God's Will

Okay, so the evolution topics kind of led me to this. I'm often troubled by things I hear in church, the main thing being God's desire for us to pray about everything. Pastors (I've heard it from at least two) say that God wants us to pray about not hitting red lights, and praying that milk will be on sale, or praying for a parking spot. Why? This completely confuses me. Why would God want to trivialize himself like that?

Secondly, I've heard a lot of people say that all you have to do is accept God, or accept Jesus or whatever (depending on denomination) before you die. Of course, there's more to it, but that's the basic jist of what's necessary to be saved. Why? It seems to me that God would care for those who have lived a life of morallity than simply those that believe in him. I mean, it seems kind of arrogant of him.

Thirdly, the statement "The lord works in mysterious ways" just pisses me off. Even forgetting the fact that we were created (or evolved into:D) his form, this still seems like BS. I just dislike this statement. It's so close to the whole "God has a plan for everyone", or "God had something better in mind for you"....Well, then, why pray?

Okay, I don't think I phrased any of this very well, but I just wanted to get some different discussion going...other than just evolution and the validity of the bible.

Cheers,
Enzo

Hitting red lights? Don't you mean running?

"Pastors (I've heard it from at least two) say that God wants us..." What, THEY say the he wants us to do something. Who tells them, god directly? Why is it only them that he tells, why not the regular Joe?

Nothing makes sense.

I belive in something(I call it God) but more that God is a valuable source for hope. I don't know how many of you saw Stigmata in the end of the film there's a good sentence. God is within us and all around us not the church. And that I am beliveing. I still go to the church (we call it synagogue anyway) but more because it's like a convention of people with similar belives than a place were God is. God is everywhere where you want him to be. About his will. Well as we can't see the future it's difficult to tell which action was faith or not and if it really changed our future but there are many of strange that happend to people which I can't belive that the simply happend without some strange guidance.

Simple example you missed the train 'cause of some BS while waiting you encounter a person you knew long time ago. There are several such things happening every day...

think about it:bandit:

maybe if things like that are really important, like not hitting a red light on the way to a hospital, but I don't really believe in praying for a good spot in the parking lot... etc....

Adam, That's because you don't have a car!

Guys,
I am sorry to spoil this for you, but I do not believe in God, and I have no concern for him/it/her.
I simply do not understand why a person has to rely on *GOD* to have a happy life. I hate to use this, but
"Be all you can be" is true. ;)
You can become the person you want to become, all it requires is effort. In my opinion, people that strongly believe in God do not believe in themselves enough, and are searching for something in their lifes. But I do not understand why they should believe in God, why not just believe in yourself, and do the best you can. It's like the person is avoding himself, and trying to look for an easy way out: "If I believe in God then I will have a happy life, all it takes is believing God, so I can do it"

This is just my opinion, :)
Please do not take this as offensive material, i am just saying what I think, and thats it. No flames please :p

igor, OH, I see how it is, you get to be the evil all-powerful web master who can say whatever he wants free of consequences, right?!?! HA!! I say BURN IN HELL, sinner!! :D I hope that it is blatantly obvious that the preceding message is plastered with sarcasm, and is 100% in jest.

enzo, I understand what you are saying, and I agree your stance as stated above. I too think it is ridiculous to pray for every little aspect of your life to be planned out to your benefit. That's not the way I thought it was supposed to be (within the partial knowledge acquired from my small extent of a religious up-bringing I did have with my grand parents). Praying is supposed to be reserved for the important things in life, like keeping food on the table and staying healthy, and other keys to survival. I understand why the belief that Jesus must be accepted as your Savior before your death has become popular, but, like you enzo, I think that moral living is a larger piece of the puzzle that seems to be upstaged by this belief nowadays.

I do, however, have a stong belief in the statement "The Lord works in mysterious ways." Maybe this is more of a personal belief. Perhaps it does seem to imply that praying is not necessary. That's where faith comes into play in my book. Why not believe that it can't hurt to pray? I think, if nothing else, praying makes you feel that things will get better. For those that believe, it is a source of hope, and therefore comfort. A great example here (sorry to site yet another film...) is this scene in Inner Space when Martin Short is speaking to Dennis Quaid who is in this pod inside him, and says "give me the strength of ten men," and then Martin proceeds to kick the crap out of a bad guy who confronts him. Well, what Martin doesn't know is that at this point, Dennis and his pod are now inside of Meg Ryan, but he didn't know this - the belief that he was given the strength of ten men was all he needed to prevail in the face of opposition. Call it a lame example if you wish, but I believe that this carries weight in the real world, and is actually feasible in a real world situation.

Thanks for reading-

-JD

I also have to add that I don't believe in "god", but you all already knew that? :)

I believe, however, if there even is a "god", and he wanted us to do things, he should tell us directly, not some priest.

I never thought that Inner Space was so deep. :D

igor.. you think people who don't believe in God believe more in themselves? I think that many who don't believe in God believe too much in themselves... they believe they can get away with anything, with nothing to stop them ever and nothing EVER to punish them.... not true.. it's not that ppl who believe in God don't sin, it's just that ppl who believe in God -- well... their sins are pardoned....

Adam:

Who/what is God?

Gos is the human races scape goat or explaination for the unknown.

Think about this guys,
thousands of years ago people could not explain things like thunder, tornado, bad harvest, etc..
So when a there was thunder, they said "It's God being angry." and so on because they had no explanation for it, they just made one up to ease their minds.
Today, we can explain *almost* everything in the world with science. But still some so-called *miracles* exist. That does not mean its God, or a Saint, it means we still have to learn about our mother earth and our human race. It's all science. Everything we can't explain today is either God or Aliens. There is a scientific answer for everything, we just have to find it, just like we found that lightning is caused by electricity in air.

Originally posted by Adam
igor.. you think people who don't believe in God believe more in themselves? I think that many who don't believe in God believe too much in themselves... they believe they can get away with anything, with nothing to stop them ever and nothing EVER to punish them.... not true.. it's not that ppl who believe in God don't sin, it's just that ppl who believe in God -- well... their sins are pardoned....

What, so the psycho killer who happens to be a christian is pardoned? Hmmm lets hope that the big guy in the shower room isn't so forgiving, since he is reality.

You aren't fighting a good case for religion.

Exactly like I said, God is the scape goat for us. If we do something stupid, we can ask for forgiveness (never get a response for some reason...), and everything will be all fine and dandy.

OK, I'm a little late getting into this one, so I'll comment on several different posts here.

Most people already know I'm a Bible beleiving Christian...but if you didn't you know now. Just stating my viewpoint :D.

I believe that praying about red lights and parking spaces is absolutely ridiculous. Praying should be used seriously, such as praying for someone to be healed. Also, if you pray, that doesn't automatically mean God will say yes. Examples:

You pray that you hit the green. God says no and makes that little old slow moving lady in front of you hold you up and you hit the red. He did that because some drunk flew through his red and would've hit you if you hadn't been slowed down.

You pray that one will be cured of cancer. God says no and they die. Because of their death, friends and relatives start to question where they'll go when the die and all get saved.

Igor, no, people a thousand years ago didn't know why tornados happened. Now we know, and it is wind patterns or whatever and not just a random act of God. That doesn't mean that the use of God as an explanation is discarded. I won't get into this, since this discussion belongs elsewhere, but I believe God created the wind patterns and knew 6000 years ago that a tornado would hit Bob's house in KC.

I see church as a way for people with the same beliefs to meet and fellowship with each other. It's also a sort of "school", always educating people about the Bible and God. To say that church is required for belief in God is completely faulty. The church is the people, not a ritualistic place that's a requirement for belief in God. I also do not believe that it should be dictative. The church should be a democracy, and a gathering place of people with similar beliefs. That is where different denomonations (baptist, catholic, pentecostal, etc.) come into play. If you have baptist beliefs, you join and help form a baptist church, same with the others. I don't think the church should be like the 17th century churches that were basically dictating political places that forced people to conform to the beliefs of the one priest or other leader. I'm rambling now, so I'm gonna switch topics...

Absolutely no human knows God's will. I don't. My pastor doesn't. The pope doesn't. That's why I think it's absurd when people say that different things just aren't in God's will. Of course, you can say this after something happened. Ex: Bob dies. You say, "I guess it wasn't in God's will that he live." That's fine. OR: Bob has cancer. You say, "It's God's will that he will live." This isn't fine...if Bob dies, you just made a fool of yourself and God.

Also, people that say that we shouldn't genetically alter babies for various reasons because "it's messing with God's will" are also absurd (no offense to those that believe this). I think it's wrong if you obsess about it and try to create a perfect being, but removing the gene that gives someone cancer is fine. Extremists say "You're messing with God's will, because that person could get cancer." But this is unsupported. What if it was God's will that I came along and removed the gene, not that the guy would get cancer?

If you believe in God, it makes sense that you should believe that everything that happens is God's will. Saying
"God had a different plan for you" makes no sense. If God is all powerful, and he had a different plan, he would have carried out that plan. It's God's will that the last word in this sentence is "that."

Know what I mean???

sure i do! :D

But why do you think God exists?
What's his role?
If everything is God's will then why do you spend so much time praying? and thinking about God? It's God's will anyway.

To be honest, I don't really know why I believe in God. Probly same reason why you believe in evolution. The idea of God just makes sense to me, and maybe He is even just a scapegoat for me to explain things I don't understand. But I know I've felt His workings in my life, and seen them in others as well.

As far as praying goes, I think it's mostly just a way of building our faith and confidence in God, and can help relieve stress over a sticky situation.

If no humans know "gods" will, then how does any human know "god" exists?

Has any type of praying ever accomplished anything?

Well I think the point is we can't proof that God exist but neither that he doesn't. There are some much things we can't explain but we anyway believe that they exist. And God is not only an explanation for things we can't explain there are so many people with a weak personality and they sometimes find hope and power in the belife in God. Finaly if he exist or not the belif he could exist helpd a lot of people.
Still I have to say I belive in beliving in God but not in Church, cause the church is something built by humans who payed a lot of attention while they had economy class;)
:bandit:

I AM NOT SAYING THAT A BELIEVER CAN JUST KILL ANYONE HE WANTS!

1. if a believer killed someone, he probably isn't a believer in the first place
2. if a killer kills someone, he IS ABLE TO believe in Christ and his sins will be pardoned, but that does NOT mean that on earth he should not be punished. I think he should be punished


--lightning on earth does not mean that God is angry!
--bad things that happen to ppl does not mean that God is angry!

I believe that whether you are a believer or not, your sins are inexcusable, but thankfully we have a forgiving God

How do we know "god" is forgiving? When I tell a lie, I do not ask for forgiveness. Nothings happens to me either.:rolleyes:

if i tell a lie, I do not ask for forgiveness either. :angel:

maybe i should, but God does not 'strike' anyone dead in his anger or anything.... maybe He did sometimes in Bible times, but if you kill someone, that does not mean that God is going to 'strike' you dead.

Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice. He was our forgiveness, redemption, etc.

Somebody said that people pray to/believe in God because they can feel theat they are not responsible for the things that happen to them in their lives . . .

I agree . . . let me expand the idea . . .

I always use a fairlly simple analogy to explain my stand on this topic . . . by using this analogy I have helped many people to understand my views . . . by using this same analogy I have lost many friends . . . anyway . . .

People praying DO NOT have any evidence that their prayers are answered. I have come to the realization that a person who believes enough in a supreme being to send a heartfelt prayer to said being . . . is so unstable that regardless of the outcome, they will assume/believe it is God's will.

If the same person were told that telephone poles were "gods" . . . they would pray to telephone poles. In the event that one of those prayers coincided with a later incident in that person favor . . . does that mean that the telephone pole "answered" the prayer. Don't be ridiculous . . .

The belief in a god, any god, plays into the mentality of certain types of people. The same type of people who won't go bowling without their lucky boxer shorts on or at least in their pockets (hahahaaaa) . . .

The natural thing to do once praying, is to act in accordance to what the prayer was meant to accomplish. ie: If I want to find Energy Suspension motor mounts for my '93 G20 . . . the natural thing to do is to look for the mounts. A person who believes in God . . . will first pray, then look for the mounts. Upon finding the mounts, or having them fabricated, the sad fact is that these weak individuals, thank a being whose existence is uncertain, before giving themselves a pat on the back . . .

How absurd can it get . . .

I am king of my destiny . . . or the destroyer of the same . . .

Stevie B
'93 G20 :sun:

Praying only works if you believe in God as an omnipotent being. I agree that one should perform actions that coincide with the request. If I pray that Bob will get healed from cancer, and don't do anything about it, I'm a fool. But if I pray that God will heal Bob, if it's in His will, then I should go about treating Bob. But if the treatment is 50% effective, it could go either way. That is where belief in God comes in. If Bob is healed, it is because of the reactions to the treatment. But it's also answer to prayer. But it's also an answer to prayer if Bob dies, just not the answer I wanted.

See the only problem with your analogy is that we don't believe in God because of prayer, we believe in prayer because of God. An answered prayer by no means proves God's existence, and it cannot and should not be used by Christians as an explanation or proof of God's existence. Prayer is more symbolic than anything...God wants us to pray, but more as a way for us to help place our faith in God.

This is probly confusing. But basically, believing in the telephone pole because by coincidence it fell over on May 3rd, 10:04 AM, just like we prayed it would is ridiculous. While quite a coincidence, that is all it is, it doesn't prove that it heard our prayer. You have to believe that the telephone pole can hear and answer your prayer before you pray, or else it is pointless.

Alrighty then . . .

You have to believe that the telephone pole can hear and answer your prayer before you pray, or else it is pointless.

That's all it takes? So the stimulus for the outcome desired, even the very REALITY we are discussing (that is what I'm heading for here), according to YOU is dependent upon the state of mind of the person involved . . . and that makes all the difference . . .

I agree 100%, and that is precisely my point!

What you have said here is that by believing that a prayer will work, I have affected the the potency of said prayer . . .

If I believe that my G20 can schitt polyurethane motor mounts out of the tailpipe . . . and then I pray to my G20 tonight when I go home . . . lol . . .

whatever man . . .

No, no, no, no, no.....:D

Of course the outcome of the prayer will not be affected by the persons state of mind...that can't physically happen. What I'm saying is that prayer cannot (or should not) make someone believe in what or who they are praying to...they should pray to what or who they believe in. You can pray to a floor tile that Bob will get healed from his cancer. If he is, you wouldn't believe that the floor tile has supernatural powers. If I don't pray, and I treat Bob for cancer, he gets healed. If I do pray, and I treat Bob for cancer, he gets healed. If I do or don't pray, but leave Bob untreated, he will die. Prayer has no supernatural power, God does. Prayer is just a way of helping us to realize that God is powerful, if you believe in Him.

BTW: If you honestly believed that your tailpipe could shoot out mounts, then go for it. But you don't believe that, so don't pray.

Prayer has no supernatural power, God does. Prayer is just a way of helping us to realize that God is powerful, if you believe in Him.

. . . Prayer is just a way of helping us to realize that God is powerful . . .

. . . So why pray for desired outcomes to certain situations?

. . . Since God is powerful, why must one PRAY in order to realize it . . .

. . . Since God is powerful, and prayer is just a means for us to realize said power . . . why can you not depend on God to demonstrate his power through the outcomes of your prayers . . . ?


hunh?

Originally posted by i_rebel


. . . Prayer is just a way of helping us to realize that God is powerful . . .

. . . So why pray for desired outcomes to certain situations?

. . . Since God is powerful, why must one PRAY in order to realize it . . .

. . . Since God is powerful, and prayer is just a means for us to realize said power . . . why can you not depend on God to demonstrate his power through the outcomes of your prayers . . . ?


hunh?

Techinically, we don't HAVE to pray. It's also an example to others, so that they may inquire as to why we believe in God, and that is a perfect opportunity to share our thoughts. God also said in the Bible "You recieve not because you did not ask." God likes us to pray as a sort of dependance. If I pray that Bob will get better, He may make Bob get better. While this can possibly be explained scientifically, it's also a demonstration of His power.

I dunno, it's really really hard to explain to someone that doesn't believe, because they don't believe God exists. Therefore, they see prayer as useless, and they won't change their minds until they change their mind about God.

Please try to keep calm and respect others views...these are discussion forums, not arguing forums...we've had people complain about heated arguments before. We also decided a while ago that nobody is ever going to change anybody else's mind, so there's no point trying. I'm just explaining why I believe what I believe. Anyway, I'm saying all this because I thought you were starting to get heated...if I was wrong, I apologize.

In other words, prayer has two purposes . . . at least in your opinion . . .

1) To serve as an outward demonstration to others.

2) To prove to God that you are dependant on him.


Picture that seriously. Picture your children . . . one of them very hungry, because for some reason he can't bring himself to make a sandwich for some reason. Would you expect that child to continually beg you to help him eat (you are his primary care giver), just to show his brothers and sisters that he depends on you? Or, even if the circumstance were not so dire, would you being a kind, loving parent, expect your children to continually call out to you, to continually recognize that you are their parent/authority figure/care-giver?

If this "god" exists, and is a kind, loving, caring, even WISE god . . . then why would this expectation be placed upon us . . . mere men? Why would we be expected to continually demonstrate our dependence . . . and to what end?

I see people who demonstrate their dependence on a daily basis . . . all day, in fact! Yet they are all in the same circumstances as their counterparts. You have your belief in God, and your dependence upon him . . . tell me how does it benefit you?

Further, tell me why your God expects such trivialities? If it does not benefit you, how does it benefit him?

And in reference to your comment:
I thought you were starting to get heated...

how can I be getting heated? don't you see which way this thing is pointed? :flamer: . . . lol . . .


Stevie B
'93 G20

If Bob dies from cancer, it's not because "god" wanted him to die, it's because the cancer spread in his body and killed him. That is simply it.

If he lives, it's not because you prayed, but simply because the treatment worked.

It's not necessarily to prove our dependence, more to remind ourselves that we don't always have to do everything ourselves. Think about it, do you like the person who thinks they are the best and that they don't need anyones help, or the humble person that can do things themselves, but gladly accepts help?

What I benefit from believing in God: I live a life with a purpose, I am worry free, and I'm going to heaven when I die. You probly don't believe in heaven, But I do, and I really want to go there. As to why God expects such trivial things, I honestly do not know. I'll ask Him when I get to heaven. :)

MBTN...you stay outta this :D:D:D

Yes, Bob died from the cancer spreading. But I believe that God originally created Bob (not directly, through ages and ages of people having kids) to have cancer, and knew at the beginning if he would die from it or not. He may also make His choice of whether he dies or not based on whether I pray for him or not.

Lol rebel (the last comment), I never thought about it that way.....

See, that's something to be applauded.

You can firmly state that your belief/confidence in God benefits you by providing you with a purpose in life . . . and you are free from worry.

I don't profess a belief in God, yet I have purpose, I have worries (as do you, but for now, you say not), but the end to my worries is to take action. Whatever action is necessary to alleviate said worry.

I'm quite sure that when you worry, you pray.

When I worry, I hustle . . .

I believe (and you have solidified this for me through this exchange) that religion is for the weak minded. I have yet to discuss religion or the terms thereof with someone who can show me solid reasoning for their beliefs. Further, all of the supposed benefits of a life lived "in the way of the lord", are equally available to the self-assured (confidence, purpose, etc.) or otherwise circumspect at best . . .

I think I'll start my own religion, it's commercialized enough that I too could capitalize on the weak minded . . .

Please don't be offended, but flame at will . . .


Stevie B
'93 G20 :sun:

quote:

Praying only works if you believe in God as an omnipotent being.

end quote

where does it say that? I never heard that.. where is that in the Bible?

AND by the way... it's called faith... faith is why we believe in God, and that he answers our prayers...

I know you are going to laugh at that, but evolution needs TONS of faith, because everything proves its falseness

Secondly, I've heard a lot of people say that all you have to do is accept God, or accept Jesus or whatever (depending on denomination) before you die. Of course, there's more to it, but that's the basic jist of what's necessary to be saved. Why? It seems to me that God would care for those who have lived a life of morallity than simply those that believe in him. I mean, it seems kind of arrogant of him.

Well, I have your answer, and it comes straight from the Bible. Matthew 20 is a parable of a man who owns a vineyard. Throughout the day he goes out and hires men to work in the vineyard, promising the first me a few dollars, and everyone else "what is fair". At the end of the day, he pays the men who have worked only an hour the same few dollars that the men who worked all day got. The men who worked the whole day grumbled at this, but the vineyard owner told them that they got what they were promised, and that it was his right to pay the other men what he so desired. This is just like your problem above. People who accept Jesus as their savior minutes before death have done much less work for him than those who were saved years ago, but God desires them to all have the same reward. I think he does this because he wants to have everyone feel as equals in heaven, after all, satan was an ordinary angel until he began thinking he was better than everyone else, and as a result, he tried to take over heaven, and was condemned to burn for all eternity in hell. Now which would you rather have? Equality or punishment? I guess that is what it all comes down to.

Matthew 20:16 "So the last will be first, and the first will be last."

Everyone proves evolutions falseness? I think you have that backwards.:rolleyes:

Now, now, lets keep the evolution argument out of here...we've already determined that it makes sense to an unbeliever and no sense to a believer (Christian), and vice versa. Adam is right that evolution requires just as much faith as belief in God, though.

For those that may not know, faith is basically belief in what you cannot prove. You sit in your chair, having faith that it will hold you up. However, you cannot prove that it will. We have faith that God exists. You have faith that evolution happened (however much evidence there may or may not be, it, like creation, cannot be proven, nothing can unless you were there).

Adam: No, it doesn't say that in the Boble, but if you don't believe that God can do anything, there is no point in praying. Perhaps I should rephrase that...Praying only makes sense if you believe that God is omnipotent.

i_rebel: I'm not offended :D because I see it differently. I should get my pastor on here to talk to you about religion. You might be impressed. :D

OK, I'll just admit that you're wrong, and I'm correct. I have no problem with that. I'm finished with this argument.:o

Lol MBTN...

ok, it is getting old
ok, we are getting nowhere

but why stop... we're just getting into the juicy parts.. lol


:D

That chair thing . . .

The proof is there . . . I can test the chair before I sit on it . . . I can see someone else sit on it . . . I can slowly slide my ass onto it (LOL) . . . these things will produce evidence which I can put my trust in.

For the most part though, each time I sit I sit in faith because I have learned that a chair will support me . . .

There is no such learning experience or evidence to allow the same to be true for belief in God, or "a" god for that matter. . .

Blind faith basically amounts to wishful thinking . . . at least from where I'm sitting . . .

Heep: How'd you become a moderator anyway?

But once you test the chair, you sit on it and relax, and after that, reassured by your test, you have faith that it will continue to support you. So it's right back where we started, you still have faith in the chair to hold you up.:D

The chair is solid and visible. Thats the difference. You actually have undisputable proof that the chair is holding you up. With religion you only find out if it works after you die.

True, true, but that's just an illustration so you get the jist of it. It can also be applied to many other things...love for instance. You cannot physically see love, but of course you believe in it. You have faith that love exists.

You may not have felt it, probly 90% or more of everybody in the world has not (yet) felt it, but conviction is just one of my evidences for God's existence. There are others, as well, most outlined in previous threads.

BTW...I became a mod through consistent and prolongned "attendance", lots of posting, keeping the peace, and working on a partnership deal....

Oh come on, love is an emotion.

Yup. But you still can't physically see, hear, feel, etc. it, so you have faith it exists. It really makes no difference what you use as an example, I'm just trying to demonstrate faith.

You can feel love. But OK, I know you mean touch. But you can't touch, hear, taste, smell or see sadness either. Or happiness, anger, etc. But you know you feel them because they have a real effect on you.

There is nothing to do with faith there.

Exactly my point! Thanks...

You don't feel it because you don't believe, but I feel God, and he has a real effect on my life.

Whether they have anything to do with faith or not, at least you get the idea of what I'm talking about.

if god made me in his image arn't I god?

Man created god in his image.

Why serve in heaven whan you can rule in hell?

Some of you may know I don't believe in God, if not..now you do.
Wait, that's not quite right... God is Science...Science is God.
God is everywhere, and in everything. Duh...it is Science that is god. How can someone not believe in Science?

And religion is the root of all man's evil...the cause of all wars. Only purpose is to segregate populations, and keep the power among a small group of the population.

Besides, from what I've learned about god and the Xian religion, god won't care what I believed in, or even if I was blasphemous. He will care if I was a good person or not. He won't care if I accept Jesus (that sounds just a bit gay to me) on my death bed or not.
I live my life doing what I feel is the right thing. I don't need some book written thousands of years ago to tell me what's right. Especially some book that throughout history was controlled by the rich elite, which would benefit from control of the other 95% of the population.

I dont believe in science. I believe in scientific principles, but not the junk science being spewed out all over the place. Global warming - some say yes and others say no. Is the universe expanding indefinately - some say yes others say no. How did life begin? How does evelolution really work? (nobody has ever actually seen a new species develop from another) There are many other examples. The use of science is the current method of scaring people into doing what a few selective wackos want (see global warming).

Todays science is done by first knowing the result you want and then coming up with the specific data you need to support it. I claim we will get over 1800 inches of rain this year. We got 5 inches today so 5X365 is > 1800. Junk junk junk.

(nobody has ever actually seen a new species develop from another)

We ain't been looking nearly long enough.

Originally posted by Lizard King


We ain't been looking nearly long enough.

You're right about that. Which is my point. Its accepted as a fact although its never been proven. Which is the major part of Junk Science.

Oh...Now I think I understand.

Junk Science is promoted/taught as being true Science when in reality it is based on some science (if any), and some political or economic agenda, but this is all packaged as "True Science".

The science books are written by man, and the readers believe it as a fact, when they should think more for themselves...?

Sound like any other book we know?

That last amusing post made me think. I reckon that the bible was like a primative science book. But while todays science is based on what we can observe, the bible was based on mans simple explainations. Plus some population control teachings thrown in for good measure.