drag wings
raysoh8
10-12-2003, 01:57 AM
iv noticed that drag cars such as the GTR-700 or funny-cars have spoilers that do not protrude from the boot lid, their spoilers are attached.. well.. like.. look at it yourself. its flat, its like an extension of the boot. but circuit cars do not have it, they have normal wings that are attached ON the boot lid.
why do drag cars use those "drag wings" and circuit cars do not? are they aerodynamically inclined for going in a straight line? and if they are so flat, do they even serve a purpose?
(and please welcome me :smile: )
why do drag cars use those "drag wings" and circuit cars do not? are they aerodynamically inclined for going in a straight line? and if they are so flat, do they even serve a purpose?
(and please welcome me :smile: )
LjasonL
10-12-2003, 02:17 AM
Wings on posts, like on road racing cars, are for producing downforce. Spoilers that go flat with the back of the trunk (technically not wings) are more for helping aerodynamics by keeping airflow from becoming separated and turbulent right off the back edge of the car.
-The Stig-
10-12-2003, 02:22 AM
Well, If you're talking about a drag wing like this
http://www.nhra.com/2003/events/race21/photos/friday/Photo4.jpg
Then you'll see that the whole body of the car acts like a wing, pushes the car onto the ground so it doesn't fly off track. The wing only adds to this effect.
SCCA Car's like this
http://www.johnthawley.com/albums/albun05/aaa.jpg
The body again is molded to act as a wing, to suck the car onto the track. I suppose the form of racing would require the car to have more balanced downforce, as opposed to the NHRA drag setup having most of the downforce biased towards the rear.
Best I can think of for the moment...
http://www.nhra.com/2003/events/race21/photos/friday/Photo4.jpg
Then you'll see that the whole body of the car acts like a wing, pushes the car onto the ground so it doesn't fly off track. The wing only adds to this effect.
SCCA Car's like this
http://www.johnthawley.com/albums/albun05/aaa.jpg
The body again is molded to act as a wing, to suck the car onto the track. I suppose the form of racing would require the car to have more balanced downforce, as opposed to the NHRA drag setup having most of the downforce biased towards the rear.
Best I can think of for the moment...
carrrnuttt
10-12-2003, 03:14 AM
iv noticed that drag cars such as the GTR-700 or funny-cars have spoilers that do not protrude from the boot lid, their spoilers are attached.. well.. like.. look at it yourself. its flat, its like an extension of the boot. but circuit cars do not have it, they have normal wings that are attached ON the boot lid.
why do drag cars use those "drag wings" and circuit cars do not? are they aerodynamically inclined for going in a straight line? and if they are so flat, do they even serve a purpose?
(and please welcome me :smile: )
ALL racers want what the drag-racers have...downforce, with less drag...due to their low wings.
The thing about road-racing cars is the fact that their tracks change every race (usually). They need adjustability for everything (suspension/tune/downforce) to adapt...and you can't adjust wings that are attached to the car.
Drag cars know what their tracks will look like race-after-race...a straight line;).
Simple as that.
Oh, and welcome to AF, BTW. :wave:
why do drag cars use those "drag wings" and circuit cars do not? are they aerodynamically inclined for going in a straight line? and if they are so flat, do they even serve a purpose?
(and please welcome me :smile: )
ALL racers want what the drag-racers have...downforce, with less drag...due to their low wings.
The thing about road-racing cars is the fact that their tracks change every race (usually). They need adjustability for everything (suspension/tune/downforce) to adapt...and you can't adjust wings that are attached to the car.
Drag cars know what their tracks will look like race-after-race...a straight line;).
Simple as that.
Oh, and welcome to AF, BTW. :wave:
carrrnuttt
10-12-2003, 03:20 AM
Wings on posts, like on road racing cars, are for producing downforce. Spoilers that go flat with the back of the trunk (technically not wings) are more for helping aerodynamics by keeping airflow from becoming separated and turbulent right off the back edge of the car.
That's partially true, except the drag-wings...especially on high-hp dragsters, do produce downforce...a LOT of it. The speeds they go to (150MPH and up) will have them lifting without downforce, and all that HP they worked so hard for won't get to the ground to propel the car forward to their goal (no pun intended).
That's partially true, except the drag-wings...especially on high-hp dragsters, do produce downforce...a LOT of it. The speeds they go to (150MPH and up) will have them lifting without downforce, and all that HP they worked so hard for won't get to the ground to propel the car forward to their goal (no pun intended).
LjasonL
10-12-2003, 04:01 PM
I thought he was talking about a regular low spoiler, like this
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/7/web/427000-427999/427980_5_full.jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/7/web/427000-427999/427980_4_full.jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/7/web/427000-427999/427980_5_full.jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/7/web/427000-427999/427980_4_full.jpg
tha_new_guy
10-12-2003, 07:29 PM
That spoiler is just for show I think... its too small to be functional. Too bad its on a FWD car... :nono:
flylwsi
10-13-2003, 12:06 AM
wrong answer.
that wing is functional. any wing, on any car, is functional, no matter the size.
also, functional does not mean that it makes a massive difference, or is somehow life altering. factory wings, though small, do produce downforce.
there are countless ITR owners that swear by the factory "bread basket handle" wing. and these are SCCA autocross guys.
me personally.
i will testify that the factory wing on my 89 prelude does make a difference in the control of the car at high speeds.
i shaved the trunk and ditched the wing. at 120mph (chastise away for going over the speed limit on a public road), the car does have a little less stability.
so like i said, any wing, on any car, no matter the size (of the wing) or power of the car, is functional, and produces downforce, as well as drag.
some cars (like the rice-mobiles we all just LOVE) have wings that are too big, and, though they produce some downforce, the "bonus" of the added downforce does not generally overcome the added drag of that big ass tanning bed on the trunk.
consider the size of the wings used on the SPEED touring car series. if you need to run anything bigger than what the Real Time Racing integras or rsx's run, you better have 400+ hp in your car.
also. drag cars have a very slight "lip" at the back of their wings. they have a massive surface area, which creates downforce. the lip creates drag, so the lip is small.
as noted, the whole car helps "push" the car down (so the lip doesn't need to be tall). if you look at the (name of cars escapes me) cars like kenny bernstein drives (the long ass dragsters) they have regular wings on them, as that's the only way to produce downforce.
also. look at john force's mustang. it's got taller sides, and a taller rear, than the "smaller" cars, like the neon pictured above.
adam sarawutari's nsx, as well as papadakis' new "civic" have similar wings, though bigger than the neon, but smaller than the ones on force's car. it's all about how much downforce you need for the power level.
force has about 7000hp.
steph and adam have about 2000hp.
that neon probably has about 1500hp.
it's all about necessity. only use what you "need".
sounds like a lesson for ricer's, huh?
that wing is functional. any wing, on any car, is functional, no matter the size.
also, functional does not mean that it makes a massive difference, or is somehow life altering. factory wings, though small, do produce downforce.
there are countless ITR owners that swear by the factory "bread basket handle" wing. and these are SCCA autocross guys.
me personally.
i will testify that the factory wing on my 89 prelude does make a difference in the control of the car at high speeds.
i shaved the trunk and ditched the wing. at 120mph (chastise away for going over the speed limit on a public road), the car does have a little less stability.
so like i said, any wing, on any car, no matter the size (of the wing) or power of the car, is functional, and produces downforce, as well as drag.
some cars (like the rice-mobiles we all just LOVE) have wings that are too big, and, though they produce some downforce, the "bonus" of the added downforce does not generally overcome the added drag of that big ass tanning bed on the trunk.
consider the size of the wings used on the SPEED touring car series. if you need to run anything bigger than what the Real Time Racing integras or rsx's run, you better have 400+ hp in your car.
also. drag cars have a very slight "lip" at the back of their wings. they have a massive surface area, which creates downforce. the lip creates drag, so the lip is small.
as noted, the whole car helps "push" the car down (so the lip doesn't need to be tall). if you look at the (name of cars escapes me) cars like kenny bernstein drives (the long ass dragsters) they have regular wings on them, as that's the only way to produce downforce.
also. look at john force's mustang. it's got taller sides, and a taller rear, than the "smaller" cars, like the neon pictured above.
adam sarawutari's nsx, as well as papadakis' new "civic" have similar wings, though bigger than the neon, but smaller than the ones on force's car. it's all about how much downforce you need for the power level.
force has about 7000hp.
steph and adam have about 2000hp.
that neon probably has about 1500hp.
it's all about necessity. only use what you "need".
sounds like a lesson for ricer's, huh?
carrrnuttt
10-13-2003, 01:17 AM
flywsi:
I have been noticing this for a while now, and this will be the first time I will make note of it in public.
Why do you have to sound so...so...BITCHY in most of your posts? Like somebody just pissed in your Wheaties or something.
If not friendly, can you at least sound polite? You notice I disagreed with |delaysion| in this same thread, and I somehow managed to convey that without sounding like a pompous know-it-all.
Chill out.
I have been noticing this for a while now, and this will be the first time I will make note of it in public.
Why do you have to sound so...so...BITCHY in most of your posts? Like somebody just pissed in your Wheaties or something.
If not friendly, can you at least sound polite? You notice I disagreed with |delaysion| in this same thread, and I somehow managed to convey that without sounding like a pompous know-it-all.
Chill out.
-The Stig-
10-13-2003, 01:38 AM
also. drag cars have a very slight "lip" at the back of their wings. they have a massive surface area, which creates downforce. the lip creates drag, so the lip is small.
http://www.nhra.com/2003/events/race21/photos/friday/Photo13.jpg
NHRA Funny Car's have big wings... not exactly what you'd call a slight "lip".
also. look at john force's mustang. it's got taller sides, and a taller rear, than the "smaller" cars, like the neon pictured above.
adam sarawutari's nsx, as well as papadakis' new "civic" have similar wings, though bigger than the neon, but smaller than the ones on force's car. it's all about how much downforce you need for the power level.
force has about 7000hp.
steph and adam have about 2000hp.
that neon probably has about 1500hp.
it's all about necessity. only use what you "need".
sounds like a lesson for ricer's, huh?
What Neon are you talking about? The Mopar dragster I posted in my first post?
If that's the case then you're dead wrong on your power output assumptions. Thats a ProStock NHRA dragster and puts out about 6000hp. It runs deep into the 6s.
You need a bit more than 1500hp to run 6s.
http://www.nhra.com/2003/events/race21/photos/friday/Photo13.jpg
NHRA Funny Car's have big wings... not exactly what you'd call a slight "lip".
also. look at john force's mustang. it's got taller sides, and a taller rear, than the "smaller" cars, like the neon pictured above.
adam sarawutari's nsx, as well as papadakis' new "civic" have similar wings, though bigger than the neon, but smaller than the ones on force's car. it's all about how much downforce you need for the power level.
force has about 7000hp.
steph and adam have about 2000hp.
that neon probably has about 1500hp.
it's all about necessity. only use what you "need".
sounds like a lesson for ricer's, huh?
What Neon are you talking about? The Mopar dragster I posted in my first post?
If that's the case then you're dead wrong on your power output assumptions. Thats a ProStock NHRA dragster and puts out about 6000hp. It runs deep into the 6s.
You need a bit more than 1500hp to run 6s.
flylwsi
10-13-2003, 11:59 AM
my bad...
i was assuming that it was one of the FR setup 4 cyl cars...
that's an IHRA car, yes? hemi and what not...
i was assuming that it was one of the FR setup 4 cyl cars...
that's an IHRA car, yes? hemi and what not...
-The Stig-
10-13-2003, 06:40 PM
my bad...
i was assuming that it was one of the FR setup 4 cyl cars...
that's an IHRA car, yes? hemi and what not...
Now you've got it. :biggrin:
i was assuming that it was one of the FR setup 4 cyl cars...
that's an IHRA car, yes? hemi and what not...
Now you've got it. :biggrin:
flylwsi
10-13-2003, 11:54 PM
in regards to the pic with the big "lip" on the wing, funny cars are a little different than the "pro stock" cars, that have the lower lip.
it's all about the rules...
carrrnuttt.
i'm not pompous.
pompous people think they know everything. find somewhere where i said something that was wrong, or at the very least, didn't admit to it.
i sound "bitchy" as you'd like to call it, b/c people tend to make very generalized statements that are not entirely untrue, but enough to be "damning" to their argument.
i'm not one to beat around the bush. i'm not one to sugarcoat. i am one to call it like i see it.
i think you're only the 2nd or 3rd person to make such an observation about me... i've been here long enough to know how to reply, and i'm pretty straight forward, and i know my shit about the topics i reply to.
if you don't like the way i am on the board, it's not really my problem.
i'll consider the observation, and possibly "tone down" my replies.
also.
alot of the people that have seen my replies before know my personality, and realize that i'm never one to purposely put another down.
i'm also tired of reading the same misconceptions about the same things, over and over, as i'm sure you are as well.
and come on... consider what i was replying to ...
That spoiler is just for show I think... its too small to be functional. Too bad its on a FWD car...
hmm...
redneck... the two solaras that run tt supra motors run 6's and have how much hp?
(ara arslanian and george ioannau)
You need a bit more than 1500hp to run 6s.
follow the link...
http://www.bullishmotorracing.com/race_cars.htm
1450+ hp... they run 6's
it's all about the rules...
carrrnuttt.
i'm not pompous.
pompous people think they know everything. find somewhere where i said something that was wrong, or at the very least, didn't admit to it.
i sound "bitchy" as you'd like to call it, b/c people tend to make very generalized statements that are not entirely untrue, but enough to be "damning" to their argument.
i'm not one to beat around the bush. i'm not one to sugarcoat. i am one to call it like i see it.
i think you're only the 2nd or 3rd person to make such an observation about me... i've been here long enough to know how to reply, and i'm pretty straight forward, and i know my shit about the topics i reply to.
if you don't like the way i am on the board, it's not really my problem.
i'll consider the observation, and possibly "tone down" my replies.
also.
alot of the people that have seen my replies before know my personality, and realize that i'm never one to purposely put another down.
i'm also tired of reading the same misconceptions about the same things, over and over, as i'm sure you are as well.
and come on... consider what i was replying to ...
That spoiler is just for show I think... its too small to be functional. Too bad its on a FWD car...
hmm...
redneck... the two solaras that run tt supra motors run 6's and have how much hp?
(ara arslanian and george ioannau)
You need a bit more than 1500hp to run 6s.
follow the link...
http://www.bullishmotorracing.com/race_cars.htm
1450+ hp... they run 6's
-The Stig-
10-14-2003, 01:31 AM
redneck... the two solaras that run tt supra motors run 6's and have how much hp?
(ara arslanian and george ioannau)
follow the link...
http://www.bullishmotorracing.com/race_cars.htm
1450+ hp... they run 6's
I apologize for my error...
I had to do a bit of research myself.. but what i've found is pretty neato.
In Pro Stock, the better teams are getting 1250 horsepower from their 500 cubic inch engines with two 4-barrel carburetors burning high-octane racing gasoline.
While the import motors might be making a bit more power, the V8s are doing it N/A. :biggrin:
(ara arslanian and george ioannau)
follow the link...
http://www.bullishmotorracing.com/race_cars.htm
1450+ hp... they run 6's
I apologize for my error...
I had to do a bit of research myself.. but what i've found is pretty neato.
In Pro Stock, the better teams are getting 1250 horsepower from their 500 cubic inch engines with two 4-barrel carburetors burning high-octane racing gasoline.
While the import motors might be making a bit more power, the V8s are doing it N/A. :biggrin:
flylwsi
10-14-2003, 11:55 PM
as the saying goes...
there's no replacement for.... you guessed it...
you can squeeze so much more power out of a 500CI motor than a 130CI (2.0 L) motor...
even with the "technology" advantage of the lighter weight parts, dohc, and other stuff, you still can't make up for it...
it's interesting though...
there's no replacement for.... you guessed it...
you can squeeze so much more power out of a 500CI motor than a 130CI (2.0 L) motor...
even with the "technology" advantage of the lighter weight parts, dohc, and other stuff, you still can't make up for it...
it's interesting though...
tha_new_guy
10-15-2003, 04:06 AM
flylwsi:
You may think that i'm an ignorant noob and you are entitled to your own opinions. However, I view these forums as conversations instead of arguments. While you may post with a confrontational attitude, there is no need to lash out at others for a "misconception".
BTW, I stand corrected on the whole FWD spoiler thing.
You may think that i'm an ignorant noob and you are entitled to your own opinions. However, I view these forums as conversations instead of arguments. While you may post with a confrontational attitude, there is no need to lash out at others for a "misconception".
BTW, I stand corrected on the whole FWD spoiler thing.
flylwsi
10-17-2003, 08:00 AM
i definitely didn't call you ignorant, or a noob.
simply stated your answer was wrong, with a description/explanation for why.
that's how we learn...
simply stated your answer was wrong, with a description/explanation for why.
that's how we learn...
raysoh8
10-17-2003, 09:43 AM
http://users.pandora.be/elvo/
go to aerodynamics. there is a part where they talk about a "lip". is that what you mean?
go to aerodynamics. there is a part where they talk about a "lip". is that what you mean?
flylwsi
10-18-2003, 07:47 PM
more like the part about the gurney flap...
i'm talking about the raised section at the back of the wing...
some of them have the small ones, like the hemi rwd neon, while others, like john force's car, have the taller ones...
i'm talking about the raised section at the back of the wing...
some of them have the small ones, like the hemi rwd neon, while others, like john force's car, have the taller ones...
raysoh8
10-19-2003, 12:22 AM
thats what i was talking about.. i think.. are you talking about something like this
__/
or
_/' something like that..
__/
or
_/' something like that..
flylwsi
10-19-2003, 06:26 PM
exactly...
and on some cars they're taller... like the 2 i mentioned...
and on some cars they're taller... like the 2 i mentioned...
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