Ground Control?

Anyone used them before? how is the ride? Are they worth their price?

Thanks

Originally posted by wickedG20
Anyone used them before?

Yep.


Originally posted by wickedG20
how is the ride?

Depends upon spring rates, dampers and damper settings. Mine is great with 275/200, AGX at 2/2.

Originally posted by wickedG20
Are they worth their price?

Yep.

Do the ground control setting come factory set per your request or do you do it yourself or have a shop do it for you .... I want a comfortable street ride ...

Yeah, I want a comfortable street ride with a nice drop as well. Can this be possible if I use the stock shocks?

Originally posted by wickedG20
Yeah, I want a comfortable street ride with a nice drop as well. Can this be possible if I use the stock shocks?

Nope. Not at all. You will be bouncin soo much people will think you have switches. No if's,and's, butt's about it.

Originally posted by poppy_morenito
Do the ground control setting come factory set per your request or do you do it yourself or have a shop do it for you .... I want a comfortable street ride ...

You select the springs. You have to combine them with your own dampers and figure out the settings yourself or with the help of others.

Originally posted by P10DET


You select the springs. You have to combine them with your own dampers and figure out the settings yourself or with the help of others.

Ok, so I have the AGX's too. Do I select a spring rate when I order them ? Sorry If this sounds like a dumb question. After getting the Intrax I wantto make sure I get this right this time ...

I don't want to bounce up and down anymore.

My friends are calling be " Bobble Head Shawn "

Originally posted by poppy_morenito


Ok, so I have the AGX's too. Do I select a spring rate when I order them ? Sorry If this sounds like a dumb question. After getting the Intrax I wantto make sure I get this right this time ...

I don't want to bounce up and down anymore.

My friends are calling be " Bobble Head Shawn "

Nobody does anything for you. When you get the GC's, you have to select what height you want and you have to determine what dampening you want. Bobble Head Shawn, ha ha :hehehe: :hehe:

Ok thanks ... My neck is killing me ... and I felt like I achieved take off lift off speed going over a speed bump at work ....

Originally posted by poppy_morenito
Ok thanks ... My neck is killing me ... and I felt like I achieved take off lift off speed going over a speed bump at work ....

I know what you mean. A friend of my had some coilovers and he had some shocks too. But he had his car extra low and the ride was so firm, so you could se his head bounce like he was in a lowrider or something. I used to ride around with some lowering springs and no shocks and thought I could get away with it. Nope, just bouncing around like a basketball.

Originally posted by Mrcoilover


I know what you mean. A friend of my had some coilovers and he had some shocks too. But he had his car extra low and the ride was so firm, so you could se his head bounce like he was in a lowrider or something. I used to ride around with some lowering springs and no shocks and thought I could get away with it. Nope, just bouncing around like a basketball.

damn so theres no way of getting around new shocks? What are my other options besides the expensive set-ups such as tein, JIC, B&G etc..
What shocks do you recommend to buy for the p11? Is there any other way to go without buying new shocks? I want a drop (1.75 or so) with a non-bouncy smooth ride. I don't plan on going over 450-500 dollars.

Originally posted by wickedG20


damn so theres no way of getting around new shocks? What are my other options besides the expensive set-ups such as tein, JIC, B&G etc..
What shocks do you recommend to buy for the p11? Is there any other way to go without buying new shocks? I want a drop (1.75 or so) with a nice non-bouncy smooth ride

I know what you mean about have a low smoothe ride. I hated the fact that the Tein's were so much. At first I was thinking of getting the GC's with the GAB struts. But found out you can't get GAB struts and they have a harsh ride. I also heard that GC's have some problem being mounted properly or something, and someone said they squeak. Koni will have some struts out I think 12/22/01. I know it is sometime in DEC. But they aren't adjustable. Here is how I thought. I want the least amount of trouble getting what I wanted, which was a drop about 2''s, not making the ride too bouncy. So TEIN is the only way to go. I already got my springs, just waiting on the struts and I'm gonna be low. Just weigh your options.

So how will the ride be if I put GC's and lower with the GC's about an 1.5" and keep the stock shocks on a 2002 sport

Originally posted by G20 SpoRt 2002
So how will the ride be if I put GC's and lower with the GC's about an 1.5" and keep the stock shocks on a 2002 sport

Shitty

So are you trying to say that unless you don't spend more than like $800, don't expect to get a smooth ride??

are the OEM Infiniti G20 Struts that weak?? All my friends are riding with stock struts and lowering springs and the ride is smooth along with a nice drop. of course they don't own g20's but????

Originally posted by Mrcoilover

I hated the fact that the Tein's were so much. At first I was thinking of getting the GC's with the GAB struts. But found out you can't get GAB struts and they have a harsh ride.
I also heard that GC's have some problem being mounted properly or something, and someone said they squeak. Koni will have some struts out I think 12/22/01. I know it is sometime in DEC. But they aren't adjustable.

Why can't you get GAB struts anymore? Lots of people in the US have GABs.

The Konis are also infinitely adjustable, just not externally. You can get the Konis now, lots of places carry them. It's just that Koni doesn't list them as an application for the P11 yet.

If you're in SoCal, come out to a SERCA(SoCal SE-R club)event and you can check out G20 with coilovers. I think you'll like them and will understand why they cost more.

Don McLaurin

Originally posted by wickedG20
So are you trying to say that unless you don't spend more than like $800, don't expect to get a smooth ride??

are the OEM Infiniti G20 Struts that weak?? All my friends are riding with stock struts and lowering springs and the ride is smooth along with a nice drop. of course they don't own g20's but????

The bottomline is this. There are 2 main reasons for shitty ride quality:

1. car bottoms out
2. springs too firm for shocks causing super bounciness

Now, IMO, shitty ride quality and "smooth" ride does not necessarily equate to the same thing. For instance, when I had eibach springs and stock shocks on my P10, the ride quality was relatively "smooth" over small bumps, gravel, etc. The ride quality of my current GC/AGX set up feels significantly firmer and more "jiggly".

BUT, when I hit even a moderate size bump or a set of railroad tracks, the "smooth" ride quality of the Eibach/stock shock set up turned to a SUPER HARSH CRAPPY ride. This is because the spring and shock would immediately compress over these medium size bumps and WHACK the bumpstops. Imagine a suspension system without ANY spring and shock travel (say riding your skateboard over railroad tracks) that is what my G20 felt like over the medium sized bumps. The car would bottom out so harshly that my windshield wiper stalk would activate and my rear view mirror would actually be misadjusted from the jarring. There's a set of RR tracks near my home. With the eibach spring/stock shock set up, I would not be able to cross the tracks faster than 5mph or my car would just bottom out unmercifully. With the GC/AGX set up, I can EASILY blast over those same RR tracks at 30 mph even with my 205-40-17 tires without feeling the car bottom out at all.

Now, a suspension set up such as the GC/AGX IS firmer than stock and will FEEL firmer than the eibach/stock shock combo on small bumps, etc. You will think the ride quality isn't that great. And, the truth is, I've felt properly lowered cars that had significantly better ride quality. BUT, when you hit those larger bumps, railroad tracks, etc., the ride quality of the much stiffer GC/AGX set up is VERY VERY GOOD. In fact, it is as good as stock, if not better because your car is no longer bottoming out on the bumpstops.

Another problem with pairing stock shocks with Eibachs or any other stiffer aftermarket spring is that the stock shocks does not have enough dampening to control the stiffer springs. If you want to know what dampening is, pick up a shock and push and pull on the shaft. What you will find is, on the stock shock, it is very easy to compress and pull out the shaft of the shock because the dampening rate is very low. Now, try this with a stiffer shock such as a GAB or AGX. What you will find is, it is VERY VERY hard to compress or pull out the shaft of the shock. This is because there is significanly HIGHER dampening on the stiffer shock. Now, this stiffness, especially on the compression stroke, causes the stiffer ride over small bumps, etc., but over larger bumps, the stiffer dampening is crucial in 1) preventing the car from bottoming out and 2) preventing the car from oscillating up and down endlessly giving you that bouncy ride. This bouncy ride is most notable at freeway speeds when you hit a large dip. With the stock shock/eibach spring set up, my car would bounce up and down over and over a few times before settling. With the GC/AGX set up, when I hit a large freeway dip, the car would compress once and just return to stock ride height without the endless up and down oscillations.

So, in summary, the GC/AGX combo will not provide a "smooth" ride over small bumps, etc., but will feel smoother and ride much better over larger bumps and at freeway speeds.

Glen

how hard is it to install a GC/AGX in a P10. What tools and what advice or tricks can you tell me?

so in conlusion...the g20 is not a good car to lower compared to other imports? I was considering the GC/KYB Gr2 setup, but I dont think im gonna do it...especially if it is not a decent ride over small bumps....I have done the intrax thing, and it was how Glen described that railroad track example. I want the lowered look but I want a decent ride....*sigh* arent there any good springs for our p10 Gs?? is HKS any good?

Originally posted by uclandru
so in conlusion...the g20 is not a good car to lower compared to other imports?

Who said that? That would be a very bad conclusion to draw.

Originally posted by uclandru
I was considering the GC/KYB Gr2 setup, but I dont think im gonna do it...especially if it is not a decent ride over small bumps....


You shouldn't do that because the GR2 dampers are way too weak for the GCs. You need to get AGX if you want to run GCs. The problem is not the car, but your choice of dampers.

Originally posted by uclandru
I have done the intrax thing, and it was how Glen described that railroad track example. I want the lowered look but I want a decent ride....*sigh* arent there any good springs for our p10 Gs?? is HKS any good?

Well, once again, yes. Get the AGX and GCs. While GC recommends 340/250 for the P10. I had 340/275 and didn't much care for it. It was really jiggly. I switched to 275/200 and raised the ride height a little from where I had it with the 340/275 and it is pretty damned good. It does bottom once in a while, but I need to get some Koni bumpstops. I think that will settle all of my ride issues.

Originally posted by drockg20
how hard is it to install a GC/AGX in a P10. What tools and what advice or tricks can you tell me?

It's essentially the same as removing and installing stock springs and shocks. To make it even easier, you can buy a set of top mounts for the rear shocks. This way, you can assemble the rear AGX shock, and GC spring/coilover assembly without having to disassemble the stock rear spring/shock assembly. If you do this, you won't even need a spring compressor. You do not need to buy the upper mounts for the fronts as GC provides you with a new upper mount which gives about 3/4"+ additional suspension travel.

I ordered the AGX shocks and GC coilover kit from Ground Control. I also ordered their progressive rate bumpstops and asked them to install the coilover collars onto the shocks for me. I think these extra few things cost me about another $100 or so, but it was a HUGE timesaver. Since I had everything I needed to put together all 4 AGX/GC shock/spring assemblies, it was a very simple matter of removing the stock assemblies and replacing them with the GC/AGX assemblies.

If you do not buy the rear upper mount, then you will need a spring compressor so that you can take apart the rear spring/shock assembly to use your old upper mount.

Another essential tool is an impact wrench. I bought a Dewalt electric impact wrench which was VERY handy to have around.

Removing and reinstalling the shock/spring assemblies on a P10 is a very straightforward, basic procedure that is easily done by 1 person (with the right tools) in about 2-4 hours for a novice.

Another thing... when you are installing the GC coilover collars onto the shocks, make sure you wrap the shock with duct tape before slipping the coilover collars on. This will prevent squeaks and rattles, etc. In my case, GC had used masking tape. When I got mine, I added more masking tape to make the collar fit on the shock body VERY VERY tight. Despite the fact that I used weak, lame ass masking tape, I have had this set up for about a year and a half and have not heard one single squeak, rattle, or any problems with this set up.

Glen

Glen

will i have intrax springs, yet stock shock in back and KYB/AGX in front what do you recommend. when i install the GC in my car?

Andrew,

The P10 is not a bad car to lower unless you go crazy and slam it (which isn't a good idea in Westwood -- I know, I used to live there). You should really come out to one of our SoCal SERCA events and get some rides. I have a P10 w/ the GC/GAB with the 340/250 springs and you're more than welcome to get a ride in it. I think Don's still working at UCLA so you can always bum a ride on his P11 w/ the kick ass Koni setup (yes Don, I'm jealous of your Koni setup!!). I'm in Westwood every so often so let me know if you're interested in getting a ride in my P10.

Gil

Originally posted by NismoP10
Andrew,

I think Don's still working at UCLA so you can always bum a ride on his P11 w/ the kick ass Koni setup (yes Don, I'm jealous of your Koni setup!!). I'm in Westwood every so often so let me know if you're interested in getting a ride in my P10.

Gil

Can this apply for me too?? I really need a ride in a koni setup P11 to see if i like it........what is don's handle?? Id like to contact him........

Originally posted by drockg20
Glen

will i have intrax springs, yet stock shock in back and KYB/AGX in front what do you recommend. when i install the GC in my car?

It would be best to replace shocks/springs at all 4 corners. But, I can tell you that when I first installed my GC/AGx combo, I had intially left the stock shock + eibach springs in the rear with the upgraded GC/AGX set up in front. Suprisingly, this set up had practically stock ride quality. It was a very supple set up overall. However, I don't know if it would be good for handling or safe in the long term because of the very significant difference in spring and dampening rates from front to rear. But, again, I was shocked at how smoothly the car rode. When I installed the rear GC/AGX spring/shocks, I was a little disappointed that some of the ride quality was lost.


Glen

Originally posted by uclandru
so in conlusion...the g20 is not a good car to lower compared to other imports? I was considering the GC/KYB Gr2 setup, but I dont think im gonna do it...especially if it is not a decent ride over small bumps....I have done the intrax thing, and it was how Glen described that railroad track example. I want the lowered look but I want a decent ride....*sigh* arent there any good springs for our p10 Gs?? is HKS any good?

IMO, I have to say I've had lots of difficulty finding a good suspension set up for my P10 compared to ALL the other Nissans I've owned. I think the P10 has a really nice stock suspension and it is hard to improve on it without sacraficing driveability. Compared to my 2 Zs, earlier Maxima and my brother's 240SX, the P10 does not provide as good of a balance between ride quality and handling when lowered. For my other Nissans, I was able to lower the cars significantly and yet sacrafice VERY LITTLE ride quality. In fact, the ride quality of one of my Zs actually got SMOOTHER when lowered with Eibach springs paired to the stock shocks.

The main problem with P10s is not necessarily because there isn't a good set of springs. The problem is the lack of suspension travel. So, when you are starting with just a few inches of suspension travel in the first place, ANY spring that lowers your car an additional inch to 2 inches will just KILL the ride quality because you will bottom out. This is one reason why the GC/AGX set up works well. Despite having spring rates that are 2x stiffer than stock and significantly stiffer than Intrax, Eibach, etc., the GC/AGX ride quality is bearable over practically all types of roads even with my 17" wheels and 205-40 series tires. The 2 things the GC/AGX set up has are:

1. increased suspension travel via the GC upper mount. This upper mount gives back about 3/4 - 1" of suspension travel over stock so when you lower your car 1", you are not losing ANY suspension travel. If you lower your car 1.5", you are only giving up .5" of suspension travel.

2. MUCH higher spring rate. Geo runs 275 lb/in springs up front, Gil has 340s, and I run 300 lb/in front springs on my G20. These rates are all a good 150 - 200 lbs/in stiffer than stock. This helps tremendously in keeping the car from bottoming out. Although the stiff spring rate makes the car feel "jiggly" at times, it is what makes it possible for me to blast through those railroad tracks at full speed.

So, in summary, unless you go fully custom with shocks specifically valved to your car, with shortened shock bodies and a thicker shaft, with a dual adjustable spring set up (softer tender spring and stiffer main spring), you will not be able to lower your car 1.5-2" and still maintain stock ride quality. The GC/AGX is definitely firmer than stock, but it is much more useable and liveable on a daily basis than using Intrax or Eibach springs on a P10 regardless of what type of shocks you decide to use. On my set up, I've had my car lowered at various times between 1" to 2" lower than stock. The ride quality did not change much between these 2 settings.

Glen

First of all thanks George for your response, I know that youve been saying all along that the GC/AGX setup was the best, but I did not know that the GR2's were not good, I wish I had known before i invested in them. If I could have done it all over again, I would NOT have invested in my intrax/KYB GR2 setup, all I got from it was a dented oil pan, and complaints from my dad and boss as to how crappy my ride was.

The thing is, I really loved the look of my car when it was on intrax. I hate my car's ride height now, so the plan is to invest $$ in a one shot deal where I do the suspension right. I figure GC/AGX and new bumpstops (KONIs?) are the way to go.....I didnt even know that bumpstops were manufactured by different companys....are KONIs the best? total would be about a grand right? I guess next summer......

Originally posted by NismoP10
I'm in Westwood every so often so let me know if you're interested in getting a ride in my P10.

Gil thanks, maybe I will take you up on that in the near future! I may just have to come out to one of your SERCA events too.....

Originally posted by Glen


I think the P10 has a really nice stock suspension and it is hard to improve on it without sacraficing driveability.
I think so too, lately Ive gotten compliments on how nice my car rides.


The main problem with P10s is not necessarily because there isn't a good set of springs. The problem is the lack of suspension travel
1. increased suspension travel via the GC upper mount. This upper mount gives back about 3/4 - 1" of suspension travel over stock so when you lower your car 1", you are not losing ANY suspension travel. If you lower your car 1.5", you are only giving up .5" of suspension travel.


I guess I really dont understand this concept. How does the mount give back travel? Also on another related topic, how does the bumpstop play into suspension travel, and when or why should I replace my stock bumpstops?

Originally posted by uclandru

I guess I really dont understand this concept. How does the mount give back travel? Also on another related topic, how does the bumpstop play into suspension travel, and when or why should I replace my stock bumpstops?

I've posted some pictures of the GC/AGX set up here:

http://y42.photos.yahoo.com/alterzgo

Look in the G20 AGXGC folder. The upper mount is shown clearly in photos 5 and 6.

As you can see, the GC upper mount is a completely flat circle - sorta looks like a gigantic washer. On the other hand, the stock upper mount, instead of being flat, is shaped concave like a bowl. Look under the hood of your car and check out where the front suspension mounts to the top of the shock tower and you will see what I am talking about. The upper mount is not flat and flush but protrudes downwards. Since the GC upper mount is completely flat and does NOT protrude down, it essentially gives you extra suspension travel. The shocks shaft is attached to the GC upper mount about 3/4 - 1" HIGHER than where it would attach to the bowl shaped stock upper mount (attached to the "bottom" of the bowl area. The amount of the extra suspension travel you gain is the difference between where the shock shaft mounts to the FLAT GC upper mount vs. where the shock shaft mounts to the BOWL shaped stock upper mount.

With respect to bumpstops, it is a very vital part of your suspension system. Bumpstops act as a stiffer spring what keeps you from damaging your shock at the end of your suspension travel. So, when your suspension is about to bottom out, instead of crashing hard onto metal on metal parts, it will first compress the rubber bump stops and soften the impact of bottoming out. As the stock bumpstops are made of hard rubber, it FEELS like a hard thump when you bottom out.

There are more sophisticated bumpstops such as the ones sold by GC. There's a picture of one of those bumpstops in photos 1 and 7 (the yellow piece sitting on the shock shaft). These bumpstops compress in a progressive manner, ie. gets stiffer and stiffer as you squeeze them flatter. They seem to be made out of similar material used in the shock of one of my old mountain bikes. So I think they act the same way. Unlike the solid stock rubber bumpstops, these are made with tiny air pockets within which allows the bumpstop to be easily compressed initially. As you compress the bumpstop, the air pockets disappear and the bump stop becomes firmer the further it is compressed.

IMO, the ones supplied by GC are rather small and I wonder how truly effective they are. On race car suspensions, I've seen bumpstops made out of similar material which are several inches long. But, I have to say that since I got my GC/AGX set up, I do not recall ever bottoming out my suspension. I'm pretty sure I have, but the bottoming out does not feel nearly as harsh as it did with my eibach/stock shock set up.

If you are using the GC/AGX set up, use their bumpstops. If you are using lowering springs such as intrax or eibach, you *MUST* trim the bumpstops. The bumpstop is made of 2 sections. A hard solid rubber section and another ribbed accordion like section. Trim of a piece of the hard rubber section by cutting it horizontally (like cutting a bagel in half). This will give you a small amount of suspension travel back (similar in concept to using the GC upper mounts). If you do not do this, you will lose that bit of added suspension travel and your car will bottom out more frequently.

Glen

Oh yeah... MERRY X-MAS everybody!!!

Originally posted by uclandru
First of all thanks George for your response, I know that youve been saying all along that the GC/AGX setup was the best, but I did not know that the GR2's were not good, I wish I had known before i invested in them. If I could have done it all over again, I would NOT have invested in my intrax/KYB GR2 setup, all I got from it was a dented oil pan, and complaints from my dad and boss as to how crappy my ride was.

The thing is, I really loved the look of my car when it was on intrax. I hate my car's ride height now, so the plan is to invest $$ in a one shot deal where I do the suspension right. I figure GC/AGX and new bumpstops (KONIs?) are the way to go.....I didnt even know that bumpstops were manufactured by different companys....are KONIs the best? total would be about a grand right? I guess next summer......

Andrew,

I went through the same things you did, except I wasted even MORE money. I tried GAB shocks (about $750 a set), brand new OEM shocks (about $700 a set) and also tried 2 sets of eibach springs (one set I cut 1/2 a coil off - *NEVER* do this). Now, imagine using the above components along with the stock springs and trying out every possible permutation. Yup, I had my suspension system in and out of my car a whole bunch of times. Despite spending about $2K, I could NEVER find the correct balance of ride vs. handling.

Thanks to a guy named Kyle who was able to get Ground Control to prototype a set up on his car, I finally bit the bullet and spent ANOTHER $900 to buy the GC/AGX set up I had today. Total amt I spent on my suspension system was about $3K not counting the time and labor of removing and re-installing the suspension system and the alignments I paid for after each time.

Trust me and learn from my own expensive experimenting. The GC/AGX set up is about as ideal as you can get for a P10 without dumping even bigger bucks into a fully custom set up. With the GC/AGX set up, you can lower your car more than with the Intrax springs and still maintain a fair amount of suspension travel, or you can lower your car about 1" and have full stock suspension travel. When I go skiing in the winter, I raise my car back up to stock height and thrown on the stock rims with chains. Having a ride height adjustable suspension kicks ass. Frankly, I would've been perfectly willing to spend even more money for a nicer riding set up. The problem was the logistical difficulty in dealing with companies such as Truechoice and Shocktek and having to give them suspension measurements, sending off your stock suspension components for a few months and then waiting and waiting as they leisurely worked on your custom set up.

Glen

OKAY, I think i understand the suspension travel and bumpstop concept now..thanks Glen! Now just for my own info, why is the GR2 shock weaker than the AGX? I was under the false impression that the only difference was that they were adjustable..or is that the whole deal, meaning that you can adjust the "strength" of the shock, in other words the ability to absorb a stiffer spring rate?

Originally posted by uclandru
OKAY, I think i understand the suspension travel and bumpstop concept now..thanks Glen! Now just for my own info, why is the GR2 shock weaker than the AGX? I was under the false impression that the only difference was that they were adjustable..or is that the whole deal, meaning that you can adjust the "strength" of the shock, in other words the ability to absorb a stiffer spring rate?

Yes. That's correct.

Go back to my message about dampening. Basically, the job of the shock is to dampen the movement of the spring. If you didn't have a shock your car would just bounce up and down endlessley when you hit a bump in the road.

The AGX shocks not only have adjustable dampening, but even on the softest setting the dampening is MUCH firmer than the GR2s which has essentially the same amount of dampening as a stock shock. As I mentioned before, when a shock has firmer dampening, it is VERY hard to compress (compression stroke) or pull out (rebound stroke). Again, if you can play with a stock shock - especially a rear stock shock, you can easily pull the shaft out and push the shaft in due to the *low* amount of dampening. On the other hand, if you can get your hand on a set of AGX shocks, you will find that, even when set on the "1" softest setting, it is still very hard to compress or pull the shock shaft out. It is precisely this stronger dampening force that allows the AGX shocks to control the much stiffer GC springs.

Think about it like this. With a stock 120 lb/in spring, when it is compressed, then allowed to rebound (expand), there is x amount of force released as the spring rebounds. When you upgrade to a GC spring that is rated at 300 lb/in, that spring when compressed, will rebound with MUCH MUCH more force than the stock 120 lb/in spring. Since the stock shock has very little rebound dampening, if you paired GC springs with stock shocks, your car will ride like a car without any shocks at all, ie. it will bounce up and down and oscillate endlessly. When you pair the GC spring with AGX shocks, the much stiffer rebound dampening of the AGX shock will control the rebound of the GC spring and keep your car from oscillating over and over again.

Glen

Originally posted by slickkedar


Can this apply for me too?? I really need a ride in a koni setup P11 to see if i like it........what is don's handle?? Id like to contact him........

Oops, I wasn't following this thread too closely! Yes, I still work at UCLA but I vanpool so I don't drive to campus too often. Email me offlist and maybe we can all meet up at a SERCA event or something or when I drive to work.

Don McLaurin

How much does the GC/AGX combo usually cost?

I got a set of brand new ground controls in the box for sale. It's for the P11 running stock shocks. I just ordered it, and decided to get the TEIN's. It's complete, and comes with the front upper mounts too. I'll pay for shipping. If you're interested, just mail me at [email protected], I'll send you the pictures of everything included.

I got a P10, and i'm waiting to get some money together after winter time is when i wanna pick up some coilovers.