Cant Start My Talon...

A few days ago i drove my talon back to my house, i parked it on my driveway and went home for a few minutes. when i came back my talon didnt start. after a few more cranks it started, but the problem persisted, when i tried to start the car, the rpms go up to a 1000 and then fall down and the car stalls. is it somethin in the ignition or electrical system? i checked the fuel pump and the sparkplugs but nothin seems to work. does anyone have any suggestions?

Alright u are going to love this. My talon done this same thing. I had to get a new computer but for a temporary fix move your gas line dealy that controls ur idle up. Sorry i also put a new o2 sensor on and full exhaust

Hey thanks! Can u explain more in detail to me how to make it work temporarily? also, do u know if i have to buy a new computer or i can get one from a used talon? Thanks again!!!

aight now this is no mechanic talkin so it may be hard to understand sorry
there is a wire coming up to the back of ur cfm i believe it is called(round thing behind block towards the firewall) there is to bolts on it loosen them and pick up ur idle like i said it only works for a while then it will die at stop lights and everyother bad place i believe they said i burnt a selinoid sending unit not for sure i believe a used one should work mine was 200 dollars now i am after a tcu for my car

Hope this helps

it is kinda complicated i thinks its easier to get the ecu from ebay or somethin . i hope its the ecu. thanks for ur help again

FastTalon;
Perhaps you can find an ECM (or ECU) at E-Bay, but you really would want to be sure that's what's wrong before you go spending the money, right?

I'm probably sounding like a broken record here, but get the Haynes manual for your year talon, and with it you will have the information you need to check the ECM for fault codes. There is a code for a bad unit, as well as a host of other codes which indicate exactly what sensors or switches are malfunctioning. The only other thing you will need to check the codes is a voltmeter. A mutli-meter would be the best thing to purchase, they aren't that expensive (less than $20, unless you want to get a really good one, which you don't need), because it would also have an ohmeter built in, which you can use to check sensors, and even spark plug wires for resistance.

If the ECM tests out bad, you can send it down to an outfit in Texas where they repair them. It's a couple hundred dollars, but they warrant their repairs for one year. Let me know if you're interested in that, if so, I'll find a link and paste it for you.

Mark

FastTalon;
Here's a link to ECM World (http://store.yahoo.com/ecmworld/). I got one through them a year or so ago. They don't show their prices on line, but it's as easy as calling a toll free number to find out. There is another outfit in Texas called ECM's to go, and I saw there is a place in California too. You can find these places by putting ECM, Eagle Talon into a search such as google or ask Jeeves, or whatever you usually use.

Good luck

Mark

before my talon broke down , my check engine light came on and i went to a mechanic and he tested my car . he said that it was a faulty egr valve and egr solenoid , after that ive been driving my car for at least 3 months before it broke down. i already have the manual ur talking about but it doesnt provide a lot of infro on troubleshooting , its not very specific. do u think my car broke down because of the egr system??? Im really confused now

FastTalon;
Actually, I think it a bit odd that both the EGR valve and the solenoid would be bad, but it is possible. I tend to think (just a hunch) that the fault code your mechanic found indicated it was either the valve or the solenoid, not necessarily both of them.

The EGR valve recirculates exhaust through the intake manifold, but not at all times. That's where the solenoid comes in. The solenoid is connected to the vacuum system, it allows exhaust gas to recirulate through the engine at certain rpms and load conditions. The solenoid actually only allows vacuum to reach the EGR valve during these times, which causes the valve to open and recirculate the exhaust.

So, if the solenoid is bad, it could be allowing vacuum to the EGR when it shouldn't. Or, if the valve is bad, it might not be seating properly, which would allow it to recirculate exhaust when it shouldn't. The diaphram in the EGR valve can also tear or fail which would cause you to loose vacuum. All of the above would cause the engine to run poorly, and to idle roughly. It would probably also make the car difficult to start.

I tend to believe that the solenoid would be the problem. I honestly don't think the ECM knows whether or not the EGR valve is actually opening, or if it isn't seating, or if the diaphram is ruptured. It does control the solenoid, and the solenoid gives it feedback via voltage levels or resistance, so that's why I tend to think it is the solenoid that may be faulty. It if is the solenoid, it may not be letting the EGR valve open at all, which really wouldn't hurt anything at all.

You should get this problem fixed, it does effect the emissions the car produces, and could cause you to fail an emission test. Also, as long as the problem exists, you won't know whether or not there are any other problems with your car, because you'll think the check engine light is only coming on becuase of the EGR problem.

Mark

This may sound stupid, but have you checked to make sure your battery is fully charged? DSM's get pretty crazy with a low battery.

I second what 1992talon told you.....my '95 Talon is in the shop today getting a new ECM because it was doing the same thing. It would squeal upon start up..continued to die....wouldn't start back up.....replaced the fuel relay (3 times it kept burning it up), fuel pump, fuel sensor, crank shaft relay & crank sensor..........$$$$$$ later now find out it was a bad ECM... cost me $ 252.00 for the replacement ECM and because it was so difficult to diagnose they didn't charge me any labor and paid for the last three tows. I pick it up today. I would recommend having it checked to be sure. Best of luck

My personal opinion? Here are some options if it isn't the ECM... And this is great info for anyone with starting issues...
Check your Battery. Cold Cranking Amps for the 91-94 is different than what Wal-Mart or Auto Zone will tell you. They all recommend one of the SMALLEST batteries for your car, 450 CCA. However, it is a REAL recommendation to go with at least a 525 CCA. I use a 750 CCA, with brass terminals, and filed the crap off my connectors. I had similar issues, and this worked. The way to find out if this is your problem, is to see if it cranks and holds when jumping your battery off another car's battery.
Next, check your coil packs. Make sure they are delivering the correct resistance. If only one is good, then good luck starting it. You can only buy them as a pair, and it is cheapest to get it from O'Reillys. NOTE: The version you get will be marked for a Hyundai, don't worry, that company uses the same one we use. This is around $130 +
Also, check the resistance for your Power Transistor. It tells which coil pack should be sparking to which cylinder. If this is not good, check Auto Zone for a replacement. O'Reillys and Advanced Auto do not carry this part. $146 after tax.
Check your plug wires and plugs next. Standard wires carry up to 26000 ohms of resistance. Accell 300+ Thundersports are 150 ohms per foot. Invest! You can eBay for about $40.
Plugs are a HUGE issue in the starting of your car. Just TRYING to start it can foul them to the point where it won't even start after replacing everything else. After being certian that all else is good, replace them anyway. Even if they were brand new when you started diagnosing. Avoid Bosch plugs. They just don't work well with our cars, and foul out quick.
Starter replacement is costly. $106 for the starter or $42 for the solenoid only. Here is a hint, take your starter where it can be tested outside the car before deciding which to replace. It may be cheaper to do the solenoid, but you can't take it back, and the starter replacement comes with one. So you may be buying an extra for nothing. Check it first!
Your fuel pump could be an issue. Here is how to visually see the pump in action. Remove the 3 retaining nuts to your fuel rail and carefully lift the injectors out of their ports. Have someone crank the car. You can then see the if the injectors are rotating their spray evenly. You are looking for a couple of things... whether the spray is even from one injector to the next, and whether the injectors are firing in order (you may have to concentrate to watch the order of the spray, this happens quickly). If there is a problem, you can back track from there, eliminating your injectors, fuel rail, regulator, fuel filter, and pump in one shot.
To check the pump specifically, refer to your manual on using the pump check connector located just behind the battery on the fire wall.
Here's a catcher that gets a lot of people... your safety switch at the top of your clutch pedal. It isn't the switch you should look at. There is a plunger on the switch that should meet against a small plastic stopper. That stopper is notorious for breaking. Disconnect the switch, and remember that you can start it now without pressing in the clutch pedal.
ECM!!!!!!!! Quick lesson and cheaper! Get one from a junk yard that will warranty to at least work. Replace yours with it and try it. If there is no difference, return the ECM to the yard and only pay a restocking fee in most cases (Usually 20%), and the ECM shouldn't be more than $135.
ECM codes! You can email me with the code or codes brought up, and I can tell you what they are for. Any questions about what codes mean can be eliminated this way. And you can feel sure that SOMEONE out there will tell you what they are and WON'T be looking for money. Otherwise, get a manual and read it. It can tell you also, and you see it for yourself.
Other things to check..... real quick, this is getting long....
Replace the MPI relay!
Replace the Ignition and MPI fuses!
Reset your CAS! It may be 180 degrees off!
Check your timing! The timing belt tension adjuster may be out. It is controlled with a very small seal that likes to break, and can throw off your balance shafts and timing.
Check your idle adjustment. There is a way to adjust your idle with the BISS on your throttle body and eliminate the computer from controlling it at the same time!
Check your compression! It should read somewhere around 145.
I don't mind answering any questions, just email me. And feel free to refer this post to anyone with starting issues. If nothing else, maybe others can learn from this. These are all starting issues, and I don't think I missed anything.
Thanks!

well, in a string of bad luck, I am now to the point where my talon won't start. First of all, dont buy wal-mart's douglas tires. I had a blowout after 19,000 miles cause the tread was totally gone. When the tire blew, i lost control since i was turning when it happened. I hit a curb and bent one of my rims. I went ahead and bought a new set of rims and tires and thats when i noticed my strut was bent. A day later, my CV joint snaps. It broke at the boot where those three pegs are. While I was slowing down, those pegs kept pounding a hole in the side of my transmission. After 10 hours of working on it, i was able to replace the tranny and CV joint. When everything is back together, I went to start it and it just turns but doesnt start. My timing belt is still intact. I replaced the spark plugs and wires. Each plug is producing a powerful spark. I HAVE GAS IN THE TANK (and people for some reason mention that to me first). The battery is fully charged. Anyone got any clues? For your info though, its a 1992 Eagle Talon, 2.0L, automatic non-turbo. Please any help is appreciated.

Don't go buying a starter for $104 at Auto Zone yet!
2 things to check. You pulled the tranny, right? That means you disconnected and removed the starter. Make sure all your connections are good at the starter. Check that ground that just slips on. Mayby take a file (emery board from WalMart in cosmetics works perfect) and clean the connections. Then check your connections at the battery and clean them up too. On the 92, you have 2 ground wires at your battery and there are 3 positive connections. Clean the positive connection plates really well, and get the brass battery terminal connectors at WalMart for a couple of bucks each.
Second thing... you are a fan of WalMart... not a bad thing. But is your battery an EverStart? If so, there isn't enough cranking amps. 450 or 475 won't cut it. Do yourself a favor, get the 700 CCA Maxx. It's around $59.95.
I am guessing that you can hear clicks when you turn the key? Should be another after turning the key off from under your dash too. If that's the case, your solenoid is trying to engage, but the power to turn the flywheel just isn't there. Check your connections first, then get back to me.

You don't have to adjust them in most cases. You can go through my list of options just before your first post and check off everything you know is good. Fire is good, and you say fuel is good. Take each spark plug out and put it on the end of your spark plug wire. Check to see that you still get good spark through the plug. While it's out, check the gap too. This will eliminate the spark plugs.

well, in a string of bad luck, I am now to the point where my talon won't start. First of all, dont buy wal-mart's douglas tires. I had a blowout after 19,000 miles cause the tread was totally gone. When the tire blew, i lost control since i was turning when it happened. I hit a curb and bent one of my rims. I went ahead and bought a new set of rims and tires and thats when i noticed my strut was bent. A day later, my CV joint snaps. It broke at the boot where those three pegs are. While I was slowing down, those pegs kept pounding a hole in the side of my transmission. After 10 hours of working on it, i was able to replace the tranny and CV joint. When everything is back together, I went to start it and it just turns but doesnt start. My timing belt is still intact. I replaced the spark plugs and wires. Each plug is producing a powerful spark. I HAVE GAS IN THE TANK (and people for some reason mention that to me first). The battery is fully charged. Anyone got any clues? For your info though, its a 1992 Eagle Talon, 2.0L, automatic non-turbo. Please any help is appreciated.

caniborrow50cnts:
Man, that's some bad luck! Have you broken any mirrors lately? Just kidding, trying to throw some humor in there. Sounds like a fuel delivery problem from what you're describing. Why out of no where though? Sometimes it happens that way. I don't think the ECM is to blame, as you say you're getting good spark. Typically when the ECM goes bad you don't get spark or fuel. I can only suggest you check all of your harness connections, your fuel pump fuse, etc. Maybe something got shorted out or disconnected when you pulled the trans. I'll take a look at my manual when I get home to see if there might be any other areas to check. Good luck!

Mark

I got tired of putting up with it so I took it to the shop. The bad news is, my timing belt may have jumped a tooth or more. The worse news is my valves may be bent because of it. Atleast I know why my car wouldnt start.

caniborrow50cnts;
Sounds like it just keeps getting worse! I didn't want to suggest the timing belt, usually they go when the engine is running, and with everything else that happened in such a short period of time it seemed like a long shot!

Despite the fact that you've been on a streak of bad luck, I tend to believe your valves will be ok. You stand the most chance of valve to piston contact when the belt fails at higher engine rpms. If yours broke or slipped as you were trying to start the car, chance are everything will be fine.

I have my fingers crossed for you!

Mark

All I can say, when I try to turn the harmonic balancer, I can only turn it most of the way around, not one complete turn. I was wondering if this was normal. The only thing I can think of since I don't think this is normal, either the valves are bent keeping the engine from turning or the timing is off causing this problem. Anyone know or would they be able to check their own. And yes, I tried this in neutral.

caniborrow50cnts;
May I ask, how are you turning the crank pulley? By hand? Do you have the belts off? Reason I ask is, on previous V8 engines I've owned I could literally grab the belts and the pulley and turn the crank. I can't do that on my Talon. There just isn't enough room to get in there, for one, and there really isn't a good place to grab either. There is a rubber plug inside the fender well on the drivers side which is directly in front of the crank pulley. If you pop the plug out you can insert a socket and extension through it, then turn the crank that way. I don't remember what size the crank pulley bolt is for sure, but I think it is a 22mm. It is normal to feel resistance as you are turning the crank around, but it isn't normal if you suddenly feel like something solid is preventing the crank from turning. Typically the easiest way is to turn the crank until it gets difficult, then wait a few seconds for the compression to bleed out of the cylinders. Repeat as necessary. If you do feel solid resistance, stop. At this point you have to decide if you want to go further, or bring it in for repairs. I don't think you want to pull of the timing cover and everything, then decide you're in over your head and bring it in to a shop. Most shops aren't too anxious to take over where you left off.

Mark

All you really have to do to turn the engine is stick a 1/2" rachet in the center of the balancer. I'm pretty sure that you are supposed to be able to do this but not positive. It's not very easy to turn, by that I mean there is some resistance. It gets to a certain point to where I can only do one incomplete turn before I can't turn it anymore. I'm sure the starter has more power to turn it with but I dont want to screw up my engine any worse unless I know this is normal, which I don't believe it is.

Oh and about the timing, it appears to have all happened at once. It is likely to have occured when I was driving along with the cv axle and tranny. I just didn't realize the timing was that far off when I first started on the transmission.

you know what, the deeper I go the more problems I find.
The balance shaft belt is totally shredded and cought up in the timing belt gears (and I was wondering how it jumped timing). I took the belt off and I can only turn the exhaust camshaft 1/4 turn and then its nearly impossible to move again. sounds like i have a set of bent valves.

caniborrow50cnts;
You shouldn't expect to be able to rotate the camshaft independently of the crankshaft and not come up with mechanical interference somewhere in the revolution. Remember, your valves have to open and shut in proper time with the piston strokes, or you can have valve to piston contact. Therefore you can expect contact if one of the pistons it at TDC when you try to rotate the cam around.

You need to get the belt on, with the crank at TDC, and with the two cams positioned so that the timing marks on the outside of the sprockets are facing each other. You don't need to spend time fine tuning the tensioner at this point, just tighten the tensioner up enough that the belt it nice and tight. Now you can turn the crank around and check for resistance. As long as everything feels ok rotating the crank around, take it around two complete revolutions and recheck all of your alignment marks, i.e., take the crank to TDC and verify that both cam sprocket timing marks are facing each other (3 oclock and 9 oclock positions). At this point you can check compression across the cylinders. If compression checks ok, you can fine tune the tensioner, double check all of the pulley bolts to be sure they're all tight, and button it up.

If, however, compression doesn't check well, you're going to have to pull the head.

Mark

I took a meter to the cylinders and the results weren't too pretty.
Cylinder 1 pressure (psi) was 0. Cylinder 2 was 3. Cylinder 3 was 123. Cylinder 4 was 118. Again since my engine wont start, I cannot get it up to normal operating temperature so I would expect a psi of about 120 though normal psi at normal temp should be 192psi. I will be spending the next couple of days pulling out all the valves. I know the max number of bent valves I have cant be more than 8 since I still have pressure in 2 cylinders. Hopefully I only have them all on the same side so I dont have to take off the intake and exhaust.

caniborrow50cnts;
My advice; just pull the head and bring it to a good machine shop to do the valve work. When you pull it, you should be able to see which valves hit, there should be marks on the tops of the pistons they hit.

Mark

I'm going to check the heads for cracks. The only problem with doing a valve job though, I don't know how to seat valves nor do I have the equipment to change them. Time to trick one of my friends into helping me for free.

caniborrow50cnts;
Reason I suggest just pulling the head and bringing it to a good machine shop, is because none of us are equipped with the tools needed to do a valve job at home in our garages. Shops have all the right tools to do the job right, measure everything up properly, and hell, they know exactly what they're doing!

That's what I would do personally. It will save you money in the long run.

BTW; I'm saying all of this on the premise that when you pull the head you don't find any piston or cylinder damage.

Mark

Ok, if anybody has any ideas I'm open to suggestions.
I have a 1992 eagle talon. Like everyone else, I broke my timing belt and had to replace half my motor. That was about six months ago.

About a month ago I started having random problems starting it. When you turn the key to the ON position (before you start the car) and all your dash lights are on the Check Engine light is not on. Until it comes on the car will not start. If you wait, there is a click underneith the dash, the light comes on, and it starts.

I relpaced the relay that was engaging when the light came on (the click), and for a couple of weeks it was fine. Two days ago I started it, drove it a quarter a mile down the street and it died. The Check Engine light flashed several times. I tried to restart it and it would start, go to about 2k rpm's and then die. This happened a few times and now it will not start at all.

For a split second when you turn the key on the check engine light is on and then it quickly goes off. The engine cranks but does not fire. The few times that I've gotten it to start it will go about 100 yards and the engine will die and you hear several clicks from underneith the dash.

Any suggestions?...

Yup, heres mine. Dont ressurect threads that are older than a couple weeks unless you are the original poster and read the rules. Welcome to AF.