Environmentalism?

When do you have enough of it? I mean, can there be too much? When does it become harmful to human interests? Do rats have feelings too? Are we really killing the Earth? Or is it just overreaction at this point?

I like eating nice, thick cuts of steak. Am I going to hell for that? Nope, not where I come from.

You will to just fine here in Texas!

Originally posted by kbslacker
I like eating nice, thick cuts of steak. Am I going to hell for that? Nope, not where I come from.


Let me add to that. I am a softy when it comes to animals. I once went hunting with my father. I felt so bad for what I was doing. Since then, I have never been hunting again. I sometimes like to fish however. But when I do, it is always catch and release. I even go as far as catching a damn spider in my house here, and walking it outside. I guess thats just me though.

Well, thats different. Around here, a lot of people go hunting. Its not my thing really, but i have no qualms about eating meat. But i also meant like when people stop building a school or highway for some rare fly or rat or some silly nonsense, or putting insane pollution controls on cars...take global warming...

Its a natural thing for the earth to cool and heat up. Remeber the ice age we had 10000 years ago? Where did all the ice go? It melted. Why? The earth was warming! WOW! Then, it cooled off a few centuries ago. Then it warmed again! Amazing! There is geologic evidence that temperature fluctuations have been occuring ever since the earth was a ball of lava. I admit smog is nasty, and having lived in LA and in Houston, i can tell you it sucks. But, i dont think we are gonna have a meltdown anytime soon.

Well, i think that it has been scientifically proven that humans are in fact, destroying the earth. Now, i don't know what your reference to the rats is, but harm done to any animal that does not qualifie as a pest or rodent (i.e. WILD rats) there should be consequences. As for harming the earth, i think it was inevatable because of human nature. Now, that does not mean that we as humans cannot change. Quite the contrary, i believe that change is one quality that makes humans, humans.
This last comment i have is just an example of what i think is going to far. I think an extremist for the feelings of other living things or what not, would be a person who would only eat fruit and vegtables that have died before they get to your plate. So in other words, an apple is killed if it is picked off the tree verses natrual death, as in falling from the tree in it own time.....i don't know if there is such a thing like this out there, but hey....who knows. Just as a side note, i do not, in any way, think poorly of thoses who are vegetarians....at least you guys have the nerve to pick that apple. :)
With that said, i think i'll go now...........

The scientific evidence is suspect for many reasons - their computer model that they use to "prove" their theories has not been right once. Not ever. These are the same people who twenty years ago were claiming that humans were causing another ice age because the earth had several years of cooling. Scientificly proven. Please bring me a conclusive study that is not paid for by one of the green organizations or affiliated with them. Good luck with that. There are as many studies disproving the claims that people are taking as gospel. Those claims should be suspect as well.

The shear arrogance of humans in believing we can manipulate our environment on a planetary scale so easily.

Heres one that I just loved hearing from the greens. Remember how they claimed we were destroying 10000 acres of rain forest a day several years ago (or similar amounts). Well, the darn thing about that is we should have long run out of rain forest a long time ago. But, there still there.

Can we do better for the environment, absolutely. I dont condone going out of our way to polute and destroy needlessly. I do however balk at the notion that we're causing the ecological destruction of the planet.

Well, define destroying.

I think in terms of using up oil reserves and minerals, probably so. But, i think if we can develope some cheap way of producing electricity (read: nuclear), we can almost fabricate anything with enough energy. Some things puzzle me. Why should humanity be stopped to bend to the "rights" of a fly? Or maybe fish. In Klamath Valley in Oregon, the farmers are losing crops because of drought-like conditions. But this drought was man-made. The water for their fields was turned off so some salmon could go and have sex. Now, i like salmon, but i think there are more important things like feeding humans before we worry about a salmon's sex life. The reason America has so much food is because we have the some of the best farmers in the world. We are also blessed with wide spaces to grow crops. I feel that as Americans we should look out for one of the basic things in human nature, and that is our bellies. If we made all farmers make do like the ones in Oregon, get ready for anorexic America.

And devine intervention happens. :eek:

sorry KBS, i got my forums phux0rd didnt i?

http://geocities.com/tsp159/eek.txt

Originally posted by 1989 DX R
sorry KBS, i got my forums phux0rd didnt i?




lol, it's cool. I didnt realise a debate would erupt. :D

ok, I LOVE this topic..

First of all, we are not destroying this world. In fact because of environmentalist's, we have lost thousands of acres of forests when fires have occured (from natural occurances like lightning).. they wouldn't let people go in and clear out the dead, dry brush to help prevent massive fires if one started.. well all that stuff burned real well :(


As far as oil goes, with what we have right now, all our oil fields, we have enough to last us over 200 years, that doesn't even include any untapped resources yet, and that is just from the U.S, that's not counting all the oil oversea's.

We will have another ice age, not matter what.. we can't do anything about it, the earths axis has a "wobble" to it.. meaning that our north star today, was not the northstar thousands of years ago.. and thousands of year from now, there will be another north star.. Because of that wobble, our season's will change. right now when it is summer, ( assuming you are on the northern hemisphere) we are the farthest from the sun so our orbit around the sun slows down. as winter comes we are actually closer to the sun as far as our orbit goes and since we are closer to it, our orbit speeds up. Eventually, our summer's will be during our current winter months and vice versa.. since the summer months will be shorter, there won't be enough time to burn the ice created from the longer winters.. so that's how the ice age will begin.. the only place that will probably be "normal" is around the equator..

the only way we could truly fuck up this planet is if we had a full out nuclear war.. other than that, everything else is BULLSHIT!!!

i think most environmentalists are stupid idiots..... not all, but just seems like most of them are :D :D lol

Even jesus killed animals for gods sake..... if you're going to kill it to eat it then there's nothing wrong with that
I eat meat almost every single day.... it's just so good :D

not just the meat thing, there are bunch of stupid ass things they fight for (like greenpeace)

bunch of tree huggers.... lol :)

no offense to anyone, just my opinion

Originally posted by YogsVR4
The scientific evidence is suspect for many reasons - their computer model that they use to "prove" their theories has not been right once. Not ever. These are the same people who twenty years ago were claiming that humans were causing another ice age because the earth had several years of cooling. Scientificly proven. Please bring me a conclusive study that is not paid for by one of the green organizations or affiliated with them. Good luck with that. There are as many studies disproving the claims that people are taking as gospel. Those claims should be suspect as well.

The shear arrogance of humans in believing we can manipulate our environment on a planetary scale so easily.

Heres one that I just loved hearing from the greens. Remember how they claimed we were destroying 10000 acres of rain forest a day several years ago (or similar amounts). Well, the darn thing about that is we should have long run out of rain forest a long time ago. But, there still there.

Can we do better for the environment, absolutely. I dont condone going out of our way to polute and destroy needlessly. I do however balk at the notion that we're causing the ecological destruction of the planet.

Ah, beat me to it.

mark49, and yogsvr4, i agree with you guys to the fullest. i feel that those green peace people are way out of hand. about resources coming out of the earths crust, we have only affected something like 3% of it throughout our existance.they also complain about people moving into areas where there are areas, guess that means there are too many people, huh? if so, i say they should be the first to go...

i cant wait for a "redpeace" when we colonize Mars and exploit its resources. From what scientists have been saying aobut life on mars before, perhaps there is a lot of oil there. So the rebirth of 5 gpm v8 musclescars will happen once again!

Point #1 - all statistics are meaningless - nobody posts figures which disprove their own arguments.Statistics is the art of setting the parameters to suit your opinions.


My question - why do different cultures find the consumption of different species unacceptable, and who decides which species to exclude from the list of what is acceptable eating?

Originally posted by taranaki
My question - why do different cultures find the consumption of different species unacceptable, and who decides which species to exclude from the list of what is acceptable eating?

It's almost always religious in nature, and often also ethnocentric . Whether it be based on a sound worry of health, direct religious dictum, or the plain old forbidding people of differing religions getting to know one another, the key is always whacky religious belief. Read up on the rules of Kosher eating sometime, especially those of Rabbinic Injunction.

Originally posted by Steel
So the rebirth of 5 gpm v8 musclescars will happen once again!




TESTIFY!!!!

Originally posted by texan


It's almost always religious in nature, and often also ethnocentric . Whether it be based on a sound worry of health, direct religious dictum, or the plain old forbidding people of differing religions getting to know one another, the key is always whacky religious belief. Read up on the rules of Kosher eating sometime, especially those of Rabbinic Injunction.


Ok,but where is the wacky religious belief with dolphins and whales,cats and dogs,horses etc?

Originally posted by taranaki
Ok,but where is the wacky religious belief with dolphins and whales,cats and dogs,horses etc?

They're friendly, they're somewhat intelligent. Some species are also endangered, and in the case of dolphins are most often killed in fishing nets meant for other species. In other words they are the underdogs, and remind us a little bit of ourselves. You don't here anybody raising hell about the plight of carrots and onions because they in almost no way remind us of ourselves. Ever heard the argument of humane death, or that we shouldn't kill any animal with a central nervous system? This applies our own sacntity of human life beliefs to other things similar to ourselves, but plants without nervous systems are straight screwed since they supposed can't tell they are being destroyed.

Dogs, cats and horses are our pets, which means they are to a certain extent part of our families. With humans the only thing not usually on the menu is that we which find some parity with, hence those animals are strictly taboo (and you can add most primates to that list). It's pathetic really, the only rights to life activitsts challenge are those which most closely resemble our own. On the other hand cannibalism is not forbidden in some cultures, though it has very serious biological consequenses and is therefore naturally not something you see very often within any species.

sorry,my point could have been clearer...............some cultures do eat our pet species.......is it out of need, or do they see dogs,cats,dolphins etc as a legitimate food source,and if so,why?

cause those animals just weren't ever seen as pets there? maybe...
if they were never made to look taboo, then people wouldn't think twice about eating them

altho i do agree with animal rights on ponits such as the way food is made. Like veal. everyone loves veal, but how many of them know that's its made by locking a calf into a box for its short life so it cant move before its killed? and other such attrocities, such as the meaningless beatings of animals. I knew a dog beater. Poor dog, took me a good part of a year to gain its trust, and i let it free, watched it maul the owner. i was rooting for the dog, but they had to put the dog down after that :( not fair. i egged that guys house and did so much crap to him after that.

why would you beat a dog? that guy's a jackass

probably a madd drunk or somethin

Originally posted by gang$tarr
why would you beat a dog? that guy's a jackass

probably a madd drunk or somethin


Usually just social misfits who have a cruel disposition and a cowardly nature.I try to feel sorry for these sickos but always end up wanting to slap them up .:mad:

I agree that a lot of these greenies go a little to far with there arguments against mans abuse of the earth but you people should realize that we are fucking up the environment and if you want proof then go find the nearest creek or river and drink a nice big glass of that fresh water that we didn't mess up and get back to me.
If you look back to the thirties in America when we started using all these new tools we had invented to help farm the land you will see we had a huge increases in crops and farmers were getting rich, but in a few short years they noticed the land wasn't supporting the crops and the top soil was drying up and huge portions of land were turning into desert. They had huge dust storms that drove a lot of families off their land and killed thousands because of all the dirt they were inhaling in the air. Since then we have learned to calm our selves and give the land time to replenish it's nutrients by planting one field for a season then leaving it alone and planting another field the next season. This however only helps to slow down the process and if you drive through Nebraska today you will see huge fields of crops and right next to them are sand dunes.
As for the poor farmers that can't water there crops because of salmon, don't worry to much because your belly is still full and they get money from the government to make up for there small harvest. And before you start worrying about whether or not your going to be able to have some mashed potato's to go with your nice thick slice of Betsy's ass just think of all the food we waste and all the people who have none to eat and all the food we could give to them and still be able to stuff our faces every night but don't because the farmers and grocery stores want to make enough money to afford the little calf who's feet have never touched the ground. But that is a different argument so I will leave it alone.
My point is we should take more care not to over exert what little power we do have over the earth.

I dont think many farmers are very rich. My main point was that people go too far in the name of "protecting the earth" Whats the rate the rainforest is dissapearing? Isnt it like 4 football fields a day? How long has this been happening now? 30, 40 years? Shouldnt we have destroyed all of it by now? Obviously i am against random burning of the rainforest, but it is a forest, it regrows. Besides 80% of the oxygen we breathe is created by phytoplankton, and there are plenty of those.

Originally posted by 1989 DX R
Whats the rate the rainforest is dissapearing? Isnt it like 4 football fields a day?

I hate to scare you, but according to the Rainforest Foundation UK,the figure is approx

ONE FOOTBALL FIELD PER SECOND.

Hot damn! What do they use down there? Nukes?

Originally posted by 1989 DX R
Hot damn! What do they use down there? Nukes?

may as well.......they use fire ,and lots of it........Total waste to create bare land for farming.But without proper drainage,or shelterbelts,or fertilisers,the land simply dries out,dies and blows away within a few years...................so they burn off some more and start again......:(

Now thats the problem, just get some damn education to those people.

Originally posted by 1989 DX R
Now thats the problem, just get some damn education to those people.

The major multinational companies who want cheap meat and crops would dissagree.