all the how-tos are WRONG!!!

I did a multiport conversion and i used these dumb ass how-tos to do the wiring. Well my car wont start now and i think i know why. The how-tos are WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!

I was looking at my chiltons manual and i noticed that the how-tos are totally screwed up. Like this dumb shit from the SCC how-to: "...run a yellow wire from the No. 4 injector to A7 on the ECU." What?!? A7 feeds the resistor box (yel/blk wire)! Who whote this bullshit?? For the distributor wiring, its more than just moving two wires. Most of the DX and Si wiring go to TOTALLY DIFFERENT PLACES! Heres some more how-to bullshit: "Move the wire that goes to pin C1 to pin B10, and move the wire that feeds pin C2 to pin B12." Wrong again. C1 should go to B15 and C2 stays where it is, unless u have an ECU from a non-A/C car, where it should go to B2. So, heres the REAL how-to.

Injector wiring:
Run brown wire from #1 injector directly to pin A1 at ECU.
Red wire (#2) to pin A2 at ECU.
Blu wire (#3) to pin A3 at ECU.
Yel wire (#4) to pin A4 at ECU.
Pin A7 (yel/blk wire from main injector) feeds your resistor box, which powers your fuel injectors. The brown, red, blue, and yellow wires go to the ECU where they are grounded, completing the circuit.

Distributor wiring:
Move pin C1 (org) to pin B15.
Move pin C2 (org/blu) to B2, unless u have A/C.
Move pin C9 (wht) to pin B16.
Blu/Grn from cyl sensor goes to pin C1.
Blu/Yel from cyl sensor goes to pin C9.

The rest of the how-tos are basically correct. I still dont get how u all got ur multipoint conversions done. Unless the chiltons manual is wrong. :uhoh:

I'm pretty sure a few people on here have used that How-To with no problems.
Maybe 1 of them will view this post and reply...

i have noticed the chiltons manual to be wrong at times, but plenty of peeps here have done the mpfi swap before, maybe you just crossed something so thats why your car aint starting now.

i dont usually trust a chiltons for wiring, only a helms, but i've known a few people that used the mpfi guides and they worked fine, like fourthgenhatch did and he made his own writeup for it.

btw, are you sure your looking on the ecu plugs right? like how the numbering goes

1357
2468 etc.

Yeah i know how the numbering for the ECU pins goes..what started to make me suspect that the how-tos were wrong was when i looked to where the old wire that went to C2 went to its new location... it went to some A/C thingy. Then i started comparing the DX vs the Si wiring diagrams and most of the distributor wiring was different. It kinda makes sense now why my car wont start. I wonder what HASport has to say about this.

I used 6 different "How-To's" and had no problems accept when it came to my cyl. wires. My advice to you would be to wire Brown, Yellow, and Red wires to the ecu and blue to the shock tower. I only say this because it is the only way I got my car to run perfect. And also I would soldier every single connection, especially those going to the ecu. If you have a diagram pinout of the ecu use it, and make sure you are not reading them backwards. I knew a guy who did this and it only caused him more confusion.

chiltons is far from perfect... they didn't even get the firing order right on the Miata book...

Yeah i think i heard something about three wires going directly to the ECU. I am still worried about the distributor wiring because theres alot of wires that are different. Also, i cant shift out of park anymore without putting the key in the shifter release.

Does anyone have the Helms manual? Someone should check into this...i seriously dont trust the how-tos anymore.

The only thing that I questioned was the "How To" on fourthgenhatch.com saying that the view of the wire would be from "the harness side with the wires coming out of it" To me, what I experienced was the exact opposite of that. To me it shoud read "the side you are looking at is the ECU side, with the wires coming out of the back" other than that, I had no real problems.

I will say that when I did my wiring, I actually opened up the factory harness and removed the primary and secondary injector wiring and replace them with factory injector wiring that I pulled from an Si harness. I also ran factory wires for the other two injectors to a plug that I mounted on the driver side shock tower. I also ran my cylinder position sensor wires to that same spot, they actually run through the plastic thing that goes along the fuel rail to get to that point. I then ran four wires from that plug to the ECU and connected everything at the ECU the way that the "how to's" stated. I only ran shielded wire from the CPS to the plug on the shock tower and ran Rockford Fosgate speaker wire from that point to the ECU.

I am kind of curious about the whole A/C wire that it suppossedly removes, does anybody have a Helm's ECU pinout that they can post up, I have been wanting a good diagram of the whole electrical system because I have a Haynes manual.

peace
Griff

I also looked at like 6 different how-tos that all said the same thing. I did what they said and my car started right up and still runs perfect. I have a/c in my car and I just tried it and it works with no problems.

One of the how-tos says to move pin C2 to pin B12 unless u have A/C...then where does it go? And then the shifter part...why doesnt it shift out of park anymore? Gonna pick up the Helms manual at the library tommorow...im gonna check all the wires that are affected by a MPFI swap and pretty much re-do all my wiring. Ill let u guys know what happens.

One of the how-tos says to move pin C2 to pin B12 unless u have A/C...then where does it go? And then the shifter part...why doesnt it shift out of park anymore? Gonna pick up the Helms manual at the library tommorow...im gonna check all the wires that are affected by a MPFI swap and pretty much re-do all my wiring. Ill let u guys know what happens.

I have never read a how to that stated not to use B12 on A/C equipped cars. I have only read that most cars are empty and pins B10 and B12, although some models have a wire at B12. Man, I hope you can get this all figured out, I know it has to be really frustrating.

peace
Griff

Are you sure you are using the correct ecu?

Dood, I could do that swap in my sleep, and I can say that wires A1,3,5,7 definitely go to the injectors, and that the wire that goes to the resistor box comes directly out of the main connector at the strut tower. I will post a pic of which wire to use, if you want. The wires at C10 and 12 go to the white and orange wires that get cut off B1 and 2. The wires left at B1 and 2 get lengthened out and run directly up to the dizzy for the TDC and Cylinder position sensor. That's really all there is to it. You have to lengthen some of the connectors on some harnesses, but it's generally not that bad... You do have to take into account that the wiring on the Si and Dx are not the same on the diagrams, and you have to use the Si diagrams uniquely, since you are converting to the Si/ZC ECU configuration... If you have any questions, email me directly at [email protected] Good luck!

I think its some kenji mpfi how-to that says some models have a wire at pin B12, and then some other how-to says if u have a wire at pin B12 thats one less wire u have to move, which just adds to the confusion. Its been like a week since i started the swap...i thought it would take a day at the most! :screwy:

As for the ECU, i think the *ideal* one would be from a 90-91 civic ex auto, but these are hard to find used and are expensive from the dealer. The 88-89 teggy ECU is an easier find, and a lot of people use them in civics for MPFI/ZC swaps (albeit for 5-speed applications). The only thing about them i heard is ull be running a little rich, plus the mounting brackets are different.

OOPS! Did i have to use B1 and B2 for the cylinder sensor?? Crap. I used C1 and C2. :loser: Yeah i think the freakin chiltons manual is wrong too. I knew A1, A3, A5, and A7 were for the injectors until i looked at the chiltons. Hopefully i can straighten everything out when i get my hands on the Helms tommorow. Im going to compare the Teg vs Si ECU pinouts if i can find a Helms manual for the integra.

Oops, it's too late and i should think before I open my mouth. I reversed the letters. The B10 and 12 are empty, and get the white and orange ones that used to be at c1 and 2, while the remains of the c1 and 2 go to the diz. Sorry. didn't mean to confuse...

Also, the wire that exists at b12 on some models is just an empty wire that leads to nowhere up in the dash. the only reason that it is mentioned is so that you don't get worried about cutting it. The only place it can go with the Si ecu is to the diz. I don't know why they would say anything about A/C. I think that the ideal ecu is the PR4 from the obd0 2nd gen tegs. It gives you the rich fuel and high rpm curves that the tegs got. plus, it's in the right box for your floor panel. I personally am using the pg7 for now... seems to work fine. I hear that you can put it into the PM6 box, though...

http://www.binghamtonlife.com/manual/manual.htm

it's for crx but will do for most stuff

http://www.binghamtonlife.com/manual/2gsm/images/91-11-19.jpg

or

http://www.binghamtonlife.com/manual/2gsm/images/91-11-20.jpg

FYI, we had used and applied those instructions before...so i knew they were good before i added it to the site. i don't add bad how-to's ;)

God forbid someone out there isnt perfect.

Here's a site that MIGHT help with your trouble if you can make sense of it all:
http://drs.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=91+civic+si+pinout/v=2/SID=e/l=WS1/R=1/H=0/*-http://b16a.honda-perf.org/theswap.html
One thing appeared wierd on that link though. They list the 88 civic different from the 89-91 civic when it comes to wiring. It appears as though the wiring on an 88 civic is different then the later years. But I have NEVER heard of this before. I'm not sure how reliable this site is but I hope it will help. Also your wires may be slightly different because you have an automatic car and you have A/C. Those two things might be screwing you up.

what plug goes to the fast idle control solinoid?? it says its for the Sis only, so what wire would u use from a DX harness? anyone know :screwy:

http://www.binghamtonlife.com/manual/2gsm/images/91-11-89.jpg

what plug goes to the fast idle control solinoid?? it says its for the Sis only, so what wire would u use from a DX harness? anyone know :screwy:

http://www.binghamtonlife.com/manual/2gsm/images/91-11-89.jpg


I used the wires that were hooked up to the Tandon Valve Control Solenoid Valve on my STD. I just put a different plug on it. If I recall correctly, the wire were a different color, but I did it anyway. I don't have any codes, but my car does seem to idle faster than it used to, about 200 RPM's??? Even if I disconnect that plug, it does not have an effect on the idle, so I am not sure it is doing anything.

peace
Griff

My How-To must be correct because my car runs perfect and started up right away.

I have heard that the HASPORT instructions are wrong, and that is where SCC and a lot of other magazines got their info from. But its only like 1 wire being wrong. But still. I used Hybrid How-To to do mine and than wrote mine using theirs as a guide. And like I said my car runs so it can't be wrong.

The only thing that I questioned was the "How To" on fourthgenhatch.com saying that the view of the wire would be from "the harness side with the wires coming out of it" To me, what I experienced was the exact opposite of that. To me it shoud read "the side you are looking at is the ECU side, with the wires coming out of the back" other than that, I had no real problems.



What you are refering to is telling you what way you should look at the plug to get the pin #s correct. It has nothing to do with where the wiring is coming or going to.

What you are refering to is telling you what way you should look at the plug to get the pin #s correct. It has nothing to do with where the wiring is coming or going to.

I understand that...here is what you have on your site.

"But first here is a diagram of how the ECU pinouts are numbered, the side you are looking at would be the HARNESS side with the wires coming out of the back of it... "

and it shows all three pin-outs with the number one in the upper right hand corner. The problem is, if your looking at the "harness end" of the plugs, the number one spot is in the upper left hand corner. To me it should read...

But first here is a diagram of how the ECU pinouts are numbered, the side you are looking at would be the ECU side with the wires coming out of the back of it...

and if you look at the picture of the ECU with the plugs going into it, A1 is on the far right of the picture in the upper most pin location. I just think it is worded improperly by one word. Not nit-picking on knowledge or anything like that. I just think to some, it might get them confused. I think you have a great site with a plethera of great information.

Does anybody else see what I mean, or am I just crazy?? :screwy:

http://www.fourthgenhatch.com/index2.html

peace
Griff

ok well im in the same boat u started of at man...i need to see the ecu pin-out diagram for a 1990 civic si..if u have eny links or even could post a pic of it cause im doin my mini-me swap today an im gonna be wiring up the mpfi soon as i no which pin is whitch ...im lost with that ..thanx...im wirng from a 1990 civic dx..no a/c or power stearing!

for ecu pinouts, go to www.hondaswap.com and www.honda-perf.org.

There are lots of how-tos and pinout on both sites. Please be aware that you have to disregard the ecu pinout for the pm5 (DX) ecu. Forget about that you're not using that anymore. Only look at the pinouts for the PM6. If you just follow the how to on honda-perf.org, it works perfectly. I've used that on a dozen or more dpfi-mpfi swaps where they started on the first try. Just follow it step by step. If you're confused and you've been messing with it a lot, start over, and rewire from scratch. It will take some time, but you'll start out fresh.

idk what your talking about guy. i used the scc mpfi swap when i did my mpfi swap and my car worked perfectly the first start up. why are you running more wires to the ecu for the injectors, 2 of the wires are already there. you take the power for the stock 2 ijjectors and that runs your resistor box. then you gotta move the 2 wires from c to b and the 2 wires you gotta add to c go to yoru dist for the cps. all dist wiring will match in color.

i think you dont know how to read your chiltons manual

amazing, probably hundreds of people have done this wiring conversion with little to no problems (the few problems being installer error and not instruction error), but here we have tons of people arguing over which DIY repair manual has the right wiring diagrams. if you want the correct diagrams, look at the genuine honda service manuals. then take the instructions everyone has online and follow them. or get someone who did the conversion already to do it.

why are you running more wires to the ecu for the injectors, 2 of the wires are already there.


Umm, IMHO, new fresh wires > beat down, heat cracked 1988 wires....

I think I know how to read my chilton's fine, just follow the directions and look at the diagrams, and it will fire right up. I've done like 14, no problems yet.

hmm anyone else notice this thread was 2 years old?

hey 4gzchatch, i wasnt talking about you. i was talkign about the original post which turned out to be 2 years old so yeah. would be nice if the poster who brought it back from the dead, said they brought it back from the dead so im not trying to answer 2 year old posts.

Baumann_Yayo4G brought it back from the dead! :banghead:

Haha! Lol! I didn't realize it was that old... surprisingly, I remember the thread and thought it was more recent than that! Lol!

OLD THREAD, DEAD THREAD.... thank you..

<<PM5

The car still doesnt run, its sitting in my back yard.

One of the things you might want to check is the fuel pressure coming out of the fuel pressure regulator. You might want to check out your fuel rail because when i connected mine all together the fuel line holes didnt match up so i drilled a hole into the side of it and wow did i finally have fuel pressure. Funny thing is when i did my swap i found out a few things, if you have an original std civic with a 4spd. you will have to swap out the cam because the cam lobe lift is .120" off on total lift on both intake and exhaust. The other thing i ran into is the std cam's max lift was 7.5 degrees off so the result was my injectors were firing into closed valves. So i decided to take apart the head and all of the valvetrain and swap out the cams and port and polish the head. When i did this i ended up with my car going just as fast as a friends si that has a 1.6 sohc jdm zc engine with a five speed. I figured that was deffinetly a good amount of horsepower gain. And yes i did use the information off of this website.

i can not stand spam.

i can not stand scammers that say only call us for help if you are a paying customer.

i can not stand people who talk down on a free service to make $50.

SPAM REMOVED!

i will help you with this if it is still not running.