General shifting question...

What is the best way to slow down/stop when driving a manual transmission? I know to downshift when descending a hill, but what about when approaching a stoplight on a level street while in city traffic? Is it best to brake, push in the clutch and take it out of gear while continuing to coast to a stop, or to downshift while slowing.

C

Don't downshift whilst braking if you are going to stop at the lights. Simply brake and as your speed drops below 5mph, press the clutch pedal in, put it into neutral and let go of the clutch pedal.


Some people press the clutch pedal in, select first gear and just hold the clutch pedal in until the lights turn green. This is bad for the transmission! :wink:

Thanks for the reply.

This is probably a stupid question, but so was my last one. Do I just brake down to 5 mph without shifting or taking it out of gear even if I'm in a high gear (5th)? I thought this type of thing would cause engine lugging.

Thanks,
Craig

The best way is by downshift through all gears while using the engine to help you brake. Don't use the clutch as a "brake" since this will cause unnecessary wear on the clutch, the clutch should be engaged/disengaged fast during gearshifts and the engine and transmission should preferbly have the same rpm when the clutch engage them.

There are no reasons why you shouldn't have the first gear in while waiting at the stoplights, the releasebearing will handle this without any problems.

The best way is by downshift through all gears while using the engine to help you brake. Don't use the clutch as a "brake" since this will cause unnecessary wear on the clutch


AAARGH!!!

YOU DO NOT DO THIS :screwy:

How would you use the clutch as a 'brake'?

Actually, it's very smart to downshift through all of the gears as you come to a red light, as you never know when it may turn green - and it'd be stupid to leave it in high gear, or have it in first if you're going to need to get going again. I do not recomend pushing the clutch in and then simply going straight to first - this'll wear out the snychros eventually, and is a dumb idea anyway unless you're certain you're going to stop (in which case you'd want to be in nuetral anyway so you don't cause wear on the throwout bearing - unless of course you're just stopping for a stop-sign)
A habbit I've gotten from 2-strokers is to knock it out of gear when coming to a light, because 2-stroke engines "buck" (do to irregular firing when the throttle is closed) instead of providing the engine braking effect a 4-stroker does. This is a good way to handle this situation, because you can simply put it in the proper gear if traffic gets going again before you come to a stop.

OK. I've heard enough :bs: . I'm outta here.

OK. I've heard enough :bs: . I'm outta here.

Uh oh - somebody doesn't like it that people may actually have different opinions than their own... or drive differently... :loser:
But I do have to ask - what do you have against shifting down through the gears as you slow down? (or does anybody else know why we "DO NOT DO THIS" ?)

It is common knowledge that a lot more wear and tear is placed on both the clutch and the transmission when you use engine braking (unless you make a habit of double-clutching in normal city driving situations, which is ridiculous). 2strokebloke, I tend to agree with your approach of popping the car into neutral and coasting/breaking until coming to a full stop. The brakes are there for a reason and are a hell of a lot cheaper to replace than a clutch.

The clutch only wears when there are a difference in speed between the engine and gearbox, simply match the engine speed with the throttle and there will be no problem. Transmission wear will not be an issue.

Most people that put the gear into neutral and slow down is because they can't drive that good, and doing it this way is much easier.

Then of course you will save fuel by downshifting and using the engine to brake (as modern engines shut off the fuel during engine braking).

It's however not recommended to use 2 stroke engines for braking, this since the fuel is mainly shut off when doing this, and with the fuel also the lubrication.

There may be a very miniscule increase in wear on the clutch when using the engine to brake, however if you do not, then there will be an increase in wear on the brakes. I downshift whenever I stop, and I am just doing my clutch now, after almost 200,000 km. Shift quickly and match rpm's and your clutch will love you long time. By the way, you use your engine as a brake by simply downshifting...you use the engines vacuum to help slow down.

I drive more kms/miles a year than I would say at least 99% of the members here, Iv been driving trucks and cars profesionaly for the last 5 years.

And I agree totaly with what SaabJohan, Sluttypatton and 2strokebloke have to say.
Having a car in neutral while slowing down removes a major form of control from the driver, should something change with out warning, being able to acclerate away from the hazard can be a life saver.

And any claims that there is increased wear on the driveline are pure BS. An engine and transmission experiance most of thier wear during accleration, the forces encoutered during deccleration are significantly less, to the point of being insignificant. However the saving in wear on the braking system can be quite noticable. You only have to look at the brake pad change period between a correctly driven manaul car and an automatic. The brake pads on a manual car can last up to 30% longer than those on an automatic.

Well, there's no real way to win this argument one way or the other. The bottom line is, it is a matter of personal preference. I personally prefer to use my brakes for their intended purpose rather than worry about double-clutching, heel-and-toeing, etc. in order to prevent wear and tear on the clutch and transmission, especially when driving in the city. I mean, I love my car, but I don't love it enough to constantly shift gears and play with the pedals when there's no real good reason to do so. And besides, brake pads cost what, $30 to replace; a clutch costs well over $1000. My last car was an automatic and I drove it for 5 years before trading it in and didn't have to replace the brakes on it once. I sure as hell am not going to worry about it now on my manual car.

It is common knowledge that a lot more wear and tear is placed on both the clutch and the transmission when you use engine braking (unless you make a habit of double-clutching in normal city driving situations, which is ridiculous). 2strokebloke, I tend to agree with your approach of popping the car into neutral and coasting/breaking until coming to a full stop. The brakes are there for a reason and are a hell of a lot cheaper to replace than a clutch.

Folks, it depends on what you are driving.
Chick is right, if you are just driving a car, especially around town.
If you are driving with a heavy load, lots of weight, towing a trailer or driving a big truck, you want to downshift to maintain greater control.

As I drive in both situations, I let the driving conditions and situation dictate my driving style.

Also people.....be nicer to each other!! :smile:

I prefer to use the engine to slow down as well as the brake. However, I do not use the clutch at all in my Jimmy, except from a dead stop, or to a dead stop. If you get to know the vehicle well enough, you can accomplish this easily enough. This does not wear out the clutch, because it is always engaged. The trick is to exactly match the speed of the engine to the gear and speed that you are driving. If you do it wrong though, you can seriously wreck a perfectly healthy transmission.

On a side note, it was my father who taught me to drive in this fashion, and he has been driving transports for the better part of 30 years.

But hell, to each their own!

The clutch only wears when there are a difference in speed between the engine and gearbox, simply match the engine speed with the throttle and there will be no problem. Transmission wear will not be an issue.

Most people that put the gear into neutral and slow down is because they can't drive that good, and doing it this way is much easier.

Then of course you will save fuel by downshifting and using the engine to brake (as modern engines shut off the fuel during engine braking).

It's however not recommended to use 2 stroke engines for braking, this since the fuel is mainly shut off when doing this, and with the fuel also the lubrication.


One thing that doesn't make sense to me is your claim that you save fuel by downshifting as the engine shuts off the fuel, but then you have to give the engine some gas while downshifting in order to match the revs. This sounds like a contradiction to me (in fact, rev matching would waste more gas, wouldn't it?), but maybe I'm just missing something..

Downshifting to slow down to a red light is a waste of gas when you're driving in city in a passenger car. Slowing down from 50 mph, I would rather leave it in 5th, and slow down until stop, then put it in neutral at the stop light, OR if traffic happens to speed up before I come to a stop, then I'll rev match and put it in the optimal gear for accelerating, may it be 2nd, 3rd, or 4th.

You should only shift if your rpms or speed drops out of the optimal range. With that said, I'd only downshift if I'm going to pass someone on the freeway or if I'm driving mountain roads where you leave your engine in an optimal gear so you won't have to keep shifting.

Why downshift when it is unncessary and increases likelihood of premature wear on your transmission?

my general rule of driving: 98% of the time shift into neutral when reaching a stoplight or stop sign and just coast letting the car's momentum keep you going and natural friction slow you down until i start braking, if traffic suddenly starts up, i simply rev match and put it in the proper gear and head off... the only time i ever downshift is when traffic slows down but not to a stop

Downshifting to slow down to a red light is a waste of gas when you're driving in city in a passenger car. Slowing down from 50 mph, I would rather leave it in 5th, and slow down until stop, then put it in neutral at the stop light, OR if traffic happens to speed up before I come to a stop, then I'll rev match and put it in the optimal gear for accelerating, may it be 2nd, 3rd, or 4th.

You should only shift if your rpms or speed drops out of the optimal range. With that said, I'd only downshift if I'm going to pass someone on the freeway or if I'm driving mountain roads where you leave your engine in an optimal gear so you won't have to keep shifting.

Why downshift when it is unncessary and increases likelihood of premature wear on your transmission?

My point exactly.

I don't know about leaving the car in 5th until coming to a full stop; I think my engine would stall if I did that. I usually pop it in neutral when I reach 15-20 mph (at the latest), but the general idea is the same. No need to wear out your clutch/transmission unless you absolutely need to (i.e. unless you're going up/down a hill, making a sharp turn, passing someone, etc.).

And if traffic does pick up while you're slowing down, it only takes a second to shift to the appropriate gear, so you're not really relinquishing any control, as some individuals claim is the case.

Anyway, I guess some people just find it fun to downshift all the time, whether the situation warrants it or not. If that's the case, then who are we to tell them otherwise?

Gee...its a good thing no one replying actually drives a stick.

yes, its ALWAYS a good practice to use engine compression to slow down. It will not wear out the tranny. It will not wear out the clutch.

Its even a good idea if you have an automatic.

And please note, I do such on everything from atvs to motorcycles to LeCars up to 700hp race cars to 18 wheelers.

Just downshift as you normally would until you are at a complete stop I don't shift into first when I am coming to that complete stop. I stop fully, then shift into first. Better for your synchros. The first gear synchros always take a beating.

Gee...its a good thing no one replying actually drives a stick.

yes, its ALWAYS a good practice to use engine compression to slow down. It will not wear out the tranny. It will not wear out the clutch.

Its even a good idea if you have an automatic.

And please note, I do such on everything from atvs to motorcycles to LeCars up to 700hp race cars to 18 wheelers.

Gee, it's a good thing you're not driving my car. Otherwise I'd have to scrap it in a year. Also, it might help if you read up on how engines/clutches/transmissions work before making the above claims.

While I don't have the answer to your shifting whoas, I wouldn't be so quick to question the credentials of quaddriver. He and SaabJohan are regulars around here And are on top their game most all the time. They tend to have quite a bit of "real world" experience on topics - they aren't just google parrots.

So while in this instance they may or may not be correct (I do not drive a stick), it is at least worth looking into as they are not usually far off.

Gee, it's a good thing you're not driving my car. Otherwise I'd have to scrap it in a year.

Why? are they junk? It pays to do maint. 2 of my vehicles (tow vehicles no less) have well over 220000 miles on them...

Also, it might help if you read up on how engines/clutches/transmissions work before making the above claims.

Ok done. Now what is it you wanted to know? (btw, roughly 24 years ago I got my drivers license on a 1979 MGB with the 4spd+od. That is a british sports car. Like riding a bicycle or sex, once you learn properly you never forget.

:

1: in gear or not, the shafts and gears of a manual tranny are always turning when the vehicle is moving. Even if the clutch is in. The incidence of bearing failure in a non-truck tranny is so rare as to be considered non-existant.

2: if you dump the clutch on a power-off downshift, you do not slip the clutch any appreciable amount. Certainly a years worth of such downshifts would wear less than one take off from a stop on a hill.

2a: however you can break the drive wheels loose under poor traction conditions. The proper technique is to goose the throttle if you are not doing a double or a heel/toe

3: holding the clutch in longer than you have to loads the throwout bearing. If you must disconnect the engine from the drivetrain, select neutral/clutch out.

4: how the heck can you properly control a car with no downshifts? Even an automatic selects lower gears at lower coast down speeds.

5: using compression braking saves scads on the 'other brakes' in the car - i.e. the service brakes. Some people find it preferable to have zero fade going down long grades in case bambi decides to go for a walk.

6: Im thinking you dont do any road racing, or at the very least spirited driving.

"4: how the heck can you properly control a car with no downshifts? Even an automatic selects lower gears at lower coast down speeds."

i've always learned to put it in neutral, not on every occasion, but that its perfectly alright to put it in neutral when coming to a complete stop or just plain coasting (though not a constant downhill, that requires downshifting)

its actually very easy to control a vehicle in neutral

(in the case of regular everyday downshifting, i rarely ever downshift due to the characteristics of the traffic in my area, there are millions of stop lights and plenty of traffic, you're coming to a stop, there's a 99% chance that the traffic wont start moving while youre moving, in which case its easier than anything else just to rev match and put it in gear... kind of double-clutching if you will)

3: holding the clutch in longer than you have to loads the throwout bearing. If you must disconnect the engine from the drivetrain, select neutral/clutch out.


I never said I hold the clutch in. I always release it once I shift out of gear.



4: how the heck can you properly control a car with no downshifts? Even an automatic selects lower gears at lower coast down speeds.


That depends on how fast you're decelerating. If you're stopping very rapidly even autos don't get the chance to downshift through all the gears.


5: using compression braking saves scads on the 'other brakes' in the car - i.e. the service brakes. Some people find it preferable to have zero fade going down long grades in case bambi decides to go for a walk.


See, that's one of the exceptions. Obviously it is not only preferable, but imperative to downshift to a lower gear when going downhill, as the brakes may overheat and fail otherwise.


6: Im thinking you dont do any road racing, or at the very least spirited driving.

Exactly. I never do any road racing, which is why I don't have the "racer" mentality or driving habits. I just drive according to what I believe is optimal in any given situation, which may be considered conservative by certain more aggressive/adventurous drivers.

If I'm approaching a stale red light that could turn green any second, I will often downshift accordingly. If traffic is gradually slowing down, I will downshift in this case as well. I will obviously downshift when approaching a sharp turn or a steep downhill terrain. However, if I am approaching a fresh red light or a stop sign and decelerating fairly fast, then I don't have time/can't be bothered/don't find the necessity to downshift through all the gears. The only downside to this is that the brakes need to take away most of the car's kinetic energy in this situation. But like I said, brakes are dirt cheap to replace and I didn't even have to do it once during the five years when I had my previous (automatic) car.

So basically, this is a matter of personal preference. It is unreasonable to say that everyone should always use one approach or the other under all circumstances, as different approaches may work better in different situations for different drivers and each has its advantages and drawbacks. If you want to ALWAYS downshift, go right ahead. Just don't tell others that's what they MUST do as well.

While I don't have the answer to your shifting whoas, I wouldn't be so quick to question the credentials of quaddriver. He and SaabJohan are regulars around here And are on top their game most all the time. They tend to have quite a bit of "real world" experience on topics - they aren't just google parrots.

So while in this instance they may or may not be correct (I do not drive a stick), it is at least worth looking into as they are not usually far off.

I understand that these members have been here for a while and may have more experience than some of us. But just because someone has experience with something, does not necessarily mean that they are doing things correctly. For example, I have a friend who has been driving manual cars for at least 15 years. He usually downshifts to 1st before coming to a stop and holds the clutch in while waiting at a red light, both of which are clearly highly undesirable practices (I'm sure even SaabJohan and quaddriver would agree with me on this one).

That possibility aside, even if they are doing things correctly and understand the underlying mechanics, most of the time with cars and with life in general, there is more than one right way to accomplish a task. And when I read things like "Gee...its a good thing no one replying actually drives a stick.", I get somewhat aggravated, because he has no right to put others down just because they drive differently from him. I may not have as much experience as him, but I have driven manual long enough and done enough technical research, as well as heard enough varying (and sometimes conflicting) opinions from more experienced drivers, to draw conclusions about what constitutes a valid approach. I'm not saying that quaddriver's technique is wrong by any means. It is just one of several perfectly valid ways to slow a car down and I personally choose not to use that technique ALL the time (i.e. when I find it impractical). I am more than convinced that the way I handle deceleration is no less acceptable than his approach. I just find his overbearing attitude very inappropriate.

I get somewhat aggravated, because he has no right to put others down just because they drive differently from him.

It has nothing to do with a put down. Just because someone can let out a clutch at a light, and perhaps stab it once or twice while going down the road does not mean they are driving the car - they are operating it.

Correct procedures are called that simply because they are correct. If you ask a question, dont get agro if the answer is not what you want to hear. Like it or not, staying in a gear too 'tall' or high for the situation is a mistake. It matters not if you are running lemans or going to get a pint of ben & jerrys. If the car was an automatic, and governor pressure did not force a downshift, when you climb back on the gas, the meticulously programmed valve body will select a proper gear. If you are in a manual car and listen to the 'lug' (the grinding, rattling noise) you have harmed the engine.

You took offense to my stating that it will not wear out a clutch or tranny by downshifting. You asked me to go read up on engines and clutches etc. If I were nasty I would ask you to qualify your statements the same. You even suggested my methods would junk your car.

the point is, it is bad enuf that people for the most part 'operate' cars and do not in fact drive them. Unfortunately, whereas the manual transmission is the cheapest option in a car, it also requires the most driver input. The driver must become the defacto standard valve body. A delayed, late or improper shift should be viewed with as much a jaundiced eye as an automatic doing the same.

I never used the words must do, I said it is always a good practice. So is putting down landing gear when landing a plane.

I don't know who put it in your head that I leave my transmission in a high gear while going too slow for that gear. I always shift into neutral (or downshift) long before any lugging takes place.

The majority of stick shift drivers don't practice standard racing techniques such as double-clutching or heel-and-toeing in normal city driving conditions, not necessarily because they don't know how, but mainly because there is no need for that and most of us are not obsessed with taking our manual transmission to the limit. However, that does not mean that these people are bad drivers.

The techniques of which you are such an ardent proponent may have been necessary in the past when most cars had manual drum brakes, but are absolutely unnecessary with today's hydraulic disc brake technology which takes a lot of the onus away from the driver. Obviously, you are adamant that whoever doesn't follow your obsolete driving techniques must be wearing out their throwout bearing, damaging their engine :screwy: and is quite plainly an incompetent driver. If making yourself believe that you are superior to others simply because you clutch and shift twice as often as they do is what gets you through the day, good for you. I will never agree with you either way, so have fun imposing your outdated redundant techniques onto other more impressionable people.

Like I said, I don't know whether or not anyone is correct or incorrect on this specific issue since I myself do not drive a manual. The topic was just starting to get heated, and people began questioning others credentials. I'll definitely agree with you when you say that sometimes there is more than one correct way to do something and that experience doesn't always indicate wisdom. However, in my experience, the individuals I indicated in my previous post know there stuff and usually offer sound judgements and opinions.

standard_chick offer us some proof to your claims that there is increased wear on gearbox and clutch when down shifting while slowing down and we might pay you some more attention and a little more repsect.

In the mean time those of us who drive profesionaly, and those who have learned how to drive correctly shall continue to down shift while slowing down, knowing that we are the better drivers, and hoping that we dont get either stuck behind you in traffic or encounter you at an intersection.

I don't know who put it in your head that I leave my transmission in a high gear while going too slow for that gear. I always shift into neutral (or downshift) long before any lugging takes place.

The majority of stick shift drivers don't practice standard racing techniques such as double-clutching or heel-and-toeing in normal city driving conditions, not necessarily because they don't know how, but mainly because there is no need for that and most of us are not obsessed with taking our manual transmission to the limit. However, that does not mean that these people are bad drivers.

The techniques of which you are such an ardent proponent may have been necessary in the past when most cars had manual drum brakes, but are absolutely unnecessary with today's hydraulic disc brake technology which takes a lot of the onus away from the driver. Obviously, you are adamant that whoever doesn't follow your obsolete driving techniques must be damaging their engine :screwy: and is quite plainly an incompetent driver. If making yourself believe that you are superior to others simply because you clutch and shift twice as often as they do is what gets you through the day, good for you. I will never agree with you either way, so have fun imposing your faulty beliefs onto other more impressionable people.

Where do you get this stuff? I know you didnt fail to read my first post, in fact you quoted all of it. I will do so again now:

Gee...its a good thing no one replying actually drives a stick.

yes, its ALWAYS a good practice to use engine compression to slow down. It will not wear out the tranny. It will not wear out the clutch.

Its even a good idea if you have an automatic.

And please note, I do such on everything from atvs to motorcycles to LeCars up to 700hp race cars to 18 wheelers

Please note that what I actually said, versus what you attribute to me saying dont even share common words, let alone sentences and ideas.

Your response to my first post? Let us quote:

Gee, it's a good thing you're not driving my car. Otherwise I'd have to scrap it in a year. Also, it might help if you read up on how engines/clutches/transmissions work before making the above claims.

So lets sum up:

I say: downshifting does not wear out parts, as was previously claimed.

You say: downshifting will wreck my car and you need to educate yourself

Later you say: your driving techniques are obsolete.

Would it be too much to ask to have you actually attempt to substantiate any of your claims?

My driving is 'superior' (your words) simply because I know how to control a multitude of vehicles in all situations and have proven it over the years with unblemished record. That is not at dispute. What is at dispute is my 'faulty beliefs' (your words not mine) and how you come to judge them as such.

Well, if the way you gauge the effectiveness of your driving techniques is by your driving record, then I'll have you know that I have an unblemished record, too and so do others I know who have been using my approach of slowing down for many years. And I live in a huge city with lots of traffic jams, stop-and-go traffic, etc. Which only goes to show that it is by no means more dangerous to coast while coming to a stop rather than downshift. Which brings me back to the point that in certain situations, on modern cars (and I mean specifically passenger cars, not trucks, tow vehicles or any other heavy-duty motor vehicles) downshifting has no real advantage over coasting. Downshifting is no longer the only correct way to slow down. It may be considered more fun, but then why don't you just get a joystick and play computer games in your car while driving.

who cares? one side hates putting a vehicle in neutral... the other hates constantly downshifting... how much of a difference do the two make on actual roads with actual traffic? almost none, the only noticable differences is when you're driving a large vehicle or are towing something, in which case you need that extra engine compression to help stop... neither is going to destroy your vehicle, neither is going to make the roads any more safe than they already were, and unless youre speeding or coming to a sudden stop, then the engine compression wont make any difference vs. putting the vehicle in neutral

(my thought process: im given 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, R, N and im going to take advantage of every gear selection to make driving as smooth as possible, there is also no way to use these gears that is written in stone)

BTW, if anything, downshifting is actually more dangerous, because if you are using downshifting to slow down and so the person driving behind you never sees your brake lights come on and doesn't realize that you are decelerating, they may rear-end you. Actually, there are sections in the city where I used to live that have signs saying "Do not use engine braking". So not only is this practice not desirable in some cases, it is discouraged and considered unsafe by the local authorities (and I'm sure they didn't just put those signs up because they were bored and wanted to exercise their authority over the general population).

who cares? one side hates putting a vehicle in neutral... the other hates constantly downshifting... how much of a difference do the two make on actual roads with actual traffic? almost none, the only noticable differences is when you're driving a large vehicle or are towing something, in which case you need that extra engine compression to help stop... neither is going to destroy your vehicle, neither is going to make the roads any more safe than they already were, and unless youre speeding or coming to a sudden stop, then the engine compression wont make any difference vs. putting the vehicle in neutral

(my thought process: im given 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, R, N and im going to take advantage of every gear selection to make driving as smooth as possible, there is also no way to use these gears that is written in stone)

That's my point exactly. I acknowledge and practice the idea of adapting one's driving techniques to the situation at hand, i.e. you don't ALWAYS do one thing vs. other in all conditions just because someone told you long ago that's how you're supposed to do it. The only reason I've been arguing about this all this time is that quaddriver has this attitude that everyone who doesn't follow his "set-in-stone" driving methods is an incompetent driver.

And just for the record, yes, I did exaggerate when I suggested that constant downshifting would wreck my car in a year (ok, maybe it will take 2 years :)), but it is no more of an exaggeration than the statement "Gee...its a good thing no one replying actually drives a stick."

standard_chick offer us some proof to your claims that there is increased wear on gearbox and clutch when down shifting while slowing down and we might pay you some more attention and a little more repsect.

In the mean time those of us who drive profesionaly, and those who have learned how to drive correctly shall continue to down shift while slowing down, knowing that we are the better drivers, and hoping that we dont get either stuck behind you in traffic or encounter you at an intersection.

Just type "downshift clutch wear" in a Google search and you'll get hundreds of results referencing websites that tell you all about synchro and clutch wear when downshifting. Some of them have nifty diagrams and highly technical explanations that you may find more worthy of respect than my posts. Most of them also strongly recommend that you either double-clutch or heel-and-toe when downshifting so as to minimize this inherent component wear. And since I find it ridiculous to practice these techniques in normal city driving conditions, I often choose to place most of the workload on the cheaper components, i.e. the breaks (which is what they are for anyway). Incidentally, this does not take any control away from the driver, if he/she is competent enough that is, as they can quickly shift into the appropriate gear if traffic happens to pick up.

My god, could you be any more ignorant! Either of you.


"No Engine Braking signs" are often placed at the edge of town and city limits to advise truck drivers that there is a local by law prohibiting it. Not because its dangerous :rolleyes: but because an engine brake on a truck is very noisey. If you happen to living close to a main highway, the sound of trucks engine braking all night long would prevent even the deepest sleeper getting any rest.


I put "downshift clutch wear" into google and I came up with a whole lot of links to forums where people have written articles mostly on double clutching, and its use in motorsport, and in transmissions with no, or worn synchromesh.
All make refernce to slowing down very quickly, or downshifting for suddern accleration, all of which are circumstances in which the layshaft and input shaft will not be running at the same speed, and the chance of increased wear is increased.
However if your slowing down for an intersection then you should be doing it at such a rate and selecting such gears that the shafts are turning at the same or very similar speed anyway, and so there is no increased wear, and no need double the clutch, or preform any other form of rev matching.

If you are having trouble then you are probobly slowing down to quickly, and need to relax a little when driving, or you are trying to select to low a gear, to early, and again you need to learn to relax a little and focus on what speed the car is doing relative to what gear its in, and how fast its losing speed relative to how fast the engine is turning.


The only reason I've been arguing about this all this time is that quaddriver has this attitude that everyone who doesn't follow his "set-in-stone" driving methods is an incompetent driver.

I don't where you got that from, but its not the attitude that I have seen.
What I have seen is quaddriver and other presenting a series of facts and methods that making driving safer based on personal experiance, accepted practice and well proven enginering method. And I have then seen you simply disagree useing little to no reasoning, personal attacks and your own unfounded opinion.
standard_chick you are the one who needs to accept that they are wrong, you are more than welcome to continue driving the way you do, but that is no foundation for you to try and force your own misguided ways upon others and claim them to be fact, when you have no surporting evidence.


I suggest you try searching for "theorys of reason and arugment" and "scientific method" in google, and since you seem to consider the internet to be the source of all that is right, reading up on it and learning how to apply some very basic techniques.


This disscussion is now closed.