Camaro Reliability

I am looking into 94-96ish Z28's or Formula (firebird of course), with the 6 speed. The thing is i read a consumer reports thing that said they had terrible reliability. I am looking at a '95-'99 Mustang GT b/c of price and its a nice car, but i like the f-body more. The thing is consumer reports sorta scared me away from the car, i am afraid to go with it because of problems. This car is going to be my daily driver and i will need it to last for years. Is the bad reputation of older gen f-bodies hurting the rep of the new ones? I need advice, thanks.

The F-Body got a bad reputation from the late 70's - early 80's.

Since the 90's, GM has built the F-Body VERY well!

I've owned both a '99 Firebird and now my '01 Trans Am WS6 and NEVER had a problem with EITHER of them....
If you really want an F-Body, get one and I promise you won't regret it.
Especially when you realize that all the Ford guys are lookin' at your taillights! :D

Geez Blackbird, not all ford guys, all the time!!! :D

hehehe, I know.
I know a LOT of people with some seriously fast Fords.
How about a '90 Notch with a 331 Stroker with a Turbo mated to a C6 at a 4000 stall....Mmmm, leaving the line making full boost!
Oh man, it's a sweet car. I just like bustin you Ford owners' balls! :D

Don't abuse her (too much) and she will be loyal. Consumer Reports gets their number from Corp offices and all they see is a sheet of paper that says a certin amount of cars (under warrenty) are having trouble and have been brought in for various repairs. Guess who owns 75% of these cars? Young guys with too much car and too little brain. Its a bad combo and in turn the Camaro gets a bad rep.

I've owned a 1989 IROC since new. It has been a woderful car mechanically only stranding me once with a dead battery in it's 130K miles. The paint wasn't as good though, as GM switched to the water-borne paint that year and my car was repainted 4 times under warranty. It never did look right until I spent big bucks for a ground-up refinishing.
The body squeaked and felt flimsy sometimes before I welded-in subframe connectors. In 1992 I started hopping-it-up and now have a 420 hp beast that is still a blast to drive, gets 26 mpg on the highway, and starts-up every morning.
Maintainence and restraint are the keys to keeping a Camaro alive and yourself happy. Dog it, and it will bite you!
Russ

Hey Russ now it 420 hp i sorry that last year.. didn't like the deleusional incoherant part on the Jeta thread. by hthe wway a chi is the way to go... my spec v i heaard form Nismo Japan already has a 40 whp chio coming ..price unknown.. but if you figure you jettaweigh in a t 300lbs more you'll need a 70hp boost from you chip if we beleive the severa aerticle that ay they are pretty dead even.. C'mon not bad for a 4 banger thats not ricey.. oh i get the car back today i know our bet is off( even though i should get the money:)

about the 3 and 4th gen Camaroes,, they are fine so long as you maintain them,, they were designed to be driven hard cars that flywheel from 325to 375 aren't meant to be grocery getter.. and the Ford gys always see my tail lights i've yet to lose too a ford and i'm 37-1 overall

Spyk come round me I got a Ford we'll see if you can show tailights:devil:

I've redynoed so i have more hp. bettterplanatary gear ration higher shtal a beeter auto the 4l80 e uis no the standard 4l60 e cammed amtch ported stock vavles are 2.02 a 1.60.. i really dont think you wana do this but for fun i',m game i even have 150lhs of weight reduction.. a dana posi rear end.. we can keep it for fun i don't want to take you mony my 60' times are inthe 1.5x midish

Its areal rocker many 03 conra with e diablo exahst no cats nitto's and intake,,the lighning maf have bnen victims .. i'm just warning you i know afr head are aesome.. but i really don't think they outflow the Ls1 even in a 347 srocke.. it might be close but even my ls1 edit 1 IT PLOT A/F AND TINING EVERY 200RPMAR WOT.S IT TAKE 2 DATS TO GET IT RIGHT ITH A pc AND A LABTOP A SAN MASTER the sPiDer lpe intake that match ported as well as the slp ful length.. if your in Forida.. i live i mile from Steeda so i geto race all the s/c STANGS AND WANA BE'S. IF YOUR CLOSE I'LL MEAT YOU ATTHE TOWERS IN DAVIE..

AND I HAVE EC=VERY BOLTON YOU CAN HAVE ALONG WITH REAL RAM AIR WERE UNNELS GO RIGHT INTO YOU AIRBOX AND ARE SEAALED CREATING 1.23 BPSI AT 95 MPH PULLEYS , FLYWHEEL YOU ANAME IT THIS wS6 HAS IT BUT I WON'T GO ANYTHING BUUT nA .. I HVE A DRY NOS YSTEM INSTALED BUT THERE IS NO BOTTLE SO PEOPLE KOW DON'T CHEAT GRANATELI COLD AIR CUSTO CALIBRATED MAF . UNDERDRIVE PULLEYS B NO CATS REAL DUAL EXHAUST .SPINTECH MUFFLERS... SSHE IS A MACHINE

FOR FON WHY NOT MOBIL INTHE CRAN AMSOL INTHE TRANNY AND REDLINE INTHE REAR END 65/35 WATER TO ANTIFREEZE MIX ,,

2 BOTTES OF WATER WETTER OH THE MAF/ CNC PORTEDR TB KNIFE EGED
GROUND DOWN CENTER POEST AND TTHROTTLE STP GROUD FOR 100% OPENING NOTLIKE THE STOCK TH THAT ONLY OPE TO 85% AT WOT

LETS SEE WAHT ELSE

SBFEM 3 POINT CONNECTORS. STRUT TOWER 3POINT,, G R PANHARD BAR G2 ROREU AR 1LE SWAY BAR DIMENSION 1 INCH DROP EIBACH SPRINS ADJUSTABLE REAR AIR BAD
315 35 17 NIIO'S
POLY BUSHINGS ALL AROND




ND THE UNDE CARRIAGE IS SEALED WITHROOF FLASHINING FOR BETTER DRG COEFICIENT AND DOWNFORCW AND BATTERY KIT INTHE TRUNK/ REAR REAR SEAT DELEAT COSTOM ELAGANT MAJOR WIGHT REDUCTION
AND A 100 WAT SYSTEM 550OF WHICH WAS PIGGYBACKED ONTO THE EXSISTING mONSON 2 SOFT DOME (NO WEIGH0 AND I 10" SUB( ABOUT 10 LBS) FREE AIR

stANGS AND YOU ARE LIGHTER EVEN THOUthat plots every 100rpm and NOW THTAT YOU KNOW ARE YOU SURE WE CAN DO IT FOR FUN I DOUBT MY RECORD WILL CHANGE BUT EERY HAS A HANCE I'M NOT THAT OCKY.. YOU MIGHT DO WELL BUT BEAT ME FOR SOME RESON UNLESS YOU MO LIST IS MISSING SOMETHING,, DO I HAVE TOSAY IS

OH THE CAM IS A REVESRSE SPLIT CAM 230/224.575/.563111LSA.. POWER BAND IS 2200 TO 6800 OH AND A REV KIT NOLOGY WIRES A RE bERU sILERSTONE PLUG...PURE SILVER PLUGS A ND TH NOLOGY WIRES ARE CAPACITIVE,,THEY STORE ENERGY

I'VE INVESTED ALOT.. THAT WHY I CANMAKE A BOLDSTATEMENT THAT NO STANG HAS EVER BEAT ME EVER IN 2 YEARLIING NEST TO sTEDA.. I'M NOT FLAMING YOU BUT I AM SURLY CONFIDANT.NOT NERVOUS AT ALL
iF YOU ARE IN SO FLORIDA WHERE I S DYNOED AND DYNO DOE NOT TAKE INTO ACUNT THE 1.25 PSI FROM THE RMA AIR
I DYNOD AT 83 DEGEES WITH57% BHUMIDIDY

IF YOUR SMART YOU CAN FGURE HOW LOW MY DYNO IS TO SAY ANON HUMIT 65-68 DEGREE DAY.. I KNOW YOU ARE A SAART GUY ANYONE SMART ENOUGHTO GO TO aRT cAR IS ACHAMP IN MY BOOK

PEAC AND IF YOUR CLOSE GOOD LUCK...NOT T BE COCKY YOU'LLNEED IT.. WHAT IF I SPOT YOU 6 CARS FOR MONEY??? SORRY I NEED MODS FOR THE ZR1 ..AND BY THE AY CAN YOU GO 170= IN YOUR CAR THE WS6 AN WITHOUT FLATING TIGHT AS A VIRGINE

Hey, you are running the TR230/224 111LSA also? I'm running it on my '98 M6 Formula. I haven't had tuning yet, and i'm only running 3.73's, but its still pretty nice so far.

fORMULA THAT COOL YOU GOT IT TOUGH THUNDER RACING??
GT 4-5GYS AND BUYR TE LS1 EDIT. I'S SO __CING AZINF ITWILLDO THING FOR YOU YO CAN'T IMAGINE..

YEAH THE 6M CA AHNDLE THE 4.10'S EASILY.. BUTHRE AUTO STERT WITH 3.23.. AND THE 3.73 IS PERFECT FOR IT...ANY HIGHER AND I'D LOSE TIME SO YOU REDLINE AT 6800?

I'VE GONE OVER MY TRANNY WITH MECHANICAL ENGINEERS AND THEY SAY IT CLOSE TOPERFECT ..IT THEY MADE A 3.90.. THAT WOULD BE PERFECT
COOL YO LIKE TO CHECK UP ON THE STANGS TO... nA THE LS1 IS THE SH_T. WIT I DID MY HEADS AT TETIME DO YOU HAVE A REV KIT THAT HELPS OUT THETHE RSC BY LIKE 30 HP
GLAD TO MEAT YA

I need to either spill the cash and buy LS1edit, or just take it in for dyno tuning. I want to get heads, if i do i'm going for some stage II heads, and those prices are getting up there.

I bough an extra 10 bolt with the 3.73's in it, which the guy told me where 4.10s (i didn't take off the differential cover to see the stamp on the pinion). But its ok, the 3.73's are still decent.

If i can, before i leave for school i might sell the formula and buy a daily driver corolla/civic (something cheap, economic, reliable) and then have a sport bike to ride around (i'll be in a more rural area). I love my formula though.

CY

if you are anything like the f-bad owners down here your Formulaitalmot mint..

a 98 Formula isn't gonna command alt of moey( though it should) maybe 11-13k tops... i'm serios

your Sport bide (wihitch i almost bought on) is gonn run yo about 6-8 k new... that doesn't jeave you will alot of doe


Yeah you no doing the heads when you did the cam .. imean its the labor that'll kill you..look on the clessified of LS1.com

And for god s sakeyour more than half way thei . the Formula's look cool.. weigh a litle lesd ( than a t/a

If you realy do sell it and its in goo shae.. ( hell i know you beat on it that does not matter)..give me a numer maybe we can work ut a deal.... i'll warn you it won't be a 1/4 mile care i'll make it an Autocrosses..ok a little drag


and the Ls1 edit yo need to get it witha couple of other f-bod owner .. buying it yourself(imean its awesome but the price is like almost for heads)

If you ever do get the ls1 edit.. selling your car will be a passsing memory... yeah its that good.. dude that cam should alon have made your car a monsteralong withthe 3.73 .ok not the best gear for the 6m but you can wind out if you have suficient torque and hp and the right cam****..
Not alot of guys pick that cam hows your idle.. cause you can drill a hole in the Tb plateand that might take care of alot of you ills

whatever you do Cy.. good luck and Never ever let them Stang boys win..lol

take care Amigo

Sgt Al Camo FHP

yes its good to have an SS interceptor speed when ever i want and carry a gun. all legal. life doesn't get much better for me


lol
take a guess on which car i never give a ticket to... any way its hard enough to catch em being they have a moded ls1 while the interceptor has the slp police pacage exaust/intake.. wow
but i put in a few left over in my car when i can

Originally posted by Spyk

Sgt Al Camo FHP

yes its good to have an SS interceptor speed when ever i want and carry a gun. all legal. life doesn't get much better for me

FHP? Florida Highway Patrol?

Had to keep you geusing Walker

the hours i keep

keeping in top shape..defense classes

now the last name is scammbled and i won't give out the troop but surprise Murco

Your not the only won "politicaly connected"

CApt egeli will vouch fo me..if you chose to persue..

that why meting me in person face to face.. knowing that most of my one step kiilling techiques are quite rusty

i would ot have arrested you .. you've been checked out Marine

anywon who wear a uniform to Honor this country .. is allright byme..we just have to much testosterone..and passion

that why street racing isn't a problem for me..since i mostly take out the high enf or highly modded importstey get quite the ticket count

ya see i don't leach off the system after all.. i just led you to belive it..and from the pict realy what do i ilook ike.. high and tight in top shape at almost 40.. it is for a reason


oh as far as Honor don't you think you should appologize about 1 me being a kid
2. me not owning real muscle.. ohad even a top Zr1 expert thati show my pict too said its imosible from thatangle to say its not a Zr1 ..and since he had the actaul photo.. the 3k paint and bodykit his word not mie forthe miles on the car the car looks brand new i'llget you a dig photo in he Future.. still love torun for fun.. the origisnl bet first then the iroc clone.forfun and meet you..no officail titles involved

sorry i hadto bend the truth but in my profesion names addresses and whatnot aren't the right thing to giveout to a unknown.. you said yourself yousuffer from ptsd.. sowho know..

damn wish you could have helped me withhthe cherryt1.. just tell me thiscan 9 without major work sine i have the enginr trany and rear axle it be retrofited in say a Gran pris gtp or mabe even better a 87-88 MonteCqrlo ss

yoo hould appologize
since tehy were the bet parameters..i ee yu not workin todyno am i.. wanna meat up at moroso




today? and yes i have an assided SS intercptor

and our standard issue is a a 92f and a MP5
later Walker
Al

Originally posted by Spyk
Had to keep you geusing Walker
the hours i keep
keeping in top shape..defense classes
now the last name is scammbled and i won't give out the troop but surprise Murco
Your not the only won "politicaly connected"
CApt egeli will vouch fo me..if you chose to persue..
that why meting me in person face to face.. knowing that most of my one step kiilling techiques are quite rusty
i would ot have arrested you .. you've been checked out Marine
:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Spyk
sorry i hadto bend the truth but in my profesion names addresses and whatnot aren't the right thing to giveout to a unknown.. you said yourself yousuffer from ptsd.. sowho know..
Al
Ummm, I don't, and have never claimed to have PTSD...

Originally posted by Spyk
CY

if you are anything like the f-bad owners down here your Formulaitalmot mint..

a 98 Formula isn't gonna command alt of moey( though it should) maybe 11-13k tops... i'm serios

your Sport bide (wihitch i almost bought on) is gonn run yo about 6-8 k new... that doesn't jeave you will alot of doe


Yeah you no doing the heads when you did the cam .. imean its the labor that'll kill you..look on the clessified of LS1.com

And for god s sakeyour more than half way thei . the Formula's look cool.. weigh a litle lesd ( than a t/a

If you realy do sell it and its in goo shae.. ( hell i know you beat on it that does not matter)..give me a numer maybe we can work ut a deal.... i'll warn you it won't be a 1/4 mile care i'll make it an Autocrosses..ok a little drag


and the Ls1 edit yo need to get it witha couple of other f-bod owner .. buying it yourself(imean its awesome but the price is like almost for heads)

If you ever do get the ls1 edit.. selling your car will be a passsing memory... yeah its that good.. dude that cam should alon have made your car a monsteralong withthe 3.73 .ok not the best gear for the 6m but you can wind out if you have suficient torque and hp and the right cam****..
Not alot of guys pick that cam hows your idle.. cause you can drill a hole in the Tb plateand that might take care of alot of you ills

whatever you do Cy.. good luck and Never ever let them Stang boys win..lol

take care Amigo

Sgt Al Camo FHP

yes its good to have an SS interceptor speed when ever i want and carry a gun. all legal. life doesn't get much better for me


lol
take a guess on which car i never give a ticket to... any way its hard enough to catch em being they have a moded ls1 while the interceptor has the slp police pacage exaust/intake.. wow
but i put in a few left over in my car when i can

If i sell my formula down here, i'll get a bit more than 11-13k, there aren't many V8 f-bodies for sale around here, so i see equivalents of mine go up to 15k even (not all the time).

I'm going to go used with a sport bike (probably a CBR600 F3) and that can be had fairly cheap, and a decent/good used civic or corolla is fairly cheap as well.

As for labor on the heads, i don't worry about it, i put in all my parts (i did my headers, cam, springs/retainers/etc, rear ends, and even the rear end gears although i had someone help me set the lash). Only stuff i don't do is exhaust stuff b/c i can't weld.

The problem with going in with a few people on an LS1 edit is that i'm moving about 10 hours away from here in a few months, and i don't know that many people where i'm moving with LS1's that would go in on something like that.

With an LS6 intake manifold, underdrive pulley, and tuning i could probably get close to 400rwhp (maybe a few smaller bolt-ons, but not too much else).

My idle is pretty good once it has found it, which takes about 5-10 seconds. With the heater on or something the idle can surge just a touch sometimes, but nothing bad. My car has a lot of quirks with the cam, so no one else is able to drive it, haha. This guy at the tire place tried to get it from a parking space to the lift (20-30 feet) and he stalled a good 5 or 6 times...hahah, i just laughed my ass off b/c i knew he would stall and when.

gOD BLESS YOU IF YOU CAN GET 15K FOR IT.. A WAS AMAZED THE OTHER DAY I SAW A WS6 "AUTOMATIC" MINT STOCK LOW MILES FOR 18K.. I WAS IN SHIOCK BECAUSSE I'VE BEEN OFFERED OVER 2 35 K ON MY CAR...( HAVING A BUILT AUTO BY ART CARR MAKES A DIFFERENCE)

DIN'T KNOWYOU WERE SO MECHANICALLY INCLINES..YPOU DO KNOW THE LS6 MANI IS ON ALL 01-02 LS1 SO IF YOU FIND ONE FOR AFEW HOURS YOU COULD ACTUALLY FOOL THE JUNK GUY AND GET VAVLE SPRINGS FOR NEXT TO NOTHING,,AND IN THE MEANTIME JUST HAPPEN TO POP YOUR MANI ON THE 01 AND 01 ON YOURS BOOM THEIRS YOUR ls6

YOU HAVE HADER RIGHT.. YOU SHOULD MATCH PPOERT THEM AT WELL IF YOU WERE TO DECIDE THE SPIDER LPE MANIFOL CAN BE MATCH PORTED.. ALTHOUGH IT DOES CATCH SOME HEAT SOAK IT SUPERIOR FLOW )WEVEN THOUGH ITS SUPOSED TO ME ABOUT HTE SAME AS THE LS6 MANI.. AND THE ABILITY TO MATCH PORT MAKE FOR REAL NICE FLOW CHARACTERISTICS WITH STOCK 210 CC HEADS CLEAN UPTHE FLOW A BIT AND WATCH OUT... THATS FUNNY ABOUT YOR CAM.. YOU CAN ALWAYS GO A DIFFERENT ROUT MANY HPERTECHPROGRAMMER UNIT SELLFOR CHEAPUSED..AND TEN HYPERTECH CAN MAKE A COUTOMPROGRAM FOR YOUR CAM FOR 150 MORE..YOU'D SPEND THE ORIGINAL 350 THE THOSE HYPERTECH COST..THEY WORKED WELL ON THE EARLIER LS1 I GAVE MINE BAKE

I WAS ALO GONNA GET A MID SIZE GSXR FOR SME 2 WHEEL ROCKECT FUN.. BUT I'D REALL RATHER SHE WHICH CAR I CAN PART WITH ..I HAVE A FEW MORETHAN LISTED (2 STANGS A 95 5.0 AND A 99 gT BOTH WELL MODDED GOOD CARS THE 95 IS SPRAYED BUT THEY ARE BOTH ONLY HIGH 12'S AT BEST

MAN I WANT A BOSS HOSS WITH LS1 BETWEEN YOUR LEGS ITS A 2 SPEED AUTOMATIC0-60 IN 2.0 SECOND THEORETICAL TOP END 200MPH EVEN
AND A9 SECOND FALT 1/4 NOW IMAGINE PUTING A BOLTS NS TO THAT LS1 MY NEIGHBOR HAS ONE AND HE LIKES MY STANGS (HE'S A FORD FREAK) SO I FIGURE I'LL SANDBAG A RACE WITH zR1 LET HIM WIN IN THE 99 ( ITS ALL sTEEDA'D OUT..AN WILL A COUPLE K I MIGHT HAVE THE ONLY BIKE THAT MAKE HARLY RIDERS LOOK LIKE PINK DRESSED SISSIES..AND ITS AMERICAN


KEEP IT TOUCH

"The definition of peace is not an absence of conflict. The definition of peace is being willing and able to defend yourself." --

an uneducated low tech poorly engineered shitty handling live axle piece of garbage car ignoramus' definition of peace

hey I had a 2nd gen and i never got stranded but since were talking new ones i dunno but I know about the GT stangs 94-98 style suck for a peformance point of view. I know some one would has a all stock 97 GT and the intake manifold split open (plastic) which sucks cause its a pain to put a new one on and there costly. 4.6 GTs run like 15 second et's (stock) ask you self this..Do I like looking at Engine swaped Civic,CRX tail lenses? The LT1 are bad ass cars. People have got them in the 12's with bolt ons and ring and pinion swap. If I was looking for a stang from 94-98 style Id get the older 94-95 with the last of the 5.0. The 5.0 is a better engine and accepts mods better. If you have more money to spend and want a stang get the newest style GT. They can keep up with a LT1. I would buy a Z28 or T/A but my 70 pick up is where my moneys getting invested.

Thread is more than 3 months old, no need to bring it up...just fyi.

I didn't understand a damn word of that.

Originally posted by skyliner34GT500
"The definition of peace is not an absence of conflict. The definition of peace is being willing and able to defend yourself." --

an uneducated low tech poorly engineered shitty handling live axle piece of garbage car ignoramus' definition of peace
Hmmm, nice way to start-off here noob... You may be going the way of Spyk here shortly, as in gone! Please direct such personal attacks off the board in the future.

Originally posted by skyliner34GT500
"The definition of peace is not an absence of conflict. The definition of peace is being willing and able to defend yourself." --

an uneducated low tech poorly engineered shitty handling live axle piece of garbage car ignoramus' definition of peace
I tried to do this in a PM but you have disabled them and didn't list an e-mail, so.... Since you list Japan as your home country we have to assume it's some form of radiation poisoning that causes such outbursts.
:banhim: :22yikes: :22yikes: :newbie:

iam also looking for a 95 tosay 99 camaro they are good cars.
and they reliability is really good.
IF U LIKE THE CAR U GO OUT AND BUY IT DONT LISTEN TO ANY OF YOUR FRIEND CAUSE THEY MUST BE STANG FANS.
MY FRIEND THINKS HE SATNG IS THEKING OF THE ROAD ITSA 94 CORBA I DROVE IT AND IT A DOG :)

Camaros arent reliable at all. They never breake down and you cant drive them anywhere because all they do is run. Buy a old beetle and you can fix them all you want. Its very reliable and its only broke down 4 times in the past 2 weeks. I love my beetle and they even run when somebody stole my engine. I popped the hood to change my oil and there was no engine. I guess it can run off the battery by itself. I love beetles

harrybeaver, what is with you putting camaro's down? do you actually think we are going to get a 50HP volkswagon instead? :iceslolan if i were you, i would stop putting the camaro down because all you are doing is making yourself look bad and putting a bad track record of yourself here on af. So if you want to keep being negative about camaro topics then i figure you won't be around much longer. My sugestion to you is, stay out of the camaro threads unless you have useful and helpful things to say. Remember, respect is the key. :wink:

:eek7: Am i the only one that didnt understand SH!T what Spyk posted, i know this is an old thread but... Goddamn... Goddamn!! :eek7:

Also, 99' Z-28, i believe he was joking... Or at least i hope so :tongue:


skyliner34GT500 :thefinger Every other word out of your mouth is "The twisties" "handling" "Shitty Live-Axle" ... Get out more kid... If you so happen to see the light of day, you would find out that not everyone lives in an "Initial D" world/fantasy :smile:

Also, 99' Z-28, i believe he was joking... Or at least i hope so
lol, yes i would hope so too.
I have always heard camaro's are pretty good cars. The V-6 models had some problems i do believe.

99' Z-28, :bigthumb: Your car looks badass man... :smile:

Originally posted by DkShadow
:eek7: Am i the only one that didnt understand SH!T what Spyk posted, i know this is an old thread but... Goddamn... Goddamn!! :eek7:

Oh, he turned-out to be truly disturbed! I think Igor finally banned him awhile back as he was just off the map! He thought he was a cop, drove 60 "pimp-ass rides" (all of which were the fastest of their kind on earth), and all sorts of other grand claims... You've gotta go read his other posts!!

Originally posted by DkShadow
skyliner34GT500 :thefinger Every other word out of your mouth is "The twisties" "handling" "Shitty Live-Axle" ... Get out more kid... If you so happen to see the light of day, you would find out that not everyone lives in an "Initial D" world/fantasy :smile:
:owned:

well unfortunately about American cars you are totally 100% correct.. American automobile engineers are lazy and lack technical prowess, that's why they make up for their laziness in their huge metro transit authority sized engines.. they lack the skills to design an engine that gets 100 hp/liter so they have to make huge engines to get a measly 400 hp... while honda has been designed 100 hp/liter production engines since 1989 ..with the b16... you see .. when you have japanese engine manufacturers being superior in every way.... more reliable... first to incorporate variable valve timing and lift in and engine... first to make LEV ULEV, and SULEV standards,,, first to make an electric/gas hybrid, first to make a fuel cell production vehicle, well then you have to make up for your deficiencies by being outrageous and unpractical... something like the cadillac 16.. a 16 cylinder engine which will find no practical use this side of the univerise.. instead of impressing with your credentials and technical know how you have to impress in other ways.. like being the quickest to build a production auto from concept to production. such as the ford Gt.. and it ends up looking like someone thought it up the night before production... in a single word... shoddy... of course.. i haven't gotten to the most important part of the diatribe yet.. and that is... consumer reports and JD powers... JD powers gave the NSX it's most reliable car rating of ANY car in a five year study.. and we are talking about a sports car here too... sadly that same accolade has never been given to an American sports car in the last 20 years.. because of the simple fact.. American engineers are lazy and do not have lofty goals.. sure camaros may make 350 hp ..but from 6.0 liters that's hardly an accomplishment... barely.. 60 hp/liter.. i bet japanese high school students could design a more efficient engine... now i know some of you are gonna make the old model engine analogy.. well sorry ... an engine which is hundreds of times smaller is not a valid comparison by any measure..so your point is null.. just accept the fact that Japanese engineers put more careful thought and precise engineering into their vehicles resulting in products that 1) last longer, 2) look better 3) handle better 4) are superior in their efficiency

also Consumer reports did a 3 year study of all vehicles and found on average that american cars has 22 problems per 100 vehicles while japanese cars has an average of 11 problems per 100 vehicles.. the proof is in the numbers.. it's okay if you don't agree .. but the numbers speak for themselves.. and no amount of mud slinging or asian hating is gonna change the fact that american publications prove that japanese cars are better built.. if you want a car that is superior in efficiency, design, and quality.. buy japanese PLAIN AND SIMPLE

all the name calling in the world isn't gonna change the fact that your camaro wasn't built to handle.. and no your 400 ci of d isn't going to make up for that in the twisties.. you are the one living in the fantasy.. the real world involves cornering.. and engineering.. in japan we don't value cars based on their straight line acceleration.. to do that . puts emphasis on only one aspect of a cars performance..while ignoring the other equally if not more important dynamics.. any race car driver will tell you the most imporant characteristic of a car is it's handling.. of course.. ask a redneck and you'll get a different answer.. i understand you were raised to believe the only thing that matters in a sports car is how fast it goes when you mash the gas... fortunately.. the rest of the world knows better... that's why when you talk to people from europe, australia and asia.. they know and have greater respect for real sports cars..like the evo, sti, silvia, rx-7, supra tt, nsx, and skylines.. and if you ask most of them what they'd choose a camaro or evo.. most of them would probably tell you evo.. I understand you Americans are deprived, in terms of both education ranking an abysmal 26th in terms of math and science, and culture.. but open your eyes... and you'll see a whole world of high quality, precision engineered, beautiful japanese sports cars out there which most of the world prefers to the crass, unrefined crude camaros and mustangs

sorry i graduated college with a 3.8 GPA and have a demonstrated IQ of 140 placing me in the top 1% of intellect pool.. i hardly think a redneck rustang driving, camaro loving, soppy idiots are gonna "own" me.. although I'm sure IQ means round your parts.. i'd probably do better with a 3.84 rear and mullet to match

if you are not a fan of camaros what the fuck are you doing in the camaro forum. you dont come into someone's house and start saying shit. its just not very smart.:loser:

Ok skyliner, first off are you talking about performance or reliability? Don't spout numbers of GENERAL American vs. Import reliability if you wanna talk about performance.

I hate the hp per liter/cu arguement...guess what, a civic may be more efficient, but it will get its ass kicked by an inefficient camaro.

You think they can't pull more power out of a camaro? Well, first off there is the LS6 (same engine except for a few small changes) that puts out 405hp. Now, you have to think about emissions, and insurance rates. You think if they squeeze every bit of horsepower out of it, more people will buy and it will be more affordable?

American manufacturers being lazy? I think not. You may not like the styling of domestic cars, but i do (i think most imports look like they belong in cartoons). You may not like the interiors, but they aren't as bad as you think they are (i've seen worse interiors in imports).

I respect some imports, but there are far too many imports that are marketed as fast, but as slow as crap. How many low priced imports are fast stock?

Then you get up to the other cars in high price ranges. There is the NSX and that is comperable to the price of the Viper. The NSX is a joke. It is only considered an exotic by people who own NSX's, they are slow, and their aftermarket sucks. The viper's interior isn't the best, but its a fast car...it does what it is supposed to and for less $$$.

I like imports for luxury (see BMW, Mercedes, etc), i like American for speed (better for making fast), and imports such as honda for realiable daily drivers and the once in a while badass cars like the supra's.

100 horsepower per liter... How nice... You've got 160hp out of 1.6liters.


But I've still got more horsepower.... funny how that works.

And to be exact, i've got 67hp per liter.



Next, you might say something along the lines of Power to weight ratio...

I've got a power to weight ratio of 7.5:1 (3200lbs)... As opposed to a Civic with 160hp of 17.5:1(2800lbs):smile:

Only thing you've got on me is gas milege... Except when Honda's have Vtec... apparently they suck the gas down like a Chevy when in Vtec.

the honda NSX is slow.. it is slow and unrefined..that's why it has been praised as the most predictable neutral handling refined easy to drive at 10/10th's car ever made by the world's most respected auto enthusiasts/experts.. it is also crappily built..which is also why JD powers named it the most reliable CAR, in any category, in a five year study... it is also why the HONDA NSX type S zero runs a 12.7 in the quarter mile weighing in at 2800 lbs... yes.. the NSX is slow and crappy.. you are completely correct in your fantasy world

the NSX sucks.. here's more evidence to support that conclusion.. in the JGTC gt500 series.. the NSX has repeatedly dominated the viper and .. the poor design and drivability of the NSX is the reason why it won over all Calloway Corvette entries in Le Mans in 1995... it's crappy engine is why even though not nearly reaching its full potential...but rather.. limits imposed by the Jap Gentlemen's Agreement, the Type R and Type S zero NSX come with 7/10ths of a second of the quarter mile posted by the 8.0 liter viper.. and are almost on par with the z06 bests of low 12's despite the fact the 3.2 is half the size.. yes.. you are totally correct that the NSX is crap I applaud your profound and brilliant insight.. typical of a mustang driver..

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah....

Methinks you need to Shut the fuck Upeth...:rolleyes: :loser:

a civic si to your truck engine mobile... yes.. the civic si is an exemplary specimen of engineering excellence.. that's why i always mention the civic si 1.6 beast when i make comparisons.. sheer genius

Skyline34GT500... No one gives a shit... :)

We dont really give a fuck about how well the NSX did in the JGTC... We could all pull the GT40 out of our asses and say how it beat the Ferrari in LeMans... not to mention the C5R... But quitefrankly... WE DONT GIVE A FUCK!! Cant you get it through your mind? No one gives a fuck about how much rice a damn jap car shits...

Let me tell it to you slooooowly... Yooooooouuu AAARRrrrrreee IIiiinnn AAAAaaA Caaammaaarrrooooo Fooorrruuummmm...... NOooooo Oooonnneee Giiiiivveeess Twwwwoooo Shhhiiiiiitt Aaaaabbboooouuuttt Hhoooonnndddaaaa, Nniiiiisssaaaannn Orr Tooooyyooottaaaaa.....

Get it? Got it? Good :bloated:

right on dude, get out of this forum. Nobody cares

Originally posted by skyliner34GT500
the honda NSX is slow.. it is slow and unrefined..that's why it has been praised as the most predictable neutral handling refined easy to drive at 10/10th's car ever made by the world's most respected auto enthusiasts/experts.. it is also crappily built..which is also why JD powers named it the most reliable CAR, in any category, in a five year study... it is also why the HONDA NSX type S zero runs a 12.7 in the quarter mile weighing in at 2800 lbs... yes.. the NSX is slow and crappy.. you are completely correct in your fantasy world

Its not nearly as refined as it should be. The designers were trying to create an exotic, and didn't get it fast enough or refined enough, but put a high price tag on regardless.

I never said the build quality is bad, its good, i know that. But it damn well should be for the price tag, and lack of performance for it.

12.7 @ 2800lbs for $75k is it (i honestly don't care for the exact number, i'd NEVER consider the car). The camaro goes 12.9 @ 3100lbs and for what...$25k average (when it was being made).

Its slow when you are paying that much money and stock for stock it will be beaten by a ZO6 (for less $$), and ran with cars half the price of the Z06...oh ya, '03 cobra anyone?

and why the hell are you comparing camaro owners and people with mullets who care about 1/4 mile times. For someone blessed as part of the "cognitive elite":rolleyes: you sure are discriminate. Perhaps u should take a sociology class Mr. Top of the Gene Pool...

and why the hell are you comparing camaro owners and people with mullets who care about 1/4 mile times. For someone blessed as part of the "cognitive elite":rolleyes: you sure are discriminate. Perhaps u should take a sociology class Mr. Top of the Gene Pool...

and you can't add up your parents IQs to get yours. sorry

and when comparing 3.2L to 5.7L, the reason american engineers stick with the v8s (other than HUGE amounts of moddability). But they sound better. When a shitcan pulls up next to me, spouting off its high pitched crap, I tend to :redface:

Originally posted by skyliner34GT500
the NSX sucks.. here's more evidence to support that conclusion.. in the JGTC gt500 series.. the NSX has repeatedly dominated the viper and .. the poor design and drivability of the NSX is the reason why it won over all Calloway Corvette entries in Le Mans in 1995... it's crappy engine is why even though not nearly reaching its full potential...but rather.. limits imposed by the Jap Gentlemen's Agreement, the Type R and Type S zero NSX come with 7/10ths of a second of the quarter mile posted by the 8.0 liter viper.. and are almost on par with the z06 bests of low 12's despite the fact the 3.2 is half the size.. yes.. you are totally correct that the NSX is crap I applaud your profound and brilliant insight.. typical of a mustang driver..

Never said it was poor design or had poor driveability...you are putting words in my mouth to support an arguement...stop it.

Oh ya, all those Le Mans cars are stock off the showroom floor, ya know how that goes.

Oh, so the NSX costs more and goes slower than a viper still, eh? Wait, how much are the Type R and Type S RSX's compared to the viper?

Anyways...woman just called...this isn't important enough to pass up on poon, i'll be back later to show how your arguements are weak.

Later.

yes 12.7 is slow and even though it is the most reliable car according to JD powers. and american company for the record... even though many of the most respected automotive enthusiasts/aficionados have lauded it for its balance even at the limit.. it's for connoisseurs of the fine arts.. definitely not for mustang or camaro lovers... definitely not.. and yes.. you are paying 90 k for the quality, respect, international recognition, performance, and world class engineering reflected by Honda's 6 consecutive championship seasons in F1(the most extreme racing organization in the history of motor sports) an accomplishment not even contemplated by an american auto maker.. despite the fact they have more money.. .. i wouldn't expect a camaro or mustang driver to be able to appreciate that.. of course I'm sure the NSX driver is gonna be lamenting the fact his 90 k car attracts more attractive women in one weekend than your camaro or mustang will pick up in a lifetime

my arguements are weak because a firebird owner said so

haha... so you need a 75,000 dollar car to attract women? That's the best you can come up with? Laaammmmeeee:lol:

the viper.. no ABS.. no traction control.. crappy build quality a JDpowers rating of crappy.... sure a low tech neanderthalmobile is leagues ahead of the NSX poised position of excellence and refinement.. the NSX is a daily driver... yep dodge the pinnacle of class and refinement..

NHTSA Recalls for the impeccably well built dodge viper

1996-00: If used in extensive track type testing or aggressive driving, steering rack mounting brackets can crack. 1996-99: If used in extensive track type testing or aggressive driving, differential mounting brackets could fail. 1997: Inadvertent airbag deployment could occur upon vehicle ignition shut-down. 2000-01: Some of the owner's manuals for these vehicles are missing instructions for properly attaching a child restraint system's tether strap to the tether anchorage

Dates of Manufacture: June 1995 - March 1999

Defect: Certain passenger vehicles used extensively in track types of racing events and subjected to aggressive driving conditions could experience cracks at the welds of the rear differential mounting bracket. The cracks could eventually lead to metal fatigue and dislodging of the differential mounting bracket from the frame of the vehicle. Separation of the differential mounting bracket could result in loss of vehicle control.


dodge.. that's what i call quality.. but i'm sure it's just a fluke.. i mean american cars are known for their build quality..

you get what you pay for ..with the NSX you get JD powers most reliable car period.. end of story.. oh and you also get a car that can be driven daily without serious brain damage from all the chasis vibrations

here's some nice anecdotal evidence.. a review of the indomintable dodge viper..

Head gaskets on the motor went.

Leather interior started to pull apart.

Exhaust system needed replacing.

Transmission went due to a blown seal.

Ball joints got very loose.

After engine was fixed there was consistent over heating problems.

Engine knocked real bad, Dodge refused to do anything about it.

The power window on the driver's side went.

Fuel injectors had problems soon after the head gaskets were fixed.

Alternator got really weak and needed rebuilding.

Chrome on the mag wheels started to peel.

The ride was extremely uncomfortable.
General comments?
This car would of been a super car if the dealer would have just fixed things right and not been so up tight. I'm sure lots of cars have there problems, but they should not have this many at under 10,000 km.

This car had never been abused, it was just a lemon from the start. The 450hp sounds nice, but when you are only getting 10m/gallon you might think of buying a Corvette. I now own a 2001 Corvette Z06 and a 2000 Hummer. I think that the Corvette may not be as fast, but it sure hasn't sat in the shop for more than half of the time I have owned it like the Viper.


NOW THAT's what i call DETROIT IRON qualeetay

that's all the nights entertainment(i like to think of it as enlightenment) that i will provide tonight.. let me leave you rhodes scholars with this something.. someone with a brain bigger than most of your's expressed quite eloquently;

Most big companies have engineers, to be sure, but that doesn't mean they are valued. Think about it: if a big company is losing money, the president will never say "I wish we had engineers like those guys at Toyota who figured out how to make cars that don't break." No, it is always "we need better advertising, better marketing, fancier financing, higher salaries for executives", i.e., "we need more MBAs just like me."

Honda simply has better engineers than most other car companies, which is how they went from zero to moderately huge in just two decades. The Accord and Civic are the benchmarks in their respective categories. A few years after they entered Formula One racing, Honda dominated the sport. The NSX is basically the street car built by the Formula One folks.

The first thing you notice when you get into the NSX is the comfort. This is not a Porsche or a Ferrari. Nothing is weird, there is no penalty for all the extra capability. After ten minutes, the controls feel as natural as on a car you drive every day. Visibility is superb in all directions and the low cowl prevents claustrophobia. Considering that the engine is about a foot from your ear, the car is reasonably quiet; wind noise is unobtrusive (at least up to 100 mph). Set the temperature you'd like and the automatic climate control system delivers it (I've always hated these systems, but the NSX's works).

The second thing you notice is the balance. If you haven't driven a mid-engined car, then you owe it to yourself. Whether it is an old Lotus Europa, a Toyota MR2, or the NSX, they all share a delightfully neutral feel. A big part of it is the low polar moment of inertia. Porsches and Corvettes manage to achieve a balanced weight, more or less, by putting heavy stuff on both ends of the car. However, with all that weight so far from the center of mass, the car ends up with a high polar moment of inertia and will resist twisting. Mid-engined cars keep the weight in the middle and are much easier to guide through twisty sections of road.


to conclude.. the NSX is a drivers car.. with utterly predictable handling, superbly refined build quality, that can be driven comfortably all day long, and of Formula 1 heritage celebrating Honda's 6 straight championship seasons.... the viper on the other hand is crude.. rude, and well... of American standards build quality that says enough

i'm sure american engineers select v8's for their cars, not because they don't have the engineering expertise to make high specific output engines....but because they like the sound.. yep.. race cars are all about sound.. teams tune for sound.. not for power.. once again you enlighten the world with your profound intellectual revelations...everybody knows that engine sound is the most important consideration of top F1 teams

Originally posted by skyliner34GT500
http://www.mustangmods.com/data/341/blah.gif


Great that you love a damn $80k that could get its ass handed to by a car thats in the $25-$35k range... Remember where youre at... Here in AMERICA we care about more performance for its dollar... 1/4mi and just flat out balls... You know? The feeling of 300+hp matched to 350ft/tq? Not everyone has $80k+ to spend for a goddamn car.... So yes we will still keep driving our Mustangs and Camaros.... Even the Z06 vette which would WALK all over the NSX... Since youre into the Magazine Racing and JDPower crap which is all :bs: ... Wasnt it tested that the Z06 handed both the Porsche and the NSX its ass?

So heres a last pic for you... :)

:werd:


Oh yes... NSX...

:gives:

Originally posted by skyliner34GT500
a civic si to your truck engine mobile... yes.. the civic si is an exemplary specimen of engineering excellence.. that's why i always mention the civic si 1.6 beast when i make comparisons.. sheer genius

Yeah, but you do realise my point travels along the same lines as the '02 Acura RSX Type-S 2 liter motor making 200hp. still only 100hp per liter.

The '01 Acura Integra GSR 1.8 liter making 170hp. Uh oh... 94hp per liter.

The '98 Supra Turbo 3 liter making 320hp. 106hp per liter. A very stout motor if I may say so. But take away the turbo and its only 75 hp per liter.

Best for last...

Your prized '02 NSX with a 3.2 Liter V6 making 290hp. 90hp per liter. Do I have to mention it weighs in at 3153lbs? Gets Ok gas milege too, 17/24 mpg. My beloved Z06 gets 19/28 mpg and weighs 3116lbs. Oh lets not forget the Z06's perfect 50/50 weight distribution.

Z06 - A marvel of American lazyness.


Originally posted by skyliner34GT500
sorry i graduated college with a 3.8 GPA and have a demonstrated IQ of 140 placing me in the top 1% of intellect pool.. i hardly think a redneck rustang driving, camaro loving, soppy idiots are gonna "own" me.. although I'm sure IQ means round your parts.. i'd probably do better with a 3.84 rear and mullet to match



I've got a demonstrated of 127... which puts me into that same top 1%...

Trust me, You're not so elite. Either come on out of your magazine racing world, and realise that people buy cars on personal preferance rather than what some article says in a overrated magazine and leave us alone to our 'narrow' minds. Or leave the forum.

Simple as that. We welcome somebody who has a fresh opinion on a subject. But Opinions are like assholes... everybody has one.

Vipers have ABS btw. They started including it in either 00 or 01. Uncomfortable, hot, forces you to pay attention to the road or you'll regret it, no traction control, damn right no stupid traction control, the car isn't for pussies.

How the hell can an NSX do a 12.7 when Camaros and Firebirds beat them stock? Is that time out of the new NSX with the fixed headlights? Has it actually broken 300 hp now?

Honda also got so popular because of the 70's and 80's where American cars were garbage. If the smog laws never happened, Honda would barely have a market in America for automobiles. Most Americans would still be in the mindset that our cars are better. Whether they are or not is irrelevant please don't bring up that point.

educating the ignorant is hard.. what can i say.. the NSX type S zero weighs in at around 2800 lbs runs the quarter in 12.7 and has similar performance to the NSX Type R, of course for some neanderthals that never leave their very limited habitat.. wouldn't realize that even a type S zero or R variation of the NSX exist... so you continue to wallow in your artificially constructed locus of distorted reality believing that all NSX's are 3100 lb behemoths with a 250 hp engine running the quarter in around 14 seconds.... of course i could mention that the supra was engineered to make 500 hp from the factory with minimal mods.. meaning boost control and bigger exhaust.. or i could tell you about the 500 hp NISMO 400 R from the mid nineties.. or the subaru 22b or silvia... but none of these things would make a darned bit of difference to those that relegate themselves as inhabitants of a dark misinformed opinionated yet unsubstantiated ignorant existence.. ..can't change the world.. all i can do is say what i believe and back it up with facts.. and.. 127 is not in the top 1% of the IQ bell curve more like the top 3-4 percent.. anyway.. if you are as smart as you say you are..then some of my comments will hopefully open your eyes.. if not.. well then.. some people will never learn

Originally posted by skyliner34GT500
Im a dumbass and suck Honda/Nissans Dick!!! :licka:

Whats that you say? :eek7:

Listen... For the last time... NO ONE GIVES A FUCK!!! You can bring up fucking cars we will never see here, let alone can afford, want to buy, would want, pay insurance for, want to see parked in our driveway, sit our asses in one, take a piss and shit on one... wait... maybe that one.
Youre comparing apples and oranges my dumbass naive troll... You compare cars that are $20k+, hell even 3x over what we pay for our car... Very brilliant for a guy that supposedly is 1% above his class pool.:rolleyes:
If Car A runs 12.9-13.2 for $24k and Car B runs 12.7 for $70k+... Which do you think one would pick? But oh no... the interior is shitty... ahhh and its made by an american auto-company... so it must suck fat dick!! And also... you say Mustangs and F-bodies suck at the track... hmm... have you ever been to auto-x? I see plenty of them beating up on the ricers. But it will never come from the Land of the Rising Sun... so its a piece of shit... Life must be great when youre shifting through gears while eating sushi/rice and jacking off to hentai, isnt it?
Ill leave you with that... my mullets starting to look messed up... :rolleyes: fucktard.