Proposed model competition, please read if you build pre-1970 American cars

I am proposing a pre-1970 model car competition, sometime mid next year? I'd like to organise it and run it but I would need enough interest by fellow AF modellers. I feel that the greatest and most famous car designs were penned before 1970, what other cars could set a mark today in design and innovation like a 1959 Cadillac Eldorado Seville? Or what musclecar could be as crazy as a Dodge Hemi Dart? What other car would present to be such a popular rodding mobile like a `32 Ford 3 window or `32 Highboy? What car from the 60s could still be hunted by so many collectors like a genuine Baldwin Motion Camaro or Corvette? Etc etc.

Please anyone who loves classics at all, post up some ideas or show your interest in this competition! This is just the beginning, when some people show interest in it we will start getting it together, I'll do all the hard work like organising catagories and the systems etc. I want this to be a fun competition! See what we can squeeze out of our heads for some classy old-style cars from before 1970 (maybe some special exceptions for cars up to `75 if they were a classic icon like the Hemi Cuda, Boss Mustang etc?) All I need from you is interest, motivation and if anyone wants to win some prizes we need to find some people for it and provide some parts, I will too!
I really want to do this just for some fun! I want to see what we can build as classic cars, they are/were so important to todays motoring world so lets not forget the great things they accomplished, like cruise control on a 1959 Cadillac before Americans even thought of fuel economy! I'd like to limit this competition only to the classics that have played the most important roles or introduced new technology, or are icons of fame like a GT40.

Please people, get some motivation from just flicking through issues of classic car magazines or by reading a few articles in some books about classic cars. Let me know ASAP, the more time we have the better!

I'm interested (though, knowing my building speed, my interest is provisional :))

Sounds good man. I might be interested, if I can get better at building by then.

i could enter my 70 camaro fd and my torino (diorama?)

I'm in. This is just what I need to get those kits off my shelf and the dust cleared. Need any help? I might could squeeze some organization time between class and work.

I'd be interested in building for this one.

I would like to see some NEW muscle built for it though..
Not just a meet of all the great classic cars here already..

The time your talking is 8 months or so? That is plenty of time to produce a car or 2.

Hmm.. I already had a car planned.. so why not enter this contest? :) Sounds good! I like the idea.

Mid next year? With my rate I should start now!

Sounds good to me. Any categories planned? Like factory stock, race (Hey you listening, Luke?), modified/Pro Touring, Pro Street, etc? And I agree, no re-hashes!

r

Interesting!

If the only limitation is 'pre-70', then the catagories should be simple too.

Mild: Near box stock (kit parts only, flock, foil).

Medium: Kit bash parts swaps, wheels/tires, some detailing, mild kit mods.

Hot:Anything goes.

Sounds good! (as long as classic Pick-ups are included!)

:p

this works out nice two of my best models are pre 70's cant wait for this contest :naughty:

Count me in.

Interesting!

If the only limitation is 'pre-70', then the catagories should be simple too.

Mild: Near box stock (kit parts only, flock, foil).

Medium: Kit bash parts swaps, wheels/tires, some detailing, mild kit mods.

Hot:Anything goes.

Sounds good! (as long as classic Pick-ups are included!)

:p
Those are good categories, clean and simple!

I'd love to be in it!!

Definitely interested..

Im in for sure

I'm definitely in on this one. (Ironically, I started a Cherry Brandy red 1959 Impala on Hoppin Hydro's 20inch Vortexs today that fits this theme perfectly)

Question, though, you never state if it's limited to pre-'70 American cars, or if it's just pre-'70. I'm sure those of us who build XK-E Jaguars, 250 Ferraris, 356 Porsches and the like would love to participate.

My hand's up.

sounds good. i really like the idea. do u think u can possibly make an exemption for a '72 Corvette Stingray?

I'm afraid that just wouldn't interest me in the slightest, NOT!!!!!!!! I'm all over that like ugly on ape. Just tell me what you'd like me to do. I'll help any way I can and you can bet I'll come up with an entry or two, also. Let the games begin.

i'm very interested i have like 5 muslce cars that i can build but im thinking my Boss 429 :evillol: i guess id better get started :lol:

Sounds good! I've got a 69 Camaro Convertible that I started not too long ago! Maybe I'll build another car for another category too.... just might make me finish that trick '49 merc i'm working on.....

definately. gotta plan a car to enter it now :naughty:

Wow! So many replies in such a short time! I'll get to it and post a nice long NEW post/thread tomorrow night with some simple guidelines of rules, I will also make it a poll for optional things to add, make your voice heard!

I was thinking about spliting the models into year groups, then spliting the year groups(say 1960s) Into sections like, stock,detailed,mild custom, streetrod, lowrider, musclecar, luxury car etc or something like that!
Maybe push it to near christmas so we have more time to plan things out?
I need input on wether or not people want prizes, or they just want to do it as fun, and to maybe increase the respect and popularity of old car models. So that we can spread the great things and show what technology those beautiful, bold and brilliant cars bought to our new world!

Keep posting ideas! These replies so far have gotten me very interested in this! I just can't be bothered to type up the simple regulations etc now because i'm really tired and low in energy levels.

Help me out :)

I'm definitely in on this one. (Ironically, I started a Cherry Brandy red 1959 Impala on Hoppin Hydro's 20inch Vortexs today that fits this theme perfectly)

Question, though, you never state if it's limited to pre-'70 American cars, or if it's just pre-'70. I'm sure those of us who build XK-E Jaguars, 250 Ferraris, 356 Porsches and the like would love to participate.

You just have read my mind exactly, octacon...


I think it might be a bigger and more diverse turnupp with just making the cometition an old timer competition, like say the original car has to be at least 25 years old or something?
Making it an all - American contest could be ok too, but you might see the same models over and over again?

Maybe go for the variation, I would say.

Cheers for bringing this thread up, though!

Olivier

I was kind of thinking about adding some others too, things like Ferrari's, Porsche's etc. Those would be nice and all, but maybe have a sub contest for them.

I'm up for it. I just got some AMT models the other day for dirt cheap. Big Lots had a 3 pack of models (different assortments) for $12.99 I had to grab one. Too good to pass up.

:naughty: I'll be a starter

On the prize issue, I'll be honest and say that it'd be really nice to have prizes but I certainly won't need them as incentive.

Also, if we're going to have prizes for such a contest, I'd think they'd need to be theme appropriate prizes. Like, the grand prize could be a Perry's Resin 1969 Penske SCCA Trans-Am Camaro transkit.

But, then again, like I said. Prizes aren't a necessity. They'd just be an added bonus.

I was kind of thinking about adding some others too, things like Ferrari's, Porsche's etc. Those would be nice and all, but maybe have a sub contest for them.
That can be saved for ides like Italian only, German only, Japanese only etc.
As for pre-70 American, I don't know if it has to be just pre-70. It might get more entries if it's American brands of all year, and sub categolize it.

count me in. i havent built a model in quite sometime now, this gives me an excuse to :)

Cool idea. I will have to brainstorm :naughty: for my project. and buy another digicam. :mad: i'm thinking of a........ :grinno:

Also, if we're going to have prizes for such a contest, I'd think they'd need to be theme appropriate prizes. Like, the grand prize could be a Perry's Resin 1969 Penske SCCA Trans-Am Camaro transkit.

But, then again, like I said. Prizes aren't a necessity. They'd just be an added bonus.
That would be a very good prize! :naughty: But expensive.
But like you said, it's not a necessity. I wouldn't mind the contest being just for fun.
As a prize, I can do the "Feature of the Month" thing on my webpage, you just have to make sure to contact me w/ the pictures, and info. in the end.

Ok well help me out some more! Post up sub-catagories that you think should be put in place, stuff like that...

how about these:
retrotech (like an LS1 in a 69 vette)
boyd style rods (bright colours/loads of billet)
rat style rods (cobbled together from pure crap)
corvette and mustang classes (fairly obvious, caters to stock and modified)
show cars (modified like crazy)
street modified (a nice street car with some sensible mods)
tough street (a nice street car with some batshit insane mods)

I'll post more if I can think of any viable classes.

street modified (a nice street car with some sensible mods) I especially like this idea!! My 427 Monte Carlo SS and phantom '68 Judge would fit in nicely!! Also my '65 Chevelle Nomad, '70 GTO Street Hunter, '55 Nomad. etc...:evillol::evillol::evillol:

We need to narrow down the classes or you'll have classes with just one entry. The "Mild, Medium, Hot" categories that TR mentioned is a good idea. You can then break those down into years if there are enough entries, like "Mild - up to 1964", "Mild - 1965 through 1970", etc.

Stock
Built from the box with no mods, or minimal detail modifications like wiring etc.
Street Car
Modified with different wheels, tires, engine parts, paint jobs, suspension modifications, wiring.
Opening detail
Any car, modified with opening panels, wiring, detail painting...So as much detail as you can get onto a model.
Traditional Hot Rod
Pre 50s car, customised with sensible, viable modifications with parts from 1950 and before, the relative era of the first hotrods.
Modern Hot Rod
Boyds style cars, new engines in old bodies(pre 50s), interior transplants, drvetrain transplants, modern style paint job, modern style wheels, airbag suspension.
Lead Sleds and Lowriders, traditional
Pre-1970 model lowriders and lead sleds, modified with whatever tickles your fancy, but keep it within limits, dont do anything too crazy.
Lead Sleds and Lowriders, modern
Anything after 1970 but done the same style as 'Modern Hot Rod', lowriders may have big wires, billet chrome wheels, air bags etc.
Traditional Racing car
Old style NASCARs and other racing type cars go here, pre 1975
Modern Race car
Corvette C5R, need I say more? Any modern race car goes.
Traditional musclecar
Musclecars from before 1975 modified with tasteful parts of the era, no billet wheels or fancy suspension here, just raw power.
Modern Musclecar
Any musclecar after 1975 goes in here, modified with whatever you like.
Best Catergories
This will consist of:
Best Paint
Best detail
Best Display
Best Engine
Best Modifications

This is just a lay-out, please feel free to add or take, comment or complain about any categorie you see here or dont see here. We need to set make limits now, good luck!

My questions are...

<Stock>
Is it factory stock, or box stock?
In most contest rules, factory stock allows any enhancement like wiring and detailing, using aftermarket parts, as long as the model represents the car available at a dealer show room. Box Stock only allows aftermarket decals and BareMetal, in most cases.

<Traditional Racing Car>
Wasn't this supposed to be pre-70, or there was no NASCAR back then?

<Modern Race Car>
Again, was pre-70 idea dropped?

<Modern Muscle Car>
Define a muscle car.
I don't think anybody would argue, if I call the Boss 429 a muscle car, but what about 5.0 and 4.6? Are they, really? ;)

The original muscle cars were a big engine in a small (for its time) car to create a real strip performer. few engineers were concerned with making the cars fast around a track that had bends in it, like shelby was. These days all cars are put under the same microscope as audis and BMWs so steering, handling, and comfort all became necessary to make sales. We however had a head start in the 'power' stakes.

The racing car thang; Nascar was there back in the 60's and 70's, but it was different. It was dominated by chargers and galaxies, rather than rebodied 69 camaros and mach 1's. :eek7:

Factory; it doesn't have to be box stock, you can use other parts as long as it represents a factory car. If the car you're building came out with an optional styled wheel not included in your kit, however, feel free to kitbash it onto yours.

Too many. What if someone wants a race car with opening details? You've already narrowed it down to pre-70 US cars, or so we thought until that list.

Keep it simple:
Stock = box stock non-racecar vehicles but with added details like wires, hoses, etc. if the builder wants to. Wheel swaps if they were available for that car.
Modified = stock body streetable cars with mods, i.e. big wheels, blowers, wild paint, drivetrain swaps (Olds engine in a '32 Ford, for example). Lowriders will normally fit into here since most of them use stock body shells. Most Pro Touring, Pro Street, dragstrip conversions go here too provided the wheelwells aren't modified.
Unlimited = anything goes like race cars, chopped tops, major body mods.

Allow zero exceptions. For example if someone builds a "Stock" convertible but decides to cut the windshield down for a more aero look, then it gets bumped up to "Unlimited". It's not like the rules weren't written before they started building.

:2cents:

Simple; He enters his race car w/opening doors into both classes. However, if he wins best engine in one class, he can't win it in the other.

With your class system, we'd be putting simple nice cars with hugely modified cars which would earn much more points for their sheer attitude. It just wouldn't be fair for other lesser cars.

Simple; He enters his race car w/opening doors into both classes. However, if he wins best engine in one class, he can't win it in the other.

What if he wins in both? Who picks which one he wins?

With your class system, we'd be putting simple nice cars with hugely modified cars which would earn much more points for their sheer attitude. It just wouldn't be fair for other lesser cars.

Like what? Give an example. This is what the discussion is for, finding loopholes in the classifications. The "Hugely modified cars" would be in the "Modified" or "Unlimited" class, won't they? The "simple nice" car would be in the Stock class, no?

Like racing, you pick a class first and build the best car for it within the rules. You don't build a car first then try to find a class that'll accept you, only to be disappointed because your car isn't competitive. We are building new cars here, not re-hashing old models to fit the rules, aren't we?

Not to be pessimistic here, but we won't have hundreds of models. Judging by past contests we'll be lucky to have 30 entrants. That's one of the reasons I think we should limit the number of classes to the minimum. If all goes well, then plan on increasing the classes next time around.

Cannot agree more with 008...

Maybe we should like wait for the Model Of The Year competition, the grandaddy of all AF competitions, if it still will exist.

Then, after that, another competition is discussable.

And also, like the ITR comp, which many people were very interested in, generated only a small amount of interest, but yet some very high profile models, but not masses.

So not too many categories is the best thing

Olivier

let's simplify this down a little more then:

-stock cars
-Mild modified cars w/nice paint and wheels. (all around upgrades)
-lowriders, rods:
*mild = (lowered w/wheels)
*wild = + paint and body mods.
-Dragsters:
*streetable vehicles.
*pro street.
*strip only weapons.

Previous awards for each section and subsection(Best Paint, Best detail, Best Display, Best Engine, Best Modifications)

what if the model we want to use is a concept car and wasnt actually put into production?

Here is an excerpt from GSL classes as a reference.

- Box Stock (Out of the Box)

- Factory Stock

- Light Commercial (<10000lb)

- Heavy Commercial (=>10000lb)

- Street Rod (<1949)

- Street Machine (=>1949)

- Custom

- Competition Closed Wheel

- Competition Open Wheel

- Competition Drag

Some contests have Slammer and Curbside as well.

Theoretically, if a contest is big, each class can have a few sub categories depending of the degree of modification, such as box stock, mild, medium and heavy, then omit less popular categories to finalize the contest class.

Or, start from the degree of modification, and sub categorize by the theme.

- Out of the Box (no mod)

- Mild (aftermarket decal, chrome foil)

- Medium (aftermarket decal, chrome foil, lowering, wheel swaps)

- Heavy (unlimited modification)

Originally, the theme was pre-70 muscle car, so it can be just that in four different categories.

- Out of the Box (no mod)

- Mild (aftermarket decal, chrome foil)

- Medium (aftermarket decal, chrome foil, lowering, wheel swaps)

- Heavy (unlimited modification)

Originally, the theme was pre-70 muscle car, so it can be just that in four different categories.

This sounds pretty good, but where do engine mods come in? For example if someone wanted to build a "sleeper", i.e. stock body and wheels but with big engine, does it automatically go into Heavy? Or should engine mods/swaps be included from Medium and up?

I'm against specific classes, e.g. Lowrider, dragstrip, Pro Street, etc because that could alienate a few models or confuse an entry. Lets say just to screw everyone up I decide to build a 1962 Pontiac Catalina with gold wire wheels, diamond tuck interior, widened the rear wire wheels to accept wide Mickey Thompsons, paint it candy red with a mural on the trunk, install hydraulics, rollcage, and stick a blown engine in it. Is it lowrider? Pro Street? Drag? I say stick to actual levels of modifications, not the vague nomenclatures that magazines use to label cars.

we're getting too complicated here


Roadsters
Lowriders/ Sleds

Street
Pro Street
Race

you be the judge and place your car where you think it goes if youve got opening doors and extreme body mods, more power to you.

we could do "what if's" forever

we're getting too complicated here


Roadsters
Lowriders/ Sleds

Street
Pro Street
Race

you be the judge and place your car where you think it goes if youve got opening doors and extreme body mods, more power to you.

we could do "what if's" forever

Sounds like a winner to me but I'd say kill the "roadster" part since those can go in any other category. You did mean roadsters as in convertibles, right?

I'd also suggest narrowing it down to 1949-1970.

PD where are you? Just pick something so we can all shut up! :iceslolan

well, actually i ment roadsters as in T buckets and highboys

Well come on, just work together and bring something up. I never said that post wast the final verdict it was just a base taht I thought we needed to work off.
What about narrowing it it down to eras, then say 4 categories per era?

This is pretty much how my LHS setup their contests. Add or detract from it as you like.

Box Stock
- Using only parts that come from the model box, no modifications (besides painting) can be done unless called out in the instructions. ex. Using a 3n'1 kit, your able to use the various engine mods, tires/rims, etc.

Factory Stock
- Model that will display a car straight out of the showroom. Any amount of modifications can be done, just as long as it represents a factory/showroom car.

Modified (Street Legal)
- Any modified car that can be considered "street legal." This can be rims, suspension, etc.

Competition
- Any competition car that isn't "steet legal." This can be Nascars, modified dirt race cars, etc.

Diorama
- Any diorama containing cars.... Like Camaroboys Torino diorama.

I think these 5 categories will do. You can also do best of show, paint, etc.

Edit - Clarified

This is pretty much how my LHS setup their contests. Add or detract from it as you like.


I'll go with this. Anyone else?

PD - I thought you already figured out the original era, which is any american car up to 1970?

ProSStreet - Roadster means something without a top, maybe a convertible or just something that didn't come with a roof. "Street rods" is what pre-1948 stuff fits into. I sort of thought you meant to say "Street rods", so I asked.

It was all just a base, I wanted to see if people would be interested in another competition first ;)

Maybe add one or two categories to those Malcolm and we are on a roll yeah?

IMO id like to see all the models compete in just one class with the one model being the overall winner.
Someone building a fantastic "out of the box" kit can make it just as good as the kit that has all the extra "whistle's and bells" added by the builder.

Having a winner in each of the categories is good, but it doesnt give you a "Grand Champion

:2cents:

IMO id like to see all the models compete in just one class with the one model being the overall winner.
Someone building a fantastic "out of the box" kit can make it just as good as the kit that has all the extra "whistle's and bells" added by the builder.

Having a winner in each of the categories is good, but it doesnt give you a "Grand Champion

:2cents:

You can have an overall winner in addition to all the classes, call it "People's choice". Not everyone likes box stock, not everyone likes modifieds, etc. Seems like class favoritism would win over modeling skills if there was to be only one winner. Personally I'd never vote for a box stock or curbside model, but if there was a box stock class I'd pick the one I think is the best.

Yeah, if we keep those catergories that Malcolm posted and add the Peoples choice and one more category I will call it on a roll and we will get underway planning entrants etc etc...
Anyone would be able to enter peoples choice, you can enter it even if you enter 2 other categories.
The biggest pain we need to figure out is organising some prizes. Next?

Do we need prizes at all? if someone feels like making a donation, I'd happily throw in a set of wheels or something(that is to say if I had any wheels anyone but me would actually accept as a gift). The ultimate high of winning is enough for me, personally. :smile:

Keep it simple:
Stock = box stock non-racecar vehicles but with added details like wires, hoses, etc. if the builder wants to. Wheel swaps if they were available for that car.
Modified = stock body streetable cars with mods, i.e. big wheels, blowers, wild paint, drivetrain swaps (Olds engine in a '32 Ford, for example). Lowriders will normally fit into here since most of them use stock body shells. Most Pro Touring, Pro Street, dragstrip conversions go here too provided the wheelwells aren't modified.
Unlimited = anything goes like race cars, chopped tops, major body mods.

Allow zero exceptions. For example if someone builds a "Stock" convertible but decides to cut the windshield down for a more aero look, then it gets bumped up to "Unlimited". It's not like the rules weren't written before they started building.

:2cents:

I Second this, three catergories, three prizes. someone stated some calssifications from GSL, This isnt GSL we have a lot less people, time and money. This would keep it nice an simple, I think it should strictly be pre-70's American cars.

I'll give it a go as well.
I have only one model in the attic that would qualify, Antonio will know :wink: but it'll have to be a suprise till next year.