twin 5.0

Well Im starting the begining stages of planning this out. I currently have a Buick Grand National and I love the performance of a turbo car. But I also love driving a fivespeed car. I have two TE-44 turbochargers sittin in my grage so im thinkin of a comletly built 5.0 twin turbo five speed car :naughty: . wadua think?? I'm figuring on a complete rebuild with forged pistons and Steel crank ect. etc. I've noticed that alot of forced inducted 5.0 don't run real hight boost (at least what I have seen). So im planning on dropping the compression to 8.0:1 and spraying alky. If my buick can handle 24PSI on pump gas with no knock then why can't a 5.0 handle 20-24 PSI. If anyone has any questions or consernes or advise (as since I am walking into this blindly.) any help would be appericated.

Thanks

Andy

I have a general question - i was told that a single turbo is often better then a twin set up. I was told this was because a single set up is more efficient to spool up then twins - but if this is true then why would anyone go for a twin set up?

If he is putting two turbos in the 5.0, he shouldnt have any problem spooling them up. The large displacement of the 5.0 will help spool the turbos faster than some small 4 or 6 cylinder.

Good luck and post those pics as soon as you do it. :bigthumb:

I have a general question - i was told that a single turbo is often better then a twin set up. I was told this was because a single set up is more efficient to spool up then twins - but if this is true then why would anyone go for a twin set up?


Well, in an engine of that size, single or twin should not matter as much as it would in say an RX-7.....But in a car like that, its easier to spool two small turbos than one big turbo....Nothing lags like a single turbo wankle....


-Chris

I think that would be a really fast stang. I see that ur from IL and was just wondering if you live anywhere near naperville. If you do have you ever gone down to 75th street and rout 59? I was just wondering this because I have seen a black Grand Nation there before.

No I live down in peoria but I think I know whoes gn your talking about. my buddy lives up there and if it is the same one then that is a low 10 sec. street car. (in other words don't mess with it.) :smokin:. Im up there about once a month around that area. mabye we could get together and run em :naughty: . just kiddin.

Well Im starting the begining stages of planning this out. I currently have a Buick Grand National and I love the performance of a turbo car. But I also love driving a fivespeed car. I have two TE-44 turbochargers sittin in my grage so im thinkin of a comletly built 5.0 twin turbo five speed car :naughty: . wadua think?? I'm figuring on a complete rebuild with forged pistons and Steel crank ect. etc. I've noticed that alot of forced inducted 5.0 don't run real hight boost (at least what I have seen). So im planning on dropping the compression to 8.0:1 and spraying alky. If my buick can handle 24PSI on pump gas with no knock then why can't a 5.0 handle 20-24 PSI. If anyone has any questions or consernes or advise (as since I am walking into this blindly.) any help would be appericated.

Thanks

Andy

You really need to do a lot more reading before you dive into something. For starters the stock 5.0 block is gonzo after 500 RWHP, you're gonna need to dish out around 1500 for an R302 or dart block, or an A4 if you can still find one. 20-24 psi on TE44's, might want to re-think your plan. A pair of TE44's on a decently built motor with good heads + intake would be maxed out before they hit 24 psi, you would be hard pressed to hit 20. If you want to run 24 pounds of boost from a pair of turbos or a turbo on the street, look into something bigger like some 66's or even bigger. At that point you're going to be making too much power for any clutch or standard trans to handle, and if you want to do any kind of hard driving at all you're going to need to put a big drag radial or an E/T street under it, and even then it will roast the tires doing 100.

No I live down in peoria but I think I know whoes gn your talking about. my buddy lives up there and if it is the same one then that is a low 10 sec. street car. (in other words don't mess with it.) :smokin:. Im up there about once a month around that area. mabye we could get together and run em :naughty: . just kiddin.
Peoria huh? A big city in the middle corn, lol. I was there over the summer, drove 2 hours through corn fields till we hit the city. Nice place!

peoria ha, sounds familiar. is that anywhere near wauconda or fox lake?

I was never good at Geography :banghead:

Out of curiosity, how would a single turbo setup happen on a "V" engine?
I would assume a twin-turbo V8 would have one turbo on each manifold. Then where would a single turbo be placed to allow balance in the flow?

Also Hypsi87: What kind of HP numbers are you putting down on 20-24 PSI?? :eek7:

Here is how.

I don't have time right now, but I would only go to 18psi with those turbos, and boost your comprssion up to 8.5-8.75.

Like what was mention your block will fail. I am going with a 351W, the stocks block I have seen handle over 650 pretty easly, anf they are a lot cheaper, and have more cubes than the others that were mentioned.http://forums.stangnet.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11592

When/If you add a FMIC there is going to be like 5 miles of piping hehe...with a twin setup, I think it could be made to have a goodbit less piping....

-chris

Its a V8, piping what piping? :naughty:

As long as you have a reasonable amount of compression it will be fine for the street, its all in the way you build the engine. How you want the power band to hit.

You can always use a VORTECH Aftercooler. :iceslolan

I am a novice when it comes to this stuff. Go to www.turbomustangs.com/forums these guys live turbo stangs day and night. I get a lot of good info from them.

like I said I'm just starting to scratch the suface. now the te-44 will support 24 PSI yea it's kinda running them on thr edge but if you look at the compressor maps your still ok. used to have one on my GN befor I bought my te-60 and thats the turbo that laid down my 12.6 run. te-66 are a little big for a 302 on a stick. yea it would be more efficent but laggier than hell. as how much boost on what compression. as long as I can keep the knock out of the motor I should be fine. besides thoes number where just a ball park guess. as for intercooling is concerrned I will be running a seperete circiuit ice water to air intercooler. Does anyone make a girdle or anything for the 302??? not trying to bash them but I know of quite a few stock 3.8 turbo blocks that handle way more that 500 HP with billit main caps and a girdle. man they got that single turbo plumbed all goofy my GN has a cross over pipe that runs unerneeth bellhousing and connects to the back of the passenger side manifold where a Y-pipe would normally hook up and is combined with the passenger side cylinders then goes up and out the turbo unless that is the back of the motor the laptop im on right now is the shitty oneI use turbo link on so it only displays 256 colors crappy graphics. I work at the caterpillar Peoria Proving Grounds as a engine tech, so I will probabally have my piping bent up there when the time comes. DavidovSpeedWRC Im not too shure how much HP im pushing never dyno'd it. it must be decent though for a heavy car to go 12.6@109MPH on street tires and an open rear end. when I say my GN is a street car I don't just mean it is street legeal. It has cruise power steering. power locks and windows,all the steats and carpet and sound deading stuff, A/C, and a nice sound system (Boston Acoustics) ect. ect. As for doing a little more reading, Im not starting this tommrow or next week or anything im researching it. I'm just throwing out ballpark guesses here and when I get all my info I will make a final descision. as for my compression raito ill look into that more I might just have to turn the boost up or down depending on the octane that I run. Thanks all for the help. If anyone is coming through peoria let me know ill show you a good time :smokin: .

thanks again,
Andy

As inefficient as that may look :screwy: , I understand it now Skyline USA, Thanks.

Hypsi, that is an impressive E.T. for an old car like that!

This is just a thought, what would the V8 be like if someone put one turbo on one side of the engine? Then just normal headers on the other side?
I guess the turbo would provide unequal backpressure to the headers on the other side?

A Single Turbo on a V-8 just uses a cross-over to equal out pressures. A 3.8L block with billet main caps and girdle. Yea you could do that to a 302 but the money spent ont he parts and maching for the caps is a waste cause you will be up near the price of a R302 Block which you can go nutty with HP.

I am a firm believer in playing it safe when building an engine, that is why I would only go up 1.2bar. Yes, you are right they can put out 1.7bar, but I do not like to run parts on the edge. My wallet cannot handle that:)

AFR 185 heads, Spyder intake, 80mm Pro M 50lbs, Tweecer RT, Ed Curtis Custom Cam, TKO, 3.55 gears, 75mm TB, MARK VIII Electric Fan, of course get the turbo plumbing as close as possible to the heads, straight through mufflers like Borlas or MAgnaflow. Flowmasters suck, they are chambered, not very effecient and the drone like bleepin hell.

I say 3.55 because most of the TKOs have a 3.27(or its close to it) first gear.

Griddle will not help that much, the block will still crack.

I am a firm believer in playing it safe when building an engine, that is why I would only go up 1.2bar. Yes, you are right they can put out 1.7bar, but I do not like to run parts on the edge. My wallet cannot handle that:)

AFR 185 heads, Spyder intake, 80mm Pro M 50lbs, Tweecer RT, Ed Curtis Custom Cam, TKO, 3.55 gears, 75mm TB, MARK VIII Electric Fan, of course get the turbo plumbing as close as possible to the heads, straight through mufflers like Borlas or MAgnaflow. Flowmasters suck, they are chambered, not very effecient and the drone like bleepin hell.

I say 3.55 because most of the TKOs have a 3.27(or its close to it) first gear.

hey skyline, are these your engine specs? if so i could use a couple of answers if you got em!

I will be using 205, because the cfms for the 185s are a little low for the bigger cubed 351w that I will be using.

Other than that, that will be my combo.

Another thing, is I do not see my power band running higher than 6500-7000rpms, so I will probably go roller hydro, with a 302 the power band will be more in the range of a solid roller.