Subrau v.s Ford

My friend just bought a 04 STi Impreza (stock & first manual car) and whats to race my friends 1988 5.0 Mustang GT (been driving stick for 1 year) . Not to mention that the whole motor has been rebuilt with ford racing motorsports performance parts. We are all eager to see which car is faster please let me know what you think. We will be racing these cars in the spring of 04. Thank you for you help

what do you think will win?

It all depends on what mods were done to the 'Stang. The STi is good for a solid 13 second quarter depending on weather--a stock 1988 GT will be in the 14's at best. (my friends 1988 LX 5.0 ran 14.6--lighter than GTs). The STI was running 13.5-14.0 in the quarter here in CAli in 90 degree weather with a strong headwind.

considering that Hot Rod magazine just compared the STi with a new cobra...
and the STi was quicker...
13.29 to 13.30 ( i know it's nothing, but it's quicker either way )

you'll have a tough time keeping up

keep in mind the magazines have pro drivers.
your friend who just started riving stick will probably lose because of that.
I could beat a 12 year old in a ferrari because he doesn't know how to drive it.
plus they were driving cars that had been roken in a little bit. new cars are usually slower.
I'd say it's a tie.

well im a ford guy but those little rubber bands are wound tight

well im a ford guy but those little rubber bands are wound tight

:icon16:

I'm not a grammar prude, I just thought that was funny.

The Subaru will take that Mustang to the cleaners off the line.

The Mustang might be able to pull off a brilliant loser pass after about a buck twenty though. This is all assuming we've all learned how to drive our expensive machinery by then. Holy HELL! where's my THIRTY THOUSAND DOLLAR+ first car? FRACK kids, talk about lucky. I think I'd rather put a down payment on a house and buy a used M3.

Im deff. going with the STI. Whether it loses or not.

the mustang would not happen to have a ford supercharger kit on it? not sure how much hp they make but i think the race could be close, depending on mods and driver skills

I'm not bashing the STi, but those Hot Rod guys can't drive the Cobra for shit then. WRX's are awesome, and I've had lots of good races with them. All the Hot Rod people did was bitch about how dated it was, or how hard it was to control, etc. I've driven lots of cars like these, and there is a reason I got the Cobra, cause I'm more of an Import guy myself.

didn't the 03 cobra in other mags. click some 12s off..anyone? screw chevy rod mag i mean hot rod mag...lol....i love that one. but in all seriousness i kinda like hot rods mag some times

didn't the 03 cobra in other mags. click some 12s off..anyone? screw chevy rod mag i mean hot rod mag...lol....i love that one. but in all seriousness i kinda like hot rods mag some times
Yeah and 11's and 10's, with very minor mods.

thank you... for a sec. i thought i was losing it..hahha.

10's and 11's can be had in an sti with some fairly basic mods as well...
they're both FI...

(yes, the cobra is s/c'd, did you just crawl out from under a rock????)

I think they both shine in their own way, with the sti as road going rally car and the cobra as a drag car. Mod for mod, the cobra would take the sti in the 1/4.

i'm going to argue that, but not well, only b/c i know for a fact that the cobra can make 600+ with just the blower swap from kenne bell on stock internals...
and it's starting with more hp...

here's the question:
what's a 600hp cobra run in the 1/4?
what's a 600hp sti run in the 1/4?

(i know that the easystreet wrx runs 700 or so hp, and is in the 9's, can a cobra with that power run that quick?)

i'm not saying yes or no, i'm just posing the questions.
tony riggoli (sp) in australia has some 9 second wrx's as well, with not a TON of hp (700 ish). he built the easystreet motor (easystreet is the red w/white striped wrx)

Sounds like you are pretty well informed about the sti. If I made an impression of bashing the sti, I wasn't trying to. A kenne-bell cobra from what I have read on other forums can run a low 10 in the quarter mile, most likely on slicks. I think it would be a resonable assumption then that a 700 hp cobra would be in the mid nine's then. So all in all, they seem pretty even then in the 1/4. Your point is made fly... tossup!

i wasn't assuming you were bashing the sti, just asking the question...
i'm pretty well informed on both cars (i'm a car enthusiast, not an import guy)
so if the 600hp kenne bell car can run 10's on slicks...
i'm assuming that a 600hp sti could easily keep up, and maybe do it on street tires (pure speculation of course)...

it's nice to find someone who doesn't want to argue on how domestics/imports are superior, and are willing to look at the cars for what they are... refreshing...

Thanks. Some of my former posts may sound like don't respect imports, but I do. I just don't like when people make simply ridiculous claims about a cars performance capabilities, be it domestic or import. As far as the question asked in this thread, it depends on the Mustangs mods (cams, heads intake etc..). You didn't mention anything about forced induction. Bolt on 5.0's can run deep into the twelves so watch out...

In a magazine i have a guy made his 03 cobra run 10's on the stock blower and stock internals.

no offense, but i DON'T believe you.
the stock blower is good for about 450ish hp. per the kenne belle SC install article.

450-500hp is not going to push that car to 10's.
it's too heavy.

what article, what magazine?

i know a guy here in dallas that has a late 80 mustang lx and its a built motor thats blown thats around 740 to the ground and runs mid to low 10s

No offense to anyone here but why is it that threads like this always have one or two people that come up with the..

"I have a buddy with an 800hp <insert car here> and he runs solid <insert obsurd time here>."

Honestly, if I'm at the track or a meet and somebody walks up to me to talk cars/mods I'm always very friendly whether they're a noob or a veteran. But if you start a conversation with me that starts off with " I have a buddy that has..." you will be talking to the back of my head for the rest of the day.

Peace.

10's and 11's can be had in an sti with some fairly basic mods as well...


I saw recently on TV where they took a new Cobra - swapped in a smaller pulley and used a power programmer (to retard timing a bit) - fucking thing put down 415 HP to the wheels.

A pulley and a power programmer. Unreal.


Back to this thread, I wouldn't even think of betting on the 5.0.

well, the cars put almost 380 to the wheels stock, so they're underrated... big surprise.
but what kind of times is 415hp in a cobra going to give you, compared to 415 in an sti?
i know that 320whp [wrx] gives you high 11's/low 12's (with a driver who isn't used to awd launches, and i know, b/c i was there)
so...
i'm still curious about this write up on the cobra with stock s/c and stock motor running 10's?

stock for stock the only reason the Sti was faster in that hot rod test was because of the AWD as you all know. Look at the MPH of the two cars. The STi ran the qtr in 104, while the mustang did it in 109mph. a set of sticky tires and that mustang is running mid to high 12's in the qtr. As for the 5.0 and the STi im with dvs lt1. no dice on the 5.0 by going from the discription you have given us about it.

...but what kind of times is 415hp in a cobra going to give you, compared to 415 in an sti?...

What kind of times is a 20psi fed STi going to give you, compared to a 20psi fed Cobra.

And I'm talking all things being equal when it comes to launching (heck, you do up a Cobra's suspension right and that bitch will hook as good as any car). Play it fair and give the V8 the same amount of steroids as the Sti and see what happens.

can you honestly say that the mods to get an sti on 20psi vs. a 20psi cobra are the same?
no, you really can't.
and honestly, the suspension in the sti is far better for hooking off the line and keeping the power down.
the cobra is not. the IRS is not ideal for the 1/4, which is part of the reason that they aren't as quick as everyone thinks they should be.

also, equal PSI does not mean equal mods. never has, never will.

can you honestly say that the mods to get an sti on 20psi vs. a 20psi cobra are the same?
no, you really can't.
and honestly, the suspension in the sti is far better for hooking off the line and keeping the power down.
the cobra is not. the IRS is not ideal for the 1/4, which is part of the reason that they aren't as quick as everyone thinks they should be
also, equal PSI does not mean equal mods. never has, never will.

Who ever implied it would cost the same to get a Cobra and STi running 20psi? :uhoh:

Who ever said the same mods will give you the same psi?? :disappoin

The blower on the 32-valve 4.6L DOHC V8 Cobra engine is mickey mouse compared to the turbocharged STi. The Subaru is pumping 14.5psi of boost compared to the Cobra's 8.0psi (and the STi is air-to-air intercooled!).

The fact of the matter is the STi's engine is all turbo and relies heavily on this design. The Cobra is essentially running the same naturally-aspirated 8 year old 310 HP 32-valve V8, modified with a forged crank and lower compression pistons. It is being fed almost half the boost of the STi and making 90 more HP than the Subaru.

What are we discussing here?

Do you think the STi has a better engine than the Cobra? The Cobra was all engine to begin with my friend, and would wipe that rally-bread fart car in an acceleration test using planet Earth's normal atmospheric conditions. (no blower, no turbo)

Do you think the STi has a more powerful engine than the Cobra "as is" from the factory? Of course you don't. However, its lighter chasis and AWD help utilize its 14.5psi fed 300 horses better than the Cobra's 8psi fed 390 horses.

Do you think the STi is capable of achieving greater HP gains than the Cobra for relatively the same or less cost? Depends how much of a gain we're talking about. I for one am going to try and find out which TV show I previously saw the Cobra modified on - where they simply took a smaller supercharger pulley and computer programmer to get 415 rear-wheel HP off the car.

That adds up to no more than $500 if you bend down and swallow the cost of a stupid Hypertech unit (where you could get someone to re-program your PCM for probably $100-150 instead). Basically, 415 rear-wheel HP on a Cobra is very attainable for not even $250. I would be very impressed if an STi could pull off 415 RWHP (roughly 175 additional flywheel HP!) from a $250 mod.

So what is left to argue? That when you finally get that 415 RWHP from the STi it will smoke the 415 RWHP Cobra? Traction aside, having close to a 400lb weight advantage will obviously provide an advantage. But you will have to do more to beef up the STi's engine power to get to 415 RWHP than the Cobra. You will easily be running more than twice the Cobra's boost to get to that level. My point in the last post was if you give the V8 the same amount of boost as the H4, its all over. But you know this and its not hard to believe. So why are you fixated on this scenario where "YOU increase your Cobra's psi to 9 or 10 but retard your timing - and I'LL boost my STi's psi to 16 or 17, advance timing, and add a better intercooler...and lets see what happens." :p

I don't dispute it would be cheaper to get an STi pumping (and properly utilizing) 20psi than a Cobra - but again thats because they are designed for high boost. Even with a smaller SC pulley on a stock Cobra, the engine is not getting the most from the increased boost because timing must be retarded to prevent detonation (hence the necessity of PCM tweaking). You'd probably be looking at a full 4340 rebuild before you could feed the V8 20psi of boost with full/advanced timing. The STi's motor could take it with much less radical mods. And that whole bit about severely underrating the Cobra's HP is bullshit - Ford has no other car to protect by doing that, and they would just love to have a Cobra pushing 405 HP like the General's Z06. Ford could easily get 405 HP out of the Cobra - but warranty, reliability, safety concerns, and PRICE would change. Again, the Cobra's V8 was not originally designed to crank out 405 HP under boost.

As far as suspension/traction goes, I know how crazy the Subaru's can be made to handle. From the factory the STi does have the advantage over the Cobra. But sink a few dollars into the Cobra's suspension and that bitch will be made to hook as good as any other car out there. Nevermind, you go spend a couple hundred bucks bumping an STi up to 16 or 17psi and a bigger intercooler - I'll take that same money and dump it into the Cobra's suspension. Then see what 390 stock HP will do at the track.

So what are we arguing about again?

Oh ya.

STi - "If I've got 415 RWHP and you've got 415 RWHP then I'm going to beat you."

Cobra - "Well if you're running 20psi and I'm running 20psi then I'm going to beat you twice as bad as you beat me before!"

i aint skred of AWD :smokin:

how much money would you have to put into the suspension to get a cobra to run like the SVT cobra R cause thats only slightly better if not equal to the STI's handling...


oh and dont forget AWD owns you :iceslolan :icon16:
i keed i keed...

the mustang would not happen to have a ford supercharger kit on it? not sure how much hp they make but i think the race could be close, depending on mods and driver skills

Muscle Mustang and Fast Fords just did a three way comparison of Ford's Mustang line, The cars were a GT Mustang, Cobra Mustang, And a Mach 1...

The Cobra ran 12:40 bone stock... Lets' see Subaru try and match that.


Here is the link...

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/features/0404mm_must/

I have an 04 mustang GT 5 speed, stock, I raced an STI. I launched the car perfectly. The sti got a car length on me right from the start, but after that I kept right up with it. i passed him at about 85 mph. there not as quick as you think, the only reason there so fast off the line is because they are all wheel drive. Its a great car from 0 to 60 but after that they are doggs.

Once again, If the thread is on another page other than the first or maybe the second one..... PEOPLE ARE NOT POSTING IN IT!!! Every single form online has rules about bringing up old posts. Read the guidelines before you post...

Thread closed.