Insight versus Prius

Toyota and Honda have both picked up the pace in their quest to remain on top in the automotive market place of the future. While the big money maker of the future will most likely be fuel cell technology, both have released hybrid gas-electric cars as a transitional step towards the fuel cell, which is still indisposed, in a long-standing period of research and development.

The two competitors have taken different approaches the the gas-electric hybrid. Toyota has released the Prius, which aims at being a less-compromising hybrid, with four doors and the power equivalent of a small four-cylinder economy car. Honda's Insight is a much smaller two-door, with a sharp exterior that combines new edge styling with a low drag coefficient (it's so easy to tell that I am Honda-biased, isn't it? :) ) to aid in its excellent fuel economy stats (the Insight averages about 70 miles per gallon - roughly 50% more than the Prius).

These opposing approaches to the same problem illustrate to me it is not a simple issue, and that the right marketing approach will probably be the key to gathering a following of the hybrid, and making it a success. This will in turn get those more environmentally-conscious than the average American citizen primed and ready for the future of automotive technology, even if it means sacrificing some comfort and performance for the cause of slowing our fossil fuel depletion. And time will tell which approach has been more successful:

Toyota, who attempts the guise the hybrid as a normal car, giving it all the size and roughly the power of its hydrocarbon-consuming peer group.

Honda, who makes the statement that it is a hybrid and it is different.

While Honda's novelty approach may not collect the same token appreciation as the Prius, which minimizes the differences and therefore the transition between gas-powered to hybrid, its bold differences may give it the marketing edge it needs to come out on top.

Edited by: JD@af

nice post JD.
but i just think that both of these hybrids are VERY ugly.
this is the UGLY Insight:
http://www.honda2001.com/models/insight/images/photos/3-big.jpg
and this is the EVEN UGLIER (how far can we go?!) Prius:
http://prius.toyota.com/images/exterior/aqua_car.jpg

if someone could actually make a Good-Looking hybrid, then they will dominate this tiny yet important for the future market. :)

This is the Honda Spocket Concept. I don't think it's ugly...only problem is that it's a concept.
http://209.132.49.149/images-large/2000_honda_spoket-1.jpg

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"Ferrari isn't a car, it's a lifestyle"
-Enzo Ferrari.

Yeah I like the Sprocket. It's got potential. Nice, very effective little body design. And from what I've heard, it could actually happen. Like the S2000, a well-mated package of handling, balance... and not very much power, but ripe for engine swapping and performance tuning for the enthusiast.

Hummm. It seems as though an engine swap would require quite a bit of tuning. The front wheels are powered by a small gas engine but each rear wheel has an electric motor powering it. So, in essence, it's AWD is actually a FWD, Left-RWD, and right-RWD. Changing stuff up front might mean altering each part of the rear.

It seems mildly absurd to swap an engine into a car that is designed for fuel efficiency rather than sport. I suppose if you are dead set on the looks it's not so bad, but just seems odd...like shoehorning a 427 into a Geo Metro.

But, to each his own.

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"Ferrari isn't a car, it's a lifestyle"
-Enzo Ferrari.

do you see the seatbelt??
it sure isn't supposed to be you next Geo Metro :D
It would be interesting if Honda themselves take this car to the racing direction

Enzo

You're right that it would be a difficult hybrid to build up, but I am willing to bet with assurance that it will be done. Yes, it will defeat the purpose of the hybrid theory, but I for one really like the way it looks, and I gather that there are many others out there that do too. Especially the gull-wing doors give it a very classy image (there are Honda owners who have paid $5,000+.. even up to $10,000, to have their Civics, Integras, etc. customized with gull wing doors!).

Seems to me that this small, race-bred design will inevitably be coined as the next generation CRX, different though it may be, but as having a small, light body that enthusiasts can throw heavily blown, small engines (picture a B16A1 with forged internals and high boost turbo kit) into to make it a drag racing champion.

Who knows, it might even have the weight distribution to still handle decently with a fairly light engine up front like the B16A (and one of the beautiful things about turbos is that they really don't weigh much at all). At least while its new, this car will be much more of an attention-getter than the S2000 and slammed Honda "hoopdies." But who wants the new car that is trendy and cool-looking, but a slug in reality (think the PT Cruiser)?

Edited by: JD@af

gull wing doors?

what are those

are u talkin about the lambo doors on the sprocket?

i've heard of ppl getting these conversions on their hondas

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00 Honda Accord coupe EX V6 SS
aem cai, WW 3-piece midwing, clears

I see the seat belts and I'm sure you could build it up. But the way I see it....

The Pontiac Aztek had big old cross drilled rotors as a concept. Goodbye in production. Concepts don't always reflect the true nature of the beast. It is being displayed as a sports car, but maybe it is just a low performance, cool looking econobox.

Of course it can be made fast. If a Civic can break into 8's, anything can be fast. But why? I just don't see any reason other than doing the work to get it there. I guess I'm just not into small displacement to the same extent as others.

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"Ferrari isn't a car, it's a lifestyle"
-Enzo Ferrari.

VTEC V6

Yeah, gull wing doors refer to those that swing upwards. I think the advent of the term was with the old 1956 Mercedes SL 600 (I think that was the name). Lambo doors are considered gull wing.

I think the term you're looking for is scissor-wing doors. they pivot at the front and swing open like scissor blades. Gull-wing doors hinge at the top and look like wings when they're open.

autofan: There's nothing ugly about 70 mpg when gas costs $3 a gallon this summer!

I like them both. Hooray for new technology!

Your lucky we pay $1.21 a litre for super I think you times it by 3.98 to get a US gallon and 4.55 for our old gallon.

I found this abandoned thread and decided to add my own take to it! :D

I personally am more partial to the Prius. But then again, I look for practicality for everyday life...

Think about it... 4 doors, 50 mpg (which far surpasses the 35mpg I get in my 5-spd on the highway!) I think that it's a great little car despite the body shape being like the Echo!

As for the Insight: 2 doors is very impractical. The 68mpg it gets for the 5-spd on the highway is spectacular, but not very comfortable for travel... damn...

Personally, if you want a SULEV (which the Insight is only a ULEV in 2 versions) I say go for the Prius, or better yet, go ZEV with GM's EV1!!!!

EV1: 2 doors, very aerodynamic, and the Gen II batteries will last you up to 130 miles on one charge!!!

Lastly, I personally am excited about Honda's Dualnote! I mean, a 4-door sports car with 17 Km/L and a monstrous 400 HP??? And the 2 rear doors are nearly invisible--almost look shaved! Now there's a little car for ya! ;)

Originally posted by JD@af
VTEC V6

Yeah, gull wing doors refer to those that swing upwards. I think the advent of the term was with the old 1956 Mercedes SL 600 (I think that was the name). Lambo doors are considered gull wing.

actually, gullwings are from the 1955 mercedes benz 300sl, and lambo doors are not gullwing, they are considered "scissors"style

so far.. all the hybrids i have seen are disgusting and make me want to puke....


exept for the.... you guessed it.... civic hybrid!!!! it has the clean lines of a civic combined with the sulev engine of an insight or a prius... the best of both worlds

And now you have the civic hybrid power train in a 4 door civic...


gunnmen01

2004 prius?
can use both electric motor and gas motor at the same time, giving it combined power and a 0-60 of 9.8 seconds

honda's hybrids only use gas or electric but not both at the same time

insight MT - only ULEV! but it gets better mpg than the insight CVT which is SULEV

insight CVT - uses belt and cone CVT, SULEV, and is slower than the MT insight, and costs more i think

prius gets 90% fewer emissions than ULEV
and it uses a planetary gear CVT, which i think is far more superior.

prius=comes standard with a touch screen LCD
also, its front passenger seat folds all the way down, then the back seat folds on that, and then you have 8 feet of storage space. try that with an insight!

and also... car and driver's 30,000 mile test for the insight got an average of 48mpg.

lets wait and see what the 04's 30k mile test gets ne?

[QUOTE=lillucas]2004 prius?
can use both electric motor and gas motor at the same time, giving it combined power and a 0-60 of 9.8 seconds

Be that 9.8 or as I mentioned from test, 10.5 seconds, for one virtue
only I shall look at Insight with praise and envy and that be manual shift gear, that synergy of shift/engine is bliss I will in Prius seriously miss.



:p

the planetary gear cvt that works like a differential, in theory, should be quicker than a manual transmission. plus it looses all the weight of a manual transmission too, since it is shift-by-wire

personally i have never used a manual, but it probably is more fun than automatic

but the insight's MT is only ULEV :( which doesnt compare to the other hybrids

personally i have never used a manual, but it probably is more fun than automatic

Dear lillucas,

I'm advocate of all Prius II benefits.

I will drive the same regardless of gear concept because time has come where man will either step boldly with sane thinking or will face as always in history most painful evolutionary way.

No offense but, in the very essence of driving sensation that shapes the very emotion of blending with machine and engine breaking, you haven't drive a car if you haven't drive that car with manual shift.

Please experience that in near future. But stay with Prius, naturally

easy
http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/10714502IOB130916737A.jpg

because the prius has 2 engines and is just like a normal car
and it gets 800 miles to the tank


The insight has only 2 seats and it has a big fuel cell in the back elimnitaning the cargo space and the insight just plainly sucks hummers.

easy
because the prius has 2 engines and is just like a normal car and it gets 800 miles to the tank
The insight has only 2 seats and it has a big fuel cell in the back elimnitaning the cargo space and the insight just plainly sucks hummers.


Hm, and this be related to what? :sly:

Thread opened in 2000...reopened in jan 2003 and now reopened again.


Please refrain from bringing back dead threads.

Closed.