best luxury SUV

Thanks WakkaWu, Im glad that someone gets my point.

Originally posted by Porsche
I have to say the X5, not only is it a bimmer, the new 4.6is is a recent addition, which now makes IT the most powerful SUV in the world at a tidy 400 HP. Oh Yeah!

400 hp??? try ~280 hp

btw, i think the best suv for the money is the Merc G500

normally, i despise the benz, but this suv is the ULTIMATE, the ULTIMATE, no compromises whatsoever, ultimate off road capability, and ultimate luxury . . . the G VVagon, all i have to say, where is it in this poll?

arguing about x5s and escalades, psshhh . . . G VVagon is all i have to say to u all :flipa: :devil: :finger: :bandit: :bloated: :alien:

I picked the Cadillac Escalade. Most of the others listed in the poll, like the BMW X5 and the Mercedes G500, are more sporty SUVs than luxury. The Navigator would be a close second with it's beautiful interior. But how about Isuzu? Their new SUV at the Philly Auto Show was beautiful. You guys only wanna talk about the big names, some of which aren't even luxurious.

Escalade IMO (humble though that may be) looks like an apartment block on wheels - with similar charisma. Accurate descriptions include it being a 'ludicrous parody of itself' and not forgetting the 'rolling tribute to excessive consumption' cliche

Ummm,yea.Like I said,Escalade has ten times the looks any of your European SUVs do.European style in not just SUVs but all their vehicles look like each other.And unlike your European SUVs,the Escalade is a headturner.Very unique.

As an example personified of what makes Euros generally superior to American cars, may I proffer to you that American interpretation/bastardisation of a quality Euro:

What makes European car superior to American cars?Oh wait,nothing.Please try to back up what you say next time so you don't make yourself look like a fool.And I'd take a Malibu over a Vectra any day.The vectra looks like a Nissan Sentra.WOW!That vectra has a whopping 136HP!!!!Damn...are they street legal?Boy would I hate to have one of those pull beside my car.Make my Caddy look like pathetic.Probably blow the doors of my Caddy.Pfft.


Someone want to tell me what a G VVagon is?Thanks

Originally posted by Thunda Downunda


Escalade IMO (humble though that may be) looks like an apartment block on wheels - with similar charisma. Accurate descriptions include it being a 'ludicrous parody of itself' and not forgetting the 'rolling tribute to excessive consumption' cliche

As an example personified of what makes Euros generally superior to American cars, may I proffer to you that American interpretation/bastardisation of a quality Euro:

Opel Vectra vs Chevrolet Malibu

Thunda, you could not be more on the ball.

to suggest the X5 styling is plain and the Escalade is more of a looker cracks me up. But hey, it goes in keeping with the uninspired, crude and often comical styling we see in American cars

How can you say American cars have no style.They ACTUALLY get NEW body styles every 2-4 years.Your BMWs look the same they did 25 years ago.

WakkaWu, your right. Seems as if american cars get new body styled every 2-4 years. Back to the X5. The BMW X5 has very little luxury. It is more of a SUV than a luxury SUV. Heck they use them X5 to do off road racing. Hmmmm i did say the X5 was more SUV right?

Originally posted by WakkaWu
How can you say American cars have no style.They ACTUALLY get NEW body styles every 2-4 years.Your BMWs look the same they did 25 years ago.

http://eugenebmw.narod.ru/BMW-318-E30.jpg

http://www.cabrionews.de/katalog/bmw/e46/e46.jpg

1) Apart from trademark BMW features, these cars look nothing alike. E21 to E30 was evolution, E30 to E36 revolution. E36 to E46 was evolution and so on... do you want radical designs every two years? what about the new 7-series? Granted its not to everyone's taste but did that look like the 70's 7 series, as you are suggesting? No.

2) The "new" american bodystyles dont seem to help. The high majority of designs are uninspired and drab, and your Camaros/Firebirds all that muscle stuff looks the same as it did a couple decades ago, i.e. ugly. Not only that, they all look alike. I dont know which one it is, i think Firebird, the one with the "nostrils"... how can any country look at that car and say "yeah, we're proud to be making this"?

Camaro and Firebird don't look alike.

1) Apart from trademark BMW features, these cars look nothing alike. E21 to E30 was evolution, E30 to E36 revolution. E36 to E46 was evolution and so on... do you want radical designs every two years? what about the new 7-series? Granted its not to everyone's taste but did that look like the 70's 7 series, as you are suggesting? No.

The bodies do look the same.Put a 1980 7 Series in front of a 2003 7 Series and look at them both from the side,their bodies look exactly the same.

2) The "new" american bodystyles dont seem to help. The high majority of designs are uninspired and drab, and your Camaros/Firebirds all that muscle stuff looks the same as it did a couple decades ago, i.e. ugly. Not only that, they all look alike. I dont know which one it is, i think Firebird, the one with the "nostrils"... how can any country look at that car and say "yeah, we're proud to be making this"?

How can you say the Firebirds and Camaros look alike?And worst,ugly?They were the best looking cars of their time.And looked nothing alike.Almost all European cars of the 60s and 70s looked like damn pacers...in other words,hideously ugly.Just disgusting little match box cars.And Europe was proud to be making those?The HOODSCOOPS just made the Firebirds look so awsome.They had mean,get the f*ck out of my way look.Just awsome looking cars.

Thank you WakkaWu, i couldn't have said it better. :)

:)

Originally posted by WakkaWu


How can you say the Firebirds and Camaros look alike?And worst,ugly?They were the best looking cars of their time.And looked nothing alike.Almost all European cars of the 60s and 70s looked like damn pacers...in other words,hideously ugly.Just disgusting little match box cars.And Europe was proud to be making those?The HOODSCOOPS just made the Firebirds look so awsome.They had mean,get the f*ck out of my way look.Just awsome looking cars.

Well said. While I didn't like the looks of the firebird - it sure did stand out in a crowd.













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Originally posted by WakkaWu


What makes European car superior to American cars?Oh wait,nothing.Please try to back up what you say next time so you don't make yourself look like a fool.And I'd take a Malibu over a Vectra any day.The vectra looks like a Nissan Sentra.WOW!That vectra has a whopping 136HP!!!!Damn...are they street legal?Boy would I hate to have one of those pull beside my car.Make my Caddy look like pathetic.Probably blow the doors of my Caddy.Pfft.


bwahahahahahahahahahahah American ignorance at it's best- firstly The Vectra is 10 times superior to the Malibu- the Malibu is so fucking bland it aint funny- the Vectra actually has a few hints of character- I could mistake a Malibu for a Bus Stop- thats how boring it is- not to mention the Automatic shitfer would be enough to give you Carpel Tunnel :rolleyes: The Vectra is also a far better driving and riding car than the Malibu- who cares if it don't have a massive engine- fuel costs its ass off in this part of the world :rolleyes: The new 3.2GSi Vectra would blow the doors of your FWD luxo-barge


Secondly the Escalade is crap It looks like crap- It suffers the typical issue facing every single American car - it looks boring- It looks like an apartment block- I doubt it's offroad ability- as it's sole purpose is for Southside gangsters to chuck 27 Inch chromies on and cruise up and down the waterfront playing crap-ass hip-hop music *disclaimer *This probably wasn't the sole purpose- But thats how it turned out *disclaimer*

The X5 rides better than ANY American car yet alone SUV- It is smooth and drives like a 5-series (Which is awesome) :D It also has levels of comfort almost unheard of in any car :)

Also the Camaro and Firebird simply don't hold up in an aesthetics contest if you park it next to a FIAT Coupe or Peugeot 4O6 Coupe- yet alone the 3-series Coupe or CLK. A Firebird only looks good if your mullet is getting in your eyes after a night on the piss with Budweisner :rolleyes:

Also BMW's have extrememly crisp lines and look like a luxury car should- and the thing about the 80's 7-series front end on a 2003 7 series is the biggest load of bullshit I've ever heard :spit:


I won't vote on any poll that don't include the Porsche Cayenne- by far the best SUV in every respect

WakkaWu :spit: You don't know what you're writing. Jimmy said well.

A Vectra is much better than your poor Malibu, and the Vectra is although far to be as good as a Laguna, a C-Class or a Lybra for example.
American cars are enormous cars, and Europeans are smaller indeed, that's not a problem. A Camaro doesn't look better than Golf, and a Golf is well made, not the Camaro. And of course, a BMW is better than many American cars.
And why is there this difference of size ? Because ou are not expecting performances because of the way you're drinving (very slow) and of your big rods. In Europe, we have smaller roads and towns. Plus, the gas is 3times as expensive as in the USA...

Another thing : 136hp on the Vectra, ok but does the Malibu better ? American hp are very generous. I can give you a precise example : a 406 Coupé 2.0 138hp is faster than a Camaro V6 200hp... for the same size and weigh ! ... and the camaro handles nothing.

Jimmy, you make some great points, and I agree on all of them. There were three SUVs that I feel should have been on the list that weren't, they are:

Mercedes G Wagen
Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
Porsche Cayenne

My problem with most of the selections on the poll is that they have little to no off road capabilities. That is what I base my decision on. That is why I said the Grand Cherokee is the best pick. It has the best off road capabilities while having a very nice rice on road as well. I don't care what anyone says, it is a luxury SUV and just as much luxury as some of the domestic offerings on the poll, while not quite as upscale as some of the others. I just don't see how these three were left off the list and are the top three IMO. If you don't agree, well, I guess that is just too bad isn't it?

Originally posted by Polygon
Jimmy, you make some great points, and I agree on all of them. There were three SUVs that I feel should have been on the list that weren't, they are:

Mercedes G Wagen
Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
Porsche Cayenne

My problem with most of the selections on the poll is that they have little to no off road capabilities. That is what I base my decision on. That is why I said the Grand Cherokee is the best pick. It has the best off road capabilities while having a very nice rice on road as well. I don't care what anyone says, it is a luxury SUV and just as much luxury as some of the domestic offerings on the poll, while not quite as upscale as some of the others. I just don't see how these three were left off the list and are the top three IMO. If you don't agree, well, I guess that is just too bad isn't it?


agreed The three off-roaders you named are the best off-roaders in the business (The Range Rover is also a winner off-road) I myself used to own a 280GE Mercedes and I can tell you that there was NOTHING that baby couldn't tackle. The Grand Cherokee and Range Rover were both designed by speacialist off-road companies- hence they are excellent off-roaders and Porsche put a ton of thought into my favourite SUV :D

bwahahahahahahahahahahah American ignorance at it's best- firstly The Vectra is 10 times superior to the Malibu- the Malibu is so fucking bland it aint funny- the Vectra actually has a few hints of character- I could mistake a Malibu for a Bus Stop- thats how boring it is- not to mention the Automatic shitfer would be enough to give you Carpel Tunnel The Vectra is also a far better driving and riding car than the Malibu- who cares if it don't have a massive engine- fuel costs its ass off in this part of the world The new 3.2GSi Vectra would blow the doors of your FWD luxo-barge

Prove everthing you said there.Were is your proof that a Vectra is ten-times more superior?COMEON MAN,WHY THE FUCK DO YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH IF YOU CAN'T BACK IT UP?Like I said,all your European cars look the same.American cars have lines of character and EVERY GM car looks different from the other.Have you ever driven a Malibu?They arent the most boring cars to drive.And ALL econo boxes have a great ride...when there new.And were in fucks name did I mention anything about a massive engine?Do you hate America or something?Sure sounds like it.I would just love to see your 3.2GSi blow the doors of a Lincoln LS or a Cadillac CTS.

Secondly the Escalade is crap It looks like crap- It suffers the typical issue facing every single American car - it looks boring- It looks like an apartment block- I doubt it's offroad ability- as it's sole purpose is for Southside gangsters to chuck 27 Inch chromies on and cruise up and down the waterfront playing crap-ass hip-hop music *disclaimer *This probably wasn't the sole purpose- But thats how it turned out *disclaimer*

Cadillac Escalade is FAR better looking than that of ANY European SUV.As I said in another post,Escalade is actually different and doesnt look like everything else.How the fuck does the Escalade look boring?And it wasnt made for off-roading,ofcourse your not smart enough to realize that because you know not a thing about the vehicle.And if its so damn ugly,then why does it sell like crazy in the U.S.And whats wrong with 27in chromes and sound systems?Just makes it that much better.You just have no taste in cars.Your Vectra is good enough for you.

The X5 rides better than ANY American car yet alone SUV- It is smooth and drives like a 5-series (Which is awesome) It also has levels of comfort almost unheard of in any car

Lets not be silly now.I have rented an X5 and based on my experience with it,it rode like a damn Jeep Willys.In other words,like absolute shit!Your just saying that because its your opinion,you live in Europe and for some strange reason love the place,and you hate American cars because you know nothing about them and are mesmorized and too fixated that Eurpean cars are just the altimate greatest.Ive met people like you.Back to the subject,the X5 rides nothing like the 5-series.Not even close.The Escalade rides soo much better,its like riding on air.The seat comfort wasnt bad in the X5,but wasnt better than the Escalde.Id say there close to the same.

Also the Camaro and Firebird simply don't hold up in an aesthetics contest if you park it next to a FIAT Coupe or Peugeot 4O6 Coupe- yet alone the 3-series Coupe or CLK. A Firebird only looks good if your mullet is getting in your eyes after a night on the piss with Budweisner

Dude,were being stupid again,the Firebirds and Camaros look so awsome,Theres no comparison between the look of those two cars and the Fiat or Peugot.Admit it Jimmy,you like the looks of the Firebird and Camaro.

Also BMW's have extrememly crisp lines and look like a luxury car should- and the thing about the 80's 7-series front end on a 2003 7 series is the biggest load of bullshit I've ever heard

I strongly disagree,BMWs look more sports than luxury car.Cadillac,Lincoln and MErcedes(etc.) have more of the classy luxury look.And who said anything about the front of the BMWs?What I said was look a the bodys,like from the side.They look exactly the same.



Ans Stefanel:Another thing : 136hp on the Vectra, ok but does the Malibu better ? American hp are very generous. I can give you a precise example : a 406 Coupé 2.0 138hp is faster than a Camaro V6 200hp... for the same size and weigh ! ... and the camaro handles nothing.

Do you have proof that it can beat a Camaro V6?And yes the Malibu does do better with 170HP.

A Vectra is much better than your poor Malibu, and the Vectra is although far to be as good as a Laguna, a C-Class or a Lybra for example.

Show proof that its better than the Malibu,I seriously dount its as good as a C-Class.

American cars are enormous cars, and Europeans are smaller indeed, that's not a problem. A Camaro doesn't look better than Golf, and a Golf is well made, not the Camaro. And of course, a BMW is better than many American cars.

No,not all off them.Europe has their huge cars too.It all depends on what you like.If you think a Golf looks better than Camaro then ok.Thats your opinion on the looks of the car and I respect you.Im not going to critisize you on you taste like Jumster did me.But me,I have different taste,I like the Camaros looks more.But I need some proof that they are better built.Camaros,as do all GMs last a very long time if you take car of them,as would all cars.And a BMW is made better than any American or European econo cars.Econo boxes arent made to last,there made to help the environment.But American luxury,I disagree.From my expirience with all my Cadillacs,I'd have to say that they last longer and have less problems than BMWs.

. I just don't see how these three were left off the list and are the top three IMO

Jeep Cherokee Limited is one of the top three SUVs out there?Please.I don't see them as luxuric but o well.You'll face the facts some day.

why the hostility?

if you want a nice luxo cruiser that has endless off road capability, and more room than your average apartment, get a humvee.

but back to the question...

why the hostility? damn boys. we need a timeout or something...

Ask Jimster.Look at the way he replied to me.

I just want to add a little bit about the Porsche Cayenne. It made an appearance at the 2003 Philly Auto Show that I was at. It is truly a beautiful "SUV". I put SUV in quotations because their was limited ground clearance and it was almost too sporty to be called an SUV. However it was a beautiful vehicle inside and out. The interior was as nice as any regular Porsche car, and it looks different from anything out there. It is a great vehicle and I think it will sell good for Porsche. :flash:

WakkaWu-

FIRSTLY- the Malibu IS the most boring car on the road it looks like a damn brick and only a few would argue. Secondly the Vectra is a far more sound car in it's driving than the Malibu any fool will tell you that- Also the Malibu has a useless V6 Engine that makes you wonder where all the power went- The Vectra has an impressive line of engines from it's 1.7 Diesel to its 2.5 V6. Also lets not forget just how much heavier the Malibu is than the Vectra. European cars look the same do they??? Yes a Rover 75 looks A LOT like a Ferrari 360 Modena :rolleyes:

You clearly don't know what a GSi is so pipe down. The fact is that Sevilles and LS' are overwieght Luxo-barges designed for retired Navy colnels and the like- Not sporty driving- the Vectra GSi is a sporting Sedan- they even compete in different classes.

If you like big boxy and boring off-roaders then you can- but that doesn't mean it looks better than the X5- you are still the only one who thinks it does. the 27 inch chromies simply make it more hideous- they simply border on vulgarity. And boring is what sells in the US- try selling it in Europe, or Japan or Australia/NZ- IT wouldn't stand a chance- it is simply too boring. The fact that I can't name one decent looking American car (Except for Jeep/Chrysler/Dodge- who run circles around GM product in the first place- but lose out in the sales race) and the fact that the American Accord is by far the most boring in the world says a lot about the American love of boring cars don't it? *disclaimer* I am not saying if it is made in America it is crap- however a sad majority of cars from GM/Fords American offices are crap- Especially compared to European/Australaian counterparts- Chryslers cars are considerably better- unfortunatley they don't seem to sell :( *disclaimer

Clearly there was something wrong with your X5 as it is one helluva smooth riding mother that soaks up the pot-holes but doesn't lose out dynamically- BMW Are the engineers choice- hence the X5 has engineering pedigree. Needless to say it is becoming clear you haven't driven an X5- because every motoring journo that I know of has praised it's ride.

The firebird looks allright the Camaro is butt-ugly.

The NEW Vectra is as good as the C-class- if you ant to drive the new Vectra I suggest the new Saab 9-3- same Chassis- but different engines. And the Saab 9-3 beat the X-Type, 3-series and (I think) C class in a Top Gear comparision in the November 2002 issue.

BMW combines a look of sports and Luxury- hence it's popularity.


Cadillacs do not last longer than BMW's- I have had a look over a Seville that was going Ultra cheap at a car-supermarket and it is obvious the materials are of far lower quality than BMW- the Northstar is also been known for it's problems- yet BMW Top satisfaction surveys in Europe constantly (I wonder why that is) didn't you learn from the lashing boingo gave you that Cadillacs have reliability issues?


Now if you continue flaming Europeans/Europe and not listening to/respecting other peoples opninions you will be banned again- remember Copperhed210 you are on strict watch

ripping someone a new one right back isn't best way to make up for it...

i'm sure we're all mature enough here to show people the truth.

like, if you replied with an insightful answer instead of the bullshit thats getting spewed back and forth... we'd all be alot smarter.

and it's not just your bullshit.

however... it's pretty fucking lame. on everyone's part.

Calm down.

Both the Europeans outlook on it and WakkaWu's outlook on it are OPINIONS. Everyone is entitled to their own, and that should be respected. If you're going to say either is better, back it up with documented facts. Otherwise, stop saying either is a better car than the other, just say you happen to like either car better.

Originally posted by Heep
Calm down.

Both the Europeans outlook on it and WakkaWu's outlook on it are OPINIONS. Everyone is entitled to their own, and that should be respected. If you're going to say either is better, back it up with documented facts. Otherwise, stop saying either is a better car than the other, just say you happen to like either car better.


Thanks Mark- an excellent point- however sometimes there is no getting through to WakkaWu- this is one of those situations where we are comparing a car to something that is known to be superior (Malibu vs Vectra) maybe it is because the Malibu is now hopelessly outdated? Maybe it is just the fact that the Vectra was designed for sporting-minded European drivers.


The unfrotunate thing about CopperHed/WakkaWu is that he doesn't understand the meaning of opinion- he won't accept that people think different to him- so he feels the need to start swearing and flaming- very unfortunate.

FIRSTLY- the Malibu IS the most boring car on the road it looks like a damn brick and only a few would argue. Secondly the Vectra is a far more sound car in it's driving than the Malibu any fool will tell you that- Also the Malibu has a useless V6 Engine that makes you wonder where all the power went- The Vectra has an impressive line of engines from it's 1.7 Diesel to its 2.5 V6. Also lets not forget just how much heavier the Malibu is than the Vectra. European cars look the same do they??? Yes a Rover 75 looks A LOT like a Ferrari 360 Modena

I disagree.I happen to somewhat like the looks of the Malibu.Depends on your taste of the car.Now I know you have never driven a Malibu.I have and its not too bad.Yep,you got it,the Malibu is a damn army tank.And I forgot to exclude Ferrari and Lamborghini.There great looking cars and look nothing like the rest of the European cars.But with that exception,they do all look the same.You make a fool of yourself.You knew exactly what I meant when I said they all look alike.Cars and cars,SUVs and SUVs.

You clearly don't know what a GSi is so pipe down. The fact is that Sevilles and LS' are overwieght Luxo-barges designed for retired Navy colnels- the Vectra GSi is a sporting Sedan

The Sevilles and LS's will also smoke and last 10 years longer than the GSi.The Sevilles and LS's are sportiness and performance put into a luxury car.And as most luxury cars are designed for old people who want options and a nice ride and everything else a luxury car comes with,the Seville and LS are designed for anyone who has a lisence.

If you like big boxy and boring off-roaders then you can- but that doesn't mean it looks better than the X5- you are still the only one who thinks it does. the 27 inch chromies simply make it more hideous- they simply border on vulgarity. And boring is what sells in the US- try selling it in Europe, or Japan or Australia/NZ- IT wouldn't stand a chance- it is simply too boring. The fact that I can't name one decent looking American car (Except for Jeep/Chrysler/Dodge- who run circles around GM product in the first place- but lose out in the sales race) and the fact that the American Accord is by far the most boring in the world says a lot about the American love of boring cars don't it? *disclaimer* I am not saying if it is made in America it is crap- however a sad majority of cars from GM/Fords American offices are crap- Especially compared to European/Australaian counterparts- Chryslers cars are considerably better- unfortunatley they don't seem to sell *disclaimer

How is it boxy.What you call boxy are lines of character.Im the only one who thinks it looks better than the X5?Well hell,you must have taken that 10 minutes after I posted to ask everyone on the boards that question right?Infact,I think I'll start a new thread so everyone can vote.We'll see if Im the only one who thinks so.
The 27-in chromes make it look awsome by the way.How is it boring?Its not.Infact,you and your crew of morons are the only ones who think this.Jeep,Chrysler and Dodge run circles around GM then how would the lose in the sales race.That must be a joke.I know a man of your great intelligence wouldnt be serious on that one.
How is the American Accord any different from the Japan Accord.Hmm,both made by Honda.Accord and Accord,names sound the same so they quite possibly could be the same cars.And whats wrong with you?Why do you have a great dislike of the American people?If we love boring cars,then why are we driving fun cars like Grand Am GTs and Firebirds.Very fun cars to drive.Ofcourse you have never been behind the wheel of one so you wouldnt know.If GMs are such crap then why are they the largest car manufacturer in the world?They are better cars then most European and Austrailian cars of their class.I dont care what you say because you dont know jack shit about GM obviously or you wouldnt make such ignorants comments.Ford,I can understand.And GMs are by far better cars then Chrylers.The newer Chrysler tend to have many tranny problems.

Clearly there was something wrong with your X5 as it is one helluva smooth riding mother that soaks up the pot-holes but doesn't lose out dynamically- BMW Are the engineers choice- hence the X5 has engineering pedigree. Needless to say it is becoming clear you haven't driven an X5.

Now out of all the X5s in the rental service,mine just happened to ride NOT AS WELL as an Escalade?Nah.Needless to say it is becomeing clear YOU have never driven an Escalade because they do ride better than and X5.I have driven an X5 before to.

The NEW Vectra is as good as the C-class- if you ant to drive the new Vectra I suggest the new Saab 9-3- same Chassis- but different engines. And the Saab 9-3 beat the X-Type, 3-series and (I think) C class in a Top Gear comparision in the November 2002 issue.

How would it beat a Jaguar or Mercedes?

Cadillacs do not last longer than BMW's- I have had a look over a Seville that was going Ultra cheap at a car-supermarket and it is obvious the materials are of far lower quality than BMW- the Northstar is also been known for it's problems- yet BMW Top satisfaction surveys in Europe constantly (I wonder why that is) idn't you learn from the lashing boingo gave you?

Sorry but I dont remember any lashing.Cadillacs do last longer than BMWs.Until I see a BMW go 400,000 miles with no problems(as my fathers is approaching) then I may have second thoughts.Just because Cadillacs don't keep their value price like BMWs doesnt mean that BMWs last longer.How do you know that the material are of lower qualities?My fathers Caddy is approaching 400K without any problems.Now you tell me whos materials are cheaper.Where did you come up with the idea that the Northstars are known for their problems.There not known for any problems.Infact I have heard about many problems that BMWs have.

Now if you continue flaming Europeans/Europe and not listening to/respecting other peoples opninions you will be banned again- remember Copperhed210 you are on strict watch

Hey Jim,you started all this flaming.I am respecting peoples opinions.Your the one who seems to have the problem with that.And I told you this before,whats stopping me from coming back if i am banned?

I have driven a Malibu- I rented one when I was in the states in 1999- so there- I never got what you meant. But does a Peugeot 2O6 look like a Punto which in turn looks like a Rover 25 nope- I thought not. :rolleyes:


You have not driven a GSi- please reserve your opinions for when you have- and yes quality gremlins did plague the previous Vectras- however now that the new Ford Mondeo has raised the bars the Vectra quality is bound to improve- wouldn't you say?

How is the American Accord different from the Japanese- firstly the springs are a lot softer- which has killed the driving experience- the car is also a lot bigger- which combined with the soft springs makes it very clumsy- The Japanese model has a much firmer ride- and a great chassis and suspension set-up which makes it a poor mans IS200 in terms of a good drive. I have driven the Japanese, American AND European Accord- the American one is by far the worst.


I don't dislike American people- Stereotyping is one thing I don't so- I dislike what you say- because you are just one of those domestic drivers who think that the only good things out there are domestics- which of course is not true- any moron will tell you that.

A Grand Am is a reasonable driving car I'll admit it- but compared to the Alfa Romeo 156???? Sorry the 156 has it beat- an opinion definitley- but something that I stand by.


GM are making big front-wheel drive cars with Big V8 donk- of course I will critisize them- compare an Impala to a Holden Commodore- the Commodore not only has Gen III power and Holdens weel-worked version of the 3.8 Buick V6- but also RWD and bold handsome looks- If you are gonig to try and tell me an Implala has a Commodore beat then you will have to wonder what one is smoking. Maybe Chryslers do have tranny problems- but they are far more Euro-focussed than any Ford/GM hence why I like them- Chrysler also win the styling wars hands down.


I haven't driven an Escalade- but since you are the only person I can think of who has rated it better than the X5- I'm not going to take your word for it.

How about the thread where you talk about Why do people say Cadillac build thier cars so badly? thread in the Cadillac forum- boingo fired back at you with cold hard facts about how Cadillacs languished at the bottowm third of reliability surveys. Care to link me to these problems or give me an outline of them???? 10 Euros says you can't.


As for your warning- you are getting your points across by making wild assumptions, flaming peoples nationality for no reason and you are beginning to piss people off, critisizing a certain viechle is allright if you can dish facts. However personal flaming and flaming someone becasue of where they live is not accepted- you are lucky you weren't banned when you re-registered- so don't push your luck

I put SUV in quotations because their was limited ground clearance and it was almost too sporty to be called an SUV. However it was a beautiful vehicle inside and out. The interior was as nice as any regular Porsche car, and it looks different from anything out there. It is a great vehicle and I think it will sell good for Porsche

Too sporty? looks fine to me. In my opinion i think Porsche should have stuck with making their sports cars. Yeah they will probably sell well but not my tast of luxury.

The unfrotunate thing about CopperHed/WakkaWu is that he doesn't understand the meaning of opinion- he won't accept that people think different to him- so he feels the need to start swearing and flaming- very unfortunate.

Jimster... that was a low blow at what you said about WakkaWu, that was just his opinion, my opinions believe it or not go with his.

I don't dislike American people- Stereotyping is one thing I don't so- I dislike what you say- because you are just one of those domestic drivers who think that the only good things out there are domestics- which of course is not true- any moron will tell you that.

I don't think domestics are the best out there.But when it comes time to state facts,thats what I do.

GM are making big front-wheel drive cars with Big V8 donk- of course I will critisize them- compare an Impala to a Holden Commodore- the Commodore not only has Gen III power and Holdens weel-worked version of the 3.8 Buick V6- but also RWD and bold handsome looks- If you are gonig to try and tell me an Implala has a Commodore beat then you will have to wonder what one is smoking. Maybe Chryslers do have tranny problems- but they are far more Euro-focussed than any Ford/GM hence why I like them- Chrysler also win the styling wars hands down.

So,Ford has big front wheel drive car and so does Chrylers and some Euro makers.Is that some terrible bad thing?In MY opinion,the Commodore isnt too hott in looks.And I dont know too much about them.But my grandparents have a 2003 Impala LS and I like that a lot.Its got loads of power too so Id rather have the Impala.Chrysler would win styling wars in your opinion.I think GMs are far better looking though.But Im not saying Chryslers arent nice either.Because they are.

I haven't driven an Escalade- but since you are the only person I can think of who has rated it better than the X5- I'm not going to take your word for it.

You dont have to take my word for anything.But because I have rented both,I know that the Escalade has a better ride.

How about the thread where you talk about Why do people say Cadillac build thier cars so badly? thread in the Cadillac forum- boingo fired back at you with cold hard facts about how Cadillacs languished at the bottowm third of reliability surveys. Care to link me to these problems or give me an outline of them???? 10 Euros says you can't.

He got those of Edmunds.com.Which I have come to realize that its crap.I will refuse to believe they are unriliable because of my experience with Caddys.I have owned 9 of them.All hit above 300K miles without problems.My dads is approaching 400Kmiles without any problems."Care to link me to these problems or give me an outline of them????"What are you talking about in that sentance?About my statement about BMWs having problems?OK

Excessive vibration.
Lots of X5s appear vibrate a lot more than it seems should be normal for a vehicle, especially when stopped with auto transmission in drive and foot on brake. There are many threads about this. Someone said the fix for the stalling increasing the idle speed and therefore causes a lot more vibration. It isn't clear to me right now which engines and transmissions this is limited to or whether it affects all combinations, but some people don't seem to have the problem. It may be limited to automatics.

Very noisy brakes.
Many X5s (and a few other BMWs it seems) have extremely noisy brakes that some people complain sound like old truck brakes. Dealers often won't fix these because they are within spec and don't affect braking performance.

Excessive wind noise.
The sunroof and the front doors seemed to be particular culprits, but also possibly the front windshield. At least some X5s used to come with a part missing from the sunroof and installing the missing part cut down the noise there. The major issue with the doors seems to be not having them aligned with the body tightly enough, but the dealer or a body shop can often adjust them. Should be easy to ride in 2 or 3 different X5s on the same stretch of highway and compare before buying one.

Excessive noise from misc. rattles, squeaks, and creaks.
There are a lot of complaints about rattles, squeaks, and other misc. noises in the X5. It's a good idea to take any car you might purchase for a long test drive where you listen very carefully (with the radio off and no salesperson trying to talk to you) to the noises the vehicle makes.

Uneven space between rear bumper and vehicle.
Some people say that their X5 has too uneven of a space between the rear bumper and the back of the vehicle, or at least too much for their tastes given how much money they spent on the vehicle. Should be easy to check to before buying to see if it is noticable to you.

Well,there you go.

As for your warning- you are getting your points across by making wild assumptions, flaming peoples nationality for no reason and you are beginning to piss people off, critisizing a certain viechle is allright if you can dish facts. However personal flaming and flaming someone becasue of where they live is not accepted- you are lucky you weren't banned when you re-registered- so don't push your luck

I didnt flame anybodys nationality.Infact you did.Might I recall..."Buawhahahaha...American ignorance at its best."If I am piising people of besides you,have them send me a private message,so I have proof that your not just saying this.

The unfrotunate thing about CopperHed/WakkaWu is that he doesn't understand the meaning of opinion- he won't accept that people think different to him- so he feels the need to start swearing and flaming- very unfortunate.

How am I not accepting peoples opinions?All this sounds like what you do and your just turning it around on me.I accept and respect EVERYONES opinions.And another thing YOU started,swearing.
Such as...
bwahahahahahahahahahahah American ignorance at it's best- firstly The Vectra is 10 times superior to the Malibu- the Malibu is so fucking bland it aint funny- the Vectra actually has a few hints of character- I could mistake a Malibu for a Bus Stop- thats how boring it is- not to mention the Automatic shitfer would be enough to give you Carpel Tunnel

There you go.Flaming another countrys make which you started.Swearing which you started.And flaming my nationality for no reason.I thinks its about time you bann yourself.

Firstly I never attacked America in my statement I was just saying tha is is something that comes typically with many an American- I'm not saying all Americans are ignorant- in fact there are some great Americans on this board- in fact most of them are all great- so of course I can't say that all Americans are ignorant- but when people make statements like yours I can't help but cry ignorance. If you were offended I apoligise.


I think we have come to the conclusion looks are an opinion- if you want to like boring cars- it's your god-given right to. However if the Impala has loads of power explain the 17.1 second 1/4 mile times that a very reliable source (fellow AFer Rich) gave me for the top end model. Compare that to the much better Impala SS of 1996- with RWD that did passes in the 15 second bracket.

Firstly Boingo is a female- and as both her and me told you- if you maintain a car and treat it right it will last you forever- treat any car- whether it be a BMW, Cadillac or Yugo crappy then it will return the favour. None of these gremlins affected my dads 330i Touring and numerous other friends BMW's. However since the X5 is built in the US of A- It could have something to do with German vs. American quality control.

Also I doubt I ever swore at you I don't resort to those lows- And I never flame ANYBODY because of where they are from. You just showed to me you were ignorant- You proved that to me with your little outbursts as copperhed210.

This thread has turned to shit- if you have any further problems contact me by PM- thread closed (Feel free to start a new SUV comparo)