1989 Lesabre Noise Driving me Crazy!!

My Lesabre is a good car, it drives just great. It has lots of power, no performance loss with this problem.

It has an incessant rattle, when I try to locate where it is coming from, it sounds like it coming from everywhere. Like it echo's throughout the engine. Although it sometimes seems to come from the passenger side where the belt system is. It has one of those serpentine belts, the one piece runs all. I have changed the idler pulley, the belt, the power steering unit and pulley, water pump and water pump pulley, alternator, removed the metal spash guard under the engine all to no avail. I drive this car all over the place, it runs great, just this noise is driving me crazy.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, and help my nerves immensely!!

Diamond57

HOPE HOPE HOPE HOPE

Someone ' has ' answered you on this / that / your SUBJECT issue. I ' ve got almost the same EXACT issue with my 1995 LeSabre ; we ' ve changed , replace and re-replaced every belt and driven item on front side of engine, Still has that NOISE !! Mine sounds like someone ' banging a rubber hose / hammer somewhere on or near right front cover of engine. Buick folks LOST ; local Mechanical folks LOST and still noise drives me INSANE !!

Is it SAFE to drive ?? I keep driving and it keeps going but the NOISE is still there. I ' ve sort of been ' divorced 'from Buick and local Mechanical folks Shops due to money spent and still that NOISE is there and my wallet is empty.

IF one has told you any advice please allow my BRAIN their answer too !!

Please reply back MIGHT be both of ' US ' can find the correct answer.

NO NO NO it is not BUICK ' s answer of the harmonic balance with a rubber cone trying to discentergrate !!

And if if if it was a bearing it would of ' froze ' by now I ' ve got 105,000 + and its been doing this from 89,000.

Dogonastick

HONEST !!

If you can feel slippage when turning the balancer thats it. I had the same problem. Does it only do it at certain RPM ranges?

It does it when I start the car, and I am idling, but at higher speeds while driving, no noise whatsoever. Also, when I turn the car off, it gives one last resounding Ker-Klunk!!

However, last week, I lost power steering, I pulled into a parking lot, thought my belt broke. I opened the hood, and the belt wasn't broke, it was still around everything, but very slack, nothing was turning. Upon further inspection, the idler pulley (which I got at the junk yard), the plastic spindle had broke leaving just the center bearing. fortunately I still had the original one in the trunk, which there was nothing wrong with in the first place, but I replaced these things one at a time trying to track down this noise.

But, I went in and started the car BEFORE putting the other idler pulley back on, to see if the noise was still there when nothing on the belt system was turning..........LO AND BEHOLD....... The noise was STILL THERE. So, I might be wrong, but I am assuming since the car makes this horriffic noise whether the pulley's on the belt are turning or not, that it must be something that is NOT on the belt system.

I have spent all kinds of money trying to track this noise down, I just can't imagine what the heck it is. Every where I have taken it for an estimate, to see what's wrong with it, tells me that the cause, is something that I have already replaced. So, again I am at a loss.

It's hard to troubleshoot a noise on the internet but Ill give it a shot. First of all is it a grinding noise or a squeak or what. Is it RPM related? or is it it speed related? any type of info would help. Has anyone checked the CV Joints yet?

Andy.

My car DID the E-X-A-C-T thing it was the harmonic balancer.

Like the moderator mentioned earlier, it is very hard to diagnose on the internet. I think the noise is either from the crankshaft pulley or the timing chain has a lot of play causing the rattle. Another heavier rattle could be from the crankshaft bearings, but that would be easily detected at the shops that you have taken it to.
All the best.

It's hard to troubleshoot a noise on the internet but Ill give it a shot. First of all is it a grinding noise or a squeak or what. Is it RPM related? or is it it speed related? any type of info would help. Has anyone checked the CV Joints yet?

Andy.


It is a metal on metal clanking noise. You know how it sounds when a rod is knocking, like that, only alot louder. I had that checked too and its not that. As for RPM.Speed related, when I start the car it bangs like that, the more RPMS the less noise. When I am idling it makes noise all the time. When I accelerate, it quits and as long as I am driving along there is no noise, but slow down to idle, and there it is again.

Hope this helps me figure this out.

thanks for replying

The CV joints were replaces 11-14-03

I have an unbalanced fan behind my radiator on the driver side. Whenever this things starts or stops, it makes a 'rattling' sound. When driving, it is usually quiet, unless the ride is rough, then it seems to make more noise.

When shutting the vehicle off, I hear a final 'rattle-ther-cluck' come from it as it stops.

probably not your rattle, but you could have multiple.

have you checked your Cadillac converter thats whats wrong with mine i have a 89 buick lesaber limited and to get ride of the noise i just turn the radio up but if thats the problem you shouldnt worry.

I would have the timing chain checked. The way I look at it is when it's idleing your chain has all sorts of slack and is able to bouce around. Maybe it's a case of more engine speed you have the less the chain bangs around

I have a '90 LeSabre that is doing the same thing, I replaced the timing chain when the crank sensor went out but the noise is still there. The noise sounds like there is a bolt loose on the torque converter but all 3 bolts are tight. Guess I am as lost as everyone else is!

I would try the old "stick-to-the-ear" test, or "poor mans stethoscope". I was able to locate an odd "fluttering" noise on my Buick using this method. Just find a long stick, or tube and place one end on the engine somewhere where you think the noise is coming from, then put your ear against the rod/stick "near" the other end in your hand, press the side of the rod/stick to your ear...(NOTE don't put the end IN your ear). Believe it or not, the sound at the point where the rod/stick is touching the engine, will be carried through the stick. WARNING, careful putting the rod on the front part of the engine where the drivebelt is turning. I think we all know what potentially could happen with that!
My "fluttering" sound was coming from the solenoid attached to the charcol canister.

I am wondering if maybe it might be lack of oil pressure at idle and maybe a worn/sticky lifter? Loose/worn engine mount?

OKAY GUYS, LISTEN UP.

I have a 1988 Lesabre TType. The 3.8 is bolted to a TH440 tranny. This is a four speed WITH lockup. I went through all of this when I bought the car. I mean ALL of it. I replaced every single thing on the front of that motor, and it was still chattering...like it had no oil in it or something. I replaced the entire exhaust system, thinking a piece of rust was dancing around in the stock cat. That wasn't it either. I was at the point where I had this GREAT motor that haulled butt, but sounded like crap. IT WAS THE CHAIN IN THE TRANNY. Alot of FWD trannies have chains in them, and this one was stretched all to hell. THAT WAS THE NOISE. The thing is, the sound bounced off everything in that engine bay, so I couldn't zone in on it, even with a hose in my ear. I hope this gives you guys something new to consider.

My car DID the E-X-A-C-T thing it was the harmonic balancer.
I agree, almost certainly the harmonic balancer.

In addition, grab the belt between the alt, and ac and try to move it in both directions. If it moves, you may hear the clank as the balancer outer pulley slips around the rubber. If it does, you have found your problem. By the way, this pulley slides right off after removing the bolt, no puller needed. Not true on newer 3800, starting in about 94.

Mine was the harmonic balancer...

Yes, I also agree that it is the harmonic balancer. I took mine off and I could see that the metal arms had been hitting each other. Just to make sure before I plunked down more money, I put a ty wrap around the arms where I thought it was hitting, and the noise was a lot less, so I replaced it and the noise was gone.

I agree the two possibles are the chain in the tranny or the harmonic balancer. The balancer is easily damaged if taken off or put on wrong. Look over the passanger fender down at the balancer at idle. Does the balancer wobble? Manually push the throttle up to increase RPM's. Does the sound and wobble go away? If yes..I think you have your answer.

I would tend to go after the chain in the tranny,very common.

Just a little heads up for anyone that seems to be having similiar problems with the metalic rattling noise in their older Lesabres. I had the same noise come from mine and I could not detect exactly where it was comming from because it kept echoing throughout the engine bay. I feared that it was internal because I tried tightining everything and checked the pulleys, etc., but there was nothing to be found. :shakehead

I had a feeling it was the timing chain because my '89 T Type had just recently hit 150,000 miles and I know that around 130,000 miles and above that you should strongly consider changing the timining chain regardless of the fact if there's noise or not. I had also noticed my gas milage slowly growing poor and the T had lost it's pick-up BIG TIME. These signs, along with the rattling at low RPM's (not noticable while I was driving though), had me thinking it was the timing chain and, sure enough, the mechanic said I was exactly right. The chain was definetly getting ready to go. So, I had them go in and put a new chain, gears, cam button, etc.

$400 and a day later, my T was back and badder than ever! :jump3: It was the best money I'd ever spent because I noticed a dramatic difference in acceleration in my car. The pick up that it once had when I first bought it over 3 years ago was definetly back and I noticed a great improvement in gas milage. So, if your Lesabre is at or above 130,000 miles, I strongly suggest getting the chain replaced in order to prevent more seriouse problems to your motor in the future. For those of you who wish to do it yourselves, there's a great write up availabe at lesabret.com.

~Thanx, Mary :)

I had the exact same rattle on my 89 lesabre @ 165,000miles. Sounds like metal on metal, VERY LOUD! Took it to the buick dealer. It was the harmonic balancer. The part was $260.83. With labor and everything the total was $356.88.
Hope this helps

My 1995 LeSabre used to make a noise similar to what you describe. Using a stick I tracked down the source as the airconditioning compressor. Cost me about $400 to have it replaced. It solve my noise problem.

I'm glad you are here talking about the same problems as I'm hearing on my 95 LSS. Diamond57 describes the sound of my motor to the tee and Malibus experience with it is encouraging and seems very logical in my situation.

I was in traffic and felt bad for the guy in front of me until I realized it was my motor making the sound. The rattling/knocking problem came on suddenly and has the characteristic "kerchunk!" at startup and shutdown. Anything above 1100-1200 RPM renders the motor silent. Elimination of the supercharger, waterpump, power steering, a/c and idlers by systematic belt removal convinced me it wasn't an accessory and is crank pulley load related. Power steering and A/C are loads that exist on separate belts and can be applied at will and will affect the severity of the sound. Even without ANY belts on the motor, the "kerchunk" is there on startup and shutdown.

I can also see why an idler pulley would fail after running the motor this way for thousands of miles (if one could stand to). It seems the idler closest to the crank (about 3" away) pulley is getting a pretty good workout when the rattling is present. The rattle can be felt through a socket wrench applied to this tensioner.

I'll pull the balancer tonight, check it and post a reply when I verify this being the problem.

Thanks for your help,
Chad

Could be the balancer. Though, I've rarely seen them go bad. The 3300's had the problems with the balancer. It sounds like the guts in your catalytic converter are coming apart. Sometimes it'll sound like a nut in a tin can. Very common for this year vehicle.

Just an update for anyone curious. I had a bad rattle in the accessory area of my 95 Olds 88 LSS with the supercharged 3800 at idle. Removal of the belts would still indicate a problem with a clunking on motor startup and shutdown and a rap on the pulley would give a similar sounding "clunk". I eliminated the accessories as being the problem and focused on the balancer. Reading the posts on this site made me comfortable with the diagnosis so I orderd a new part.

Anyway the part arrived, is on the car and the sound is gone. A great thanks to the people out here for the posts and suggestions, they were a great help. I have a phobia about taking the car to the dealer since I'm a cheapskate. The balancer alone was around $250 from a dealership, I would have hated to see the total. Autozone didn't even carry this balancer since it was only used in 1995. I found this balancer online for $86 at a place in North Carolina called venture products. Very cheap and fast. I'd recommend them... ventureproducts.com.

Check my gallery, I posted a picture of the old balancer with it's rotted rubber component that led to the problem.

For the past year my ’89 Lesabre has been making a chattering noise that’s driving me crazy! It does it only when idling. However, it’s loudest during the first 2 seconds of start up and the second you turn it off. I don’t think it’s the balancer again. I’ve already been through that and replaced it two years ago (that produced a much more heavy and louder rattle than what I have now). My alternator, idler pulley, belt, and water pump are fairly new. I started the car with the belt off just to eliminate those things . . .still chatters. The exhaust was recently replaced, including the catalytic converter, so it’s not that. I secured the heat shields on the exhaust manifold with hose clamps so it’s not that either. Other than the rattle the engine runs GREAT! It has lots of power. I have a feeling it’s the chain in the transmission that people have been talking about.
Does anyone know how much it costs to have this chain replaced?
Any other ideas??
Thanks,
Matt

God bless this board!

My park ave '91 with 190k+ miles developed the noise tonight. read thru the posts, went outside and... my harmonic balancer had bits of rubber comig off...

it's very easy to see if you turn by hand the belt in one way or the other. -should I mention the engine shouldn't run when you're doing that??!?-

I'll try to change it asap!
A huge thanks to everyone posting here.


UPDATE:
went to the mechanic because the bolt holding the harmonic balancer was torqued like crazy (more than 400ftlbs!!). Also don't try to remove it without a puller (you need the one with 3 screws).
I'm a happy camper again!
thx again everyone (esp. Chad)

... my harmonic balancer had bits of rubber comig off...

it's very easy to see if you turn by hand the belt in one way or the otherI'll try to change it asap!

went to the mechanic because the bolt holding the harmonic balancer was torqued like crazy (more than 400ftlbs)

I have the same problem with my ’87 Park Avenue. There’re bits of rubber sticking out just under the pulley and the pulley can be turned by hand in both directions. When turned in either direction, you can only turn it about 30 degrees or so before it clicks on something metallic (not visible) and stops.

When you start or stop the engine, there is clunk noise that is quite loud. When idling, there is a scraping noise punctuated by metallic sounding clicks. At higher RPMs, there’s no noise at all. At first, I could swear that the Power Steering pump had a little guy in it pounding with a hammer to get out. I replaced it. No dice, same noise. Next, I bought a water pump but while I started to remove the old one, I saw the small pieces of rubber sticking out of the crankshaft pulley. That’s when I found that the pulley could be turned by hand before hitting some stops.

I’ll return the water pump since the old one isn’t leaking but after researching how to remove the CS pulley, I don’t think my air tools will loosen the bolt or that I can muscle it myself. There are some AC pipes that get in the way of doing it from the top of the engine even with a pipe extension on my bar. Now that I know what the problem is and that I’ll have to take it to a mechanic, I wonder what the ramifications are of driving the car the way it is. By the way, when the serpentine belt is off, the engine sounds great. No noise at all coming from anything.

Not knowing how the balancer is put together, I don’t know if the CS pulley will come loose and fall apart or if there is something that holds it together regardless of the rubber damping material. Based on some of the other posts, it seems that some people have driven for quite awhile as they tried to figure out where the noise was coming from. I could not find your picture of the defective balancer which, hopefully would show how it’s put together.

I’d appreciate any help offered since I need to use the car, at least for short trips.

The balancer has a locking ring to keep it from coming apart. Of course it is not a good idea to drive it like that, however, I have heard or people driving them for several years without any major ramifications. The balancer goes for around $100.00 and most any shop will install it for less than 100 bucks. If you have the money, do it!

on mine (91) the bolt holding the pulley was very tight. it should have been some 100ftlbs (on yours is double that), but the mechanic couldn't untighten with the 400ftlbs air wrench. then he went fot the 600 one (!!) and that did the job...
you also need a puller (the one with three long screws).
on mine I had access from the side (remove wheel and mud cover).
it's a half an hour job if the mechanic has the aforementioned tools handy.

drop me a pm if you want a pic with the old pulley.

good luck

Thanks johnd89 and HotZ28 for your prompt and helpful replies!

This forum is the best one I've found!

I have a 1988 Buick LeSabre and it started knocking like everyone is saying. It was the damper knocking, the rubber bonded into it had let go and this built in stop that it has does the knocking. Simple to check remove the serpentine belt and reach down an rock back and forth the pulley on the damper if it moves alot and it also makes that knock your talking about, then its replacment time. Its a $100.00 item at the parts store.

I have a 1988 Buick LeSabre and it started knocking like everyone is saying. It was the damper knocking, the rubber bonded into it had let go and this built in stop that it has does the knocking. Simple to check remove the serpentine belt and reach down an rock back and forth the pulley on the damper if it moves alot and it also makes that knock your talking about, then its replacment time. Its a $100.00 item at the parts store.

Exactly the same for my 87 Buick Park Avenue. I'm going to run it as is until it's convenient to get it fixed or the car craps out (whichever comes first). After replacing the PS pump (which was an innocent bystander), I was going to replace the water pump before I found that it too was not the problem. While trying to replace the water pump, I found that it was difficult to remove the (4) 6mm bolts connecting the pulley because there was not enough clearance between the shoulder of the pulley bracket and the bolt head to fit a socket. They have to be finessed by positioning the socket on an angle. Three of the bolts came off (with difficulty) but the 4th one was a bitch because the head was rounded. I replaced these bolts with an Allen head bolt and lock washers so that it wouldn't take me an hour to remove them the next time around.

... While trying to replace the water pump, I found that it was difficult to remove the (4) 6mm bolts connecting the pulley because there was not enough clearance between the shoulder of the pulley bracket and the bolt head to fit a socket. They have to be finessed by positioning the socket on an angle. Three of the bolts came off (with difficulty) but the 4th one was a bitch because the head was rounded...

funny... I did EXACTLY the same when replaced mine (it was leaking) just before the balancer died!
it was chisel time...

funny... I did EXACTLY the same when replaced mine (it was leaking) just before the balancer died!
it was chisel time...

I actually got lucky with the 4th bolt even though it was a bit rounded. I was about ready to cut a screw driver slot in the bolt head with my Dremel (a tool that is literally worth its weight in gold). I've had to cut slots in bolt heads on my pool equipment pump (not enough clearance for a socket). This probably was my own fault because the original bolts (which I replaced) may have had a blade screw head. Bad design in either case.

My 88 park avenue is doing the same thing. Took off the belt, started it up and still the noise is there. I'm gonna change the balancer. I haven't been driving it since noise started.