3rd Gen Camaro and I..

So a friend who has a 3rd gen fuel injected 305 Camaro(forgot what year) has been wanting to run for a while now... He's known to be super hard on his car and to be semi-quick. He has a 5spd car with t tops and just k&n filters.

We decide to just do things from a roll because we didnt' feel like driving 20 minutes for to make 2 quick runs...

First: we're lined up at about 25 mph.. even though we were supposed to go from 30.. so I'm right around 2k rpm unfortunately.. I honk 3 times, then I go. He gets a jump on me, but by the top of 2nd, his front bumper is at my door, and it pretty much stays this way untill just a little into 4th gear at around 95.. At this point, I'm very surprised and kinda dissapointed in my own performance.

We pull over, and I ask to run again, he agree's so we go from 25mph again. This time was a little different though.. By the top of second he was already at my back bumper, and by the top of third, he was about 1.5 or 2 cars behind me.

We talked after the racing, and he admitted to jumping the gun on our first run, and said he hit it right before i honked the 3rd time.. This made me feel a little better, but I thought I'd pull on him even harder... Oh well..


Guess its time for more power mods!

Is his car a TPI or TBI. What kind of mods do you have and what car is it besides some 80's 5.0. :confused:

I think TBI.. I'm really not sure... I know the 350's were TPI though.. those 305's are so insignificant...


My mods are: 3.73 rear gears, flowmaster mufflers, k&n filter, shitty mismatched tires, and a short shifter.

And she's a 92.

With those mods and that competition you should beat him everytime.

Now this is a significant 305 mine
87 Firebird with the following
V8 305, 4 Speed Automatic
42,000 miles
Computer Delete
Edelbrock 600 cfm Electric Choke Carb
Edelbrock Performer Intake Manifold
14" Open Air Cleaner, KN air filter
Comp Cams Roller Cam 260
Comp Cams Roller Lifter
GM Aluminum 1.5 Roller Rocker Arms
New Springs and Retainers
Double Roller Timing
New water pump
Edelbrock Headers and Y pipe
High Flow Cat
Hooker Cat Back
Auburn POSI with new ring and pinions
Stock 2.73 gears
BM Megashifter(rachet)
165 thermostat
Fan on at start
New HEI Distributor set at 35
I'm thinking the HP at the rear is at 210 and about 300 Torque
I Believe the car is around 3200 lb
O and I have regular tires on it
running 89 with Octane booster

Now this is a significant 305 mine
87 Firebird with the following
V8 305, 4 Speed Automatic
42,000 miles
Computer Delete
Edelbrock 600 cfm Electric Choke Carb
Edelbrock Performer Intake Manifold
14" Open Air Cleaner, KN air filter
Comp Cams Roller Cam 260
Comp Cams Roller Lifter
GM Aluminum 1.5 Roller Rocker Arms
New Springs and Retainers
Double Roller Timing
New water pump
Edelbrock Headers and Y pipe
High Flow Cat
Hooker Cat Back
Auburn POSI with new ring and pinions
Stock 2.73 gears
BM Megashifter(rachet)
165 thermostat
Fan on at start
New HEI Distributor set at 35
I'm thinking the HP at the rear is at 210 and about 300 Torque
I Believe the car is around 3200 lb
O and I have regular tires on it
running 89 with Octane booster

Bah, I still wouldn't bother spending money on a Chevy 305

Bah, I still wouldn't bother spending money on a Chevy 305

Thats what I got so thats what I moded. Next week its getting Dyno tuned so I'll get the real numbers then. I realize the 305 is a weak engine but it can become powerful with the right moding. A 350 would of resulted in alot better performance but then I would of had to buy one and change all that other stuff.

At least he's trying, he could have spent his money getting 20" rims and a tail pipe extension..."A car is never done," that's what a true tuners motto should be. Besides with enough time and money he could prolly make that 305 soar.

Congrats on your race by the way.

I have to agree completely. People talk bad about the 305 but when that's what the car has then you add stuff to it until it croaks and then you swap all the stuf into a new 350 shortblock. In the meantime it'll have to do.
Although I am a thirdgen guy I have to commend you on a good race. My insignificant 305 TPI dynoed at 195 RWHP and 280 RWTQ, and that's with the factory peanut cam which is a major handicap no matter what I got in the engine.
The thing is that I am not done either. We do this because it's fun, and it doesn't matter what you drive as long as you enjoy it.

-Ozzy

Now this is a significant 305 mine
87 Firebird with the following
V8 305, 4 Speed Automatic
42,000 miles
Computer Delete
Edelbrock 600 cfm Electric Choke Carb
Edelbrock Performer Intake Manifold
14" Open Air Cleaner, KN air filter
Comp Cams Roller Cam 260
Comp Cams Roller Lifter
GM Aluminum 1.5 Roller Rocker Arms
New Springs and Retainers
Double Roller Timing
New water pump
Edelbrock Headers and Y pipe
High Flow Cat
Hooker Cat Back
Auburn POSI with new ring and pinions
Stock 2.73 gears
BM Megashifter(rachet)
165 thermostat
Fan on at start
New HEI Distributor set at 35
I'm thinking the HP at the rear is at 210 and about 300 Torque
I Believe the car is around 3200 lb
O and I have regular tires on it
running 89 with Octane booster



shit a 240sx with 1200 bucks in mods on a stock vehicle will put down more rwhp then that.......
:grinno:

damn people always acting like v8's are the end all engine.... they aren't that fast, maybe the modified Ford Lightning I drove gave me a lil hapiness but thats about the only one that has ever impressed me...

however though I must say those 80's Chevy v8's couldn't be much gayer then a male hair dresser with a pink tutu.... whats the vette got 215hp?
:lol:

however though I must say those 80's Chevy v8's couldn't be much gayer then a male hair dresser with a pink tutu.... whats the vette got 215hp?
:lol:


80's Chevy V8's? You've got to remember that the 80's weren't the best decade for car performance from any manufacturer including imports. They were alot better than the late '70s, not by a whole lot but things were improving.

I might as well point this out, during the 80's which cars were still the fastest? American muscle cars, albeit they weren't anything like they were before or what they are now... they still were faster than hmm a stock 240sx.

In their prime the 80's muscle cars were stock for stock the best thing to buy for performance for under $15,000 brand new.

Heck, the '85 Mustang 5.0 ran a solid 15.5 with only 210hp. Not the best, but not too shabby considering the car, the restrictions on the motor, and the era it came from. And I believe thats, still a little faster than the stock '89 240sx which runs a 16.5.

Not dogging on the 240sx, I appreciate the Nismo products. Just using it as an example.

I might as well point this out, during the 80's which cars were still the fastest? American muscle cars, albeit they weren't anything like they were before or what they are now...

Three words:

Dodge Omni GLH-S (http://www.lucasviking.com/shelby/articles/sc95109.htm)

shit a 240sx with 1200 bucks in mods on a stock vehicle will put down more rwhp then that
I thirdgen 305 with 150 shot of juice, headers, and cat-back= 1200 of mods will beat the shit out of that 240sx. :smokin:

the 300zx turbo wasn't very far behind the vette, I think the vette was a 1/10th faster in the 1/4. Also I dunno about the numbers exactly, but one car that seems halfway decent from the 80's would be a S12 silvia called the 200sx with the vg30e in it.Correct me if im wrong but I think the VG30e made 160-180hp back in those days, nothing jaw dropping but the S12 was a very light car. This is basically a 240sx in the previous form, it uses the S chassis designation but had a diff name, some engine choices were ca18et, and vg30e that I know of. Today its pretty much an old nasty looking shitbox, but back in its days it probably was a much nicer car then a 5.0 in performance aspects.

and damn if a stock 240sx is only a second slower then a 5.0 in the 1/4 thats pitiful hahah...

I love 240's.... but they aren't shit stock as far as speed. Like I was saying for a little over a grand you could come up with a BASIC turbo setup on her that will put you in the 14's, and give you around 225rwhp... this is what a few people are making on their basic setups. Which usually involve a manifold, wastegate, turbo, bov, and piping. Some guys run 5 psi and put out those numbers on stock fuel injectors, no intercooler... If you really wanted to do it cheap with a internal actuator and a junkyard turbo you could get way below a grand.

330bucks for internal wastegate t3 manifold
300bucks for a z31 turbo
40 bucks for a dsm recirc valve
150 bucks piping...
100 bucks flanges, lines for turbo.

this is dirt cheap for the increase you get in power. You could do the usual bolt ons and get maybe 10-15hp with that money spent. You want to up the ante a bit some guys hack their MAF to be 37% more diameter with same guts, and put on stock used SR20det injectors(cheap $$$) and you can run a lil more psi, get a cheap intercooler and bump it up another couple psi.... with that you would easily be putting down 250rwhp. Theres a guy, albeit I consider him an expert at drag racing 240's, that runs in the 12's with his 250rwhp "daily driver" 240sx powered by a ka24det.......... that'll smoke C5's as you know.




my point is that cheapie turbo setup mod list costs probably a 1/4 of what that guy has on his 305, has a lil more HP, and Im sure will take em out on a dragstrip..... Maybe he just loves the car, maybe it was all he could get, who knows..... just I don't think in this case a v8 is a good enging to modify or even looks like an engine I would want. I hate how people say v8's always whip ass, its the best engine to race with, or it rules any import ever..... these are stupid claims.....

I don't hate v8's, I don't like v8's cause they are v8's or are made in america.... I respect anything that is fast be it a 3 cylinder Geo, or a 12 cylinder Ferrari. anything else just gets flamed.... and yes I have flamed many 240sx and other import owners even though I would take a 240sx over a corvette, viper, or m3 anyday. How about we each take $50k, you buy your corvette, put 3k mods on it, have your badass american muscle shit, and come get stomped by the $ 10k import, and Ill still have money to fix it when it breaks muhaha

:screwy:

which motor seems better in that scenario?

SR20 before you not only get flamed off the boards, but yourself into a wee bit of trouble, do remember one thing. The quickest cars in the world full stop are powered by a V8. It doesn't matter on life of the engine or car configuration. All that of what you said boils down to power to weight ratios. That has nothing to do with engine configuration.

What you are claiming may sound impressive but mate it is far from it. There are enough rotary powered cars with simple stuff like your saying running much quicker times, of course they are in cars much lighter than your S12. There is in fact an S12 with an FJ20 conversion in it that runs 10's and is daily driven here. While the performance from the ka may sound impressive for what it is the SR20 is better overall and unlike what you get in the states are factory fitted but were not released in the states due to emission regulations and such.

You are also compariing forced induction to N/A. Make the playing field level and put forced induction on the V8. The tables turn dramaticly.

Either way keep the flaming down as everyone here enjoys performance cars hence the reason they are here. :)

well not really.... if we wanted to get technical....

the fastest cars in the world are not powered by v8's....

no they are not Top Fuel Dragsters

how about that rocket car that almost breaks the sound barrier?

:grinyes:


one of the fastest accelerating street legal cars in the world is a GTR from Veilside though. Close behind it is a Ligenfelter twin turbo'd C5 with a LS1 stroked to 427ci, but it was on racing tires... So if we want to count dragsters and top fuel, lets just throw in the rocket powered cars and beat everyone's dick down.

I don't own a S12....... I've seen KA's tuned by regular people put out more power then most SR's I've seen, the only SR's I seen that put out more then 500+hp are from Signal and a few other tuners in Japan. One of the highest powered SR's I seen in the states does 430rwhp, like I said someone had a 500+hp KA24de that ran 10's as a drag car, but it did use NOS to get 500+hp... normally I believe it was in the High 400hp bracket. Plus a KA24DE usually, not in all circumstances though.... will put down more torque then a SR will, especially ones that are tuned highly.... HP is for bragging rights..... torque gets you down the road.

If I had a 200,000 budget to build a race engine I would probably pick the SR, but for a regular street engine I think the KA24 is a better choice, and plus its far more abundant in the USA to get spare parts for it. We've had these arguments time and time again on the 240 forums, you aren't gonna tell me much that I don't know about the dispute, thanks for trying to enlighten some of us though.

well not really.... if we wanted to get technical....

the fastest cars in the world are not powered by v8's....

no they are not Top Fuel Dragsters

how about that rocket car that almost breaks the sound barrier?

:grinyes:



The term 'fastest car' is relative. Fastest in doing what? 1/4? top speed?

1/4 mile would be a NHRA Top Fuel Dragster... obviously nothing comes close.

Only thing those jet powered cars have in common with cars is that they have four wheels. I personally dont consider them 'cars' due to the fact that the motor (jet) isn't powering any wheels. It's just a jetfighter with no wings... basically a sled.

FYI: They broke the sound barrier like two years ago using a jet powered car.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, those jet powered cars might only have 3 wheels. In tricycle arrangement... Getting less and less car like as we speak. :p

Youve Been Owned!

so JET DAGSTERS aren't really dragsters?

why does the NHRA of all people...... call them that and have a class?

they don't have any power going to the wheels..........

also I think a rocket will accelerate faster then a top fuel car, even the jet dragsters do I believe.... think about it

no drive wheels to loose traction, instant thrust that is WAY more powerful then a reciporating engine.....

The Military abandoned reciporating engines back in WW2, they moved onto jet engines, hmmm maybe theres a reason for that, Rockets, are even more powerful then jet engines but are more dangerous in their fuel and take a lot of it, its not feasible to have a rocket powered plane, although the germans had one, the ME-163 Komet, it would skyrocket up to 40,000feet, depleting all its fuel, make a pass on bombers with a 40mm cannon and have to glide back down to earth with no power and often crash away from their airfield... not the coolest job lol.



joo bin OWN3D now.....

shit I sound like a Honda ricer

:banghead:

and just to be pigheaded and correct....... since u wanted to be a sissy....



"As an added bonus for the spectators, St. Capitol Dragway featured JET
DRAGSTERS as an exhibition class. Marvin Celsur (Rowlett TX) driving the
Lone Star Lightning defeated Angel Hortons Jet Set with a run of 4.98 e.t. @ 315.01 MPH."



"......309.77-mph in the final round of the season-opening NHRA AutoZone Winternationals just outside of Los Angeles."



so in the 1/4 mile..... a jet dragster reaches speeds faster then a Top Fuel Dragster did for the win in the Final round.......

SR20DETpower (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/member.php?u=21786):

With all your witty responses to RedNeck so far, you haven't picked-up on the fact that he never said that the jet-dragsters aren't dragsters. Hell, a lawn-mower drag-machine is still a dragster.

All he said, basically, that in his opinion, he doesn't even consider "jet-cars" cars. He considers it what it is: a rocket-powered roller-skate.

I consider anything with more then 2 wheels and a seat that is powered somehow by an engine of some sort to propel it along a vehicle....

lets not start arguiing like a buncha 16 year old girls now... Im above that level lets just let it die if you will......

Ugh... You say you don't want to argue like a 16 year old girl? Yet you say statements like these...

and just to be pigheaded and correct....... since u wanted to be a sissy....

Calling me a sissy wont get you any where... But Whatever if thats how you deal with people not agreeing with you then so be it.


Anywho...

Jet Dragsters on average do not run faster than their regular V8 counterparts. I say average cause not always can the standard dragsters get traction due to variable track conditions or the weather is crap... hey nothings perfect.

Infact... Tony Schumacher just broke the All time record with a 4.465 ET. And might I also point out that they regularly hit 320-330mph trap speeds?

Not too much quicker, but faster than the roman candle sleds you seem to just wuv 2 deff!



Apple Sauce Bitch

If you bothered to read what i wrote and not what you want to interpret what I wrote i said QUICKEST.

1. The top fuel dragsters and funny cars are quicker than any jet or rocket car in the quarter mile. That is what you quoted.

2. You compared a KA turbed to an n/a motor.

3. How the hell can we go from car engines to jet engines?

4. For your information the 300zx twin turbos are not that impressive. they are heavier than you think they are. I know I raced against enough of them and my old skyline GTS-t 2 liter rwd single turbo beat many on the strip and street.

Half of what you have said thus far isn't correct nor are your assumptions. You may want to do a bit more research before you wind up being known as a complete tosser and no one will take you seriously.

junkyard turbo you could get way below a grand.....................
330bucks for internal wastegate t3 manifold
300bucks for a z31 turbo
40 bucks for a dsm recirc valve
150 bucks piping...
100 bucks flanges, lines for turbo.
.................................................. ....
this is dirt cheap for the increase you get in power............You want to up the ante a bit some guys hack their MAF to be 37% more diameter ............my point is that cheapie turbo setup mod list costs probably a 1/4 of what that guy has on his 305, has a lil more HP, and Im sure will take em out on a dragstrip...

Notice how I listed brand new parts that will last like "A thirdgen 305 with 150 NOS Setup, Edelbrock TES headers, and Hooker cat-back= 1200 of mods will beat the shit out of that 240sx." When all the plastic on your probe look a like falls apart from your junkyard turbo flying off after the hamster has a heart attack and comes shouting out your 6" out muffler the third gens will still be there with me laughing.

Basically, someone will always run faster, for longer, for cheaper than you no matter what. Someone will always beat you.


I find the sudden argument about building a Turbo KA engine over any other engine in the world for $200,000 or less is quite pointless. No one even flamed a KA engine or a 240sx in this thread untill you brought it up. Stop being so dang biased about practically everything 240sx, and stop arguing uneccessarily.

Oh ya, and don't go thinking that I have something against 240's or KA's or whatever because I was gonna buy a s13240.. but a better deal on the stang came up first.


Goodnight.

nobody flaming the 240, it was brought up as an example. People turbocharge their 240's and run them for the longest times with no problems, I think one guy has had his running for 3 years without a problem...... so I guess they are just all cheap plastic pieces of shit probe look a likes huh?

on that note of you buygin good parts for the 305, my brother has Hooker shit on his Impala SS, headers and catback, and its always f'n up, leaks bad...... bad pulsation noises, droning noises, headers leak.... real good expensive parts there buddy.......

a 200,000 dollar figure was thrown in as a comparison, who the hell was talking about building or having a 200k engine? I was just saying on the street Id rather have a KA24, but if I was making a serious tube frame track car, and had some real deep pockets, I would probably use a built up SR over the KA......

you all take shit the wrong way and try to exploit it to make someone look like an ass, in reality all i see is a bunch of bickering girls making everyone seem like an ass so that you look better, its takes 2 people to have an argument.

I said I would stop arguing but nobody else did so here we go.....


2. yep I compared a 4 cylinder to an 8 cylinder, has half the displacement and half the cylinders.... I think a 4 banger with a turbo is a fair comparison to a v8 that is N/A, shit even just about every v8 guy says theres no replacement for displacement, so with taht in mind it is still an unfair comparison for the 4 banger because it could never be as good in that sense.........

3. well it is rather radical, but just to prove a point that shit is faster then v8's lol.......

4. where were we talking about z32's?

Notice how I listed brand new parts that will last like "A thirdgen 305 with 150 NOS Setup, Edelbrock TES headers, and Hooker cat-back= 1200 of mods will beat the shit out of that 240sx." When all the plastic on your probe look a like falls apart from your junkyard turbo flying off after the hamster has a heart attack and comes shouting out your 6" out muffler the third gens will still be there with me laughing.


I love how you assume Im a ricer with APC stickers on my car and a 6" exhaust pipe........
shit I probably know more about working on v8 cars then you do and I don't even like the f'n things
:nono:
where do you work son? Burger King?

I work at a transmission shop lol I doubt you know a hell of a lot more then I do on cars, and I've probably driven 100x the amount of cars you have in your life, I've driven so many v8 vehicles it is funny, and only 1 has really impressed me. Another domestic that impressed me, but not a v8, was a 12 second GN we had in the shop, that was a nice ride.


and most 3rd gens are REAL REAL slow, hell a whole slew of brand new imports stock for stock with 4 bangers will send that camaro crying back to momma...hell even the new Accord coupe will beat the shit out of that, 5.0 or 4.6 sohc Stangs, and thats a honda built as a family cruiser.....downright pitiful if you ask me

I could make a long list, but I don't feel like being an ass and ruining your hopes of how fast a v8 is in your mind.

SR20DETpower:

All you are doing is perpetuating an argument that YOU started. The 240 was not even involved in ANY way in the original story.

This thread ends here, and your pointless arguing will too, if you are to heed this warning.

Hijack another well-meaning thread in this way again, and I won't even bother warning you. We CAN do timed bans here. I'll give you a week-off.