Sagging Leaf Spring Replacement Options

Well, like most people my rear leaf springs are sagging. I read through all the old posts and I wanted to do a summary to see if I understand my options and get everyone’s opinion.

To fix this problem, it looks like there are four options:
1) Replace the spring pack with an OEM pack
2) Add a set of shackles
3) Install an Add-A-Leaf (commonly referred to as AAL)
4) Install a new set of aftermarket leaf springs.

Replacing the stock springs with a new set of OEM parts is the cheapest, if I can get the dealership to cover the “repair” under warranty. I know Mosi was able to have this done, so it is possible, even with a very modified rig. Drawbacks are the same problem will appear in another 10-15K miles.

Adding shackles is the next cheapest option. Aftermarket shackles replace the stock parts and add around 2” to the rear of the vehicle. Benefits are it is a cheap option that looks fairly easy to install. Drawbacks are you still have the worn out leafs on the rig and they will continue to sag. These parts run around $50 if I remember correctly.

The next option is the Add-A-Leaf. These typically replace the load leaf and the lower spring (right??!!) and add up to 3”” of lift in the back. Benefits are they will improve the overall effectiveness of the spring pack and provide a better ride. Apparently you can now also get longer U-bolts so you can keep the load leaf. Drawbacks are you still have part of the old OEM spring back in use, which probably limits the effectiveness of the AAL. Costs are $50-70(?) and take two people (and equipment) about 3 hrs to install.

On a side note, what is the purpose of the load leaf? Because it is flat, does it provide additional surface area (and load capability) for carrying heavy loads? I thought this is what one of the earlier posts mentioned, but I want to make sure. Is it recommended to keep the load leaf if you are regularly lots of cargo?

The final option is to replace the entire spring pack with an aftermarket part. Benefits are you have all new springs that “in theory” will last longer than the stock leafs. They will probably also provide a nice lift over the stock leafs. Drawbacks are cost ($600?) and ? Has anyone done this yet? I guess another drawback would be if no has tested any of the aftermarket parts and put 20K+ miles on them for comparison purposes.

So am I close? There doesn’t appear to be one best answer. Rather, options for what you really want to accomplish (and have $ to spend).

Originally posted by ToeJam
There doesn’t appear to be one best answer. Rather, options for what you really want to accomplish (and have $ to spend).

The "best answer" is to replace the leaf pack so you don't have to worry about wearing out another OEM in the future. However I don't know if this is within your budget or if you've lifted the front to match how much lift you would get from the full spring pack.

XOC (Ian) has the full leaf pack from SLR in his stage III lift. You may want to find out how many miles he has on it as I know he loads his heavy when wheeling and puts it under full articulation, so if problems were going to occur, he should have seen it.

As far as all the other options you listed, they all have pro's and con's and nobody agrees on what those are. You need to start with what your budget is, how much lift you want to accomplish and from there see what is available. I'm currently testing a multiple AAL system with the stock spring pack and I think it will be a good compromise in price, lift, and longevity of the OEM pack.

I hope this information helps you. :)

I agree with Craig on this one. You are FAR better off putting in the spring pack. First, it offers superior longevity compared to factory, second, it has double-wrapped eyelets that help eliminate wheel hop and last you are putting in a brand new pack as opposed to extending the usable life of an old one.

If your springs are sagging, shackles are definitely not the answer. They flatten the spring pack, lower departure angle and because of the flattening of the spring pack, reduce it's usable life.

In the long run, saving money now just may cost you more money in the future. If you spend the money on the AALs, in the future (maybe not so distant) you will wind up replacing the spring pack anyway. You might as well spend the money up front now if you can afford it and get it done. That way you will be set for a long time to come. Keep in mind though that the front will also have to be lifted to make up for the gain from the new leaf pack. So that will increase the price of the job.

There is one other option you can buy the add-a-leaf kit from calmini. If you ask steve he will sell it to you individually. It consists of 2 leafs, longer u-bolts, and a new center pin. I liked this system much better since it is a tru add-a-leaf. You don't just replace the load leaf with a curved leaf. What you have to do is actually take apart the spring pack and insert one leaf into the body of it and one just above the load leaf. You get to keep your load leaf and improve the spring. The full replacement leaf pack is still preferrable but if you don't want to spend that kind of money the calmini is a good solution. And it will probably last longer than the rancho single leaf.

Originally posted by VaderX
There is one other option you can buy the add-a-leaf kit from calmini. If you ask steve he will sell it to you individually

What is the cost?

I am not exactly sure what the cost is since I bought most of the lift all at once. I would guesstimate it at 120 for the 4 leafs center bolt and u bolts.

Vader,

How stiff is it once it is in? Usually AALs stiffen the suspension and adding two can make it worse. It depends on the spring rate of the AAL, that's why I am asking.

Well war I did the entire lift so some increased stiffness was to be expected all the way around with new shocks shackles etc. That being said the stiffness is not that noticeable. I drive it every day so I did notice a bit of a different feel but passengers have no idea that there is any change in ride quality. Having 2 leafs I believe helps out since the spring rate remains progressive and spread throughout the leaf. Rather than with just one where all the support comes from the bottom leaf.

ToeJam...

If I was in your situation I would attempt to get a new OEM spring pack from the dealer and install AALs immediatly after.


I have the Rancho AALs and IMO it improved the ride. The AALs added about 3-3.5", 2.5-3 once they settled. The AALs came with the center pin.

Cost $54.00

I installed them myself and it took about 2 hours and that included a trip to PepBoys (30 min.) for a deep socket. Once I learned what I was doing on the first side the second side was installed in about 20 min. Air tools would cut the time by atleast 50%.

I installed the AALs before my OEM pack started to sag. I figured the AALs were insurance against the springs sagging. I've had the AALs in for about 6K miles with 16K total on the X.

The shackles will make the springs sag quicker, so be leary of them...

When I can finally afford to install the lift in the front, I'll be adding a second set of AALs to gain a few more inches. I'm used to driving a vehicle with a very tight suspension so I actually enjoy the increase in stiffness from the AALs.

Originally posted by Goliath the X
The shackles will make the springs sag quicker, so be leary of them...
I wouldn't COMPLETELY agree with this comment at face value. Here is why:

Extended shackles have been utilized for years on many lifts without ill effects on the springs. However, you need a decent spring pack to start with, something the X is lacking OEM. If you have a spring pack that is progressive and has the proper spring rate and extra inch or even two on the shackle will not flatten or destroy the springs. Take a look at the SLR spring pack that has 10(?) progressive springs on each side and tell me it will be flattened by a 1 inch shackle, I don't think so.

I'm currently brushing up on spring technology and doing some various things that I hope to have some results to post soon that will be VERY encouraging in finding a proper balance with ride height, spring rate, load carrying capabilities, and overall ride stiffness.

Originally posted by Craigs_Tonka
I wouldn't COMPLETELY agree with this comment at face value. Here is why:

Extended shackles have been utilized for years on many lifts without ill effects on the springs. However, you need a decent spring pack to start with, something the X is lacking OEM. If you have a spring pack that is progressive and has the proper spring rate and extra inch or even two on the shackle will not flatten or destroy the springs. Take a look at the SLR spring pack that has 10(?) progressive springs on each side and tell me it will be flattened by a 1 inch shackle, I don't think so.

What has happened in the dealers never-ending quest to provide a cushy Cadillac-esque ride, they have reduced the rebounding ability of the spring pack on leaf sprung vehicles. This has been a boon if you want suspension articulation. It allows more flexibility of the axle in question. But, it also makes a spring pack that sags quicker. Even installing an aftermarket spring pack may not solve the problem entirely, just prolong the life of the springs.

The idea is to try to reach a happy medium. Have a spring pack that provides flexibility but is stiff enough to last a reasonable time frame. But if you stiffen up the ride, the cushy soccer moms aren't going to like the truck-like ride. That's why it has to be done on the after-market. The factories job is to sell cars and trucks. It can't do that if the majority of those buying them don't like them. You wind up with an AMC Pacer.

The fact is, we put the Xs to far more torture than the average soccer mom ever will. Since they outnumber us, the factory will continue to cater to them. Now that the Nissans are getting some respect, it will be easier to cure these problems in the after-market. But the only way that occurs is if we continue to do exactly what we are doing. Let people know what problems there are and some enterprising individual will find a cure. America, what a country! :)

As for shackles, as long as you don't exceed 1.5" in extra length, it should have minimal effect on the leaf pack. But when you extend it 2" or more, you create problems. That effect generally will occur whether you have a good spring pack or not. It just takes longer on the good pack.

But the worst thing they do on an X is reduce departure angle. Now that I have lost the spare tire and hitch, I found that the rear shackles are now my ground draggers. Lengthening them will compound the problem.

Originally posted by Goliath the X
I've had the AALs in for about 6K miles with 16K total on the X.


Holy shit. I'm at about 65K now.

Originally posted by Craigs_Tonka

I'm currently testing a multiple AAL system with the stock spring pack and I think it will be a good compromise in price, lift, and longevity of the OEM pack.
question. what multiple AAL system are you testing? any feedback would be great. :D

Originally posted by steinism

question. what multiple AAL system are you testing? any feedback would be great. :D

Steinism, Mehdi has the Ranchos and is now fitting the Fab-techs in soon. So that is one option...

I'd love a dual set that was designed to go together.:)

Has anyone looked into "Re-arcing" the stock leaf springs? I know that they used to do this to muscle cars because it was cheaper than a new set of leaf springs.
Another option might be.. get a hold of a new leaf spring and measure it. Find out if any nissan hardbody pickups, pathfinders or anything else has the same over length but a different Arc height. And before you install them, put in urethane bushings.

Anyone try either one of these? Just tossing around some ideas.

L8r.
Ken

Originally posted by steinism

question. what multiple AAL system are you testing? any feedback would be great. :D I could tell you, but then I'd have to ..... well you know the rest, it's an old line and I stole it.

Seriously, I don't want to get into anything until I have all my testing done and results to report. But I'll keep you posted. :)

does anyone know what to do about an entire sagging right side of a wagoneer 4 wheel leaf, and where i could get such a thing for a 78 amc jeep

I put the SLR springs on at 31K. Now have 72K. No problems, no sagging.

Toy Man

does anyone know what to do about an entire sagging right side of a wagoneer 4 wheel leaf, and where i could get such a thing for a 78 amc jeep

Wrong forum, dude :screwy:

Try http://jeepsunlimited.com/forums/index.php

You could try www.customsuspension.com
There online store has 100's of stock springs, custom leaf springs and lift springs available.

If all else fails find your nearest spring shop and get them to re-arch and add-a-leaf, that should be cheap enough.

Can this be done without lifting the truck?

Can what exactly be done without lifting the truck? Replacing the springs?
Do you mean lifting it as in needing to use a jack and jackstands, or as in the work resulting in a truck that sits higher after it is completed?

New springs of any type, including new OEM spring packs, will result in some sort of increased height in the rear vs. the old worn out springs. They will settle in a bit initially, so don't be too alarmed if it looks too high at first, but how high it is in the end depends on what springs you're using.

Replacing the springs requires a jack and jackstands, two sets of jackstands (a short set and a tall set) are best.
Remove the spare tire. I suggest you loosen the bolts at either end of the leaf spring while the vehicle is still on the ground, it might take some brute strength and I'm not keen on making the whole truck shake while under it on jackstands... Get the U-bolt nuts and lower shock bolt while you're at it if you like.

Lift the rear using the stock jack under the leaf spring U-bolt plates (normal location per owner's manual) so you can remove the wheels, place the short jackstands under the axle tubes towards the middle of the axle as low as you can and still leave adequate room to work at the underside of the leaf spring U-bolt plate. No sense having the truck any higher than necessary as you work, and the lower the axle is, the less you'll have to lift the frame in the next step.
Now that the axle is supported, place the jack under the frame rail under the rear door area and lift the frame until the axle tube is about to come off the short jackstands, then place a tall jackstand under the frame to support it at that height, the object is to have little to no tension on the springs, the axle's weight should be on the short jackstands. You should then be able to remove the leaf spring without too much fuss. When installing the new spring, you may have to lift the frame a little higher due to the increased arch raising the end of the spring a bit.

Brent

Sorry, I was trying to reply to Vaderx's suggestion of using a Calmini add a leaf set, but it put me at the end of the thread. I just bought new bilsteins and I wanted to know if it was possible to increase the load capacity without giving the rear a lift and extending shocks too far.

AALs will raise the rear. If you want stock height but higher load capacity, you'll need a custom spring pack made.
That, or add a set of helper air bags that you can inflate when needed.