's that are sold in import cars. This compares to how many solid, well designed domestic V8's that have been out for some time.



The drag isn't too big of an issue at the strip until you get into the high trap speeds...then the Z will have an advantage. The weight will KILL it right from the get go, though. "put the Z over the Cobra unless the Z is HIGHLY modified with nearly equivelant power is ridiculus." Ok...You're going to race a stock NA V6 against a highly modded S/C V8 and call it fair? You completely missed the whole point of my previous post. My point was that not only is the Z very capable of high HP numbers, but it puts it to far better use since it's way lighter and way more aerodynamic. With the same HP numbers, which would make it fair, the Z will win.


Now your calling this comparo unfair when you have spent how much time defending the 350Z? The number of 350Z's putting out the same h.p. numbers as the Cobra will never be close. Why? Like it has been mentioned only ten times in this thread, the Cobra can attain higher h.p. numbers with much less invested. I'll ignore your b.s. about the 350Z putting the h.p. to better use.



Blah blah blah blah....moron.


Same immaturity, again.


I know the Skidpads are the same....89 Z vs .9 SVT....for the most part, the same.


Then why did you insinuiate that domestic cars handle badly?


$10,000!!!!????!!!! For 10G, I'd be making the Z06 guys cry. I could make a sub 4 sec 0-60 car for that much money. You guys aren't understanding me...yes...the cobra has oodles of hp...that's great...but it's an extremely heavy, poorly distributed, unaerodynamic car. The CONVERTABLE Z is more aerodynamic then the cobra *AND* it weighs 200lbs less!!! Even with an automatic trans!!!


For ten thousand dollars invested I would expect a 350Z to outperform a Z06. If the Cobra is such a poor platform like you say it is, then why does it pull slightly better numbers on the skidpad? This is not even modified. Who cares if the 350Z is more aerodynamic? It still runs slower times to the supposedly unaerodynamic Cobra, and will still run slower times mod to mod. Your argument is worthless.


If I hear one more damned rumor about the new mustang, I'm gunna flip out.


The new Mustang has only been mentioned a handful of times in this thread.



I like the Lightening. That trick with the intercooler and the A/C coolant is pretty cool. But...here we are again...you're saying how a S/C V8 is faster then a NA V6 like it's some major accomplishment...you like to cheat on video games, don't you?


You are the one defending a slower car in the first place. None of us made any excuses for the Cobra, but you continue to make excuses as to why the 350Z is slower, stock or modded.



I do give credit where credit is due...mustangs just don't deserve any.


Funny that you say that. Just shows how little you know.

A Cobra is probably one of the easiest cars to gain power out of. It basically is sucking air through a straw but regulations prevent the Cobra from being more than it deserves.

You fork out around 1000 to 2000, you are going to gain the power out of the Cobra. Hell, you are not even done modding it yet, you have just gotten started. Now take a stock 350Z 287hp engine. Put your TT and whatever else you need to gain power, and Ill guartentee you will not come close to the power that the Cobra gets out with little mods. Plus you are probably going to go over the price of the Cobra and its little mods by purchasing the extras for the V6 Z. 350Z is obviously not built or made for hard core racing because if it was, maybe they would have slapped a super charged, turbo, or whatever V8 engine in there to begin with. Oh.......... but....... wait they are going to come out with a TT350Z. Yea we will see how long that theory goes on for, the Z car will probably won't exist by then. It will fail just like its predecessors(all those Japanese "sports cars" that didnt make it including the 300Z). Too pricy for Americans who would rather wait for the 2005 Mustang. Its gonna be cheap and very powerful for the money. For the Z, its just a luxury "show it off in my driveway because its a copycat of the Audi and Porsche"car. Then again, it may look like them, but definitely doesnt perform like them.

Who gives a shit........rumors will end in January about the 2005 Stang, they will turn in to facts. Ill bring it up as much as possible.

"One of the stupidest statements I have ever heard" That is what long live said to me. And, I have to say I find a tiny measure of solice and joy in the fact that a man just insulted my intelligence with a grammatically incorrect sentence. Maybe you should add an english composition course to that math course I advised you to look into.

"Stupidest", um, I quite saying that in the third grade. Hasty typing can be expected to cause quite a few typos and errors on these boards, but "stupidest"? I am often guilty of typos and the poor usage of punctuation as I am often in a hurry. But "stupidest" is not a typo.

As far as this "fairness" issue goes, if Nissan guys are going to continue to "talk smack" about the 350Z and how incredible it is then other enthusiasts are going to expect them to prove it. I point out all the time that the Cobra is a better deal IMO than the Z06 is, price considered. But, if someone compares these car's performance numbers, stock for stock, then you just take your lumps. Crying "it's not fair" sounds every bit as "third-grade" as your grammar.

I would also mention that people refer to import six cylinders in vehicles like the Supra and Skyline pushing 800 or 1000 horsepower quite often. However, they seldom mention that these engines are typically running on a racing fuel that more closely resembles what you might find in an SR71 than at your local gas station. Also, I have seen two Supras pushing over 800hp, and neither was what I would call very "streetable" in that tune. Sure, both of these looked like street cars and had all the stock interior appointments, but calling their engines "moody" would be the understatment.

My point here is that all that extra displacement you so generally discount allows you to build a more powerful engine for less, and still keep it much more "streetable" That 4.6L eight in the Cobra can run hp numbers the equal of those engines on pump gas and still behave like a relatively stock, streetable engine.

Also, I noticed that the Cobra uses a blower long ago. No need to point it out so rudely. Is it possible that you just figured this out yourself and couldn't contain your surprise?

People with attitudes like yours give an entire community of enthusiast's a bad name. Doubtless, several people will hear drivel that people like you spew and go out looking for 350Z owners to destroy in a race and then mock them. This is unfortunate, as those people are every bit as immature as you are.

It takes all kinds.

By the way long live...Hot Rod got the WRX STi to post a 13.3 second 1/4-mile time. That is a long way from the 12.5 seconds you cited. I will believe that a stock STi can outrun a stock Cobra when I see it proven by the lights at a dragstrip and not before. Perhaps if you spent more time at the strip or the track you would have a more informed opinion.

Ditto except for the part about the powerband and valves and whatnot...there are maaaaaaany variables that effect the efficiency of an engine.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=158867&page=3&pp=15

Here is a good link for you Z people. Nacho Nissan decided to push his way into this thread talking about how awesome the 350Z is, but IMO, he got shot down, cant handle the pressure. But anyway, it brings good points about how the current 350Z is shit and how it cant compared to the current stock Mustang. It makes sense, you cant compare the stock Mustang to the stock Z. They have completely different price ranges, the Mustang is $16,000 while the 350Z is $30000. That is actually pathetic on how much more you gotta pay for little extra power. For God sakes, put $14000 into the stock 2003 Mustang and it could be equivalent to the Z, money wise also.

"oh nacho got shut down"..Sure i did bitch,who's the little hoe who went and started another thread talkin bout "Guys i need help cause all these nissan people are giving me good reasons of why the 350Z is better and I dont know what to say.." Yah biotch,you pussied out in the nissan forums talkin bout "they are both real good cars..",now you come talk your shit in here! What a little b!tch...and i dont think anyone wants a $16,000 stang,they're poorest quality,and you see them everywhere...When people see a mustang,they look away,but when they see a 350Z,it catches their attention,and it has the sporty look,not just a box like homeboy longlivetheZ says...

Wouldn't that mean that many trims of cars aren't stock. For instance; this would mean such cars as a vr4, tt stealth, gt eclipse, tsi talon, supra tt, rx-7 tt, tt 300zx, etc. are also nonstock vehicles? They slap on FI or different engines like the Cobra/Z06 trims do. Dealerships usually offer different options/trims you can equip your car with (if they have it). Simply because a Cobra trim calls for a supercharged engine doesn't mean its no longer stock.

No...the cobra is a COMPLETELY different car from the other mustangs...not only does it have the numerous engine MODS, but it has a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT REAR END for God's sake....come on, guys...

:disappoin Tekone, you continue to completely not understand what I'm saying. I guess the points I'm trying to make to you aren't getting through. You just see the bigger numbers and faster times and you're happy. Either that or you're ignoring what I'm trying to say because you can't defend against it.

Point #1: The Z has a better engine, therefore, more potential...just not right now. The mustang/cobra engine(s) have been around the performance circles for many years now. They have those engines completely figured out and have all different kinds of mods not only available, but available at a very inexpensive price. The VQ is a relative newcomer to the performance arena. The fact they already have many mods, including 400+ horsepower twin turbo and s/c kits, is quite remarkable considering the engine has only been available to the aftermarkets for a couple years. Just wait and see what happens. They will unlock this engine soon enough.

Point #2: The cobra doesn't put the power it DOES make to good use. The cobra makes great big numbers. That's great. But the car is very inefficient by design. It is extremely heavy and unaerodynamic. You choose to ignore these points as do most domestic/mustang guys do because you guys, as opposed to the import guys, choose the "we'll just put a big ass engine in a big ass box and it'll go" method of getting things done. I know I'm generalizing a bit, but good for you guys. It works ok, but it's not the best way to do it. Make a well designed, efficient, well manufactured car and it will go much further then one that is not. An example of a well designed, efficient, well manufactured car is the Porsche 911 GT3 (well...any Porsche, but I'm just using this one because it has a similar power output to the cobra). Ignore the price difference for now. It's irrelivant to what I'm saying. This Porsche's flat 6 has a displacement of mere 3.6 liters and puts out 380 hp. The cobra actually has 10 MORE hp then this Porsche. However, the point I'm trying to make is this: the inefficient, poorly designed cobra has a 4.5 0-60 with its big mean 390 hp engine but this Porsche, with a much smaller engine AND LESS HORSEPOWER beats the cobra with a 0-60 of 4.3 seconds and a top speed around 190 mph. No turbos, no s/c's, no nitrous, no tricks. Put turbos on it if you want to get completely slaughtered. It wins because it is a well built, much more aerodynamic, and MUCH lighter car (by almost 700 POUNDS!!!)...this quality results in the huge price. The Z has very similar quality (trust me...my dad has had more than one Porsche and I drove a Nissan for many years) at a much smaller price. Think of it as the poor man's porsche.

"then why have domestic sports cars been outrunning imported ones for years?" Choose your imports more carefully...the Z is not anywhere NEAR its full output right now from the dealer because that is how the dealer wanted it to keep prices low. Wait and see what the Z can do down the road a bit when the aftermarket opens up...not to mention when/if the Nissan guys decide to go all out and release another SMZ. Don't know what a SMZ is...look it up...basically Nissan's equivilant to the Cobra for ford. It was released in 1995.

Point #3: "We are not talking about how much horsepower it will produce in a few years with more aftermarket parts avaliable. We are talking about now. As it stands, it has no chance against the Cobra mod to mod, or dollar to dollar." Well of COURSE NOT. Once AGAIN, you seem to be proud of your supercharged V8 beating a normally aspirated V6. I know the 350 isn't too much now...give it time. It's still new and doesn't have the aftermarket stuff the mustangs do. Nissan didn't want to release a moster right off the bat because it would be too expensive and price was what killed the Z cars in the first place. A better comparison mod for mod would be between the cobra and the Z32TT. The aftermarket for the Z32TT is similar to that for the cobra and the engine is at least a little more similar.

Ok...check this out...you wanna go mod for mod...let's go:

2004 cobra...MSRP...~$35,000.

*I* go out and buy a car similar to this (http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/vdetail.jtmpl?car_id=147994151&dealer_id=&car_year=1991&make=NISSAN&distance=any&max_price=&model=300ZXTURBO&advcd_on=n&end_year=1996&min_price=&first_record=401&certified=n&address=41091&search_type=used&advanced=n&start_year=1990&=&color=&cardist=776). Let's just say nine grand...give the guy nine grand and say gimme the keys...away we go.

I take that car to these (www.sgpracing.com) guys. Now...how far I decide to go with it is completely up to me. I've seen them with around 800 horsepower at the wheels that is still very reliable and is driven daily. For me...I don't need that, but I'm gunna go all out here to prove a point. Drop the car off and tell them I want the following:

Ultimate Long Block (http://store.yahoo.com/sgpracing-store/9096300zxttna.html) (it's at the bottom): $6000
TD06-20G's (http://store.yahoo.com/sgpracing-store/sgptdo6upfor.html) (the daddy turbos...800+ whp): $2500
Some new Intercoolers (http://store.yahoo.com/sgpracing-store/9096nis309.html): $1000
Dual POP Intake (http://store.yahoo.com/sgpracing-store/jdupopch9096.html) (extreme top of the line...includes new remapped ECU, too...:D) and Exhaust (http://store.yahoo.com/sgpracing-store/90nis303w45q.html) (extreme top of the line, too): $2000 for both.

The above and maybe a couple other little odds and ends and I have 800+whp that is reliable and drivable on a daily basis. Total cost: $20,500...INCLUDING THE PRICE OF THE CAR!! A car for a few ticks over twenty grand that will make Z06 guys cry in their beer. Not only is that an insane amount of power...not only is it reliable...not only is it easy to be driven comfortably daily...but it puts that power to better use because it is a lighter (by over 200 pounds...before I lighten it :D), more aerodynamic car. Plus it will turn waaaaaaay more heads then just...another...mustang.

Long Live the Z.

longlivethez.... come on man, you got that weight difference off there, the cobra weighs more like 450lbs more, not 700.

No...the cobra is a COMPLETELY different car from the other mustangs...not only does it have the numerous engine MODS, but it has a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT REAR END for God's sake....come on, guys....

Reguardless of what you believe that fact is that the Cobra is still another stock trim. The Cobra comes out of the box as is, any modification after this point would make it a nonstock vehicle, NOT prior. What kinds of excuses must you use to prove your point? There are many other ways you can.

Point #1: The Z has a better engine, therefore, more potential...just not right now. The mustang/cobra engine(s) have been around the performance circles for many years now. They have those engines completely figured out and have all different kinds of mods not only available, but available at a very inexpensive price. The VQ is a relative newcomer to the performance arena. The fact they already have many mods, including 400+ horsepower twin turbo and s/c kits, is quite remarkable considering the engine has only been available to the aftermarkets for a couple years. Just wait and see what happens. They will unlock this engine soon enough.

Well I see your point, are you going to prove it?, or just wait a few years...

An example of a well designed, efficient, well manufactured car is the Porsche 911 GT3 (well...any Porsche, but I'm just using this one because it has a similar power output to the cobra). Ignore the price difference for now. It's irrelivant to what I'm saying. This Porsche's flat 6 has a displacement of mere 3.6 liters and puts out 380 hp. The cobra actually has 10 MORE hp then this Porsche. However, the point I'm trying to make is this: the inefficient, poorly designed cobra has a 4.5 0-60 with its big mean 390 hp engine but this Porsche, with a much smaller engine AND LESS HORSEPOWER beats the cobra with a 0-60 of 4.3 seconds and a top speed around 190 mph. No turbos, no s/c's, no nitrous, no tricks. Put turbos on it if you want to get completely slaughtered. It wins because it is a well built, much more aerodynamic, and MUCH lighter car (by almost 700 POUNDS!!!)...this quality results in the huge price.

Yes the Porsche 3.6 boxster engine is like none other.

Point #3: Once AGAIN, you seem to be proud of your supercharged V8 beating a normally aspirated V6. I know the 350 isn't too much now...give it time. It's still new and doesn't have the aftermarket stuff the mustangs do. Nissan didn't want to release a moster right off the bat because it would be too expensive and price was what killed the Z cars in the first place. A better comparison mod for mod would be between the cobra and the Z32TT. The aftermarket for the Z32TT is similar to that for the cobra and the engine is at least a little more similar

A 3.6 N/A GT3 is more than capable than beating the Cobra, but now you refer the the 3.5 N/A 350Z like its not fair. Both are N/A V6, almost the same L. Is this another excuse?


A 350Z is an awesome car. It may lack hp over the Cobra, but thats not why it isn't better than Cobra. These cars are in two different league's (if you ask me). Which car would I prefer over the two?, I'd choose the Z over the Cobra. But I can't agree with everything your saying about the Z.

Reguardless of what you believe that fact is that the Cobra is still another stock trim. The Cobra comes out of the box as is, any modification after this point would make it a nonstock vehicle, NOT prior. What kinds of excuses must you use to prove your point? There are many other ways you can.
A cobra is "stock" out of the factory. What longlive is trying to tell you is that the cobra is tuned by SVT,so it is not really stock..Would you consider a Nismo tuned skyline stock?? I dont think so...See what we mean... :smile:

A cobra is "stock" out of the factory. What longlive is trying to tell you is that the cobra is tuned by SVT,so it is not really stock..Would you consider a Nismo tuned skyline stock?? I dont think so...See what we mean... :smile:

Is a nismo tuned skyline a stock skyline offered?

longlivethez.... come on man, you got that weight difference off there, the cobra weighs more like 450lbs more, not 700.

Mustang Cobra: 3,665 lbs. (Stat off www.jbcarpages.com.) Porsche 911 GT3: 3,043 lbs. (Stat off Porsche official web site.) 3665-3043=622 lbs actual difference. I was rounding...3,665 rounded to 3700 (35 lbs isn't that much of a difference) and 3,043 rounded to 3,000 (43 lbs isn't that much of a difference)...~3700 - ~3000= ~700 lbs.

Reguardless of what you believe that fact is that the Cobra is still another stock trim.

:disappoin No it's not. Nacho knows what I mean. I don't see how anyone can see the cobra as a stock mustang. It is very different from the regular mustangs. Completely different rear end, completely different heads, it's s/c'ed, etc. It's no where even near what the stock mustangs are. If I got a regular mustang and "made my own" cobra, would it still be stock? Only difference is how it was when I bought it. Using your interpretation of this, a highly modified Nismo Z would be stock. I know they would both be sold at the dealers, but they are modified versions of the regular cars.

The SMZ is an example of this...it was sold at Nissan dealerships in 1995 to celebrate the Z's 25th anniversary. They were MODIFIED by Stillen and very, very limited (something like only a few hundred were made). Here is a 3 page artical about the SMZ: Page 1 (http://www.aus300zxclub.com/magazine/SMZ01.jpg), Page 2 (http://www.aus300zxclub.com/magazine/SMZ02.jpg), Page 3 (http://www.aus300zxclub.com/magazine/SMZ03.jpg). "On anything other than a scrupulously clean surface, the Stillen SMZ's two extra pounds of boost will spin the rear wheels in second gear." I love that line. Stillen's goal with this car was to keep a flexable, daily drivable, comfortable car while slightly improving performance. That artical quotes a 5.3 0-60, but I've seen stock cars quoted that low, so meh...I dunno. That car was a stock Z32TT that Stillen modified, then it was sold at the dealers...just like the Mustang that SVT gets, modifies, then is sold at dealers. They are not stock cars.

I will have a Z32TT, and I think I could honestly say I would donate a nut for an SMZ. :lol:

Well I see your point, are you going to prove it?, or just wait a few years...

How would you like me to prove it? I've given numerous bits of evidence to prove my point as well as I can...what else can I do? I can't time travel.

A 3.6 N/A GT3 is more than capable than beating the Cobra, but now you refer the the 3.5 N/A 350Z like its not fair. Both are N/A V6, almost the same L. Is this another excuse?

Very good point. No, it's not an excuse. The reason I presented that the way I did was because the GT3 is tuned for optimum performance from the factory (or at least close) while the Z is not...yet. The reason behind this: Porsche doesn't care what the price tag is. Nissan's goal was to keep the car affordable in the beginning...under $30,000, and they did. But to do this, they sacrificed performance a bit. Too high of prices were what originally killed the Z cars. I thought they would do this...release the cars kind of detuned in the beginning to keep cost down, then down the road, start releasing more powerful models (I predict turbos...it's Z car tradition) when people are ready to pay for more power from the factory. It isn't anywhere near it's full potential yet.

disappoin No it's not. Nacho knows what I mean. I don't see how anyone can see the cobra as a stock mustang. It is very different from the regular mustangs.

Thats why they call it the Cobra. I know that nacho see's your point, and so do I, but it doesn't distiguish that its not a stock car. Why would acclaimed car comps/mag compare a 'modified car' (Cobra) vs. a stock car? More than likely they wouldn't, and why wouldn't they?

How would you like me to prove it? I've given numerous bits of evidence to prove my point as well as I can...what else can I do? I can't time travel.

Then you can't prove it. Give it some time, I'm sure Nissan will come out with a very strong aftermarket (as they usually do), but for now, I can't see how it can be better. Like I said, Give it some time. I'm sure the day will come.

Very good point. No, it's not an excuse. The reason I presented that the way I did was because the GT3 is tuned for optimum performance from the factory (or at least close) while the Z is not...yet. The reason behind this: Porsche doesn't care what the price tag is. Nissan's goal was to keep the car affordable in the beginning...under $30,000, and they did. But to do this, they sacrificed performance a bit. Too high of prices were what originally killed the Z cars. I thought they would do this...release the cars kind of detuned in the beginning to keep cost down, then down the road, start releasing more powerful models (I predict turbos...it's Z car tradition) when people are ready to pay for more power from the factory. It isn't anywhere near it's full potential yet.

Exactly, maybe the 4.6 L mustang/cobra engine wasn't tuned for optimum performance either.

Like I said before, I would choose a Z over a Mustang. Why?, because I believe the Z is more balanced and refined than this gen. Mustang/Cobra will ever be.

I am at no attempt to try and bash you Lovelive. I'm only trying to give my side to the argument, and I am very impressed that you stick by your car no matter what. Like I said, I would prefer the Z over the Cobra, but I simply cannot agree with everything that your saying.

More excuses from the Nissan camp. These excuses are hardly worth debating, considering how weak and obviously contrived these arguments are.

The Cobra is assembled in a Ford factory, of Ford designed and manufactured parts, by Ford employees. Hmmmm, yeah I can see why that wouldn't be considered a stock Ford....lol.

To compare a car assembled out of house by a tuner who is in no way a part of Nissan to a completely in house job is is clearly a sign of desperation. SVT is a part of Ford Motor Company....hard to get much more clear cut than that.

I think Nacho and Longlive are the only two people in here so-far who buy their "reasoning". I will say that creating excuses does not help your argument that the Z-car is competitive. People generally do not make excuses unless they feel they need to.

yah,like i said the cobra is "stock".It is assembled in the ford factory,but SVT gives the gay mustang a nicer,cleaner,faster touch. They just dont do it as aftermarket. So it is stock, But it's not tuned just by ford,SVT kicks in...so thats why we think it is not fairly stock...Yes they compare it against stock cars,because it's "stock"...

ok enough is enough...you already have 14 pages worth of poswhoring in the 350Z forum section and now you guys expand this fight in different forums


this quote is from the 350z forum debate
longlivetheZ,what do u think if we do this thread in the mustang section? ghetto7o2azn agrees that we should...And im sure drifter guy will be glad to help us....

btw this is not gang warfare forums.....with a twist that instead of having gangs from different hoods you have them from different car manufaturers

Kurtdg19, you have proven yourself to be one of the coolset, most down to earth people I've talked to in these forums and I appreciate it.

This has gotten twisted around too much. We're not even talking about what the post started out as in the Nissan forums. Cobra stock or not or what ever....that'll go on forever....it's not a stock car....it's sold at the dealer and that's where the similarities to the other mustangs end.

This whole "stock or not" thing is not the point...the only reason this was brought up at all is because it pisses me off how you damn cobra guys (I know I'm generalizing a bit, but meh) think you're the baddest things ever. It's faster then the Z...but you're comparing it to a supercharged V8. Excuse: To explain (a fault or an offense) in the hope of being forgiven or understood. I'm not looking for pity or mercy or forgiveness...it'd be nice if you understood what I'm saying. Could you guys take a LITTLE more of an advantage over the stock Z? The Z could probably beat any mustang already. I haven't seen any performance stats for the s/c'ed Zs yet...

My point is the cobra, and mustangs in general, are poorly designed cars that make poor use of what power they do make and they will never compare to the Z of past or present unless highly modified (or "stock" with a supercharger and intercooler and different heads and different gearing and on and on and on and on....whatever...) and making it completely unfair.

My point is the cobra, and mustangs in general, are poorly designed cars that make poor use of what power they do make and they will never compare to the Z of past or present unless highly modified (or "stock" with a supercharger and intercooler and different heads and different gearing and on and on and on and on....whatever...) and making it completely unfair.

They will never?....they will never?.....What the hell.............First of all, they do compare without high modications. Poor designed? What bull.....typical Nissan fan comment, got nothing else to say about the unpopular Z so you bash the Mustang.

Im going to get a few things straight about the Mustangs. Let us all start with the Grand, stock V6 Mustang. Now, do we all agree that the V6 version was never meant for high performance, I hope you all understand that. It was made for Mustang fans who wanted a cheap car but was slapped with a Stang logo on it. Secondly, the Mustang GT. Over the years they have added a tad bit more power, mostly when they changed models. Because in 1995, the GT did not come with 260 horses. But I like how they put 260 horses under the hood for people who still want a CHEAP, but fast car for 2003.

Now we get to the good part. The MACH 1 Mustang. Now I do not know if you people consider this one stock or modded, but I know this....it has 32 valves. And since it includes 32 valves.....it puts out 305 hp. Now tell me if that is not a good comparison to a Nissan 350 Z which puts out around 280 horsepower and does relatively the same 0-60. But the real good thing about this car is that it costs about the same if not cheaper than the Z. But according to Longlive, a stock Mustang with mods will make a comparison unfair with the Z. I dont think this one does.

How would you like me to prove it? I've given numerous bits of evidence to prove my point as well as I can...what else can I do? I can't time travel.
Yea the same idea also works with the Stang of 2005. How can I prove it? I have given tons of evidence to prove my points and of course, I know i cant time travel. What a crock of shit...........I know the 2005 Mustang will actually exist and its clear it will include a better engine. For Gods sake its the 40th anniversary of Mustang. But in your case, Japanese cars are easily pushed off the market and no one knows if the 350Z will make it in a few years(bye bye TT). Plus the popularity of the Z can be compared to nothing in America. I have only see one of them around, dont get me wrong I see tons of other Nissans, but not the Z. I hope I never see the convertible 350Z...............gives America a bad look, keep it in Japan.

Made my sentences as short as possible to get to the point. THe point is people dont give a shit about the 350Z car. They dont care if they put a supercharger on it or took it out to the tracks. All they want to do with it is show it off on the road and have a nice ride(excusing the convertible version of course). Those cars were not meant for racing except its predecessor. Now that thing had potential. Don't you Z people get it? It does not matter how much speed it can produce or how much "potential" it has. I would rather buy a Porsche, which Z is the copycat of(except for power) and mod that. They look practically the same but the Porsche is the one with the potential and the bang for the buck. The 350Z will not last long because of its price, its unpopularity, and due to its V6 engine. Amazing engine but Nissan should have considered a V8 in that thing, but again, they didn't have an "all powerful car" on their mind unlike the Mustang. Mustangs on the other hand will always be a down right sports car that people will mod and race out on the tracks with. Screw the Z, it just costs way to much to mod on top of the fact you pay to much for "luxury" in the first place. WIth all these factors in mind, it will be killed off in the future unlike the Mustang which keeps on going. You will not win against the Mustang in America, no matter what you think of it, it is just way too popular and expanded. One of the reasons the Camaro and Firebird were killed off.

I was at the Houston Nissan Enthusiast meet today,only bout 5 350Z's showed up,and 3 G35's...A few mustangs were passing by and just looking at the 350Z's,they couldnt say anything with their pop-corn in a microwave sounding asses. We wanted for a mustang to say something stupid,but they were smart and just walked away...This gurl had a 350Z convertible. Gurls actually look nice in them...

Kurtdg19, you have proven yourself to be one of the coolset, most down to earth people I've talked to in these forums and I appreciate it.

Thx, if only more people tried to help others out with their knowledge instead of trying to make fools of one another, we would all learn so much more. I myself do somtimes get frustrated, but i always try to keep the 'bashing' to a minimum, theres really no point in it.

This has gotten twisted around too much. We're not even talking about what the post started out as in the Nissan forums. Cobra stock or not or what ever....that'll go on forever....it's not a stock car....it's sold at the dealer and that's where the similarities to the other mustangs end.

This is usually how they end up being, as frustrating it is to admit it. hehe.

This whole "stock or not" thing is not the point...the only reason this was brought up at all is because it pisses me off how you damn cobra guys (I know I'm generalizing a bit, but meh) think you're the baddest things ever. It's faster then the Z...but you're comparing it to a supercharged V8. Excuse: To explain (a fault or an offense) in the hope of being forgiven or understood. I'm not looking for pity or mercy or forgiveness...it'd be nice if you understood what I'm saying. Could you guys take a LITTLE more of an advantage over the stock Z? The Z could probably beat any mustang already. I haven't seen any performance stats for the s/c'ed Zs yet...

Maybe. I know it was matched with a Mach 1 and others, and it did pretty well against the competition. I can't remember exactly who came out on top, but indeed, it was a good comparision. Theres no shame in having a Z, as there isn't any shame in owning a Cobra either. When I see either car roll by, theres' usually someone behind the wheel who is satisfied as it being their daily driver (or not daily). Who could blame them?

My point is the cobra, and mustangs in general, are poorly designed cars that make poor use of what power they do make and they will never compare to the Z of past or present unless highly modified (or "stock" with a supercharger and intercooler and different heads and different gearing and on and on and on and on....whatever...) and making it completely unfair.

If its unfair than its out of its league usually. I don't understand why this comparision decided to go with the 350Z vs. the Cobra anywho.

When an engine is FIed (force induced) they need to run on a lower compression than what a none FIed engine can run on. You know what happens if your compression is to great when your running a FI (lots of potential problems). An engine will always have less hp with a lower compression. The 350Zs compression will be a lot higher since it doesn't require a FI system. So basically, to add a turbo with a high amount of boost on the 350Z, it will require a compression lower than its standard 10.3:1. Which once again, this is where the Cobra exceeds in having more 'potential' stock (through these particular means).

This may all change though if Saab produces their variable compression ratio engines. I'm not sure if they are already in production (by some company), but it could be one of the best things for FI.

Sorry but this thread passed the point of being a rational and educated comparison several pages ago.