2004 Gto

I just want an oppinion from everybody on this forum. What do you guys think of the new 2004 GTO? I am trying to find out the oppinions of people who love the old ones, hate the old ones, or never even heard of a GTO before this car. I asked this same thing in a GTO forum and got snapped at because I said that the new GTO didn't live up 100% to it's heritage. I think the looks are sporty but conservative, maybe too conservative. But I know the looks will evolve and the GTO will only get better. I love the drivetrain and just the idea that Pontiac is bringing back a legend. What do you guys think?

Long live muscle cars!!!

I have two problems with the '04 GTO. First, it still looks just like the Holden, which is a minor problem. Second, It has a Chevy motor in it. Thats a fairly ugly problem to solve with the pollution controls these days. Yet it can be fixed. :evillol:

I am not suprised it looks just like the Holden. The Monaro was the car they wanted the GTO to be, so they didn't change it much. And I don't mind the Chevy engine. They share it with many GM branches. All of us who are disappointed with the new GTO should just sit back and wait to see what direction Pontiac takes this thing in.

Very true. I just long for a modern pontiac motor. Perhaps one day.

As long as GM has it's bread and butter Corvette lending motors to the rest of GM's fleet, there won't be another high performance pontiac motor...

Then I say, "Can the vette and bring back the F-Body!!!"

Then I say, "Can the vette and bring back the F-Body!!!"

That would be rediculous.

Ok then how 'bout this "Keep the vette, and bring back the Fiero!"

Ok then how 'bout this "Keep the vette, and bring back the Fiero!"

That depends... What would it look like, what would the engine be. GM is being pretty smart right now and I don't see them doing anything drastic.

I was kind of thinking they could bsically rebody a lotus Esprit and use better electrics. I'd be ok with that being called a Fiero. (And I know it sounds contradictory to my post about the GTO but that is a different car.)

why would pontiac kill the firebird then just get a new rwd car...why cant they have 2 rwd cars?!

GM killed them for lots of reasons, but not because the GTO was coming out...

original poster...go to caranddriver.com and look for the gto they just raced and tested it...might not be on website yet though.

I was just thinking - Does Pontiac currently have any truly unique engines? I know that most of the current GM engines are either generic or Chevy's, but I know that the 3.8 V6 is a buick engine and the 4.7 Northstar's are definitely Cadillac.

By the way, true GTO or not, I am just glad to see a real two door Rear Wheel Drive GM midsize. How long has it been? 1987?

Yup, been quite a while. Could count the 94-96 Impala SS's, except that they're automatics. That can be changed on a 96 though... :naughty:

I was just thinking - Does Pontiac currently have any truly unique engines? I know that most of the current GM engines are either generic or Chevy's, but I know that the 3.8 V6 is a buick engine and the 4.7 Northstar's are definitely Cadillac.

Isn't the 3.9 L Inline-6 a Pontiac engine. They get an impressive 275 HP and 275 ft/lb torque out of it too. And that's withought a turbo or supercharger.

gm need more rwd muscle cars!

Isn't the 3.9 L Inline-6 a Pontiac engine. They get an impressive 275 HP and 275 ft/lb torque out of it too. And that's withought a turbo or supercharger.

What car is that engine used in?

Hmmm, I guess it isn't in anything right now. I heard about it on another forum... I think it is to be used in the upcoming G6, the Grand Am's replacement.

I heard the new GTO was coming out with 350 horse! The new Hemi only has 345 and i also heard that a new charger was coming out and the hemi was going in it... in any case the GTO is fine 350 is alot for these days and though the motor doesn't quite live up to the 389... the GTO will still smoke that plymouth and dodge crap and thats all i care about!! LONG LIVE GM MUSCLE even though muscle cars are gone they will live with us forever!!

oh and don't trash good musclecars just to drag race them!!! if ur gonna race make it a street race i hate seeing beautiful cars hacked up just to run down a track!!!! anyone can restore a car but it takes a real idiot to cut one up!!! (edited for family forum) off topic i know but i had to get it off my chest :)

Ive noticed that you love the GTO's 350hp.
Here in Australia, we buy them with 300Kws. Im not sure on the conversion, but isnt that 402.3hp???
You yanks didnt really do much for the Monaros looks. As mentioned by others, Holden Special Vehicles (HSV) do this beast justice.
We race em here and they kick the crap out of the ferarri, porche and lambos.
Oh.. has any one in the states wacked a supercharger on one yet???
OH OH OH!!!! (said like Tim Allen)
We Love our Monaros!!!

Ive noticed that you love the GTO's 350hp.
Here in Australia, we buy them with 300Kws. Im not sure on the conversion, but isnt that 402.3hp???
You yanks didnt really do much for the Monaros looks. As mentioned by others, Holden Special Vehicles (HSV) do this beast justice.
We race em here and they kick the crap out of the ferarri, porche and lambos.
Oh.. has any one in the states wacked a supercharger on one yet???
OH OH OH!!!! (said like Tim Allen)
We Love our Monaros!!!


i heard that the ausie monaro, will get more hp than the gto soon, something like 360hp you guys hear that? i also heard that tthere might be a gto judge coming out. dont think it has 400 hp though(on the monaro).

I have no clue had to convert KW ratings to HP. But I thought the Monaros only put out something like 320 HP...

Nameless Dork, there is a Judge coming out from SLP not Pontiac. Pontiac will come out with a special edition GTO sometime, but they don't own the Judge name. The SLP Judge will supposedly put out 421 horses. Pontiac's special edition GTO should have somewhere around 400.

I have no clue had to convert KW ratings to HP. But I thought the Monaros only put out something like 320 HP...

Nameless Dork, there is a Judge coming out from SLP not Pontiac. Pontiac will come out with a special edition GTO sometime, but they don't own the Judge name. The SLP Judge will supposedly put out 421 horses. Pontiac's special edition GTO should have somewhere around 400.


motor trend said something about that but did not specify if they were talking abuot the SLP or Pontiac 'Judge'. Monaro hp i heard, im probibly wrong but it had 340 and next model year it gets 360 or some thing like that.

i think that the only way people get the muscle that they want is to do it themself, inexpensive factory muscle is going awayand that makes me sad :crying:

My :2cents: :

The LS1 is a GM engine and is FAR superior to any old Pontiac engine. Everyone should be very happy that it will be powering the GTO. With a few relatively inexpensive mods it will put out 450 FWH. The old Pontiac engines were heavy and inefficient.

One HP = 746 watts. The Holden makes less HP than the GTO.

The new GTO looks like a Cavalier on steriods with a Grand Am nose -- but I think that's been said before. I think the GTO should have had a slightly '65 GTO retro look! (Sorry, I had one when they were nice $800 used cars.) :rolleyes:

It's like this fellas. In the 60's, engines were measured in gross horse power, meaning total output, including what is used pull the accessory belt(s) and timing chain. The original GTO peaked at about 360 of those. Today, we measure net horsepower, meaning what the engine has left after it powers it's accessories and timing chain. The difference is something like 60-75 hp. Thus the reason 360 hp engines suddenly dropped to 290 hp. It had very little to do with octane, even less to do with lead and a lot to do with a change in the unit of measure. But this does not tell the whole story either. Chevy engines in the 60's were just as inefficient as Pontiac engines and hp:cid ratios were just as low in most cases, the exceptions being the 454 LS-6 and the 427 ZL1, neither of which were ever really suitable for street use.

What is my point? Ponder: the 5.7cd LS1 weighs a lot less than the big blocks, due to aluminum construction. Adjusted for differences in units of measure, the LS1 is actually MORE powerfull than the original, even if you use the understated (for insurance purposes) figure of 320 nhp (about 395 ghp), which is actually more like 370 nhp (about 445 ghp, approching the LS-6 454). Further, the 5.7cd LS1 is due for a retuning of its heads and cam which will bring it's advertised net horse power up to 405 (about 480 ghp eclipseing the LS-6 454) and actuall nhp to about 455 (about 520 ghp, eclipseing the race only ZL1) Further, the current 5.7cd LS6 gets 405 advertised (see above, compare to the original LS-6 454) and is actually closer 455 nhp (again, see above and compare to the ZL1), is due for an upgrade next year that will bring its advertised horsepower to 450 (equaling in nhp the ghp of the original LS-6) and will probably be closer to 520 (ghp will almost reach 600).

I would say to anybody who is complaining about the engine in the new GTO and Chevelle to reevaluate the numbers and reconsider. I for one will refer to walking into the pontiac dealership as "seeing a man about spanking a pony!"

i hate the new style of the gto. it looks like a grand am and has gay ass exhaust. the interior is nice but there is no trunk space for anything. the engine is good because its still a very strong engine. but the car overal is terrible . and no dont bring back the fiero if anything bring back the f- body with a retro style like they designed in gh high performance kind of like the 69 style. real slick looking.

In my opinion, this HOLDEN, should had never gotten the name GTO here in the states.. It just isn't a GTO.. theres nothing about the car that has anything to do with a gto..Lets call it what it is.. A rear wheel drive Grand prix.. Plus the car is dissappointing.. I've read numerous car reviews from top magazines and it's hard for the car to manage a 14.0 in the 1/4.. To get that 14 flat they had to do all the tricks in the book.. lower tire pressure, reflash the ecu, remove spare... It's a heavy car and 350hp just isn't enough to move it.. The word is the 350 is over rated as well.. which i believe.. i honestly think that after a couple yrs they are gonna fall off the face of the earth. or at least here in the states.. I think it would had gone farther being called a grand prix.. they could had pulled it off too cause grand prix's used to be rwd. I haven't even seen one around here.. i think ppl just think they suck and are too much money.. for the same price a person can buy a Cobra which has 380whp.. more car for the money.. it's spring now too so now is when i would expect to see a bunch of them...

I've read numerous car reviews from top magazines and it's hard for the car to manage a 14.0 in the 1/4.. To get that 14 flat they had to do all the tricks in the book.. lower tire pressure, reflash the ecu, remove spare... It's a heavy car and 350hp just isn't enough to move it.. The word is the 350 is over rated as well.. which i believe

really? ive never heard that they had to do all that, funny thing is this is coming from a SVT guy, I love fords, but gosh dont get so defensive, i think your just mad that your svt may get competition!! ok i jest, but you whacht out for that SLP Judge, though the new cobra is definatly getting more hp, golly hopefully it'll turn into another nuclear hp war!!!

i'm not just saying that cause i'm a "ford" guy.. i have respect for all cars, but this one just erks me.. At first everyone was like oh the GTO is so fast i bet it runs low 13's, its such a great car blah blah blah.. It's deffinatly not as big a hit as expected.. like i said i haven't even seen one driving on the road and they have been out for a little while now... this suckers gonna flop like a woman running with saggy tits... Plus there was an article in fast mustangs and fords.. they compared the GTO versus the mach 1 cause there was debate over which was the better car.. sure its a mustang magazine, but they state the facts so you can't really argue it.. i mean it makes perfect sense.. the car is heavy, it has an irs, which is great for handling but not as good for launching at the track, it supposedly has 350hp, but theres much debate if it really puts that out.. people are always talking about how LS1 are gods gift to man, but in reality its over rated.. i know two ppl personally who think there stock LS1 is under rated and puts out 380 hp at the crank.. and they are ignorant to the fact so theres no argueing with them. yet they never get there car dyno'd to prove it.. i've done tons of research to argue that the ls1 is over rated.. everytime i find a dyno chart which is said to be of a stock ls1.. it never is stock! a cat back exhaust and intake are mods ppl! thats not stock!

Ok, this is from LS1.com:

LS1 Dyno Runs

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The links to the three
Dynojet graphs shown below, show a pretty typical number of approximately 305 RWHP for the 1998-2000 LS1 F-Body.
This particular car is a 1998 Z28 with a .3.42 six speed manual transmission. The only mods performed to the car at the time of these tests were an SLP Cat Back system , SLP Y pipe, and a K&N air filter. The K&N has been shown not to effectively increase RWHP in these particular cars.

See 305whp with almost full exhaust and a drop in filter.. NOT STOCK!!

Review from Car and driver:

If you want necks snapped, row hard and keep the gas pedal flat. The all-season 245/45 BFGoodrich g-Force T/As are mere shrimps on the barbie of the LS1 V-8. The GTO charges headlights ablaze out of a toxic cloud of tire smoke to turn 5.3 seconds at 60 mph and 14 flat in the quarter-mile at 102 mph, clobbering with big-bore snort new import coupes such as the Infiniti G35 and Mazda RX-8.

oh i agree with you that the new gto is not the big bad car it perhaps should be, but i just love making cracks like well your a ford guy. i just think that gm does not want a car to get within striking distance to the vette, put the gto on a diet, get a new ls2 bigger tires, and the performance might beat a current SVT Cobra, butttttttttttttt there is a new cobra coming out so pontiac will have to play catch up again. Im actually a ford guy more or less, but like pontiacs.

yea, i like pontiacs too, but i have to say i wish GM would come up with better shit.. Sure GM is the leading car builder, they just don't make many GOOD cars.. Vette is all they have right now thats even worth thinking about.. SSR= crap, redline=crap,sunfire= crap, comp G= would be better if manual, and all the other cars blow goats...Gm just puts out dissappointment after disappointment.. GTo is in the process of flopping, they took away the f-body, their sport compacts suck eagle choder, and who cares about trucks and vans...

Overall I am pleased with my 04 I plan on a hood other than that I like it Rex

as long as your happy with what you have thats all that matters...But my thoughts on the car are different..i mean its a decent car and all. still sharp, handles nice, and is quick, but its not american, its not a GTO, and i personally think GM could had done better..

Do you remember what the gto was before it became a GTO in 64 or so?

it was just a tempest

hopefully this car is here to "temp" us then we get a cooler one.

yea,i hope.. well theres a lot of talk about a judge version.. SLP has some sort of judge package, but i would like to see a better production car instead.. I was thinking about it and the GTO is a muscle car made for drag racing so why does the new GTO use a IRS.. they should convert that to a solid rear axle to give the car better drag racing performance versus circuit track use.. launching on an IRS is kinda hard.. i should know..

Yeah, I was dissappointed with the new GTO also. It's a good car and has potential, but it's overweight and looks like a big Cavalier with a Grand Am nose. And just some scoops ain't gonna fix it! It's gonna die a quick death! And this is coming from someone who has owned more Pontiacs then any other make. I will admit that the last Pontiac I owned was so unreliable that I swore I would never own another Pontiac -- a 1988 Trans Am GTA -- terrible car!!!

I think they should have made the new GTO more retro -- taking cues from the '65. That's what Ford is doing with the new Mustang -- and they are gonna clean up!!! If I didn't have a '99 C5 I would have to have one. In fact I have considered that when the new Cobras come out -- no I won't say it! :grinno:

But they were right to use an IRS. A well engineered IRS is much better for the street -- and the new GTO first and foremost is a street car. Can't get a good launch with an IRS!? I have no problems in my Corvette! The only reason to not use an IRS is to save money! :2cents:

i just say that cause IRS are known to be much twitchier.. some guys swap them out with a solid axle when they get hardcore at the the track..

i would like the GTO much more if it were sold as a upgraded grand prix or even a new name..

the pontiac GXP is what it maybe should be called, b/c they are going to do a GXP version of most of thier cars this could be the halo car for them. http://www.pontiac.com/concept/index.jsp?brand=fuelingzone&pagename=home dang this is gay, this link used to be to their GXP conceps.

dang like those cars though, in my link i posted.

GTO= poopie

well just for the record, i like the new gto it just is not as good as i could and maybe should be, and not wanting to start any arguments this is just an observation, is that many ppl and magazines criticize the Cobra just as much as the GTO, stuff like the stick to far forward and it having terrible seats, ironicly the gto and cobra could not be any more different, the gto is comfortable, and all fancy for a muscle car, but quite bland looking. And the Cobra is very nice looking and fast (the most important thing), but not so comfy, 2 cars that cant almsot be compared, but id love eather(the cobra more so)

i seen a black one today.. i think they look cool, but just nothing like a GTO should.

Just for the record i think all new domestic sport cars (not muscle any more) are going to hell, the new GTo compared to the 72 Gto, well lets just say the 60's and 70's GTo's were ALOT better looking.

well do you like the retro mustang? i agree the old cars many times look better, 60's pontiacs are very beautiful. Though i do love the 02 pontiac firebird trans am ram air, it just as beautiful as the 67-68 firebird 400(my favorite car).

i dont like ne of the new cars these days, especially the new "MUSCLE CARS" so to speak, i think ford and GM could have made them look ALOT better. for instance, the interior is too luxorious and sporty for a muscle car.

I see absolutely nothing that resembles a muscle car in the new GTO. Sorry, I just can't

ummm, 2+2 coup rwd and a V-8! pretty much what the old gto was!

Just for the record i think all new domestic sport cars (not muscle any more) are going to hell, the new GTo compared to the 72 Gto, well lets just say the 60's and 70's GTo's were ALOT better looking.
They were faster too.

ummmm, no, the new gto is faster, alot faster.

i think that they could of been more creative with the body. I saw one at NHRA nationals last year when they were still working the kinks out of it. I thought at first glance it was just a grand prix or grand am. You would think that someone at pontiac would at least have a unique body style to do the GTO justice. Other than that i have no problems with the engine and how they built it

You're overlooking one critical thing that weighs heavy on the minds of manufacturer, GIMIC. Pontiac replaces the firebird with another rwd V8 sports car. What to call it? The GTO was cool, lets call it that=GIMIC. Chrysler needs a more modern V8. All the kids that were buying muscle cars in 1969 are buying SUVs now, lets build them another hemi=GIMIC. The GTO is a marketing strategy, not a resurection. I credit them for doing it, shame on them for passing off the F-body. But, make the car a little more realistic. IRS is the thing of the 'future' and that's how it is. But the body, get real! Another gimic, the new Mustang. I'm not a Ford guy by any means but Ford knows what's up here. I personally couldn't be happier with the retro-ization of the Mustang. Bring back modern versions of the old paint, skunk stripe it, and watch people drool.
-N8

You're overlooking one critical thing that weighs heavy on the minds of manufacturer, GIMIC. Pontiac replaces the firebird with another rwd V8 sports car. What to call it? The GTO was cool, lets call it that=GIMIC. Chrysler needs a more modern V8. All the kids that were buying muscle cars in 1969 are buying SUVs now, lets build them another hemi=GIMIC. The GTO is a marketing strategy, not a resurection. I credit them for doing it, shame on them for passing off the F-body. But, make the car a little more realistic. IRS is the thing of the 'future' and that's how it is. But the body, get real! Another gimic, the new Mustang. I'm not a Ford guy by any means but Ford knows what's up here. I personally couldn't be happier with the retro-ization of the Mustang. Bring back modern versions of the old paint, skunk stripe it, and watch people drool.
-N8


The man has a good Point. Rex

the new GTO is not in the same league as the 02 f-bodies, it has more power but definatly runs more sluggish, feel slower....i would love to the see the new GTO out of production and the TA back in 5 years with a optional LS6