Clowns with guns

Here's what happens when your country allows any moron who wants one to own a firearm.


21 Nov 2003 20:25:53 GMT
Texas man charged in death of whooping crane

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HOUSTON, Nov 21 (Reuters) - A Texas man faces up to a year in prison on federal charges after a game warden found a dead whooping crane, one of the world's rarest birds, in his possession, officials said on Friday.

The crane apparently was shot Nov. 14 at a lake near Dallas while making the birds' annual winter migration from Canada to Texas, U.S. Attorney Jane Boyle in Dallas said in a statement.

There are only about 200 of the white, 4-foot-tall (1.20 metre) cranes left in the wild, experts say. They winter at a Texas reserve after a 2,500-mile (4,000 km) flight from Canada.

Donald Jones, 48, will be arraigned Dec. 12 on charges he violated the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, Boyle said. If convicted, punishment could be up to a year in prison and a$100,000 fine.

News reports said a game warden caught Jones with the dead crane, which is protected as an endangered species, and three ducks which had been shot out of season.

Jones told the Dallas Morning News the crane was shot by accident because of "misidentification."


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Misidentification, my arse! The fucking thing is 4 feet in length and pure white!What the hell did he think it was that he was shooting at?A flying refrigerator?Assclowns like this pillock do not deserve the right to own a gun.It's time that the bottom layer of the gun owning fraternity was removed.

Here's what happens when your country allows any moron who wants one to own a firearm.

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Misidentification, my arse! The fucking thing is 4 feet in length and pure white!What the hell did he think it was that he was shooting at?A flying refrigerator?Assclowns like this pillock do not deserve the right to own a gun.It's time that the bottom layer of the gun owning fraternity was removed.

I still say that when you make guns illegal, only people who obey the laws will cease to own them. Obviously, this fellow does not obey the laws. Problem not solved.

Give me a gun. I'll mistake this guys identity for an upright walking kangaroo. :D

I still say that when you make guns illegal, only people who obey the laws will cease to own them.


Aaaah,the old excuses are the best.............

Gun controls have been put in place in many civilised countries over the last century.I'd be obliged if you can demonstrate just ONE case where the rate of armed offending has increased after sensible legislation to reduce the availability of lethal weapons to morons and criminals was enacted.

Give me a gun. I'll mistake this guys identity for an upright walking kangaroo. :D

Yeah, we all know what Aussies do to 'roos :iceslolan

I find that humorous, but only b/c of the "the straight arrow" episode on King of the Hill. But that is crazy shit.

Aaaah,the old excuses are the best.............

Gun controls have been put in place in many civilised countries over the last century.I'd be obliged if you can demonstrate just ONE case where the rate of armed offending has increased after sensible legislation to reduce the availability of lethal weapons to morons and criminals was enacted.

I haven't chexked into this so feel free to tell me Im wrong, but the UK has had gun control in effect for yonx and shootings are on the rise.

As for the bloke from Texas, what if he were just out hunting and shot the bird without knowing it was endangered? It could have been an honest mistake, and considering that he was from the south he might not even know what an endangered species is.

I haven't chexked into this so feel free to tell me Im wrong, but the UK has had gun control in effect for yonx and shootings are on the rise.

As for the bloke from Texas, what if he were just out hunting and shot the bird without knowing it was endangered? It could have been an honest mistake, and considering that he was from the south he might not even know what an endangered species is.
Yes, you are wrong. UK shootings remain stable. And the sooner you Americans get over your prevailing national 'fear' mentality (I need a gun to protect myself. HOW ABOUT YOU AND ANYONE WHO MIGHT ATTACK/ROB YOU DOESN'T HAVE A FUCKING GUN LIKE EVERY OTHER COUNTRY??!?) the better the world will be.
[/rant]

Today 95,000,000 other legal gun owners didn't do anything illegal with their guns. Forget the gun, some people don't deserve to be outside unsupervised.

Sorry Oz. I would prefer that the person attacking/robbing me doesn't have a gun and I do have one. Makes the situation a whole lot better for me.

Today 95,000,000 other legal gun owners didn't do anything illegal with their guns. Forget the gun, some people don't deserve to be outside unsupervised.

Sorry Oz. I would prefer that the person attacking/robbing me doesn't have a gun and I do have one. Makes the situation a whole lot better for me.
:rolleyes: Feel free to continue proving my point.

Today 95,000,000 other legal gun owners didn't do anything illegal with their guns. Forget the gun, some people don't deserve to be outside unsupervised.

Sorry Oz. I would prefer that the person attacking/robbing me doesn't have a gun and I do have one. Makes the situation a whole lot better for me.

I would just let them go ahead and take what i had. You're more likely to be shot if you pull a gun out and if i did have a gun it would be the most valuable thing on me so whats the point? I could buy another wallet to sit empty in my pocket and eat another box of cornflakes for my watch.

:rolleyes: Feel free to continue proving my point.

I should have counted on great your insight :disappoin




Cavallino - feel free to let your things go then. Nobody is demanding that you own or use a firearm. Don't assume to tell me how I should respond to someone threatening me or my family. Someone takes a few trinket from my house, I'll not go to the level of using a gun if they just take off and run when they see me. Someone raping my wife on the other hand will be nothing but a smear when I get done with them.

The ownership of firearms down here is nowhere near the levels of many other western countries particularly the US. There is no right to possess arms, it is regarded as a privilege although the licencing process is largely a formality.

There is still an element of gungho about the use of firearms - testament being the sad number of hunting accidents using high powered rifles from hunters failing to adequately identify their targets and killing their mates...

Now having been around firearms for a lot of my life and being fairly proficient with their use - has further instilled to me the respect for firearms and the need to restrict their possession and use.

I have used weapons that can do a very effective and efficient job at snuffing the existence of individuals from as far away as a mile away. I've also used automatic weapons that are robust, and are stunning effective at being able to strike down multiple targets in the time it takes to light a cigarette.

But the thing about this incredibly effective instruments of death... is that death is a pretty final solution and you all you have as recourse is remorse - even then I'm sure that even time can't heal the unseen wounds.

As for the shotgun under the bed Yogs. I've considered what I would do in a situation where I was presented with a situation of extreme distress and to be honest - most of the scenarios don't lend themselves to presenting a firearm.

I've spoken and been counselled by someone in the personal security industry who shall remain nameless and the advice was that the first response is to get the invader out of your house as quickly as possible - pausing to retrieve a weapon wastes vital seconds and generally most invaders when presented with a situation will try to flee first.

Get them out of the house or out of your space first then worry about revenge/apprehending them later - that's what the professionals are there to do.

As for the shotgun under the bed Yogs. I've considered what I would do in a situation where I was presented with a situation of extreme distress and to be honest - most of the scenarios don't lend themselves to presenting a firearm.

I do not disagree with you at all. I don't treat my weapons with a cavalier attitude. I would also be hesitent to confront someone intruding in my home. Taking the life of another person is not something that I am seeking out. With that said, I do believe that if the situation came to a him or me level, I wouldn't hesitate to get the gun and pull the trigger. While I expect that it will never happen, I am prepared in that unlikely event.

Alas - I do not own any shotguns. Rifles yes, revolvers and pistols yes but no shotguns. (when we shoot clays, I use one of my fathers) For anyone who is further interested, the only time the weapons are loaded an near me is when I am carrying them (CCW) or hunting. At night time they are placed in the closet unloaded. Since there is only the wife and myself, I have no concern about little hands getting ahold of one of them.

My beef is with people who feel that I should not own a gun for whatever their reasons. To everyone who feels they do not want or need one, then thats your choice. I choose to own a few. If the fact I own guns scares anyone here from ever visiting my home, then its just more beer for me. :icon16:

I understand mate - but making the ownership and possession of firearms for legitimate purposes a controlled activity employs a principle that a lethal device should have some controls about its use and the people who have access to them.

It's a philosophical difference and being brought up in a society where firearms are not as common or accessible leaves you with different value sets. Part of the responsibility I have is that I am very proficient with a variety of weapons and I understand how lethal they can be. I also know that I have possess enough instincts for self-preservation that in a him or me situation that the other party is going to be in trouble.

One of the precepts of the legal defence of self-defence in the New Zealand legal system is that of reasonable force. Given my training and skills the reasonable force test would be different than say one of my friends who does not possess these skills as it would be argued I had a greater capability to restrain or incapacitate someone with greater accuracy without resorting to more drastic measures... it's something that I hope never gets tested.

My beef is with people who feel that I should not own a gun for whatever their reasons. To everyone who feels they do not want or need one, then thats your choice. I choose to own a few. If the fact I own guns scares anyone here from ever visiting my home, then its just more beer for me. :icon16:

Going back to the original argument,I believe I said that Assclowns like this pillock do not deserve the right to own a gun.It's time that the bottom layer of the gun owning fraternity was removed.

Nowhere in that statement have I included you.

My argument is that if a car is considered dangerous enough in incompetent hands to warrant a proficiency test,how is it that a person can have the right to wander into a gun shop,slap down their cash,then head for the backblocks and start firing at anything that flies?

Gun owners should have a valid reason for owning a firearm,and be competent in firearm safety and firearms LEGISLATION.If you intend to go hunting,you should be able to identify your proposed target,and know whether or not the season is open or closed.If you are caught poaching,or as this fool was,getting mindlessly trigger-happy,you have demonstrated a lack of responsibility that should preclude you from owning a lethal weapon.

I knew you weren't referring to me T. It was directed at those out there who think that guns should be taken from everyone.

I think that there are pleanty of laws on the books about gun ownership. (though a few additional requirements wouldn't be out of line) Its just that a large number of them are not enforced.

This is what is boils down to.

As an adult you should be able to make your own desisions. Do you want to hunt? Do you want to target shoot? Do you want to collect firearms? These are all hobbies like any other. The same as knitting, collecting baseball cards, snowboarding, ect. Do you want to protect your family?

Any responsible adult who owns a gun knows how to protect, care for and properly use their firearm. I'm not even going to pretend that acidents dont happen. Nor will i ignor the just plain stupid people in society. But should a minority number of stupid people take away other peoples freedom, rights, hobbies, ect. The only inteligent answer is no.

Because by using that argument a case can be made to out law anything. Cars kill people, SUV's kill people, alcohol kills people as does drunk driving (so dont even try that "only effects the user argument"), smoking and second hand smoke, almost anything can be outlawed using this argument.

Im not going to preach the thousands or pro gun statistics or anti gun stats, for the simple fact that statistcs are inheriently flawed. They vary depending on who is giving the survey, where it is taken place, what time of year it is, who takes and survey, or the varibles that account for numbers in statistics. example: (numbers made up for example) 800,000 people were killed last year by guns. Well how many of those were suicides, police shootings, hunting accidents, ect. Cases that most people whould count if you were arguing guns are bad, or maybe you would, which further proves my point.

The fact is that if you try to over compensate for the stupid, bad, or evil people in life, then none of us whould have any freedoms. I know that a "slippery slope" argument is a falicy, but stop and think about how far it could go. We lose our freedom of speech because some people are talking about hurting others, or teasing someone until the commit suicide, or any other crazy argument you can imagine. That may be an extream, but it seems extream and just crazy to me to take away individuals freedoms, rights, ect away from honest responsible people. Extra action by the police, our legal system, ect, are more reasonable paths.

You anti-gun people may not like sayings like "guns dont kill people, people kill people" but you cant ignore their points or deny that they are true.

As for the rest of the world, i couldnt care less.

Ok, the hunter was a total dickhead.

But further to the whole gun debate issue, why the fuck do people think its a good idea to own a gun for a self defense purpose??? What, you're gonna wake up, go rambo and shoot the burglers asses off? Or would you wake the fuck up to yourself and realise, hell, these guys will fuck off soon, and I've got insurance. Its like snakes, they dont bite you until you threaten them, then you die. And as for the whole "robbery" threat so I need a gun debate. I can whip a bullet over your shoulder with the assault rifles we use, it doesnt even need to hit you, and it'll rip your face apart. Is this not overkill for some bugger who wants your tv or dvd player? Or does it make you har core because you "defended your castle"??? Guns suck arse big time. For those people who feel it makes them all big, strong and defensive, put it down, and tell the world how big you are then.

Because by using that argument a case can be made to out law anything. Cars kill people, SUV's kill people, alcohol kills people as does drunk driving (so dont even try that "only effects the user argument"), smoking and second hand smoke, almost anything can be outlawed using this argument.
.

............and all of your examples are closely regulated by government.So how come it's easier to buy a gun in some states than it is to buy beer?

When I opened this thread I thought MR T was talking about a nightmare, due to gun control mnot interesting me one bit, I will not proceed beyond this point

Ok, the hunter was a total dickhead.

But further to the whole gun debate issue, why the fuck do people think its a good idea to own a gun for a self defense purpose??? What, you're gonna wake up, go rambo and shoot the burglers asses off? Or would you wake the fuck up to yourself and realise, hell, these guys will fuck off soon, and I've got insurance. Its like snakes, they dont bite you until you threaten them, then you die. And as for the whole "robbery" threat so I need a gun debate. I can whip a bullet over your shoulder with the assault rifles we use, it doesnt even need to hit you, and it'll rip your face apart. Is this not overkill for some bugger who wants your tv or dvd player? Or does it make you har core because you "defended your castle"??? Guns suck arse big time. For those people who feel it makes them all big, strong and defensive, put it down, and tell the world how big you are then.

Because if you don't own one, the King of England could just come walking through your door and push you around. And you don't want that do you?

Yeah this needs to be updated but thats as unconstitutional as taking away someone's gun.

Aaaah,the old excuses are the best.............

Gun controls have been put in place in many civilised countries over the last century.I'd be obliged if you can demonstrate just ONE case where the rate of armed offending has increased after sensible legislation to reduce the availability of lethal weapons to morons and criminals was enacted.

That's easy. Just look at Washington, D.C. The MURDER capital of the world.

You mentioned "sensible legislation", then how it "reduced the availability of lethal weapons to morons and criminals".

Umm... criminals don't CARE about the laws that are enacted. That's what makes 'em criminals. Or am I missing something?

............and all of your examples are closely regulated by government.So how come it's easier to buy a gun in some states than it is to buy beer?

I dont know what state your referencing, probably none. Or the SIMPSONS "springfield" state. Either way guns ARE closely regulated by all states. I will agree that ILLEGAL guns maybe as easy to get as ILLEGAL beer, however i would argue that that responsibility rests on the shoulders of the police, not the individual citizens. Also once something becomes and illegal item on the black market then all systems or regulation have failed, and the only system in place is anarchy

I for one am enjoying this debate.

That's easy. Just look at Washington, D.C. The MURDER capital of the world.

You mentioned "sensible legislation", then how it "reduced the availability of lethal weapons to morons and criminals".

Umm... criminals don't CARE about the laws that are enacted. That's what makes 'em criminals. Or am I missing something?

Yes,you are clearly missing something here.Illegal firearms don't just fall out of the sky.They are either stolen from legal sources,or sold to unauthorised purchasers by people who don't give a fuck about the consequenses.If you are going to own a firearm,it should be your responsibility to ensure that it is used responsibly,and doesn't fall into criminal hands through careless storage or irresponsible sale.The fewer households have guns,the less opportunity there is for criminals to obtain them.

desert eagle muthafuckaz

Either way guns ARE closely regulated by all states.




then utah must not be a state since and at gun shows here you can just buy guns without any permit....

yeah very closelly regulated :rolleyes:

desert eagle muthafuckaz

Prime example of a clown :disappoin

The fewer households have guns,the less opportunity there is for criminals to obtain them.

Just out of curiousity, who gets to decide who is allowed to own a gun and who isn't?

A sheriff looks like the obvious choice on the face of it, but the sheriff is (usually) a human being and can be influenced, or have their own personal agenda to push. I've seen it happen; it ain't pretty.

Prime example of a clown :disappoin

click-click....

Just out of curiousity, who gets to decide who is allowed to own a gun and who isn't?

A sheriff looks like the obvious choice on the face of it, but the sheriff is (usually) a human being and can be influenced, or have their own personal agenda to push. I've seen it happen; it ain't pretty.

The responsibility for issuing gun licences in NZ falls to the police department.

It's not really open to interpretation.If you can't pass a fairly simple written testof weapons legislation and safety procedures,demonstrate that you can provide suitable secure storage for your weapons,or have a history of violent offending,you don't get a licence.

This country is not short of guns,but the attitude of responsible firearm ownership means that very few end up in the wrong hands.

Well, lets see here...

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/guncrime.htm
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tables/frmdth.htm


The brady bill was passed in enacted in 1994 when slick Willy was in office. The murder rate has dropped a huge amount since then. Now, this bill advocated quite a few things, mainly registration of firearms, which is a good thing, and a bad thing. On the one hand we need to have some way to trace someone or use the weapon they have as evidence and linking that gun to them and tracing it's purchase history is one way to go about it. However.... Registering your gun, puts you on a list with the government. If you own a certain type or a certain number, I guarantee you have a little red flag next to your name.

My father purchased a model A1 Colt AR15 in 1977. When the Brady bill passed, we were good citizens and registered it with my dad as primary owner and my mom as secondary. Then, California state law and the bitc... er I mean Barbara Boxer came about. These 'assault weapons' were banned in this state from purchase or transfer of name. We were told to re-register it, on our own time and money mind you, and that from now on we could only use it on the shooting range or private land. No one but my mother and father could legally hold it other than an officer seizing it. My dad used it for rabbit and squirrel hunting. Wow, such a horrible crime... In 1997, my dad died. Instead of inheiriting this firearm since my mother doesn't want anything to do with it, I'm going to have to let it sit there, or move out of state. If she were to die, I would immediately have to sell it out of state through a licensed dealer, or turn it over to a cop for immediate destruction. "The government would NEVER use your registration against you!" Bullshit.

As to your proof:

Australia:

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/facts/2002/tab01a.html

In Australia robbery almost doubled in 6 years since their gun loss. Murders are about the same, assault is up by 1/3, sexual assault is up... etc.

United Kingdom:

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/STATBASE/ssdataset.asp?vlnk=6025

You'll have to down load to see this unfortunately, but for the cases of crimes where guns were used.... they've gone up across the board in the UK.

My point? In the U.S. we have some gun control, but can still get a hold of guns relatively easily. We can get Concealed Carry permits that allow us to carry firearms on our person for self defense and our crime rate has dropped and continues dropping.

I believe that I've done my part in this conversation.

P.S. It took me a few seconds to look up the info on the US and Australia, but almost 30 minutes for the UK stuff. Coincidence? might we be trying to hide some embarrasment? Oh well, whatever. I love to go shooting, it's so relaxing. You think venting in here is fun? Try venting with some firepower! Now that's fun! I'm so damn glad I can go to the local gunshop and buy a gun... it's one major reason I'll never live in another 'civilized' country.

A very interesting and well presented point of view,justacruiser.Pity that so few of your fellow gun-owners appear capable of logical and calm thought.