Tein isn't a fad...

Something I feel that I should bring up is the Tein issue. :cya: Now I see people saying "YES, go Tein!!!" and other similar lines refering to Tein, left and right on here. Ok, you're thingking "yeah, but you do it too, and even more than all of us..." Well that may be true. When I suggest Tein to people or talk about it, it's because I speak from experience being that my car rolls on a set as it has for a little over a year now. But it bugs me when people suggest it to others without a reason, and not having any experience with them. I don't want people to spend the $$$ on them just to be cool and so they can say "I have Tein, bring it on!" and they don't even plan on doing anything serious with the car other than maybe drag race it or have it in shows. A serious waste of money there IMO. Yes they are pretty streetable (one of the most streetable I've ridden on actually) but they are still designed at heart with race and performance in mind. I'd hate to see them turn into the next "Altezza tail light" fad though. I'm not going to say "don't suggest them to anyone unless you own a set or ride on them regularly" but at least have a reason why people should get them. It's like if I was to ask what intake to get, people would 9 of 10 times tell me AEM. Why? Probably because AEM is to intakes what Nike is to shoes, it's a fad, unless it's the V2 model. Pretty much all short rams perform the same (it's the filter on the end that matters) and most CAI's the same thing applies. Ok, I guess my rant is over with now. :uhoh:

Tein is straight from Japan, so its JDM dude, its the best PHO sHO.

Its the way it is, people want parts, with a name they can throw around and people will be like "wow".

The fact is, the Honda people on here will be through with the fad in the next 1-2 years.

Subaru has taken the torch for the trend seekers now, IMO.

We should see people taking a bit more interest in serious tuning.

Not trying to be a smartass, but I am looking at going with air or coil-overs. The only racing I would plan on doing is like a friend on the street (just a quick red light race, nothing serious at all) So what would you recommend if I were to get coil-overs? I want a VERY smooth ride and I plan on getting low profile 17s.

Not trying to be a smartass, but I am looking at going with air or coil-overs. The only racing I would plan on doing is like a friend on the street (just a quick red light race, nothing serious at all) So what would you recommend if I were to get coil-overs? I want a VERY smooth ride and I plan on getting low profile 17s.

Why do you need coilovers? For a little Red light racing and street driving?

Not trying to be a smartass, but I am looking at going with air or coil-overs. The only racing I would plan on doing is like a friend on the street (just a quick red light race, nothing serious at all) So what would you recommend if I were to get coil-overs? I want a VERY smooth ride and I plan on getting low profile 17s.


I'd recommend you get something like Eibach Pro Kit, Neuspeed Sports, or Tein S. Tech in terms of lowering springs, and then matching them with some Koni Yellow shocks. I have a friend who rolls on Neuspeed sports and Konis and by far it's the closest feel to my Tein's that I know of, and for a little bit cheaper. You can't adjust the height of course, but you can adjust the shock dampening level between 5 settings. It's a comforable setup that's not terribly bouncy. There's always the Tein Basic Dampener kit, but unless you KNOW you're gonna use the height adjustability portion of them, they are pointless to get, as would be ANY height adjustable springs/coilover set for that matter.

As for air bags or cylinders, (I'd get cylinders ANYDAY over bags) they take some extra care. They are mainly for show, and should be treated as such. If you plan on doing ANY sort of racingt on them (even red light to red light racing) I wouldn't get them. Well cylinders might hold up better, but bags are very sensative, and WILL pop when any significant lateral G-load is acted upon them. Cylinders can also break or fail on you if you do any sort of handling type performance driving. They are by no means recommended for taking corners at any speed other than typical grandma driving speed style. If you ARE set on coilovers, it depends on a few factors. Do you want any sort of adjustability of them, or just something that gives your car a lower ride look, and feels comfortable on the road? Again, the Tein Basic kit isn't a bad way to go, not that expensive (when you combine the cost that shocks/springs will let you back anyways) and you can get them custom ordered to your preferance of spring rates and even shock tube valving as well.

Tein is straight from Japan, so its JDM dude, its the best PHO sHO.

Its the way it is, people want parts, with a name they can throw around and people will be like "wow".

The fact is, the Honda people on here will be through with the fad in the next 1-2 years.

Subaru has taken the torch for the trend seekers now, IMO.

We should see people taking a bit more interest in serious tuning.

I agree with that, and that's the thing, many people hype on it just because it's from Japan. So is JIC Tanabe, and A'PEXi though, but when was the last time (on AF.com at least) that you heard some one ranting and raving, let alone purchased a set of either of those systems? I myself would LOVE to hear feedback from owners of those systems. I'm glad I got my Tein when I did, because it was before the whole "fad" of them began, so I feel a little more original with mine. :p There's PLENTY of other options as far as suspension goes that'll keep one JDM (Tein does also make normal lowering springs for those that weren't aware of that) not to mention various Spoon and Mugen springs, shocks and other suspension parts. Hey, nothing more JDM than boasting a complete JDM Type-R 5-lug suspension on your Honda. :cool: The other thing about Tein that works in their favor, is their products are very reasonably priced. People that complain Tein is expensive obviously haven't reasearched ALL the full coilover systems out there, I've seen some that go for $1200 per CORNER. Yeah, that's damn near $5g's for a full set of coilovers. Tein juist markets well, has many years of experience in this field (over 15 years now) and it helps that they dominate over 60% of the entire suspension market in Japan.

People that buy parts just to flaunt a name, are pretty dumb in most cases. The DC Sports fad for one. I see Civics and Tegs ALL over here in LA with DC loer tie bars and/or DC strut bars. For one they are WAY overprice for what they are. Rhey are some of the worst quality of parts I've seen, and their bars actually FLEX if you pull or push down on them. What good is a strut bar for strengthening if it's going to flex under minimal load exurtions on it? This only applies to their original line of bars, I'm not sure how better their new design of junk, err I mean stuff is. ;) Actually if you have a good thick swaybar, a lower tie bar is almost useless for anything other than looking pretty under the car.

I am by no means an expert in the suspension field, but I'd consider my self moderately knowledgeable with it. I do appreciate anyone that calls me the master or expert at it, but I'm getting there. ;) I started out the same way any of you out there did with it, not knowing much about it, asking LOTS of questions, and then talking with people and particularly tech reps. of the companies I was looking into for my suspension needs, and then finally I decided on a product, got a second job so I could really start saving my pennies for what I wanted, and I bought them and put them on. If I could do it all over again, I don't think Id do anything differently, I am THAT satisfied. You also want feedback from people with actual working experience of products, not just someone that suggests it because of what they heard. Remember, what works for one person won't always work for another. I've done a lot of reading up on and talking to people in the suspension field, and some first hand experience with actually driving or riding on various suspension setups.

The fact is the JDM suspension setups are not worth the money, they never have been.

You don't need them for autocross, you don't need them for road race.

Most people who are serious, about road race will choose a more advanced setup than kits like those, and choose the spring rates, and valving for the shocks. Not pick some 2000$ coilover kit like some of them.

If people buy these (higher end JDM coilovers) kits for Hondas the only thing they will have is
1.)Less money
2.)The name
3.)And a harsh ride

Their cars won't handle better.
Spend 300$ on a driving class, spend some time learning vehicle dynamics, and get some good tires and maybe some sport springs. Head out to an autox and learn how to apply driving skill, to managing the handling of the car.

hey mat.....i loved my coiless handling.....no body roll....no nothing but bouncing.....way better than tein.....the best 2hrs spent on my car..... :bananadie hahaha just givin u a hard time matt

I know this is an old thread and u veteran AF guys are probably goin to get pissy but I'm new and this thread was a little before I joined. Anyway I agree w/ what you- silverY2kcivic- are saying. Alot of people are just into fads and the whole "its JDM I'm cool" b.s. even if its not a smart decision. I am not one of those people though. Anyway I was thinkingf about going w/ Tien and DC for strut bars :eek: I came to this the same way u did when you were a new tuner by asking questions, a shit load of questions. In fact people had to convince me to go DC cuz I thought, and still kinda think, they are a little to expensive since I know that there are other companies just as good. Like I said I'm new to this sight and I like the comments I read from you and other responders to this thread and I am trying to get in good w/ people who know what the hell the are talking about- which is kinda hard on this sight cuz everyone knows everything. Also you-sivlerY2kcivic- live in So. CA- where about. Im in alhambra maybe we can meet up sometime- Im all into making friends who are knowledgeable about car performance.

this is like the first thread you started up in awhile ain't it matt? :p

anywho, i'd like to comment. I got a set of Neuspeed Sports springs that were on my car before i got it. It gives a good 2.5" or so drop which i was content with. Now waiting for auto-x to come back into town and realizing that my shocks are gone after almost hitting my head on my cieling for the last month, i thought about ditching the springs and starting over with a coilover kit, yes by Tein. That idea lasted a whole day before i realized a set of Koni Yellows in combination with the springs i have now would do just fine. Next was the swaybar and that is currently being worked on. So after i find the time to go get the shocks and figure out the slight swaybar problem, i'll be set. And will i have bought a set of coilovers? no. If i had my cars stock suspension, no question i'd go with a set of coilovers, but seeing how i already have a set of lowering springs that i like it'd just be a waste of my money. just my 2 cents.

ra227, dude you live in alhambra. If you haven't already found people in that neighborhood who are knowledgeable about cars, you got a serious problem. :lol2:

p.s. - how'd i miss this thread until now?

this is like the first thread you started up in awhile ain't it matt? :p

anywho, i'd like to comment. I got a set of Neuspeed Sports springs that were on my car before i got it. It gives a good 2.5" or so drop which i was content with. Now waiting for auto-x to come back into town and realizing that my shocks are gone after almost hitting my head on my cieling for the last month, i thought about ditching the springs and starting over with a coilover kit, yes by Tein. That idea lasted a whole day before i realized a set of Koni Yellows in combination with the springs i have now would do just fine. Next was the swaybar and that is currently being worked on. So after i find the time to go get the shocks and figure out the slight swaybar problem, i'll be set. And will i have bought a set of coilovers? no. If i had my cars stock suspension, no question i'd go with a set of coilovers, but seeing how i already have a set of lowering springs that i like it'd just be a waste of my money. just my 2 cents.

ra227, dude you live in alhambra. If you haven't already found people in that neighborhood who are knowledgeable about cars, you got a serious problem. :lol2:

p.s. - how'd i miss this thread until now?

David, geez!!! It's like this in Alhambra, either you drive rice, or you drive a Camry or Previa. :lol2: haha, naw, JK! But I hve yet to see some DECENTLY fixed up cars in Alhambra, well that live there at least, most just pass on through, no doubt they are in the area though. I think I might need to help you with that swaybar, it's killing me you can't install it, hehe.

As for ra227, whatever you do, DO NOT get DC bars. They are about the WORST designed ones I have ever seen or experienced. When installed you can actually flex them by leaning on it with your hand, not very structually stiff if you ask me, I sure as heck wouldn't put them on my car, even if DC Sports themselves asked me to. DC bars (and even their engine junk) is all for show IMO. Their bars definitely are just for show, that much I can tell you. They use crappy metal for the main bar piece (even generic aluminum bars I've had didn't flex like that) and they make them with the stupid universal adjust and fit hinge design for where the bar mounts to the strut towers. You want a bar that's one solid piece of metal from end to end if possible. That's how my Heuspeed bar is, and it costs the same, actually a little LESS than the DC bar. Mugen, Neuspeed, Cusco and Benen all make excellent strut and tie bars.

Like I said in my post, if you think Tein will work for you (for actual functionality reasons) then by all means get it! My thing is, if you're just going for name and style, you're wasting your money. If you buy DC products, you're wasting your money no matter what. :screwy: But if Tein is what seems like it'll work for you, then get them, you won't be dissapointed, that much I can tell you. I live in Pasadena myself. Hit me up sometime on AIM or in a PM or email, and I'll tell you the best place around here to get them from, and it's also the cheapest place for them as well. Excellent shop, I've bought several things from them. In fact, this week I'm going to be ordering some stiffer springs for my Teins as to increase their effectiveness, control and stability.

I've only lived in Alhambra for a year maybe less. No its not hard to find people who fix up their cars, but to find people who do it right and get quality parts is. Don't get me wrong I have seen some nice ass cars but I didn't try to flag them down and ask for tuning help. :shakehead As far as shops go the main one I've seen and been to many times in Alhambra is Super VIP. I've had them install stuff before, and the guy and his son that do speakers are really cool, but overall they are a bunch of assholes who give you half-assed info. and act like they are better than u, unless u already have a tricked out ride. Same experience w/ my friends that have gone their. They- Super V.I.P.- recommended DC strut bars. I knew that DC wasnt that damn good but was only going off of info given to me. Ive found other little shops in the Monterey Park area like VIS and some others I dont remember the names to. Thanks for the info though and I will be sure to hit u up on the email thing for the shops as long as one of them is not Super VIP. I am very familiar w/ Pasadena, Blair H.S. graduate- we sucked in football and everything else 'cept soccer and volleyball- and have been looking for shops in that area. I really appreciate the help.

P.S. MotherF@#$!ing Super F*&^%ing V.I. MotherF!!@#ing P Sucks :swear: :twak: :banghead: :loser: :bricks1: :mad:

:eek:

I've only lived in Alhambra for a year maybe less. No its not hard to find people who fix up their cars, but to find people who do it right and get quality parts is. Don't get me wrong I have seen some nice ass cars but I didn't try to flag them down and ask for tuning help. :shakehead As far as shops go the main one I've seen and been to many times in Alhambra is Super VIP. I've had them install stuff before, and the guy and his son that do speakers are really cool, but overall they are a bunch of assholes who give you half-assed info. and act like they are better than u, unless u already have a tricked out ride. Same experience w/ my friends that have gone their. They- Super V.I.P.- recommended DC strut bars. I knew that DC wasnt that damn good but was only going off of info given to me. Ive found other little shops in the Monterey Park area like VIS and some others I dont remember the names to. Thanks for the info though and I will be sure to hit u up on the email thing for the shops as long as one of them is not Super VIP. I am very familiar w/ Pasadena, Blair H.S. graduate- we sucked in football and everything else 'cept soccer and volleyball- and have been looking for shops in that area. I really appreciate the help.

P.S. MotherF@#$!ing Super F*&^%ing V.I. MotherF!!@#ing P Sucks :swear: :twak: :banghead: :loser: :bricks1: :mad:

:eek:

Uh oh, you're gonna be mad at me then lol, I graduated from HS, as in PHS. :smokin: We sucked in football every year I was there except for '96 and '95 when we made it to CIF divisionals, but whatever.

Man, everytime I hear "Super VIP" I always think of VIP Centers in Monrovia/Pasadena They are a decent shop with some good parts, but expensive as heck! The shops I've dealt with and recommend is Impex Motorsports on San Gabrial bl. just a half block north of Sprewell Racing. It's a small shop, so it's easy to miss. They have great service, can get almost anything you want as far as brands and such, and have some of the most reasonable prices around that I've seen. This is where I got my Tein SS coilovers from as well as my A'PEXi World Sport exhaust system. The Teins set me back $850 (most shops around sell them for at least $1000 if not more) and the exhaust cost me $385 (most shops around wanting over $400 for it). They are also an authorized retailer for Tein as is Pit Crew Motosports down the street from them, but they have higher prices there, that's another good shop though but I haven't yet bought anything from them, just been in to browse stuff and get price quotes. Pit Crew is a pretty cluttered shop, whereas Impex is very clean and welcomeing inside, not to mention the guys there know me fairly well since I drop in by often to price out stuff or look around. Also I hear Autolink in Temple City is another good shop, I haven't yet been there though. Another pair of shops I HAVE dealt with and would highly recommend above almost any others is Inline Four in Westminster (the west coast foremost JDM shop dealing with Hondas ONLY) and JDM Honda Parts in El Monte. Both have great websites, but since they are in our backyard practically save yourself time and shipping and go directly to their shops. Both are very small, but stock A LOT! And both can get you almost any Honda related JDM item you could ever want or desire. www.inlinefour.com www.jdmhondaparts.com For more on the cosmetic side of things, www.autodynamic.com is another great shop I've done a bit of business with. They have a nice friendly shop over in El Monte as well, it's actually borderline with Rosemead. Also in the O/C area is Island Motorsports in Buena Park, I've also dealt with them before. They have a fairly good sized shop that stocks a lot of goodies, and they also have a couple gagrage bays where they can install stuff. Pit Crew can also do installs as can Impex. With these shops mentioned, you should be dissapointed with the results.

Has anyone had any expeirence with Tein Basics? If so how do they feel and could you try to post a little review or something ? I'm debating on buying these for the price obviously, and my friend has OBX true coilovers on his EK hatch and its amazing how much of a difference it made so obviously I want to do it heh, But ya.. i'm not asking about flex's, ha's, or anything just basics, so if you guys could post some info that'd be cool !

David, geez!!! It's like this in Alhambra, either you drive rice, or you drive a Camry or Previa. :lol2: haha, naw, JK! But I hve yet to see some DECENTLY fixed up cars in Alhambra, well that live there at least, most just pass on through, no doubt they are in the area though. I think I might need to help you with that swaybar, it's killing me you can't install it, hehe.

yeah ok hold on. Yeah there's more of that "rice" stuff, but there also more nicely tuned and properly done rides in Alhambra as compared to like Glendora or Rancho Cucamonga. And you got an idea on how to get the bolts on? cause all suggestions are welcome, i haven't gotten to mess with it for awhile now due to lack of time, but tonight and tomorrow look good for this simple bolt on. The smallest things give me problems. I did find another allen key set laying around the house but i doubt that'll do much.
Autolink, Tein is a popular product there - Temple City :iceslolan
Impex - San Gabriel :thumbsup:
VIP Centers - Monrovia and Glendora :shakehead
Autodynamic - South El Monte? - :biggrin:
Island Motorsport - Buena Park :iceslolan

Anywho, i need to start making phone calls for prices on a set of Koni Yellow shocks. I'm willing to bet Impex is gonna be the best bet. I haven't looked into how hard it is to install them which i'm probably sure i can't do myself.

Does Neuspeed make any other front strut bar other than the one that's offered in the polished or black finish?

Naw its cool SilverY2kCivic- everyone from Blair had friends from Muir and HS- including me- so I don't care. Thanks for all the shops though guys I will look into those and w/ all the names given and the good comments i will most likely like at least one of them. Super VIP...cough...sucks ass...cough..cough- is different from VIP centers, at least I think so but I havent been there. Super VIP is on Valley Blvd in Ahambra for those that havent seen it right next to MacDonalds-hard to miss- fairly big. Show Room, or show floor more accurately, is decent some of the people are just jackasses and prices are high for any performance item like a strutbar or headers- more expensive than buying directly from the company- no bullshit. At least their DC strut Bars were.
Thanks Again :cool:

Has anyone had any expeirence with Tein Basics? If so how do they feel and could you try to post a little review or something ? I'm debating on buying these for the price obviously, and my friend has OBX true coilovers on his EK hatch and its amazing how much of a difference it made so obviously I want to do it heh, But ya.. i'm not asking about flex's, ha's, or anything just basics, so if you guys could post some info that'd be cool !

I can respond to this having the Tein SS which are the Basics, just with the addition of the 16-way dampening adjustment. If I set that to setting 8 (middle setting) that's pretty much what the Basics will feel like since the Basics and SS both have the same spring rates and shock valving front and rear. They feel good, not too bouncy, they feel like stock with a little added bounce. But over all they feel good, very comfortable on the freeway, and tight on the curves and turns. I'm going to be upgrading the springs on mine soon here to 2kg stiffer at all 4 corners, so my SS will basically be the stiffness of the HA's but still have the valving of the SS, so I'll have to set the dampening real soft to equal the stiffer setting I have them at right now.

Anywho, i need to start making phone calls for prices on a set of Koni Yellow shocks. I'm willing to bet Impex is gonna be the best bet. I haven't looked into how hard it is to install them which i'm probably sure i can't do myself.

Does Neuspeed make any other front strut bar other than the one that's offered in the polished or black finish?

For the Konis check prices at Inline Four ( www.inlinefour.com ) as I know they are fairly competative on the prices of them. Impex might have a better price though, just shop around. :cool:

As for Neuspeed bars, they DO make a DC2 ITR style bar as well, but that one you gotta drill out a pair of holes on the inside side of the strut tower tops, as it doesn't mount to the normal bolts that hold the struts to the car like the bar I have does. I think that bar is also more expensive than the bar I have.

One little thing to point out about the Tein kits for Hondas is that if anyone is serious about autox or roadrace, the Teins should be your last choice due to the spring rates.

They absolutely suck for anything other than the steet.

One little thing to point out about the Tein kits for Hondas is that if anyone is serious about autox or roadrace, the Teins should be your last choice due to the spring rates.

They absolutely suck for anything other than the steet.

Again incorrect. That is just not true, I don't get why you insist on otherwise. It may apply to the Tein Basic kit, the SS and the Type Flex, but that's it! You want to tell me that the RS/A, HT and N1 kits are crap? They have stiffer spring rates than I have ever seen offered for any car, and any other suspension. I mean look at the Tein HT, that kit uses a 1200+ lbs/ft front spring rates and 448lbs. rear rates, or 20f and 8r KG respectively. I have the Tein SS, and have on order (to be installed later this week) +2kg upgrade springs for them. I'm at 448f / 224r lbs/ft (or 8/4 kg respectively) as they come from Tein, and after the spring swap, I'll be at 559f / 336r or 10/6 kgs. I've seen the rates for other full coilover kits, and they don't even come close to the rates that Tein offers. Even Tein's street application coilovers have higher spring rates than companies such as A'PEXi, JIC and H&R.

Again incorrect. That is just not true, I don't get why you insist on otherwise. It may apply to the Tein Basic kit, the SS and the Type Flex, but that's it! You want to tell me that the RS/A, HT and N1 kits are crap? They have stiffer spring rates than I have ever seen offered for any car, and any other suspension. I mean look at the Tein HT, that kit uses a 1200+ lbs/ft front spring rates and 448lbs. rear rates, or 20f and 8r KG respectively. I have the Tein SS, and have on order (to be installed later this week) +2kg upgrade springs for them. I'm at 448f / 224r lbs/ft (or 8/4 kg respectively) as they come from Tein, and after the spring swap, I'll be at 559f / 336r or 10/6 kgs. I've seen the rates for other full coilover kits, and they don't even come close to the rates that Tein offers. Even Tein's street application coilovers have higher spring rates than companies such as A'PEXi, JIC and H&R.
No one that autoxs seriously or road races would ever build a suspension on a FWD car where the spring rates are

(8/448 F) (4/224 R)
14/783F 10/559R
20/1119F 8/448R

Again the dampers may be top notch but the rates are totally front biased, these cars push and understeer badly enough.
It's not about how high the rates are, it's about how the car responds when you drive it, you choose rates that will help the car respond, and to make it more neutral. In the case of autox and road race you dont want a car that pushes or has predominant understeer.

That is exactly what these rates will promote, on someones car like most on here that has an average factory alignment on mediocre street tires.

I can promise you any idiot that installs a kit running 783lbs/inch rates up front on a civic or teg on the street will be sorry.

No one that autoxs seriously or road races would ever build a suspension on a FWD car where the spring rates are

(8/448 F) (4/224 R)
14/783F 10/559R
20/1119F 8/448R

Again the dampers may be top notch but the rates are totally front biased, these cars push and understeer badly enough.
It's not about how high the rates are, it's about how the car responds when you drive it, you choose rates that will help the car respond, and to make it more neutral. In the case of autox and road race you dont want a car that pushes or has predominant understeer.

That is exactly what these rates will promote, on someones car like most on here that has an average factory alignment on mediocre street tires.

I can promise you any idiot that installs a kit running 783lbs/inch rates up front on a civic or teg on the street will be sorry.

If the Teins are all one has, then yes that may hold true. But start adding swaybars and things will change, and quite dramatically as you should know. I run a 22mm ITR rear swaybar on my Civic, and understeer is quite minimal. It'll oversteer as easily as it'll understeer, and when running slalom sections at Solo2 events I run in, the rear will have tendancy to get rather loose, as can be the case in curves as well. But it allows me to hug the road quite well too. I have NO front swaybar of any kind, and people warned me about getting the ITR bar while having no front bar. The fact of the matter is my Si rear bar I had on previous to the ITR rear bar gave me more snap oversteer problems than my ITR bar has given me, and it's given me 0 problems compared to the several close calls the Si bar caused. My driving style hasn't changed, nor has my suspension setup between the change of bars. The ITR bar plain and simle gives my car a much better and more neutral biased balance of handling. The typical setups you see big true ciolover companies selling, have a higher front rate to compensate for engine weight and drive configureation. But once alther components are added, that bias of the front quickly changes to much more rear bias than before. It'll always be more at the front unless you physically have stiffer rear springs, or have a large enough rear swaybar, but who in their right mind even gets coilovers like Tein, road races or auto-X'es and never adds another single component to the suspension? I rest my case.

Thats fine, but when some nerd at Tein is sitting on his computer, figuring out whats best for a car's chassis on a cad program vs. actually using R&D to test rates on the actual chassis of the physical car they are making products for, I really don't have much to say.

Those rates I mentioned are horrible for the Civic/Integra chassis for autox or road race

come on, having rates of over 600 on that chassis up front is ridiculous for a daily driver, or not even that having a setup like the 448/224.

Springs do the load bearing, if your center of gravity is low enough you can start doing calculations on how much load is going to be transferred from the actual weight of your car corner to corner.

Your average Civic and Integra has about 750lbs at each front corner
with about 500 at each rear corner.

Anyone want to do the math?
Your defending your setup I understand, but you are not understanding the physics of why having rates such as those mentioned, are useless.

You should not have to be using sway bars to correct problems with your suspensions spring rates, thats a band aid.

I'm using them to reduce body roll, not to compensate for my spring rates. I actually wasn't aware of just how much the ITR bar would stiffen up the rear as far as spring rates till I installed it on. I just wanted as much beef as I could get to counter body roll. Actually I find out Mugen makes a 26mm rear bar. :p

But anywho, your points are well taken in your last post. I've talked with Tein technical reps personally, and they told me the systems they sell or market widely in the US (that being the Basics, SS, Type Flex and S. Tech springs) were actually R&D'ed physically in the streets of LA and So. Cali in general, where many of them will be sold, and also since we have about the worst roads around in terms of surface condition considering potholes and such. I do believe that they are marketing or designing them rather with a street driver in mind rather than a racer, but we also aren't offered in the US some of their more hardcore systems and setups either. Tein dominates over 60% of the entire suspension market in Japan, in the US most don't even know who Tein is what they do, let alone having heard of them. It's a completely different market here in the states than it is in Japan, and they design accordly to that, and slo to the "best interest" of the company. Kinda a standard business relations ploy rather than sheer product intention of what we think it should be (bad phrasing of that, so please pardon me on that). But Tein isn't a bad option considering you can custom order them to your exact specifications as far as spring rates and shock valving are concerned. I could have gotten my SS with increased spring rates and valving on the rears if I had chosen to do so. I can't speak for other companies if they provide that service, but I'd imagine they would, although I''ve never looked into others beside Tein on that aspect of things.

For the record, I know of a guy (http://www.hadamotorsport.com/new/OTCRecap.htm) that has been to championships in the Solo 2 nats @ Topeka as well as national open track challenges riding on Tein RA coilovers (given they have 10k front and 14k rear spring rates). ;) So to say serious auto-X'ers or road racers wouldn't use them is a rather gross assumption. Check up on that before spating out the mathmatical facts. Those are correct (I'll take your word on them at least) but that isn't going to mean much or get you far when saying serious people wouldn't use them when in fact that's not at all correct. It's all about HOW they use them, not IF to use them.

For the record, I know of a guy (http://www.hadamotorsport.com/new/OTCRecap.htm) that has been to championships in the Solo 2 nats @ Topeka as well as national open track challenges riding on Tein RA coilovers (given they have 10k front and 14k rear spring rates). ;) So to say serious auto-X'ers or road racers wouldn't use them is a rather gross assumption. Check up on that before spating out the mathmatical facts. Those are correct (I'll take your word on them at least) but that isn't going to mean much or get you far when saying serious people wouldn't use them when in fact that's not at all correct. It's all about HOW they use them, not IF to use them.

Again my point is not to discredit Tein, only their mass-market US spring rates.

Looks like your buddy is using higher rates in there rear, which again proves my point. I assume he custom ordered those?

I guess my issue is we are on a suspension forum for Hondas and Acura where the people posting don't have trailered vehicles.

Recommending suspension kits like some of the Teins for people making their first coil upgrade is not right, with the exception of the basics maybe.

Your mass market, Koni/bilstein/H&R coil kits don't use rates over 250-300lbs. Mot the mention their race springs don't run over 250.

I am not going to recommend, someone going from a stock suspension to go with something like 448/224 (SS)

I would personally see them go with a race spring, koni yellow to start if they want to get agressive.

Has anyone had any expeirence with Tein Basics? If so how do they feel and could you try to post a little review or something ? I'm debating on buying these for the price obviously, and my friend has OBX true coilovers on his EK hatch and its amazing how much of a difference it made so obviously I want to do it heh, But ya.. i'm not asking about flex's, ha's, or anything just basics, so if you guys could post some info that'd be cool !

i'm interested in the tein basic's as well. does anyone have any experience/reviews/opionions about them? thanks.

ZEAL :iceslolan

if you want air check out canovers . theyre awsome and you can race ith them. track cars in japan use them. kiyoshis.com is the us importer for them

ZEAL :iceslolan

Ehh, I'm not all too impressed with them, they are more $$$ for less features anyways. ;) Also most drifters (implying to your name) use Tein HE's, well ones that have Silvias and RX7's. I live in the middle of drift country here in So. Cali, attended D1 GP and the RS*R drift event, I saw and heard what most use. Yeah some do use Zeal, but most don't. JIC is another popular one.

well, whats the warranty on teins?!? I Think that koni, kyb, tokiko, etc.... offer lifetime warranty, i would expect that teins offers at least the same warranty..

im looking to upgrade my suspension and im considering the teins and koni yellow shocks..

i got H&R springs on stock shocks and the ride on any bumps is just 'shitty'..i was considering the koni yellows for $500 shipped (i cant seem to find then any cheaper) and i like the lifetime warranty. Teins i dunno but i heard that they only offer just 1 year :eek: those of you who has it, what warranty were you offered?

well, whats the warranty on teins?!? I Think that koni, kyb, tokiko, etc.... offer lifetime warranty, i would expect that teins offers at least the same warranty..

im looking to upgrade my suspension and im considering the teins and koni yellow shocks..

i got H&R springs on stock shocks and the ride on any bumps is just 'shitty'..i was considering the koni yellows for $500 shipped (i cant seem to find then any cheaper) and i like the lifetime warranty. Teins i dunno but i heard that they only offer just 1 year :eek: those of you who has it, what warranty were you offered?

Tein S. Tech springs come with a lifetime warranty. I haven't seen warranty info on the coilover systems and I'm almost assuming they don't have one since they are specifically race oriented and mean "for off road use only" thus a warranty wouldn't apply if they know they can and will be used where they aren't technically supposed to be. I DO know however that it costs $100 per shock to get them revalved or repaired if one is the blow out.

that also applies to koni, tokiko, kyb and they do offer life time warranty..

im tellign you what a dissapointment.. i was ready to shell out $$ for tein's SS but with only one year warranty im not goign to risk my $ like that.. perhaps someone thats hardcore into suspension or racing might think differently but for daily driving, sporadic races, fun driving and lots of millage just oen year of warranty doesnt cut it for me..

ill look into koni yellows or tokiko illuminas

that also applies to koni, tokiko, kyb and they do offer life time warranty..

im tellign you what a dissapointment.. i was ready to shell out $$ for tein's SS but with only one year warranty im not goign to risk my $ like that.. perhaps someone thats hardcore into suspension or racing might think differently but for daily driving, sporadic races, fun driving and lots of millage just oen year of warranty doesnt cut it for me..

ill look into koni yellows or tokiko illuminas

Umm, re-read my above post, no where did I say that the SS have a one year warranty let alone one of any kind. READ what i wrote carefully and you'll understand why. Basically if you have the $$$ to spend on them, then you are hardcore into driving. You don't just get them if all you plan on doing is lowering your car and want a comfortable ride, You get them because you intend to use them for what they were originally designed for, a suspension you can tune at the track, then return to normal on your drive back home. I'm almost certain none of the other major JDM true coilover manufactures offer warranties on their systems either as they know they will be abused and used at the track, and that would breech a normal warranty anyways.

The warranties that Koni and KYB offer, that's fine for a street mishap, but better read the fine print and make sure they are covered should you happen to be RACING or at a track with them when they break. And you can't fool these guys into "oh, I broke it on the street" when you broke it racing, they have ways to determine exactly how it broke, and know what forces it takes to break them in each situation. Then again, if you're worried you might break them, maybe you WILL need a hardcore suspension setup that will hold up to the abuse you throw at it.

If you are looking for a non threaded body shock that will work with any spring and have, ANY SPRING, even if the rates are 1000lbs.

Koni sport are "BUILT FOR A LIFETIME"

And on top of that Koni's support is much better.

If you race and want high spring rates, or something like CG sleeves with custom rates the Konis are the only choice.

If you are looking for a non threaded body shock that will work with any spring and have, ANY SPRING, even if the rates are 1000lbs.

Koni sport are "BUILT FOR A LIFETIME"

And on top of that Koni's support is much better.

If you race and want high spring rates, or something like CG sleeves with custom rates the Konis are the only choice.

I agree with that 110%. Koni Yellows are the only mass marketed shock on the block that you can do all the above with, with little to no fear of it dying out on you.