LS/Vtec Really that good?

I have a 1994 Integra LS w/ 110k miles on it. Its all stock. I'm at the point where i have some money where i can either modify my Integra or sell it and do something else. Many people have told me to either put a B16 or B18c(GSR) head on my LS and turn it into an LS/vtec. I know it will run me around $1000 because i would have to take it to a shop. Is this really going to make the car a lot faster? If i did the ls/vtec i would upgrade the pistons and cams, but i dont know if im really going to get that much horse power out of the car. Would i be better off upgrading another car? It seems like do this or buy a 95 Z28, but i dont think i really want to pay for the insurance/gas on the Z28. I'm quite torn. if anyone could assist me please respond or feel free to AIM me at Billab2ong.

Thanks.

ls/vtec's are pretty fucking powerfull.... my friend has a ls bottom and gsr head in his 95 civic coupe with intake and exhuast and it fucking pull's hard.... blow's alot of people away... he hasnt lost yet and if your gonna have i/h/e and internal work done.... dude you'll blow z28's out of the water man.... no problemo

Beating Z28's is pretty big claim for an I/H/E LS VTEC. Fast for a Civic doesnt mean fast, It means faster than stock(ricer context).

Indeed a LS/VTEC makes a powerful motor , but i doubt it would blow away a z28 camaro. :disappoin

keep the teg, go for LSVTEC, high cr pistons, CAI, 4-1 header, exhaust, some nice cams, and your car will be VERY MUCH faster than it is right now.

ls/vtec's are pretty fucking powerfull.... my friend has a ls bottom and gsr head in his 95 civic coupe with intake and exhuast and it fucking pull's hard.... blow's alot of people away... he hasnt lost yet and if your gonna have i/h/e and internal work done.... dude you'll blow z28's out of the water man.... no problemo

It'll be quicker, but he won't be anywhere near blowing Z28's out of the water.

Putting a vtec head on a LS or CRV block doen't make it some turbo, supercharged v8 killing monster. Fully built you should be happy to gain 60-70hp, if that, over the original blocks rated power. And no, it isn't just going to blow a Camaro out of the water, maybe in a gutted rex, but definitely not in an Integra.

ok i have to jump in here. sad to say i just sold my car. need something new to work on. anyways i had an lsvtec in my hatch. i destroyed a new mustang gt with flowmasters and intake. i mean by third i was about 2 cars ahead. now i know the z28 is faster then the gt but i dont think he should have any problem keeping up with a z28 with an lsvtec. but i will warn you, dont expect your car to be as fast as mine or any other swapped civic. the integras are considerably heavier which makes a big difference when it comes to NA motors. they dont have all the extra power to make up for added weight. for instance a friend of mine got the same engine setup i did in his 90 rs teg but his had slightly higher compression with a b16 head and mine had a gsr head with ONLY the primary butterfly open. we raced and i took him by three cars. i would suggest for you to save up, and go turbo if you want to screw with v8's.

i'd rather drive a 17 second civic/teg then a 10 second z28. no matter how fast the z28 is, it's still a big hunk of domestic machine. stick to the teg, you'll definitely like what you get out of an ls/vtec

i'd rather drive a 17 second civic/teg then a 10 second z28. no matter how fast the z28 is, it's still a big hunk of domestic machine. stick to the teg, you'll definitely like what you get out of an ls/vtec
Fuck that, my mom has a 93 v8 Camaro, and I'd take that thing anyday, way fun to drive.

An LS block and gsr head would still make less horsepower than the gsr complete motor right?

An LS block and gsr head would still make less horsepower than the gsr complete motor right?
No. It would nake more.

How come? Ive never really understood why LS/Vtec is so powerful.

How come? Ive never really understood why LS/Vtec is so powerful.

doesnt it have to do with the compression?

cuz the LS block is 1834cc vs. 1797cc displacement of GSR

and isnt the stroke like 2mm longer for the B18B, I heard that longer stroke usually = more TQ, so then there is another reason

it's just because of the higher rpm's. normally, the ls redlines at bout 6800 i believe. with the b16 head on there, it redlines at 8200. the power increase basically comes from an increase in rpms and vtec. and to whoever said that the z28 is a big piece of domestic machine, more power to you. i would never wanna drive a z28. so with ls/vtec you would probably be makin about 200 at the crank. throw a turbo on there at about 9 psi, you should be cookin. all this in a crx, and you could beat z28's no problem.

it's just because of the higher rpm's. normally, the ls redlines at bout 6800 i believe. with the b16 head on there, it redlines at 8200. the power increase basically comes from an increase in rpms and vtec. and to whoever said that the z28 is a big piece of domestic machine, more power to you. i would never wanna drive a z28. so with ls/vtec you would probably be makin about 200 at the crank. throw a turbo on there at about 9 psi, you should be cookin. all this in a crx, and you could beat z28's no problem.


the heads redline is 8200, but you still shouldnt rev the B18 to 8200. maybe 7500 on occasion buit im sure honda put a 6800 redline in the teg for a rreaosn, the B18b cant handle revving like the B18C can

I read that a B16A(99-00 Civic Si) Head creates more flow than a GSR head....i was wondering what anyone thought on this?

Also how much is it going to run me to take my car to a shop and having them put in one of the 2 heads listed above. New pistons(i was thinking ITR) and new cams... Pretty much im basing wheather i buy my 4 cyl. killer camaro or upgrade my integra on price to effiecency/horse power.

Thanks for all the replies.

the heads redline is 8200, but you still shouldnt rev the B18 to 8200. maybe 7500 on occasion buit im sure honda put a 6800 redline in the teg for a rreaosn, the B18b cant handle revving like the B18C can

Honda put a low rev limit on the B18B because the head and cams combinaton doesn't make power over around 6 grand. Stock B18B shortblock will be fine spinning to 8200.

Both heads flow roughly the same, and the ITR and the B16 are of the same casting, difference being that the ITR has better cams and duals prings on both intake and exhaust, whereas the B16 has dual on the intake side, and the ITR is ported a little better. IMO, it is a waste to use the ITR head, just get the cheaper B16 head, especially if you are going to replace the cams. Also the intake manifolds and throttle body on the ITR are better so that adds to the equation. Your average shop can not put the vtec head onto a non vtec block because of the oil lines and doweling that needs to be done, that is a precedure that needs to be done by someone that has experiance.

Honda put a low rev limit on the B18B because the head and cams combinaton doesn't make power over around 6 grand. Stock B18B shortblock will be fine spinning to 8200.
well, this is the first time ive ever heard of that as the reason, ive always heard that it is the poor r/s ratio (which i know isnt much worse than the B18C's), but also lack of oil quirters.

and to the guy who posted this, the oil lines/fittings, etc will ruin about 100 bucks, the head will run you id say no more than 100 bucks to get ready to put on, I mean the tapping and pluggin of the old hole wil be simple, even if youve never used a tap before, just practice on scrap a few times if you feel the need, and hopefully you can find someone to just enlarge 2 holes a buit for 100 or less. depends on how much you wanna do yourself actually. Id do as much as you could so you learn whats going on and save some cash at the same time.

Your average shop can not put the vtec head onto a non vtec block because of the oil lines and doweling that needs to be done, that is a precedure that needs to be done by someone that has experiance.

it's not that hard of a job, anyone with a bit of machine experience can do it. the cheapest way, take it to the machine shop at your local junior college, show them exactly what needs to be done, and have the teacher do it as a demonstration (my buddy did this for his ls/vtec conversion) then all you have to do is the oil lines.

I hate hearing that, everyone always says how dificult it is to do but alls it is is heating a plug on the head, screwing it out, attatch oil line to fitting, screw it im. then tap old oil supply hole and plug it, then resize 2 dowel holes. what is so hard?

:werd:
cake sauce

I said it because there have been a LOT of people who have fucked it up because they didn't know what they were doing, didn't build it up right, and then wound up on forums like this saying that the frankensteins suck, and are not reliable. So fuck it, if more people that don't know what they are doing have someone who does, do it right, then maybe people will shut the hell up.

:iagree: I'm saying it is an easy job for someone with mechanical experience, but it would be really easy to fuck up if you are some kid who had trouble putting on a CAI or something. I guess it's like anything, if you can look at it and go into DIYing it confidently then there shouldnt be a problem, but if you doubt your abilities to do it have someone else doe it.

well ok, that makes more sense but you first said that the average shop couldnt even do it.

well ok, that makes more sense but you first said that the average shop couldnt even do it.
There is a shop here, they do all kinds of work, and they do it good, but if I dropped a pr3-3 head off and a B18B1 block and said put it together, the result would probably be less than spectacular. Point is, living in the Honda world, people think that most shops know what we know, and they don't. Specialty shops do, but they aren't in every town USA.

well, maybe they culdnt do it if you told them put it togther, but if you know what needs to be done, you can tell them "enlarge these 2 holes to this size" and they better be able to do it or they shouldnt ever be working in a shop

:banhim: this is for jcrx, if you like your chevys take'em but dont post on honda pages :shakehead

throw a turbo on there at about 9 psi, you should be cookin. all this in a crx, and you could beat z28's no problem.

The fastest street legal Civics in the world have either a turbocharged ls/vtec or gs-r setup. Build the internals, crank the boost, and you'll be able to break 500whp with some tuning. 585hp is the highest I've ever seen on a Civic.

so it will be better if i do a ls_vtec swap than a b16a swap. if i want more power right?

:banhim: this is for jcrx, if you like your chevys take'em but dont post on honda pages :shakehead
Hahahaha, eat my ass you ignorant moron. Don't get all butthurt because your econo car isn't as fast as the fast and the furious makes it look. And if you can't appreciate a REAL sports car because it is a domestic, you are NOT an automotive enthusiast. Why don't you ban yourself, by dining on a 9mm.

I guess someone is quite tempremental all i said was if you like chevys fine but why would you come on here to talk about them to a bunch of pple who could honestly care less how fast your gas guzzling ugly hunk of metal is, and that f&f quote was very origional keep those up i bet no one who drives a honda or acura has herd that b/4. So take your american car and drive it up your ass, or at least down the street to get some chips. :grinyes:

I guess someone is quite tempremental all i said was if you like chevys fine but why would you come on here to talk about them to a bunch of pple who could honestly care less how fast your gas guzzling ugly hunk of metal is, and that f&f quote was very origional keep those up i bet no one who drives a honda or acura has herd that b/4. So take your american car and drive it up your ass, or at least down the street to get some chips. :grinyes:
Let the ignorance reign, wow. If I may direct your attention to the avatar, that is my American muscle, EH2 biatch, made in ohio, by Americans, all work done by this American, now could you please proceed to bashing your dick in a door or something, before you comtaminate the rest of the world with your idiocy. And just to clarifiy and expound your idiocy that isn't a Bi and Curious "quote", as you put it, it would be a reference. So if you're going to try to insult someone, you need to make sure you come with more than your dick in the wind, and a jr. high intelligence.

http://www.hondaswap.com/gallery/images/s3e3e7745dd9d4.jpg

so it will be better if i do a ls_vtec swap than a b16a swap. if i want more power right?
Yes. Pick you up a Zex kit an your car will be pretty respectable. :smokin:

Yes. Pick you up a Zex kit an your car will be pretty respectable. :smokin:
Yes an LS/Vtec will have more torque AND horsepower than a B16A. I just so happen to have a full zex kit for sale too... :naughty: $275...

i would buy it but i would have to get the swap done first

No way an ls/vtec teg could take out a z28. Sell the teg and get a camaro :naughty:

No way an ls/vtec teg could take out a z28. Sell the teg and get a camaro :naughty:
Sure ti could, if it was built right.

how fast is the Z28 were talking about here stock?
and wouldnt

B18 block
B16 head
cams
high cr pistons
and all the mods required to run those things be damn fast, a 12.5:1 cr all motor CRVTEC pushes a CRX into the 11's and from the pics I saw he had the door panels, dash in there so im just gonna guess it is full interior. but a lesser built LSVTEC in a CRX should easily be able to be in the 12's low 13's I think, especially if you got 9 lbs of boost on it or your spraying a bit.

they were talking about an ls/vtec integra with i/h/e vs stock 95 z28

oh alright, Ive read this whole thing as its grown but I forgot most of the first posts and didnt want to read all over agian, and I know I had read something like throw 9 pounds of boost on it and something about a zex kit.

An LT1 Z28 should run high 13s low 14s... basically the same as a stock 99+ GT :dunno:

Now, how much would a Ls/Vtec set up end up costing you? Roughly what would the hp/trq estimates be? This setup responds well to boost?
Not trying to hijack or anything :)

An LT1 Z28 should run high 13s low 14s... basically the same as a stock 99+ GT :dunno:
AAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

ahem, sorry... stock '99 GT's run high 14's-low 15's, period.

AAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

ahem, sorry... stock '99 GT's run high 14's-low 15's, period.
Are you sure about that? Hmm Might want to look around since Ive ran 14.4 in my auto and my friend with his 03 GT 5spd ran a 14.2 stock, he should now be in the 13s since his gears + exhaust. 96-98s run high 14s, low 15s. I dont know where youre getting this information from unless the drivers in your area suck ass :dunno:

An LT1 Z28 should run high 13s low 14s... basically the same as a stock 99+ GT :dunno:



Now, how much would a Ls/Vtec set up end up costing you? Roughly what would the hp/trq estimates be? This setup responds well to boost?
Not trying to hijack or anything :)

Id say if you already have the block you oculd do it for under a grand.

and I saw a boosted LSVTEC daily driven hatch run a 11.7 at the track one day. he had his slicks on but it still had all seats and the rest of his interior, no spare/jack though but thats not gonnahelp all that much anyways.

and on the hondatda website there is a LSVTEC with 29#'s of boost and gets 647HP.

Id say if you already have the block you oculd do it for under a grand.

and I saw a boosted LSVTEC daily driven hatch run a 11.7 at the track one day. he had his slicks on but it still had all seats and the rest of his interior, no spare/jack though but thats not gonnahelp all that much anyways.

and on the hondatda website there is a LSVTEC with 29#'s of boost and gets 647HP.


:eek: Nice :bigthumb:

The reason why I asked is cause im looking for a daily driver with some balls and cant decide what to get (LT1, 5.0 or an EG Civic). Not to mention I have this friend with an LS Teg and I could pass the information right along. :)

get a civic and boost a b20. cheap and fast. engine comes stock with 8.8:1 cr, so boost isnt a problem, dont overdue it though cuz it has weaker sleeves than the LS, but with the lower compression "I'd" think that it would handle 10 psi(i put the I'd part in quotes cuz I am not sure and you hsould aske around before doing it which you probably would anyways if you went that route). and the engine couldnt be older than when the CRV came out, I think it was 1997, maybe 96. so shouldnt need a rebuild. so 800 for block, peice together a turbo kit for like 2500 bucks, flywheel/clutch/tranny/axles/mounts/ecu/harness and there you go.

Are you sure about that? Hmm Might want to look around since Ive ran 14.4 in my auto and my friend with his 03 GT 5spd ran a 14.2 stock, he should now be in the 13s since his gears + exhaust. 96-98s run high 14s, low 15s. I dont know where youre getting this information from unless the drivers in your area suck ass :dunno:
They must have... I watched three stock GT's run 14.8-15.2 all night long. My bad if I was wrong, but still my point was GT's aren't as fast as Z28's.

ok i will say this one last time. because a car has a v8, that does not make it fast. first of all im so sick and tired of hearing about how good domestics are and how fast they are and all this crap. IF A CAR COMPANY NEEDS A 4.6LITER V8 TO PUT OUT 230HP, THEY SUCK!!! thats strictly my opinion but im sure many would agree. why cant any money be invested into some sort of tuning? something to get out of that stupid american philosophy of bigger is better. why does honda get 240hp out of a 2L 4 cylinder and still sell it at comparable prices if not cheaper then a pos mustang? and show me a reasonably priced domestic that can handle well. and im talking about cars that were not tuned by another company like svt or rousch or whatever its called.

and why do people even compare these cars? one has an engine twice the size of the other. of course it can make more power thats just common sense. they shouldnt be in the same category. yet it still is repeated over and over. frankly i loved whipping on little queers with their big v8's who think that because they have flowmasters that they are the fastest person on the street. thats why i loved my lsvtec hatch and i sure miss it.

to me american cars are pieces of sh*t. ugly, cheaply made, unreliable, and untuned. its so sad that they have the technology to build the best cars in the world but they dont. complete morons

I cant stand it when people have that kind of view on American cars :disappoin .

Edman24, well it seems toyota needs a 4.7l v8 to put out 235 hp, Are you ragging on them too? Check out the 00-01 landcruiser...

Its not meant to be serious, although it is.... Just saying that hp isnt everything.

P.S. 320ft-lbs

Buzz1167
Jon N

IF A CAR COMPANY NEEDS A 4.6LITER V8 TO PUT OUT 230HP, THEY SUCK!!!
260hp.
Still pos's though..

Not trying to hi-jack but I feel this needs to be said...

edman24 , Please... Stop with the ignorance. Learn more about cars then youll know why some come out with lesser power than the other. One reason is because it keeps less stress on the engine rather than maxing out the car from the factory, thus making it more efficient. Also, these cars are built with the fact that most owners are going to change the part out anyways. Some opting for a power adder and such. Also another reason is because of insurance. Would YOU really want to insure a car with 500hp+ out of the factory? You also say that American cars dont handle well? Ill have to ask if youve ever driven one? If you havent and are just talking out of your ass then I would advice you to go test drive one. My Mustang handles exceptionally well from the factory and with a little help from the aftermarket, it would seriously put a hurting on cars built for handling and performing. And lets not forget that the little Ford Focus can outhandle many cars, which is reasonably priced.

why does honda get 240hp out of a 2L 4 cylinder and still sell it at comparable prices if not cheaper then a pos mustang?

Hmm, since alot of you like to magazine race, Ill resort to that to help my point. Lets take for example a Honda S2000 and a Mustang GT. Motortrend got 14.1 out of their GT, and Im willing to bet... since I dont keep up with Honda, that they got a 13.8-9 at the very least for the S2000. How much is an S2000? Not under $30k im sure. How cheap is a Mustang GT? $23k? Dont let me bring up the Mach 1 which is priced at $28k and can crush the S2000s 1/4 times, and the SVT(which is under FORD so its not another company :rolleyes: ) Cobra with its IRS suspension which does wonders for handling, and supercharged engine priced at around $33k with over 365rwhp to the rear wheels... meaning the factory rating of 390hp is underrated which again means... More hp for your $$$ and a low 12 second time slip.

If a reasonably priced car with good handling and power makes the Mustang a POS, then Im happy to know that I own a pos that can outrun many cars :)

Sorry for the long post :icon16:

for it's whole 60k mile lifespan

for it's whole 60k mile lifespan
I would like to tell you that many 4.6li cars have seen over 100k,even when being abused and still run great. The OHC engines are made to last :)

all i know i beat a older truck with a full race suspension with a 67 camaro 350 motor witha cam header and flowmasters i hhave a 97 hatch with a b18c with intake andi beat him by two cars at the most and like by a car several other times so i think its easily possible for the ls/vtec with ctr pistons and i/h/e with a good driver