World Series Champs this year?
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KrNxRaCer00
10-02-2003, 04:42 AM
who's going to win it all this year?
my vote is for the A's, but i WISH the fish (marlins) would win it all...
my vote is for the A's, but i WISH the fish (marlins) would win it all...
Toksin
10-02-2003, 04:45 AM
Why do they call it the world series when only American teams play?
KrNxRaCer00
10-02-2003, 04:51 AM
Why do they call it the world series when only American teams play?
hrmmm...why do they call the super bowl the super bowl?
they consider the champions of the nba, nfl an nhl leagues "world champions" of the sport.
one possiblility is the fact that american sports are open to all countries around the world (to play for the teams). most of the sports are very diverse, an the best players around the world play in the leagues. thas jus one opinion tho...
hrmmm...why do they call the super bowl the super bowl?
they consider the champions of the nba, nfl an nhl leagues "world champions" of the sport.
one possiblility is the fact that american sports are open to all countries around the world (to play for the teams). most of the sports are very diverse, an the best players around the world play in the leagues. thas jus one opinion tho...
Toksin
10-02-2003, 04:59 AM
hrmmm...why do they call the super bowl the super bowl?
they consider the champions of the nba, nfl an nhl leagues "world champions" of the sport.
Figures. Only American teams, but they consider them WORLD CHAMPIONS of their sports. Oh wait, that's right, the American map of the world is the USA, Alaska and Hawaii.
they consider the champions of the nba, nfl an nhl leagues "world champions" of the sport.
Figures. Only American teams, but they consider them WORLD CHAMPIONS of their sports. Oh wait, that's right, the American map of the world is the USA, Alaska and Hawaii.
zebrathree
10-02-2003, 05:06 AM
Well it looks like Im Duke Zebra of Tittievillie then.
KrNxRaCer00
10-02-2003, 05:08 AM
thats a pretty ignorant statement to make if u truly believe it.
read wut i wrote in my post. there are the best players from AROUND THE WORLD on the teams, therefore, that would most likely be the best team in the world.
read wut i wrote in my post. there are the best players from AROUND THE WORLD on the teams, therefore, that would most likely be the best team in the world.
YogsVR4
10-02-2003, 08:33 AM
Figures. Only American teams, but they consider them WORLD CHAMPIONS of their sports. Oh wait, that's right, the American map of the world is the USA, Alaska and Hawaii.
Yes they are WORLD CHAMPIONS. The title is MLB WORLD CHAMPION. You want to sponser a team for the league then do it.
As for the American map of the world. That was a stupid comment. Aside from being snide, you are wrong. There are teams from Canada in the league as well.
Yes they are WORLD CHAMPIONS. The title is MLB WORLD CHAMPION. You want to sponser a team for the league then do it.
As for the American map of the world. That was a stupid comment. Aside from being snide, you are wrong. There are teams from Canada in the league as well.
GTStang
10-02-2003, 08:44 AM
Why do they call it the world series when only American teams play?
Drop the chip on ya shoulder please.
In all American professional leagues the NFL,NBA,MLB,NHL the world's best players are more than welcome to play if they are good enough. Teams just want to win and will do anything to get the best players they can. If you do not believe that than how do you explain all the hassle the Rockets went through to get Yao. In these leagues everyone knows that is where the WORLD'S best athletes play. Hence why Nomo would go to all the pain of having to retire from Japanese baseball just so he could play in MLB. All these leagues are truly global now and it is reflected by the rosters. This is why they are World Championships.
Yes I understand ya complaints about no teams being outside of N. America. But you know that this makes no sense logistically.
The Red Sox will win the World Series!
Drop the chip on ya shoulder please.
In all American professional leagues the NFL,NBA,MLB,NHL the world's best players are more than welcome to play if they are good enough. Teams just want to win and will do anything to get the best players they can. If you do not believe that than how do you explain all the hassle the Rockets went through to get Yao. In these leagues everyone knows that is where the WORLD'S best athletes play. Hence why Nomo would go to all the pain of having to retire from Japanese baseball just so he could play in MLB. All these leagues are truly global now and it is reflected by the rosters. This is why they are World Championships.
Yes I understand ya complaints about no teams being outside of N. America. But you know that this makes no sense logistically.
The Red Sox will win the World Series!
TexasF355F1
10-02-2003, 09:43 AM
In the N.L. I'm going for the Marlins. The A.L. I'm not really sure, but I think I'm gonna go with the Red Sox. It would be interesting to see The Sox and The Cubs though since neither have won in so long. But I would want the Cubs to lose b/c I can't stand Sam "THE CORK" Sosa. And while I like a lot of players on the Giants Bonds just pisses me off b/c he's roided up like a mofo. I'm still pissed the Astros chocked. And they did it to the f-ing Brewers.
freakray
10-02-2003, 10:02 AM
But you know that this makes no sense logistically.
Justify that statement please :eek7:
In rugby, soccer, cricket, field hockey, mountain biking, road cycling and who knows how many other sports the WORLD champions are decided by the countries sending teams to one tournament to compete(Hence the World Cup which determines the World Champion).
There are players from all over the world playing in the English Premier league but the team that wins the league title is NOT the World champion, the are the league champion.
By the theory according to Americans, that team should be the World champion, right?
I mean, Man. U have some of the best players in the World, so rightfully if they win the title they represent the best players in the World so are justifiably World champions.
Well, now there is no longer a need for the Soccer World Cup.
Yogs, the Southern Hemisphere Tri-Nations is competed in by teams from Australia, New Zealand and South Africa, by your theory the team that wins the Tri-Nations is the World Champion, right?
So now there is no longer a need for a Rugby world cup to determine the world champion then.
English county cricket is another league with players from all over the world, so according to the American theory displayed here, the county cricket champions are the World champions, right?
Wait, how can that be, there are foreign cricketers playing at the top level in South Africa too, so the winners of the league there should be the World champion! Oh hell!!
Face it, I can stretch this as far as you can stretch it, the fact that American league champions call themselves the World Champions is a self-given title and means nothing anywhere else but in America.
Justify that statement please :eek7:
In rugby, soccer, cricket, field hockey, mountain biking, road cycling and who knows how many other sports the WORLD champions are decided by the countries sending teams to one tournament to compete(Hence the World Cup which determines the World Champion).
There are players from all over the world playing in the English Premier league but the team that wins the league title is NOT the World champion, the are the league champion.
By the theory according to Americans, that team should be the World champion, right?
I mean, Man. U have some of the best players in the World, so rightfully if they win the title they represent the best players in the World so are justifiably World champions.
Well, now there is no longer a need for the Soccer World Cup.
Yogs, the Southern Hemisphere Tri-Nations is competed in by teams from Australia, New Zealand and South Africa, by your theory the team that wins the Tri-Nations is the World Champion, right?
So now there is no longer a need for a Rugby world cup to determine the world champion then.
English county cricket is another league with players from all over the world, so according to the American theory displayed here, the county cricket champions are the World champions, right?
Wait, how can that be, there are foreign cricketers playing at the top level in South Africa too, so the winners of the league there should be the World champion! Oh hell!!
Face it, I can stretch this as far as you can stretch it, the fact that American league champions call themselves the World Champions is a self-given title and means nothing anywhere else but in America.
YogsVR4
10-02-2003, 10:43 AM
....
There are players from all over the world playing in the English Premier league but the team that wins the league title is NOT the World champion, the are the league champion.
By the theory according to Americans, that team should be the World champion, right?
I mean, Man. U have some of the best players in the World, so rightfully if they win the title they represent the best players in the World so are justifiably World champions.
Well, now there is no longer a need for the Soccer World Cup.
Yogs, the Southern Hemisphere Tri-Nations is competed in by teams from Australia, New Zealand and South Africa, by your theory the team that wins the Tri-Nations is the World Champion, right?
So now there is no longer a need for a Rugby world cup to determine the world champion then.
English county cricket is another league with players from all over the world, so according to the American theory displayed here, the county cricket champions are the World champions, right?
Wait, how can that be, there are foreign cricketers playing at the top level in South Africa too, so the winners of the league there should be the World champion! Oh hell!!
Face it, I can stretch this as far as you can stretch it, the fact that American league champions call themselves the World Champions is a self-given title and means nothing anywhere else but in America.
You need to reread my original post again. They are the world champions of their league. For goodness sakes it’s a frigging title. If the Tri-Nation whatevers want to call their winner the WORLD CHAMPIONS then go to it. The title is not self given by Americans, it’s given by the league for self promotion.
Good grief. I’ve never seen so many people get so anal over a sports league's title. :disappoin
There are players from all over the world playing in the English Premier league but the team that wins the league title is NOT the World champion, the are the league champion.
By the theory according to Americans, that team should be the World champion, right?
I mean, Man. U have some of the best players in the World, so rightfully if they win the title they represent the best players in the World so are justifiably World champions.
Well, now there is no longer a need for the Soccer World Cup.
Yogs, the Southern Hemisphere Tri-Nations is competed in by teams from Australia, New Zealand and South Africa, by your theory the team that wins the Tri-Nations is the World Champion, right?
So now there is no longer a need for a Rugby world cup to determine the world champion then.
English county cricket is another league with players from all over the world, so according to the American theory displayed here, the county cricket champions are the World champions, right?
Wait, how can that be, there are foreign cricketers playing at the top level in South Africa too, so the winners of the league there should be the World champion! Oh hell!!
Face it, I can stretch this as far as you can stretch it, the fact that American league champions call themselves the World Champions is a self-given title and means nothing anywhere else but in America.
You need to reread my original post again. They are the world champions of their league. For goodness sakes it’s a frigging title. If the Tri-Nation whatevers want to call their winner the WORLD CHAMPIONS then go to it. The title is not self given by Americans, it’s given by the league for self promotion.
Good grief. I’ve never seen so many people get so anal over a sports league's title. :disappoin
freakray
10-02-2003, 11:41 AM
You need to reread my original post again. They are the world champions of their league. For goodness sakes it’s a frigging title. If the Tri-Nation whatevers want to call their winner the WORLD CHAMPIONS then go to it. The title is not self given by Americans, it’s given by the league for self promotion.
You need to reread my original post again. Especially the last few lines.....
I was mocking the whole 'world champion' thing.....just because they want to call themselves the world champions doesn't mean I recognise or respect it.
You need to reread my original post again. Especially the last few lines.....
I was mocking the whole 'world champion' thing.....just because they want to call themselves the world champions doesn't mean I recognise or respect it.
jon@af
10-02-2003, 02:15 PM
GO CUBS!!!!!!!!!!! :sunglasse :thumbsup:
trevolutionist
10-02-2003, 04:42 PM
World Champions League Champions... WHO THE FUCK CARES? Damn guys, you're more grown up than this. Let everyone have their own opinions and respect the things they want or don't respect what they don't want. You're not gonna convince the other side that they're wrong. It's like telling a racist that he's a pig... IT WON'T DO ANYTHING BUT PISS THEM OFF. Just let everyone believe what they want to believe and the world will go on.
Go Braves.
Go Braves.
ROB3000GTVR4
10-02-2003, 08:04 PM
World Champions League Champions... WHO THE FUCK CARES? Damn guys, you're more grown up than this. Let everyone have their own opinions and respect the things they want or don't respect what they don't want. You're not gonna convince the other side that they're wrong. It's like telling a racist that he's a pig... IT WON'T DO ANYTHING BUT PISS THEM OFF. Just let everyone believe what they want to believe and the world will go on.
Go Braves.
:iagree: but i think you ment go yankees.
Go Braves.
:iagree: but i think you ment go yankees.
Toksin
10-03-2003, 02:07 AM
It's so easy :evillol: :lol2:
TheNotoriousMogg
10-03-2003, 02:22 AM
I cannot get into baseball but I would like to see the A's :biggrin:
custmguru
10-03-2003, 12:33 PM
there are a minimum of 14 different countries represented in MLB. from japan, to china, to russia, to aruba. The Mariners had a guy last year who was an aussie cricket champion (but he got hurt and we havent heard from him in a while) the M's last year had 3 players from Japan (sasaki, suzuki, and hasegawa), 2 from venezuala (garcia and guillen) 2 from puerto rico (martinez and sanchez) we had a kid from aruba last year and the aussie, plus one or 2 guys from Canada. That means almost half of the team was not American. This next seasons prospects include a chinese shortstop, a young RHP from mexico, and i heard something about a feilder from bulgaria.
freakray
10-03-2003, 01:16 PM
there are a minimum of 14 different countries represented in MLB.
There are more countries than that represented in the English Premier League :dunno:
Off the top of my head:
England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, South Africa, Australia, Argentina, Peru, France, Spain, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Nigeria, Cameroon, Brasil, Sweden, Greece
Seems like the makings of a 'World Champion' league to me
There are more countries than that represented in the English Premier League :dunno:
Off the top of my head:
England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, South Africa, Australia, Argentina, Peru, France, Spain, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Nigeria, Cameroon, Brasil, Sweden, Greece
Seems like the makings of a 'World Champion' league to me
carrrnuttt
10-03-2003, 02:09 PM
I'm not really into baseball, and I do feel that the moniker "World Series" is a bit on the pretentious side, so I'll speak from the side of a sport I am more familiar with, basketball.
Even though the championship series in the NBA is simply the "NBA Finals", the winning team is still given the title "World Champs" in the end.
American professional basketball, in theory...and even in practice more lately...is open to ANYBODY with the corresponding skills to compete in the sport. ANYBODY means ANYBODY. As in an Australian aborigine, Mongolian tribesman, or whatever unlikely candidate that might find his way into US shores, with undeniable talent in basketball, who can find a proper way of displaying his skill, can potentially play in the NBA. You would then be a player for the team...but not the country.
World cup soccer is basically countries' different soccer representatives playing against each other for the World Cup. A highly-talented Moroccan player won't be starting for the German team, unless he emigrated to Germany and became a legal resident.
Both events (World Cup/NBA Finals) can be equally summarized as "the best-of-the-best from around the world competing against each other".
When the Olympics come around, most of the teams the USA basketball team usually have to compete against have some kind of NBA player playing against them. This is also true with Olympic Hockey and the NHL.
Major Leage Soccer champions were never given the pretentious title of "World Champions", knowing full well that they don't have the best that the world has to offer in that league. I bet the English league has a better collection of players.
The other American pro-sports have this claim though, IMHO, as far as talent-level goes.
Even though the championship series in the NBA is simply the "NBA Finals", the winning team is still given the title "World Champs" in the end.
American professional basketball, in theory...and even in practice more lately...is open to ANYBODY with the corresponding skills to compete in the sport. ANYBODY means ANYBODY. As in an Australian aborigine, Mongolian tribesman, or whatever unlikely candidate that might find his way into US shores, with undeniable talent in basketball, who can find a proper way of displaying his skill, can potentially play in the NBA. You would then be a player for the team...but not the country.
World cup soccer is basically countries' different soccer representatives playing against each other for the World Cup. A highly-talented Moroccan player won't be starting for the German team, unless he emigrated to Germany and became a legal resident.
Both events (World Cup/NBA Finals) can be equally summarized as "the best-of-the-best from around the world competing against each other".
When the Olympics come around, most of the teams the USA basketball team usually have to compete against have some kind of NBA player playing against them. This is also true with Olympic Hockey and the NHL.
Major Leage Soccer champions were never given the pretentious title of "World Champions", knowing full well that they don't have the best that the world has to offer in that league. I bet the English league has a better collection of players.
The other American pro-sports have this claim though, IMHO, as far as talent-level goes.
Deakins
10-03-2003, 02:38 PM
World cup soccer is basically countries' different soccer representatives playing against each other for the World Cup. A highly-talented Moroccan player won't be starting for the German team, unless he emigrated to Germany and became a legal resident.
Both events (World Cup/NBA Finals) can be equally summarized as "the best-of-the-best from around the world competing against each other".
Seeing as how basketball have pretty much been an American sport, the winner of the NBA finals are the worlds best basketball team. But professional basketball leauges are popping up all around the world,
so untill an international cup/series is created, featuring the best private teams from all around the world is compiting, there won't be a 'World Champ' in basketball. Much like the UEFA Champions League.
Both events (World Cup/NBA Finals) can be equally summarized as "the best-of-the-best from around the world competing against each other".
Seeing as how basketball have pretty much been an American sport, the winner of the NBA finals are the worlds best basketball team. But professional basketball leauges are popping up all around the world,
so untill an international cup/series is created, featuring the best private teams from all around the world is compiting, there won't be a 'World Champ' in basketball. Much like the UEFA Champions League.
freakray
10-03-2003, 02:58 PM
Seeing as how basketball have pretty much been an American sport, the winner of the NBA finals are the worlds best basketball team. But professional basketball leauges are popping up all around the world,
so untill an international cup/series is created, featuring the best private teams from all around the world is compiting, there won't be a 'World Champ' in basketball. Much like the UEFA Champions League.
Actually, I believe there is already a Basketball World Championships.
As for the UEFA Champions league, that's club championship, somewhat different I think as it only decides the best club in Europe, kind of like the African Nations Club only decides the best team in Africa.
so untill an international cup/series is created, featuring the best private teams from all around the world is compiting, there won't be a 'World Champ' in basketball. Much like the UEFA Champions League.
Actually, I believe there is already a Basketball World Championships.
As for the UEFA Champions league, that's club championship, somewhat different I think as it only decides the best club in Europe, kind of like the African Nations Club only decides the best team in Africa.
Deakins
10-03-2003, 03:14 PM
Actually, I believe there is already a Basketball World Championships.
But isn't that a competision between nations and not between the best teames from each nation?
As for the UEFA Champions league, that's club championship, somewhat different I think as it only decides the best club in Europe, kind of like the African Nations Club only decides the best team in Africa.
Bah, you're right. Ingorance on my part.
But there was/is a world cup for teams. Combining the winners of UEFA Champions League, Copa Libertadores etc.
But isn't that a competision between nations and not between the best teames from each nation?
As for the UEFA Champions league, that's club championship, somewhat different I think as it only decides the best club in Europe, kind of like the African Nations Club only decides the best team in Africa.
Bah, you're right. Ingorance on my part.
But there was/is a world cup for teams. Combining the winners of UEFA Champions League, Copa Libertadores etc.
freakray
10-03-2003, 03:25 PM
But isn't that a competision between nations and not between the best teames from each nation?
Doesn't it make more sense that the World Champion is the team representative of a country rather than the best club?
Look at some of the English Premiership teams, they have more players from outside of England than they do English players, the best collection of players doesn't represent a nation, only a club.
In my opinion, the team that is World Champion should represent a nation.
Doesn't it make more sense that the World Champion is the team representative of a country rather than the best club?
Look at some of the English Premiership teams, they have more players from outside of England than they do English players, the best collection of players doesn't represent a nation, only a club.
In my opinion, the team that is World Champion should represent a nation.
carrrnuttt
10-03-2003, 03:40 PM
Seeing as how basketball have pretty much been an American sport, the winner of the NBA finals are the worlds best basketball team. But professional basketball leauges are popping up all around the world,
so untill an international cup/series is created, featuring the best private teams from all around the world is compiting, there won't be a 'World Champ' in basketball. Much like the UEFA Champions League.
Like I said, the NBA has the "the best-of-the-best from around the world competing against each other". Just like in World Cup Soccer.
Don't know about baseball, but find me a team from anywhere in the world that can even beat last year's Western Conference runners-up, the Lakers, and I'll show you five players that can be playing FOR the Lakers (or any other NBA team), instead of against them. As a matter of fact, most of those caliber players already are.
Here's a scenario: You take the best players from the top-ranked World Cup teams, and form a team out of them. You then take that team and beat any other possible challengers, on teams formed from all available countries. If the original team beats everybody else in competition play, don't you think they deserve the title of "World Champs"? Regardless of what the name of their team is, or whatever country they are based out of.
Although it might sound arrogant, it just so happens that in particular types of sports, especially the more publicized ones, Americans have grown-up living these sports (since it originated in America), which just shows why a major percentage of Professional Players in these areas are American, although that percentage is getting smaller, as people around the world grow to love and play, these American sports.
Yes, Basketball, and Football, were all invented in America. Can't speak for Baseball, since I am not a big fan, but since it was considered "America's pasttime", I would assume that it was, also.
so untill an international cup/series is created, featuring the best private teams from all around the world is compiting, there won't be a 'World Champ' in basketball. Much like the UEFA Champions League.
Like I said, the NBA has the "the best-of-the-best from around the world competing against each other". Just like in World Cup Soccer.
Don't know about baseball, but find me a team from anywhere in the world that can even beat last year's Western Conference runners-up, the Lakers, and I'll show you five players that can be playing FOR the Lakers (or any other NBA team), instead of against them. As a matter of fact, most of those caliber players already are.
Here's a scenario: You take the best players from the top-ranked World Cup teams, and form a team out of them. You then take that team and beat any other possible challengers, on teams formed from all available countries. If the original team beats everybody else in competition play, don't you think they deserve the title of "World Champs"? Regardless of what the name of their team is, or whatever country they are based out of.
Although it might sound arrogant, it just so happens that in particular types of sports, especially the more publicized ones, Americans have grown-up living these sports (since it originated in America), which just shows why a major percentage of Professional Players in these areas are American, although that percentage is getting smaller, as people around the world grow to love and play, these American sports.
Yes, Basketball, and Football, were all invented in America. Can't speak for Baseball, since I am not a big fan, but since it was considered "America's pasttime", I would assume that it was, also.
Deakins
10-03-2003, 03:40 PM
Doesn't it make more sense that the World Champion is the team representative of a country rather than the best club?
Look at some of the English Premiership teams, they have more players from outside of England than they do English players, the best collection of players doesn't represent a nation, only a club.
In my opinion, the team that is World Champion should represent a nation.
Well, it certanly makes more sense than a team from the NBA calling themselves 'world champs' without facing the competition from other basket leagues.
Look at some of the English Premiership teams, they have more players from outside of England than they do English players, the best collection of players doesn't represent a nation, only a club.
In my opinion, the team that is World Champion should represent a nation.
Well, it certanly makes more sense than a team from the NBA calling themselves 'world champs' without facing the competition from other basket leagues.
carrrnuttt
10-03-2003, 03:48 PM
Well, it certanly makes more sense than a team from the NBA calling themselves 'world champs' without facing the competition from other basket leagues.
So, if say, Germany, won this league of yours' Championship, and the Dallas Mavericks happen to be the reigning NBA Champs, will Dirk Nowitski then have to play for the German team like he does in the Olympics?
If a US only team usually wins in Olympic-play, do you think a world-open NBA team won't be even better? Who'll beat them? Will you then import a player from the US into Germany's team?
Again, "the best-of-the-best from around the WORLD competing against each other"...
So, if say, Germany, won this league of yours' Championship, and the Dallas Mavericks happen to be the reigning NBA Champs, will Dirk Nowitski then have to play for the German team like he does in the Olympics?
If a US only team usually wins in Olympic-play, do you think a world-open NBA team won't be even better? Who'll beat them? Will you then import a player from the US into Germany's team?
Again, "the best-of-the-best from around the WORLD competing against each other"...
Deakins
10-03-2003, 03:57 PM
Like I said, the NBA has the "the best-of-the-best from around the world competing against each other". Just like in World Cup Soccer.
At the moment, they most likely are.
But who knows, there might be a team from another league capable of beating the winner of NBA.
Yugoslavia won agains the US in the 'Basketball World Championships', so who's to tell the atletic level isn't higher in the Yugoslavian basketball league than in the NBA?
At the moment, they most likely are.
But who knows, there might be a team from another league capable of beating the winner of NBA.
Yugoslavia won agains the US in the 'Basketball World Championships', so who's to tell the atletic level isn't higher in the Yugoslavian basketball league than in the NBA?
freakray
10-03-2003, 04:02 PM
So, if say, Germany, won this league of yours' Championship, and the Dallas Mavericks happen to be the reigning NBA Champs, will Dirk Nowitski then have to play for the German team like he does in the Olympics?
If a US only team usually wins in Olympic-play, do you think a world-open NBA team won't be even better? Who'll beat them? Will you then import a player from the US into Germany's team?
Again, "the best-of-the-best from around the WORLD competing against each other"...
I can't decide whether your post makes complete sense or not, but I will try to respond anyway.
The point of a national side is just that, it is the best players in the country.
Look at Quinton Fortuin, a South African who plays for Manchester United in the English Premier League, one of the strongest clubs out there, but at international level, he plays for South Africa, this means he represents South Africa in international competition, including the World Cup.
A nation's team represents their best players, you don't import a player from another country because he is better, that is what clubs do.
The teams you see in the Olympics are representative of the same, they are the best players from their respective country representing their country.
If you can understand the format by which the Olympics are contested, why is it difficult to grasp the concept of how the world champion is decided in just about every sport except American sports?
You're right "the best-of-the-best from around the WORLD competing against each other" is exactly what the World Cup/Championship is but the teams are representative of their countries thus deciding which country's national team has the right to call itself the world champions.
The top club in the country is just a national champion......
If a US only team usually wins in Olympic-play, do you think a world-open NBA team won't be even better? Who'll beat them? Will you then import a player from the US into Germany's team?
Again, "the best-of-the-best from around the WORLD competing against each other"...
I can't decide whether your post makes complete sense or not, but I will try to respond anyway.
The point of a national side is just that, it is the best players in the country.
Look at Quinton Fortuin, a South African who plays for Manchester United in the English Premier League, one of the strongest clubs out there, but at international level, he plays for South Africa, this means he represents South Africa in international competition, including the World Cup.
A nation's team represents their best players, you don't import a player from another country because he is better, that is what clubs do.
The teams you see in the Olympics are representative of the same, they are the best players from their respective country representing their country.
If you can understand the format by which the Olympics are contested, why is it difficult to grasp the concept of how the world champion is decided in just about every sport except American sports?
You're right "the best-of-the-best from around the WORLD competing against each other" is exactly what the World Cup/Championship is but the teams are representative of their countries thus deciding which country's national team has the right to call itself the world champions.
The top club in the country is just a national champion......
Deakins
10-03-2003, 04:11 PM
So, if say, Germany, won this league of yours' Championship, and the Dallas Mavericks happen to be the reigning NBA Champs, will Dirk Nowitski then have to play for the German team like he does in the Olympics?
Ok, that went right over my head.
Either way, I'm not arguing the winners of the NBA finals are the worlds best basketball team, but the winners of the 'NBA finals' calling themselves world campions without playing agains the winners of the German 'Bundesligen'
Ok, that went right over my head.
Either way, I'm not arguing the winners of the NBA finals are the worlds best basketball team, but the winners of the 'NBA finals' calling themselves world campions without playing agains the winners of the German 'Bundesligen'
Jay!
10-03-2003, 04:13 PM
I am the interweb king of the universe.
freakray
10-03-2003, 04:21 PM
Ok, that went right over my head.
Either way, I'm not arguing the winners of the NBA finals are the worlds best basketball team, but the winners of the 'NBA finals' calling themselves world campions without playing agains the winners of the German 'Bundesligen'
Exactly! Or any other league champion from any other country for that matter!
Either way, I'm not arguing the winners of the NBA finals are the worlds best basketball team, but the winners of the 'NBA finals' calling themselves world campions without playing agains the winners of the German 'Bundesligen'
Exactly! Or any other league champion from any other country for that matter!
carrrnuttt
10-03-2003, 04:33 PM
so who's to tell the atletic level isn't higher in the Yugoslavian basketball league than in the NBA?
Because if those theoretical Yugoslavian players of yours can really play at that theoretical level, THEY'D BE PLAYING IN THE NBA. Hence, WORLD.
Because if those theoretical Yugoslavian players of yours can really play at that theoretical level, THEY'D BE PLAYING IN THE NBA. Hence, WORLD.
carrrnuttt
10-03-2003, 04:57 PM
The top club in the country is just a national champion......
How much do you know about basketball?
Let's say the Dallas Mavericks won a championship (which they had a chance of doing last season), how could you possibly call them a "national" champion, when a lot of their players are citizens of a foreign country?
Tariq Abdul-Wahad - France
Steve Nash - Canada
Dirk Nowitski - Germany
Jon Steffanson - Iceland
Jim Welsch - Czech Republic
Eduardo Najera - Mexico
Raja Bell - Virgin Islands
Antoine Rigaudeau - France
That's just one team.
I understand that it is a bit presumptous, and I would agree with that...I also understand what you mean by Club play and National team play differences...but, a team comprised of the best the WORLD (as opposed to the NATION) has to offer, winning over the rest, also composed of such, is a World Champ to me.
Edit: For shits and giggles, here's the international players that are in the "World Champions" San Antonio Spurs' roster:
Tim Duncan - Virgin Islands
Emanuel Ginobili - Argentina
Mengke Bateer - China
Tony Parker - France
Three of those above are their better players, with all of the three getting some kind of starting-position last season.
How much do you know about basketball?
Let's say the Dallas Mavericks won a championship (which they had a chance of doing last season), how could you possibly call them a "national" champion, when a lot of their players are citizens of a foreign country?
Tariq Abdul-Wahad - France
Steve Nash - Canada
Dirk Nowitski - Germany
Jon Steffanson - Iceland
Jim Welsch - Czech Republic
Eduardo Najera - Mexico
Raja Bell - Virgin Islands
Antoine Rigaudeau - France
That's just one team.
I understand that it is a bit presumptous, and I would agree with that...I also understand what you mean by Club play and National team play differences...but, a team comprised of the best the WORLD (as opposed to the NATION) has to offer, winning over the rest, also composed of such, is a World Champ to me.
Edit: For shits and giggles, here's the international players that are in the "World Champions" San Antonio Spurs' roster:
Tim Duncan - Virgin Islands
Emanuel Ginobili - Argentina
Mengke Bateer - China
Tony Parker - France
Three of those above are their better players, with all of the three getting some kind of starting-position last season.
freakray
10-03-2003, 09:51 PM
How much do you know about basketball?
Let's say the Dallas Mavericks won a championship (which they had a chance of doing last season), how could you possibly call them a "national" champion, when a lot of their players are citizens of a foreign country?
Tariq Abdul-Wahad - France
Steve Nash - Canada
Dirk Nowitski - Germany
Jon Steffanson - Iceland
Jim Welsch - Czech Republic
Eduardo Najera - Mexico
Raja Bell - Virgin Islands
Antoine Rigaudeau - France
That's just one team.
I understand that it is a bit presumptous, and I would agree with that...I also understand what you mean by Club play and National team play differences...but, a team comprised of the best the WORLD (as opposed to the NATION) has to offer, winning over the rest, also composed of such, is a World Champ to me.
Edit: For shits and giggles, here's the international players that are in the "World Champions" San Antonio Spurs' roster:
Tim Duncan - Virgin Islands
Emanuel Ginobili - Argentina
Mengke Bateer - China
Tony Parker - France
Three of those above are their better players, with all of the three getting some kind of starting-position last season.
I used to play basketball at college.
How much do you know about soccer?
Here's one at YOUR 'for shits and giggles':
from Manchester United FC team roster:
Quinton Fortune - South Africa
Ryan Giggs - Wales
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer - Norway
Fabien Barthez - France
Roy Keane - Republic of Ireland
Mikael Silvestre - France
Eric Djemba-Djemba - Cameroon
Diego Forlan - Uraguay
Ricardo - Spain
Kleberson - Brasil
(not the full roster, see full roster here: http://www.manutd.com/teams/default.sps?iTeamID=458 )
So, using YOUR theory, the next time Manchester United FC win the league title they will be able to call themselves the WORLD champions and not just the league champions.
Do we need to continue this argument?
DISCLAIMER: Man U is being used as one example, I am NOT a Man U fan! Go the Saints!
Let's say the Dallas Mavericks won a championship (which they had a chance of doing last season), how could you possibly call them a "national" champion, when a lot of their players are citizens of a foreign country?
Tariq Abdul-Wahad - France
Steve Nash - Canada
Dirk Nowitski - Germany
Jon Steffanson - Iceland
Jim Welsch - Czech Republic
Eduardo Najera - Mexico
Raja Bell - Virgin Islands
Antoine Rigaudeau - France
That's just one team.
I understand that it is a bit presumptous, and I would agree with that...I also understand what you mean by Club play and National team play differences...but, a team comprised of the best the WORLD (as opposed to the NATION) has to offer, winning over the rest, also composed of such, is a World Champ to me.
Edit: For shits and giggles, here's the international players that are in the "World Champions" San Antonio Spurs' roster:
Tim Duncan - Virgin Islands
Emanuel Ginobili - Argentina
Mengke Bateer - China
Tony Parker - France
Three of those above are their better players, with all of the three getting some kind of starting-position last season.
I used to play basketball at college.
How much do you know about soccer?
Here's one at YOUR 'for shits and giggles':
from Manchester United FC team roster:
Quinton Fortune - South Africa
Ryan Giggs - Wales
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer - Norway
Fabien Barthez - France
Roy Keane - Republic of Ireland
Mikael Silvestre - France
Eric Djemba-Djemba - Cameroon
Diego Forlan - Uraguay
Ricardo - Spain
Kleberson - Brasil
(not the full roster, see full roster here: http://www.manutd.com/teams/default.sps?iTeamID=458 )
So, using YOUR theory, the next time Manchester United FC win the league title they will be able to call themselves the WORLD champions and not just the league champions.
Do we need to continue this argument?
DISCLAIMER: Man U is being used as one example, I am NOT a Man U fan! Go the Saints!
ROB3000GTVR4
10-03-2003, 09:57 PM
damn why you two can't just pick a baseball team and shut the hell up :iceslolan :p
freakray
10-03-2003, 10:04 PM
Because if those theoretical Yugoslavian players of yours can really play at that theoretical level, THEY'D BE PLAYING IN THE NBA. Hence, WORLD.
You may want to check your history, Yugoslavia won the Basketball World Championship 3 times in more recent history, beating the USA at least once to get to the finals.
In most recent history, Spain, Yugoslavia and Argentina helped knock the USA out of the World Championship competition.
Reading the squad fielded by the USA it was a who's-who of basketball too.
Sure, they only beat the USA out of 5th place, but they still beat the USA's 'best'
http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2002/0907/1428856.html
You may want to check your history, Yugoslavia won the Basketball World Championship 3 times in more recent history, beating the USA at least once to get to the finals.
In most recent history, Spain, Yugoslavia and Argentina helped knock the USA out of the World Championship competition.
Reading the squad fielded by the USA it was a who's-who of basketball too.
Sure, they only beat the USA out of 5th place, but they still beat the USA's 'best'
http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2002/0907/1428856.html
carrrnuttt
10-03-2003, 11:36 PM
So, using YOUR theory, the next time Manchester United FC win the league title they will be able to call themselves the WORLD champions and not just the league champions.
Can they call themselves the best collection of Soccer players the WORLD has to offer? If they can, maybe...but less so than NBA basketball, seeing that the NBA is more concentrated as far as world-wide talent goes. Soccer is just a LOT more diversified across the world than basketball is.
There is just no denying the fact that the NBA is a funnel, and what falls through is always the BEST the world has to offer.
Can they call themselves the best collection of Soccer players the WORLD has to offer? If they can, maybe...but less so than NBA basketball, seeing that the NBA is more concentrated as far as world-wide talent goes. Soccer is just a LOT more diversified across the world than basketball is.
There is just no denying the fact that the NBA is a funnel, and what falls through is always the BEST the world has to offer.
carrrnuttt
10-03-2003, 11:52 PM
You may want to check your history, Yugoslavia won the Basketball World Championship 3 times in more recent history, beating the USA at least once to get to the finals.
Ask yourself and the historians this: How many of the more productive of those Yugoslavians that won in 1998 are now playing or have been playing for the NBA?
Vlade Divac would be one of the better known ones.
http://www.geocities.com/internationalbasketballdirectory/serbia.html
In most recent history, Spain, Yugoslavia and Argentina helped knock the USA out of the World Championship competition.
Reading the squad fielded by the USA it was a who's-who of basketball too.
Sure, they only beat the USA out of 5th place, but they still beat the USA's 'best'
Thank you for making my point for me. The people playing in that tournament for the USA were the USA's best, as opposed the WORLD's best, which are the ones playing in the NBA. The teams that beat the USA had a few NBA players among them as well.
I personally think the USA team was saddled the most by their arrogance and short-sightedness in not realizing just how quickly the rest of the world has caught-up to US play, characterized by the proliferation of foreign players in the NBA.
Ask yourself and the historians this: How many of the more productive of those Yugoslavians that won in 1998 are now playing or have been playing for the NBA?
Vlade Divac would be one of the better known ones.
http://www.geocities.com/internationalbasketballdirectory/serbia.html
In most recent history, Spain, Yugoslavia and Argentina helped knock the USA out of the World Championship competition.
Reading the squad fielded by the USA it was a who's-who of basketball too.
Sure, they only beat the USA out of 5th place, but they still beat the USA's 'best'
Thank you for making my point for me. The people playing in that tournament for the USA were the USA's best, as opposed the WORLD's best, which are the ones playing in the NBA. The teams that beat the USA had a few NBA players among them as well.
I personally think the USA team was saddled the most by their arrogance and short-sightedness in not realizing just how quickly the rest of the world has caught-up to US play, characterized by the proliferation of foreign players in the NBA.
KrNxRaCer00
10-03-2003, 11:54 PM
so uhmm...the cubs won today, so did the marlins (go fish!).
honestly guys, everyone here has their own opinion about the matter an no matter wut, the other isn't going to change sides.
both sides have very valid points, but the overall matter is...WHO IS GOING TO WIN THE WORLD SERIES THIS YEAR?!?! :biggrin:
btw, i didn't name it that, dunno why they called it that, but deal with it or start another thread about "american sports being arrogant."
honestly guys, everyone here has their own opinion about the matter an no matter wut, the other isn't going to change sides.
both sides have very valid points, but the overall matter is...WHO IS GOING TO WIN THE WORLD SERIES THIS YEAR?!?! :biggrin:
btw, i didn't name it that, dunno why they called it that, but deal with it or start another thread about "american sports being arrogant."
2of9
10-04-2003, 12:40 AM
Minnesota Twins ALL THE WAY!! i'd like to see the Twins win.
jon@af
10-04-2003, 12:44 AM
Go Cubs!!!!! Teh Cubs OwN j00!
Jimster
10-04-2003, 04:12 AM
My pick is one of: Anaheim Mighty Ducks, New York Jets or LA Lakers :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Can't choose- but I think the 'Ducks might be in with a chance :uhoh:
YogsVR4
10-04-2003, 10:36 AM
btw, i didn't name it that, dunno why they called it that, but deal with it or start another thread about "american sports being arrogant."
:worshippy
(you others might consider that when the sport named its title, it was only played here)
:worshippy
(you others might consider that when the sport named its title, it was only played here)
KrNxRaCer00
10-04-2003, 09:18 PM
My pick is one of: Anaheim Mighty Ducks, New York Jets or LA Lakers :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Can't choose- but I think the 'Ducks might be in with a chance :uhoh:
ah yes...the good ol' ducks... :lol:
btw, updates:
the fish moved on by beating the giants 7-6 (sorry san fran fans),
the yanks now lead 2-1 after a 3-1 win over the twins (tough luck silver...hehe...j/k)
an the braves tied up the series 2-2 w/ a 12-10 win over the cubs (bout damned time that series had some offense)
boston is up 1-0 in the bottom of the 6th...go bo-sox...
ah yes...the good ol' ducks... :lol:
btw, updates:
the fish moved on by beating the giants 7-6 (sorry san fran fans),
the yanks now lead 2-1 after a 3-1 win over the twins (tough luck silver...hehe...j/k)
an the braves tied up the series 2-2 w/ a 12-10 win over the cubs (bout damned time that series had some offense)
boston is up 1-0 in the bottom of the 6th...go bo-sox...
TexasF355F1
10-04-2003, 11:35 PM
Oh man, what a great couple of games I watched today. The Marlins won Pudge being a complete bad ass today. And the Sox win due to the stupidity of the A's. They were getting in too much of a hurry. What great endings to those two games. I'm excited as hell right now.
KrNxRaCer00
10-05-2003, 08:45 PM
UPDATE:
bo sox win two in a row including a 5-4 win today, tying the series at 2-2.
the yanks knocked out the twins with an 8-1 win.
the cubs have a 2-0 lead in the bottom of the 2nd inning, the winner of this game will play the marlins...(an hopefully lose to the marlins).
bo sox win two in a row including a 5-4 win today, tying the series at 2-2.
the yanks knocked out the twins with an 8-1 win.
the cubs have a 2-0 lead in the bottom of the 2nd inning, the winner of this game will play the marlins...(an hopefully lose to the marlins).
ROB3000GTVR4
10-05-2003, 08:48 PM
UPDATE:
bo sox win two in a row including a 5-4 win today, tying the series at 2-2.
the yanks knocked out the twins with an 8-1 win.
the cubs have a 2-0 lead in the bottom of the 2nd inning, the winner of this game will play the marlins...(an hopefully lose to the marlins).
the yansk KICK ASS :ylsuper:
bo sox win two in a row including a 5-4 win today, tying the series at 2-2.
the yanks knocked out the twins with an 8-1 win.
the cubs have a 2-0 lead in the bottom of the 2nd inning, the winner of this game will play the marlins...(an hopefully lose to the marlins).
the yansk KICK ASS :ylsuper:
jon@af
10-05-2003, 10:26 PM
The Cubbies are up 4-1 at the top of the 8th :cool:
Suislide
10-05-2003, 11:07 PM
YEAH CHI-CUBS!!
first post-season advancement since 1908.
bye bye Braves! *does tomahawk chop*
it's good to see some under-dogs finally move on.
now if only the Jays didn't suck rat-balls... :lol:
first post-season advancement since 1908.
bye bye Braves! *does tomahawk chop*
it's good to see some under-dogs finally move on.
now if only the Jays didn't suck rat-balls... :lol:
Toksin
10-06-2003, 01:19 AM
now if only Jay didn't suck rat-balls... :lol:
:eek: I'm telling!
:eek: I'm telling!
KrNxRaCer00
10-06-2003, 03:42 AM
YEAH CHI-CUBS!!
first post-season advancement since 1908.
bye bye Braves! *does tomahawk chop*
it's good to see some under-dogs finally move on.
now if only the Jays didn't suck rat-balls... :lol:
halladay was good...other than that...yea...the jays suck.
marlins/yanks aye?
first post-season advancement since 1908.
bye bye Braves! *does tomahawk chop*
it's good to see some under-dogs finally move on.
now if only the Jays didn't suck rat-balls... :lol:
halladay was good...other than that...yea...the jays suck.
marlins/yanks aye?
HogieGT-R
10-06-2003, 11:37 AM
Seeing as to how i live around Boston I see it only fitting that I pick the Boston Red Sox to win and to say that YANKEES SUCK :p
Suislide
10-06-2003, 04:26 PM
i'd be VERY happy to see the Yankees NOT make it to the series for once.
i'm rooting for a Cubs/Sox series. that would rock.
i'm rooting for a Cubs/Sox series. that would rock.
ROB3000GTVR4
10-06-2003, 07:16 PM
this is what i have to say to everyone who hate the yanks :thefinger :p
jon@af
10-06-2003, 07:27 PM
i'd be VERY happy to see the Yankees NOT make it to the series for once.
i'm rooting for a Cubs/Sox series. that would rock.
Brian, Im hoping for the same thing. Cubs/Sox series= Teh roXXX0r :cool:
i'm rooting for a Cubs/Sox series. that would rock.
Brian, Im hoping for the same thing. Cubs/Sox series= Teh roXXX0r :cool:
TexasF355F1
10-06-2003, 10:32 PM
Well game 5 is still in the eighth but a pretty scary moment for Boston. Damon and Jackson colliding with Damon getting the worse of the hit knocking him out. And then one fan began heckling what happened causing Ortiz to start walking towards the stands confront the guy. Then his buddy i guess decided he'd be a stupid ass and start talking smack too.
These two "fans" are not what baseball needs. I hate people like that who have no sympathy except for themselves. I wish Ortiz would have kicked their asses. Not to mention there is something wrong with the guy that started it since he was resisting arrest. I just hate it when these worthless people crawl out of the wood work.
These two "fans" are not what baseball needs. I hate people like that who have no sympathy except for themselves. I wish Ortiz would have kicked their asses. Not to mention there is something wrong with the guy that started it since he was resisting arrest. I just hate it when these worthless people crawl out of the wood work.
jon@af
10-06-2003, 10:46 PM
Well game 5 is still in the eighth but a pretty scary moment for Boston. Damon and Jackson colliding with Damon getting the worse of the hit knocking him out. And then one fan began heckling what happened causing Ortiz to start walking towards the stands confront the guy. Then his buddy i guess decided he'd be a stupid ass and start talking smack too.
These two "fans" are not what baseball needs. I hate people like that who have no sympathy except for themselves. I wish Ortiz would have kicked their asses. Not to mention there is something wrong with the guy that started it since he was resisting arrest. I just hate it when these worthless people crawl out of the wood work.
It's everywhere sadly. BTW happy birthday man :cool:
These two "fans" are not what baseball needs. I hate people like that who have no sympathy except for themselves. I wish Ortiz would have kicked their asses. Not to mention there is something wrong with the guy that started it since he was resisting arrest. I just hate it when these worthless people crawl out of the wood work.
It's everywhere sadly. BTW happy birthday man :cool:
TexasF355F1
10-06-2003, 11:26 PM
It's everywhere sadly. BTW happy birthday man :cool:
Thanks Jon I appreciate that!
But anyways GOOOOOOOO SOOXXXXXXXXXXXX!!
Thanks Jon I appreciate that!
But anyways GOOOOOOOO SOOXXXXXXXXXXXX!!
carrrnuttt
10-06-2003, 11:32 PM
Thanks Jon I appreciate that!
But anyways GOOOOOOOO SOOXXXXXXXXXXXX!!
Hey, Happy B-Day!
Anywho...I'm not a big baseball fan, but that was SOME show the A's and the BoSox put up!
But anyways GOOOOOOOO SOOXXXXXXXXXXXX!!
Hey, Happy B-Day!
Anywho...I'm not a big baseball fan, but that was SOME show the A's and the BoSox put up!
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