Stupid Argument Of Imports

What's up forum its MIke again.....basically this is simple alot of my friends are huge import fans, I'm not. I am totally pro american muscle, and today we all got into this huge argument over a firebird and a honda civic and how if you turbo charged the civic it would smoke a firebird??? lol so I was wondering if someone could give me some tech stats on the fastest hondas stock against stock firebirds and also your thoughts on this bullshit. Their best claim, is that the hondas are lighter lol....so I said thats like saying you could take a bike that you pedal and beat my mustang 5.0...BECAUSE ITS LIGHTER lol anyways leave lots of replies thanks

First is it a trans am or not? second I dont think a civic could beat a firebird with a turbo alone...mabye a whole turbo kit with other mods, then it would be close. Yes what they do say about the lighter is true, but to a certaint extent. But why argue over a turbo civic, it doesnt exist, not from the factory. Why didnt you come back with "well what if the bird was turbo'd" then it would smoke the s**t out of a turbo'd civic. I hate when importers try to argue outragous claims like that. But if thats your thing...

most civics weight around 2300 pounds, i think, and the 3rd gen fbody is probobly around 3300, but the 4th are probobly a lil lighter like 3000, or something like that, but the difference in power with twice as many cylinders should make up for it... civics are around 17second cars i think and fbodys are nomrally alot quicker then that...

just go online and find time slips of a stock firebird and a stock civic and show that to them... or atleast get the power to weight ratio on them and compare that...but either way you should win the argument

Just ask them how many imports are in the 5's in the 1/4.

Ask them how many Civics are still FWD with 4's running 6's.

I know street driven Firebirds running 9's on the tires they drove there on. Line up and go, right into the 9's Not many imports doing that.

Imports are a different style, and they are catching up quickly.

Here is some import info for ya. A 88 CRX HF has the most potential when engine swaps come in. They weigh 1800lbs and with a 160hp-170hp (depending on which car it came from) b16a swaped in with a J1 trans they are quite capable of low 14's with decent traction with a All Stock b16a swaped in to a 88-89 CRX HF with bolt ons and cams 13's are possible with slicks. As far as Totaly stock and no engine swaps a 88-89CRX Si can run some mid 15's with just a intake and cat back the 90-91 were slower cause of safety equipment and all wheel discs. A CRX SIR would throw down some high 14's all stock. The Integra Type R will run high 14's bone stock. Integra GSR runs mid 15's bone stock and with bolt ons can hit 14's. I think the S2000 runs low 14's or high 13's stock. The 92-95 civic HB,88-91 civic HB(hatchback) and the 88-91 CRX are the best FWD Honda to mod due to thje light weight..1800lbs -2300lbs(95Si). The thing that also makes these cars quick for 4cyl is the final drive gearing as most are i.e. 4.25 or Higher. Your averaged zit faced teen drives a coupe or sedan witha weak 1.5 and probably runs a whopping 16 or 17et. BTW all these times are with N/A engines and NO TURBO and would be with a avg or good driver.

As far as Civic vs T/A I think a that a CRX Si has plenty of potental to beat most 5.0 liter T/A. I would say that most b16a swapped Civic HB/CRX will beat most any all stock 5.0 &5.7 82-92 T/A. I think the LT1 and LS1 would still beat most b16a Civics unless its a tired LT1. I know were talking mostly hondas vs F body but a WRX has all the potential to beat a LT1...it would be a drivers race then. if it were a Road Course race I would say that a CRX/Civic would have the advantage over the T/A. Hondas really shine on road course as Honda spent a lot of money into the double wishbone suspension from 88-02 but the RWD has the adavantage on drag strip as they tend to be tough but I heard the new F-bodys rear is a lot weaker than the old 8.5'' 10 bolt.

Being a owner of a F body and owning a few civics Id say its wiser to daily drive a car that gets a 25mpg and runs 14's and handles turns with ease. Its cheaper on insurance alot if under 25. But I think its awesome to have bad ass american iron in the garage ready for summer cruise ins. The V8 torque and lower rpm hp is awesome but the 82-86 carbed T/A were a dissapointment. I hope I helped educate a lil about imports. BTW the fast ones are usualy always sleepers that look like economy cars and not some NASA project.

Just ask them how many imports are in the 5's in the 1/4.

Ask them how many Civics are still FWD with 4's running 6's.

I know street driven Firebirds running 9's on the tires they drove there on. Line up and go, right into the 9's Not many imports doing that.

Imports are a different style, and they are catching up quickly.


I dont see too many 9second daily driven v8 cars...maybe one I see is a Turboed 5.0 stang. There a handfull of 9 second Hondas these days and even 10second N/A civics now. The fastest daily driven hondas maybe push 12's with a b18c or b20 turboed in a HB or CRX. Yes they are a different style and its amazing how there catchin up. They will probably stay around since most muscle cars are not practical to drive everyday and even big companys like Edelbrock make parts for Hondas now. Doemestics are built tough well at least in the 67-81 F bodys. The 93+ were realy badass cars and the tecnology in the F body was great I think the 82-92 were just really lame except the trubo GTA. The 82-92 light weight for a muscle car makes it appealing for a all out drag car though :2cents: Scarry as it is Sport Compacts will be around for a lill while. If you dont like it blame the gas companys,suv buyers,insurance companys and lack of people buying the last real muscle cars. RIP F Body

it'll take a lot for an import to beat a firebird. why do you think they make different classes for different cars? geesh.

Well not just "IMPORTS" in general...Honda...civic esspesially. Supra/RX-7/3000GT/300ZX are very very close competitors.

The turbo edition of the Supra, 3000gt, and the 300zx would be a close competitor but not the n/t versions. I've never viewed the RX-7 as a reliable car but stock for stock its not to far from being close to a stock TA

I guess it depends what you mean when you say import. European cars are amazing (BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Aston Martin, Lotus, Ferarri).

Japan has some very nice cars, WRX, Lancer, Skyline, Supra, (I loved the last of the RX-7's).

As for 9 second daily driven domestics, I do know of 1 in my town of 30,000 people. I know a couple 10 second daily's as well, and there isn't a civic that runs faster then 14 that I've seen yet or even heard of yet.

As for the person who said the new F-bodies were around 3000lbs they curb at 3400 I believe. Lightest F-body since my First Gen. (3660lbs race weight with full tank).

The cheapest go fast cars are:

Domestic: Late 80's 5.0 Mustang
Import: Talon/Laser/Ecplispe (first gen)

I have a friend with a 91 Laser and it is damn fast.

I can tell you my GTA is no lightweight. It tops the scale at 3600 lbs. The car has a few extras other F-bodies don't have which makes it a bit heavier by about 100 lbs.
As far as comparing f-bodies and imports goes, the v8s depend on low end torque which is was moves the car, while others boast on high HP numbers in the high RPM range. I much rather see 200HP/300TQ at low/mid RPMs than 300HP/200TQ at high RPM.

-Ozzy

I dont see why there is a argument, Look at it this way, if it wasnt for those turbo's or super chargers no import could touch a f-body NO CHANCE!

This is dumb, you dont see a f-body with a turbo or a supercharger. I think that the import guys need to realize that they have no chance to beat a f-body. Make the same rules for everyone Turbo Vs. Turbo or Super charged Vs. Super charged . Id love to see a supra keep up with a 2002 Trans am with a turbo! :disappoin not a chance Dream on rice burners! :lol:

What about racing the Supra at a roll? Turbo Supra's are amazing for racing at a roll (30mph-160mph).

Remember certain engines like certain upgrades better. The Supra's Inline 6 loves Turbo's. A Trans Am might be better suited to either a SC or a Cam/Head package to get more power.

I personally love the F-body. I love my Firebird because it is a classic muscle car, but some cars can be built fast and quick.

What about a Trans Am vs. a Skyline on a course?

How about your Camaro in a rally course?

Different cars for different purposes. Japan does put out some high caliber cars, the problem is that economy car owners think their car is the same as a WRX or Viper.

I've heard a kid I went to school with arguing that his Neon was better then a Civic because it was made by the same company who makes the Viper. I mean really, if its an economy car its an economy car no matter what the pedigree.

You're Civic is not a sports car, and neither is your Neon, Sunfire, Cavalier, Focus or Beatle.

Yeah but if your gonna imply the nonturbo versions of the supra/rx-7/ etc... then you hve to compare it to the firebird. If you wanna go up to the top model trans am, then you gotta get the top trip imports...i.e. turbo...but trans am still rules.

really, add a turbo to a trans am, yeah you are going to push tons more power, What does a supra have with out a turbo basically a stock civic with a nicer body :lol: I know i will get shit for that one LMAO :rofl: :evillol: :lol: :iceslolan

imports can be good but they have no torque at all that is why muscle cars will almost always be faster then imports

and the fact that they are rw drive

and the way i see how fast a car is, is how fast they are naturally aspirerd (without nos turbos or blowers)

by looking at it that way domestics usually come out on top some imports are close some europeans are closer it also depends what years your comparing most of the time the technology stock is 10 years apart

like a person comparing a 02 s200 to a 80's fox body...what about a 80's honda what were they doing back then?

...what about a 80's honda what were they doing back then?


Winning Forumla 1 races (something no American manufactor has ever done) and selling cars to the 95% of the worlds population who dont live in America, unlike your american "muscle cars" which have never been, and never will be popular outside of the US. And for the record the 15millionth Civic was produced this year, significantly more than all the great muscle cars combined.



The only thing in this thread theat makes any sense is the title, it is indeed a "stupid argument".

A true car enthusiast like's all cars, they may like some more than others, but to hate one for no rational reason is simple bigotry.

Thread closed.