would u consider this a muscle car?

http://www.skylinegtr.com/n_images/skyline_history/4th.jpg



Well? would ya?

NO . :iceslolan

Why not?

An old Ken & Mary 4door Skyline? Nope, not a muscle car.

Now, the Ken & Mary generation GTR Skyline, with that 250-300bhp (the factory never was too clear as to which end of that scale the S20 six was at) engine and fiberglass hood. That could be a different story.

its a muscle car in my book just not an american one...skylines stright dominat the track

i would say its not a muscle car is a v8 of any sort with more then 300 ci but only 250 and up horses having only the ability to run a strait line but still be out ran by a japanese 4 cylinder.

Muscle cars have torque. You can't get that from a 4 cyl. Even if you have forced induction the power band will not be the same. A lot of lesser muscle cars only ran in the 15s, but they could smoke the tires a lot better than any modern 15 second car. I don't think that ugly pos is a muscle car just because it is fast, it is a completely different breed of car. That thing makes the 61 Plymouths look good.

Muscle cars have torque. You can't get that from a 4 cyl. Even if you have forced induction the power band will not be the same. A lot of lesser muscle cars only ran in the 15s, but they could smoke the tires a lot better than any modern 15 second car. I don't think that ugly pos is a muscle car just because it is fast, it is a completely different breed of car. That thing makes the 61 Plymouths look good.


Tire smoking ok whatever wont even comment on that. a 4 cylinder not producing torque, im not even going to comment on that either. but i will say this, what is the point of all that torque when you arnt going anywhere, when you are being out ran by a 4 cylinder with half the torque.

dodge srt-4 2.4 liters 250 lbs foot of torque spinning the front wheels. if tires smoking impresses you then this car will impress.

I think its a great looking car. but japanese cars appeal to me even old school.

[QUOTE=mikegee] what is the point of all that torque when you arnt going anywhere, when you are being out ran by a 4 cylinder with half the torque. QUOTE]

Because its a lot more fun to drive a car with an engine that responds the instant you step on the pedal not when the engine reaches its power band. I've driven both types of cars and they are both fun, but I prefer the muscle car. No need to get bent out of shape. Besides with a little suspension work a 15 sec muscle car will be a 14 second car. Muscle cars were built to be affordable. Try getting a WRX up to STI hp without changing the motor or a bunch of parts. I would rather have a great engine and an ok suspension than vice versa. Its a lot easier to upgrade the suspension and brakes than the motor.

Dollar for dollar the V8 car is always the better drag strip performer.

And the SRT-4 gimme a break, as long as its FWD its just a sheep in wolfs clothing.

[QUOTE=mikegee] what is the point of all that torque when you arnt going anywhere, when you are being out ran by a 4 cylinder with half the torque. QUOTE]

Because its a lot more fun to drive a car with an engine that responds the instant you step on the pedal not when the engine reaches its power band. I've driven both types of cars and they are both fun, but I prefer the muscle car. No need to get bent out of shape. Besides with a little suspension work a 15 sec muscle car will be a 14 second car. Muscle cars were built to be affordable. Try getting a WRX up to STI hp without changing the motor or a bunch of parts. I would rather have a great engine and an ok suspension than vice versa. Its a lot easier to upgrade the suspension and brakes than the motor.

Dollar for dollar the V8 car is always the better drag strip performer.

And the SRT-4 gimme a break, as long as its FWD its just a sheep in wolfs clothing.


call it what ya want, you like what ya like, and i like what i like. id rather have the awsome suspension of the mazda speed protege' with 130 to the front wheels. as for draging dont like it. i perfer drifting and autocross oh and even rally. muscle cars affordable, the only affordable ones are the crappy one like the mustang gt which losses a load of hp through its drivetrain.

[QUOTE=mikegee] what is the point of all that torque when you arnt going anywhere, when you are being out ran by a 4 cylinder with half the torque. QUOTE]

Because its a lot more fun to drive a car with an engine that responds the instant you step on the pedal not when the engine reaches its power band. I've driven both types of cars and they are both fun, but I prefer the muscle car. No need to get bent out of shape. Besides with a little suspension work a 15 sec muscle car will be a 14 second car. Muscle cars were built to be affordable. Try getting a WRX up to STI hp without changing the motor or a bunch of parts. I would rather have a great engine and an ok suspension than vice versa. Its a lot easier to upgrade the suspension and brakes than the motor.

Dollar for dollar the V8 car is always the better drag strip performer.

And the SRT-4 gimme a break, as long as its FWD its just a sheep in wolfs clothing.



then i guess you dont even know that fwd dragsters has made it into the 7s and a 6 cylinder toyota has made it into the 6s.

[QUOTE=mikegee] what is the point of all that torque when you arnt going anywhere, when you are being out ran by a 4 cylinder with half the torque. QUOTE]

Because its a lot more fun to drive a car with an engine that responds the instant you step on the pedal not when the engine reaches its power band. I've driven both types of cars and they are both fun, but I prefer the muscle car. No need to get bent out of shape. Besides with a little suspension work a 15 sec muscle car will be a 14 second car. Muscle cars were built to be affordable. Try getting a WRX up to STI hp without changing the motor or a bunch of parts. I would rather have a great engine and an ok suspension than vice versa. Its a lot easier to upgrade the suspension and brakes than the motor.

Dollar for dollar the V8 car is always the better drag strip performer.

And the SRT-4 gimme a break, as long as its FWD its just a sheep in wolfs clothing.


my front wheel drive stock 4 cylinder will run a high 15 right after an oil change.

Gentlemen, I don't think any of us are discounting the potential speed or track times of any car no matter how many cylinders the engine has, a 4 cylinder can be very fast where as a V8 can be gutless. But to remain on topic this website has a very good definition that is commonly used and accepted by most.

http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/general/musclecars-definition.shtml

Gentlemen, I don't think any of us are discounting the potential speed or track times of any car no matter how many cylinders the engine has, a 4 cylinder can be very fast where as a V8 can be gutless. But to remain on topic this website has a very good definition that is commonly used and accepted by most.

http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/general/musclecars-definition.shtml

I've seen that site before. I don't really agree with a non SS Chevelle not being one just because it came from the factory with a different motor and suspension. They were all built with the same parts so its pretty easy to turn a non-SS into an SS as far as equipment goes. In my mind if a chevelle goes as fast as an SS it is a muscle car. Just don't try to sell it as a real SS.

call it what ya want, you like what ya like, and i like what i like. id rather have the awsome suspension of the mazda speed protege' with 130 to the front wheels. as for draging dont like it. i perfer drifting and autocross oh and even rally. muscle cars affordable, the only affordable ones are the crappy one like the mustang gt which losses a load of hp through its drivetrain.

I like drifting too. Its a lot of fun, but I call it fishtailing. I would love to try real high speed "drifting" but I can't find a road thats safe enough to do it. Maybe next time it rains I'll go to the Wal-mart parking lot and drift around the parking islands. :)

Well, you can look in my gallery and see how I call it. The Vettes yes & soon the 240Z. But not untill the trasplant gets done. For the most part I just call it with the HP\TQ numbers & a V motor 8 or bad azz 6. Yes I am a older person with a nissan love thing old & new but untill they get a V motor in um there SPORTS CARS :eek7: :banghead:

Well, you can look in my gallery and see how I call it. The Vettes yes & soon the 240Z. But not untill the trasplant gets done. For the most part I just call it with the HP\TQ numbers & a V motor 8 or bad azz 6. Yes I am a older person with a nissan love thing old & new but untill they get a V motor in um there SPORTS CARS :eek7: :banghead:


huh?

He's saying its a sports car not a muscle car. Needs a V8 to be a true muscle car.

So, if Muscle Cars are all V8 powered, and over 300ci at that, then what do we call the 1962 Buick Special with its turbocharged 215ci aluminum V8? Or, for that matter, the Corvair Monza coupes with their factory turbocharged flat-sixes (and, for even more fun, let's consider the Yenko Stinger Corvairs). Or, even for that matter, what about the Buick Grand National/GNX's or Cosworth Vegas?

Honestly, it's really a poor way to define a genre of cars. Let's see. If we were to go by the "GTO Definition" of a base-level intermediate sedan or coupe with a high performance engine and uprated suspension, then that eliminates compact muscle cars, (SS396 Nova, 340 Duster, Falcon Futura Sprint, Rebel Machine) full-sized muscle cars (455 boat-tail Rivieras, 421SD Pontiac Catalinas, Fairlane 500XL, 440 Chrysler Newports) and muscle cars that didn't share a platform with a base model (Dodge Challenger/Plymouth Barracuda, the last two generations of Firebird/Camaro, or the AMC Javelin/AMX).

However, when you expand the definition to allow for the generalities of these cars then you allow in cars that are obviously not muscle cars (AMC Marlin, non-Grabber Ford Mavericks, and Plymouth Valiants).

Muscle cars are a vagary. There isn't a set ideal to them, but when you see one it's readily apparent. It's something in the stance, the swagger, and the sound of these machines. Muscle cars are almost intangible.

So, if Muscle Cars are all V8 powered, and over 300ci at that, then what do we call the 1962 Buick Special with its turbocharged 215ci aluminum V8? Or, for that matter, the Corvair Monza coupes with their factory turbocharged flat-sixes (and, for even more fun, let's consider the Yenko Stinger Corvairs). Or, even for that matter, what about the Buick Grand National/GNX's or Cosworth Vegas?

Honestly, it's really a poor way to define a genre of cars. Let's see. If we were to go by the "GTO Definition" of a base-level intermediate sedan or coupe with a high performance engine and uprated suspension, then that eliminates compact muscle cars, (SS396 Nova, 340 Duster, Falcon Futura Sprint, Rebel Machine) full-sized muscle cars (455 boat-tail Rivieras, 421SD Pontiac Catalinas, Fairlane 500XL, 440 Chrysler Newports) and muscle cars that didn't share a platform with a base model (Dodge Challenger/Plymouth Barracuda, the last two generations of Firebird/Camaro, or the AMC Javelin/AMX).

However, when you expand the definition to allow for the generalities of these cars then you allow in cars that are obviously not muscle cars (AMC Marlin, non-Grabber Ford Mavericks, and Plymouth Valiants).

Muscle cars are a vagary. There isn't a set ideal to them, but when you see one it's readily apparent. It's something in the stance, the swagger, and the sound of these machines. Muscle cars are almost intangible.


point taken but i dont believe the grand national is a muscle car. i loved hearing that a 6 cylinder has out ran any other v8 mass produced those years.

Yeah, Buick motors rock!

Classic arguement. But I think most people would agree that a muscle car must have at least an eight cylinder engine. The turbo 6 cylinder Buicks of the '80s were great engines, but I wouldn't call them muscle cars.

Yeah, Buick motors rock!

Totally agree.

Classic arguement. But I think most people would agree that a muscle car must have at least an eight cylinder engine. The turbo 6 cylinder Buicks of the '80s were great engines, but I wouldn't call them muscle cars.


could you tell me why some people may think that you can only get great power from a v8?

could you tell me why some people may think that you can only get great power from a v8?

No one said you can only get great power from a V8 we are just saying that Muscle cars have V8's. Not being a muscle car is NOT an insult, in fact it may be a complement. Muscle cars are all engine, and are not balanced with the rest of the suspension and brakes. A BMW M3 owner would probably be offended if you called it a muscle car because it is a balanced performance machine. I wouldn't mind having own, but for 30 grand I could build a lot faster muscle car. Straight line performance is more important to me. Most would agree that all Muscle cars are American, 2 door and have a V8.

Not all muscle cars are American.

Let's not forget about the classic Aussie muscle cars like the Holden Monaro and the Ford Falcon GTs.

No one said you can only get great power from a V8 we are just saying that Muscle cars have V8's. Not being a muscle car is NOT an insult, in fact it may be a complement. Muscle cars are all engine, and are not balanced with the rest of the suspension and brakes. A BMW M3 owner would probably be offended if you called it a muscle car because it is a balanced performance machine. I wouldn't mind having own, but for 30 grand I could build a lot faster muscle car. Straight line performance is more important to me. Most would agree that all Muscle cars are American, 2 door and have a V8.


alot of muscle heads would say that v8s are the only engines that can produce great power.

Exactly. Muscle cars are American, have 2 doors, and V8s. Modern 4 and 6 cylinder import cars are either sports cars, sporty cars, or performance cars. No BMW owner would call their M3 a muscle car.

alot of muscle heads would say that v8s are the only engines that can produce great power.

Even I will admit that you don't need a V8 to produce great power - but it sure helps.

An old Ken & Mary 4door Skyline? Nope, not a muscle car.

Now, the Ken & Mary generation GTR Skyline, with that 250-300bhp (the factory never was too clear as to which end of that scale the S20 six was at) engine and fiberglass hood. That could be a different story.


I just wanted to see if i could fool yall. guess not. :lol2:

The Car is a 3rd generation Nissan Skyline. (1968-1972) guess yall muscle heads do know a little about Jap cars.

But for yall who call Jap car Jap Crap, the RB26DETT (Skyline GT-R 1989-1992, 1993-1998, and 1999-2002) is the most tuneable engine ever made. (so far:iceslolan) so, 2.6 liters can be better than have more.

I just wanted to see if i could fool yall. guess not. :lol2:

The Car is a 3rd generation Nissan Skyline. (1968-1972) guess yall muscle heads do know a little about Jap cars.

But for yall who call Jap car Jap Crap, the RB26DETT (Skyline GT-R 1989-1992, 1993-1998, and 1999-2002) is the most tuneable engine ever made. (so far:iceslolan) so, 2.6 liters can be better than have more.



i hear this engine can handle upwards of 500 hp with out upgrading the internals, try that in an american engine or even an american v8 for that matter.

i hear this engine can handle upwards of 500 hp with out upgrading the internals, try that in an american engine or even an american v8 for that matter.

You can get 500hp out of any 98-02 Z28 pretty easily and thats a run of the mill car, not a supercar. A bolt-on supercharger kit will up the hp to 470. With intake and exhaust mods its pretty easy to see 500.

http://www.skylinegtr.com/n_images/skyline_history/4th.jpg



Well? would ya?uuummm... no. :rofl:

No way.

You can get 500hp out of any 98-02 Z28 pretty easily and thats a run of the mill car, not a supercar. A bolt-on supercharger kit will up the hp to 470. With intake and exhaust mods its pretty easy to see 500.


is this flywheel or at the wheels?

You can get 500hp out of any 98-02 Z28 pretty easily and thats a run of the mill car, not a supercar. A bolt-on supercharger kit will up the hp to 470. With intake and exhaust mods its pretty easy to see 500.


and can it handle that power all day everyday like it was made from the factory that way?

The venerable 426 Hemi would support more than 500hp easy. Hows about the 502 motor all of those are running nothing special GM parts and are making above 500+ (except for the direct replacmet truck one.) Theres a few more that could. BTW Skyline are limited prodution cars so they take a lot more time with them, so lets add this one 428CJ. Some one help me out with the power figures.

http://www.skylinegtr.com/n_images/skyline_history/4th.jpg



Well? would ya?

I would consider this a muscle cars, one of the best ever built, it still has more power then any muscle car ever built. HHHMMM built in 1969, even with all the technology cars still aren't faster then this one, take a look at this guys.

http://www.skylinegtr.com/n_images/skyline_history/4th.jpg



Well? would ya?

I would consider this a muscle car, one of the best ever built, it still has more power then any muscle car ever built. HHHMMM built in 1969, even with all the technology cars still aren't faster then this one, take a look at this guys. http://musclev8.freeservers.com/zl1.htm

David C. Atkin

Editor HP-CAR.COM

http://hp-car.com

So what are the hp/torque and 1/4 mile times on that POS anyways?

a muscle car to me is a large old car high displace a decent hp rating a nice torque rating. can handle for nothing. strait line you have to really learn the car to keep the rear wheels from slipping. exhuast sounds great. top speed is nice. so to me this car is not a muscle car and i am formilular with this car. is can really move.

Yeah, Buick motors rock!
Buick is great

If your a student of muscle cars history, then the first car to ever be called or considered a muscle cars was a 1963 Buick wildcat GS.

If your a student of muscle cars history, then the first car to ever be called or considered a muscle cars was a 1963 Buick wildcat GS.

I think you better start a new thread for that claim, because opinions are pretty varied on that matter.