96 Civic EX
jjtackleberry
12-10-2001, 06:44 PM
I'm not sure I understand the "offset" for wheels. How much of a offset does a 1996 Civic EX need or not need.
Thanks
Thanks
xivera
12-10-2001, 07:21 PM
I think it's +30 to 45.
Dammit... I forget...
Dammit... I forget...
Dezoris
12-10-2001, 09:13 PM
Here you go, I do a many tech topics but this piece from
IntegraR0064 is fucking awesome so here it is!!
By the way the prefrerred Civic offset is 43 or 45.
Wheel offset is not understood by many people, even though its actually a fairly simple concept. And its an important one that lots of people (including wheel retailers) mess up. So know it, and know it well .
So...what is offset anyway?
Your rim is basically a metal cylinder, with some spokes and a mounting surface inside the cylinder. The offset is the distance between the centerline of the wheel and the spokes/mounting surface. I could make you a picture, but it would be ugly and I like the one on the tire rack site (www.tirerack.com), so here it is:
So if you had a zero offset wheel, the spokes and mounting surface would be right in the center of the cylinder. You've probably noticed most cars have the mounting surface right near the outside edge of the cylinder though, and thats because most cars nowadays (and ALL hondas/acuras) have a positive offset. Moving the mounting surface towards the outside edge of the rim is a positive offset. Recessing it into the rim farther than the centerline is also seen sometimes on rear wheel drive cars, although rarely. Thats called a negative offset.
How to find the "right" offset
The correct offset basically depends on four things...the wheel well size, stock offset, stock rim/tire width, and the size of the new rims/tires you're getting. The first three are taken care of by what type of car you have...so basically the two main factors are what type of car you have and how big the new rims and tires are.
You want to have an offset that's as close to your stock offset as possible. However, to fit different width wheels in, changing the offset is usually necessary to make the new rims fit. So, the closest to stock as possible, while still letting the wheel fit in the wheel well, is the perfect offset.
The BEST way to find out a good offset for your rims is to call a reputable wheel seller and ask. The only wheel retailer that I have seen do a really good job with matching offsets to vehicles is tire rack. I'd guess that discount tire direct (www.tires.com) would do a good job with it too, since they are a large retailer of wheels also, but I don't know for sure. Wheel Options (www.wheeloptions.com) does a decent job too, you can call them also.
Another good idea is to ask about it here, I know quite a few offsets that work for different conditions, and I'm sure other people have had experience with offset also. And read through the inevitable responses, there's bound to be someone in a similar situation asking the same question as you.
Why you want the right offset
Why it can't be too low: First of all, making your offset lower than it needs to be puts more stress on a lot of components, including but not limited to your ball joints, wheel bearings, and control arm bushings. This is because you're extending how far the mounting surface is from the car...giving it more leverage so to speak. This is like if your pushing down on the end of a stick and then you extend the stick...it's going to break much easier. Another thing that's changed is the scrub radius (also called king-pin offset or steering axis offset). Its basically the distance from the tire to the steering axis. If you change this enough, to put it basically your car will handle unpredictably, especially when hitting bumps or potholes. Having too low of an offset also messes with your steering. The main effect is increased steering effort, although your tracking and overall handling are affected. This is because your track width is made wider (a little more on this later).
Why it can't be too high: Having too high of an offset really only causes problems in that the rim is too far in and will have clearance problems with things like your brake caliper, suspension components, etc.
With both excessive positive and negative offset, there is the main problem...which is rubbing. If your offset is too low, your tires will stick out of the fender well and rub on the fender lip. If its too high, you'll rub on the inside of the wheel well or various suspension components. And the lower your car is, the more you have to worry about rubbing.
What to do if your offset is wrong
Now, what to do if your offset is wrong, i.e. you're rubbing with reasonable sizes of rims and tires and a reasonable ride height. Obviously if you try and stick some 14" wide rims on there with insanely wide tires you're going to rub no matter what you do. Same with when you lower 2 feet...you're going to rub (although it may be on the ground before it happens in your wheel wells ).
If your offset is too high, you can buy wheel spacers that extend your wheel out and will fix the problem. That’s the best way to fix having an offset that’s too high. If the offset is too low, which means your wheel sticks out under your fender…then that’s more of a problem. If your offset is too low and you try to lower a substantial amount you will rub. The best thing to do here is to roll your fender. You can have this done at any body shop…or you can do it yourself, it’s not hard. All you need is a baseball bat . I could explain how, but this site explains it better than I can with pictures so here’s a link:
http://integra.vtec.net/wheels/rollfender.html
But you can only roll your fender so much…and if you’re still rubbing but you want to be as low as possible the best way to deal is using an adjustable coilover suspension. That way you can get as low as possible through trial and error. Having higher spring rates and higher dampening settings on the shocks helps too. If you still want to go lower…you’re going to have to buy new rims with a higher offset.
So for tuning purposes...would there be any benefits to playing with offset?
Not really...when you consider all the disadvantages. One benefit of having your offset too low is less lateral weight transfer. As you may remember, your track width is increased with lower offset, and since the car weight and CG (center of gravity) height stay constant, that'll mean reduced lateral weight transfer. The LWT is how much weight transfers from inside to outside wheels during cornering...and you want as little as possible.
Do I suggest tuning by changing offset? Absolutely not. Controlling weight transfer is better handled by changing suspension components or lowering and/or lightening the car. But its an effect you should know about.
One last thing...DON'T just assume that they will give you the right offset. It happens way too often that people post talking about how they got the wrong offset...and this causes a lot of problems. It limits severely your choices for what you're doing with your suspension and in extreme cases makes your handling adversely affected in a big way.
That should pretty much be it. Hope that helps some people out.
IntegraR0064 is fucking awesome so here it is!!
By the way the prefrerred Civic offset is 43 or 45.
Wheel offset is not understood by many people, even though its actually a fairly simple concept. And its an important one that lots of people (including wheel retailers) mess up. So know it, and know it well .
So...what is offset anyway?
Your rim is basically a metal cylinder, with some spokes and a mounting surface inside the cylinder. The offset is the distance between the centerline of the wheel and the spokes/mounting surface. I could make you a picture, but it would be ugly and I like the one on the tire rack site (www.tirerack.com), so here it is:
So if you had a zero offset wheel, the spokes and mounting surface would be right in the center of the cylinder. You've probably noticed most cars have the mounting surface right near the outside edge of the cylinder though, and thats because most cars nowadays (and ALL hondas/acuras) have a positive offset. Moving the mounting surface towards the outside edge of the rim is a positive offset. Recessing it into the rim farther than the centerline is also seen sometimes on rear wheel drive cars, although rarely. Thats called a negative offset.
How to find the "right" offset
The correct offset basically depends on four things...the wheel well size, stock offset, stock rim/tire width, and the size of the new rims/tires you're getting. The first three are taken care of by what type of car you have...so basically the two main factors are what type of car you have and how big the new rims and tires are.
You want to have an offset that's as close to your stock offset as possible. However, to fit different width wheels in, changing the offset is usually necessary to make the new rims fit. So, the closest to stock as possible, while still letting the wheel fit in the wheel well, is the perfect offset.
The BEST way to find out a good offset for your rims is to call a reputable wheel seller and ask. The only wheel retailer that I have seen do a really good job with matching offsets to vehicles is tire rack. I'd guess that discount tire direct (www.tires.com) would do a good job with it too, since they are a large retailer of wheels also, but I don't know for sure. Wheel Options (www.wheeloptions.com) does a decent job too, you can call them also.
Another good idea is to ask about it here, I know quite a few offsets that work for different conditions, and I'm sure other people have had experience with offset also. And read through the inevitable responses, there's bound to be someone in a similar situation asking the same question as you.
Why you want the right offset
Why it can't be too low: First of all, making your offset lower than it needs to be puts more stress on a lot of components, including but not limited to your ball joints, wheel bearings, and control arm bushings. This is because you're extending how far the mounting surface is from the car...giving it more leverage so to speak. This is like if your pushing down on the end of a stick and then you extend the stick...it's going to break much easier. Another thing that's changed is the scrub radius (also called king-pin offset or steering axis offset). Its basically the distance from the tire to the steering axis. If you change this enough, to put it basically your car will handle unpredictably, especially when hitting bumps or potholes. Having too low of an offset also messes with your steering. The main effect is increased steering effort, although your tracking and overall handling are affected. This is because your track width is made wider (a little more on this later).
Why it can't be too high: Having too high of an offset really only causes problems in that the rim is too far in and will have clearance problems with things like your brake caliper, suspension components, etc.
With both excessive positive and negative offset, there is the main problem...which is rubbing. If your offset is too low, your tires will stick out of the fender well and rub on the fender lip. If its too high, you'll rub on the inside of the wheel well or various suspension components. And the lower your car is, the more you have to worry about rubbing.
What to do if your offset is wrong
Now, what to do if your offset is wrong, i.e. you're rubbing with reasonable sizes of rims and tires and a reasonable ride height. Obviously if you try and stick some 14" wide rims on there with insanely wide tires you're going to rub no matter what you do. Same with when you lower 2 feet...you're going to rub (although it may be on the ground before it happens in your wheel wells ).
If your offset is too high, you can buy wheel spacers that extend your wheel out and will fix the problem. That’s the best way to fix having an offset that’s too high. If the offset is too low, which means your wheel sticks out under your fender…then that’s more of a problem. If your offset is too low and you try to lower a substantial amount you will rub. The best thing to do here is to roll your fender. You can have this done at any body shop…or you can do it yourself, it’s not hard. All you need is a baseball bat . I could explain how, but this site explains it better than I can with pictures so here’s a link:
http://integra.vtec.net/wheels/rollfender.html
But you can only roll your fender so much…and if you’re still rubbing but you want to be as low as possible the best way to deal is using an adjustable coilover suspension. That way you can get as low as possible through trial and error. Having higher spring rates and higher dampening settings on the shocks helps too. If you still want to go lower…you’re going to have to buy new rims with a higher offset.
So for tuning purposes...would there be any benefits to playing with offset?
Not really...when you consider all the disadvantages. One benefit of having your offset too low is less lateral weight transfer. As you may remember, your track width is increased with lower offset, and since the car weight and CG (center of gravity) height stay constant, that'll mean reduced lateral weight transfer. The LWT is how much weight transfers from inside to outside wheels during cornering...and you want as little as possible.
Do I suggest tuning by changing offset? Absolutely not. Controlling weight transfer is better handled by changing suspension components or lowering and/or lightening the car. But its an effect you should know about.
One last thing...DON'T just assume that they will give you the right offset. It happens way too often that people post talking about how they got the wrong offset...and this causes a lot of problems. It limits severely your choices for what you're doing with your suspension and in extreme cases makes your handling adversely affected in a big way.
That should pretty much be it. Hope that helps some people out.
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