Suspension Question for P11

I think I'm either getting the Eibach Pro-kits or the Tein S.Tech (soft) springs, which one do you think is a better ride and do you think I would need aftermarket shocks? If so, which shock would be best for a soft, daily driven, just cruising, no racing P11. I was thinking of either the Bilstein HD's or the Koni Yellow's, and are these shocks height adjustable also??? I heard the bilsteins are but not for sure. if so, i might just get the shocks alone and do like a .5-.75 in drop. I don't want it slammed just a little lower with stock-like ride quality. Thanx for any input.

I got my 00 G20 less than 10 months ago, and it rides fine with the stock suspension. I actually think they are pretty good compared to other new cars. I would ride on those for a little while since I am also doing normal driving (not racing), and after they are worn out, ill replace them with good ones. The stock are good so I dont know why you wanna replace them. Your deal. Peace :smoka:

I have a p11 and currently using Pro Kit. It gives the car a pretty good look and it rides ok with stock struts, but it bounce quite a bit when goes over bump, and something the car floats when braking downhill. A set of performance struts will solve that. For handling ( if you care ) is worst ( pro kit with stock struts ), it creat too much understeer, I think it is because the rear spring is too soft compared to the front.
By the way, how do you get Teins' part?:confused: I thought Zen motorsports went out of business. I want to buy the NA kit very bad. If you can tell me I will be very appreciated.:D

Hey, I'm new here and am soon to be aquiring a P10. What are the best coilovers for a P10? Oh yeah, Kenny-G, there's a place around here (Toronto) that sells Tein stuff, Performance Zone, and I think they might be able to order it in for you. Even better, it'll be cheaper because of our poor dollar. Lucky you. The address is:

Performance Zone
615 Davenport Road
Unit B3
Waterloo, Ontario
N2V 2G2

Phone - (519) 885-3394
Fax - (519) 885-3186

Oh yeah, on the Tein Japan site (www.tein.co.jp), the part number for the P11 NA coilovers was DSN72-M1SS2, and they retailed for 95,000 yen (about $750 American, which is pretty damn good).

I have used Eibach springs and Koni shocks on my p11 which lowered the car by 3".
If i was going to do it again...use adjustable shocks to give the ride you want.
I have found with the factory wheels(15") that its a pleasure to drive and really improved the handling and ride. But since then i have fitted 18"rims with 45 series rubber. It has given the car the look im after but has made it a bit bumpy on rough roads, but man she handles like a dream in corners instead of having your self hanging on to the steering wheel incase you fly out either side windows when cornering!!!
Cheers
Primera Man

Hey Cplessl thanks for your info. Toronto sounds a little to far for me. I think I will call the people in Vancouver BC and give them a try. AND JASON DOESN'T WANT US TO ASK HIM WHERE DID HE GET THE NA KIT.....
:mad:
I have just look around my magazines and I can't find anyone who make the coilover for P10, but I will keep looking and let you know if I find it.

Primera man, I think the Koni struts for P11 is not officially import to US, so did you just call those guys and have them to order it? How much did you pay? Did you get the Koni sport ( yellow )? I thought they are adjustable in damping.

Oosp sorry, I just figure you are not living in US.

Kenny G......Dont quote me on this as i had it done by the pro"s.
But was told that by lowering my car the 3" that the struts should be replaced along with the springs to improve the ride.
The koni's that where used where straight from the shelf i was told and that they are the best for what i wanted.
Cost was $1500.00 NEW ZEALAND

this place also, can get Tein stuff...www.genxco.com.
But as for lowering my car, I just don't wanna have to get springs and install them and then take it apart again when my stock shocks blow, I'd rather do it all at once and save the hassle. Bilstein's and Koni's are designed to last the life of the car, even with aftermarket springs. Now it's just matter of which shock is better suited for my needs (daily driven, stock-like, no racing). and If anyone has used Bilstein's before, do they have adjustable spring perches in the front and back? If so, I might just get the struts alone.

I have a '99 G20 with Intrax lowering springs. They lower the car approx. 1.75" front and back. To me, the car doesn't even look that lowered. The back almost has no gap and the front has a more noticeable gap..i guess thats because the front fenders are naturally higher than the rear ones. The springs are somewhat bouncy, though, with stock shocks. I plan on getting a coilover system soon. I was planning on getting Ground Control coilovers with GAB Super HP shocks, but if I could get a good price for the TEIN NA set, I'd much rather get that. The GAB Super HP shocks are between 600-800. These are good street shocks...4 way adjustable in the front, 8 way in the rear (i think..or maybe the other way around). I looked at that Genxco.com site for the Tein and it price the coilover for our car at $1050. Was I looking in the right place? I was quoted before at least $1500-2400. If it is around 1000, id get it. Anyone know what the drop range is on the Tein set? I know the Ground control set is up to 3". When you lower your car, its best to change the shocks so that your stock ones wont bottom out and it wont be so bouncy.

ni55andriven -

I know this doesnt have anything to do with the topic, but where did you find an intake for our car? I have a 2000 and I cant find any good air intakes to put inside. Does the Weapon-R intake fir 99 and 00 as well? Is there a web site? Thanks :smoka:

first... no a 99 intake will not work w/ a 00 or 01 model g20. the mass airflow sensors are different sizes.. sucks to be us newer primera owners huh?

now to get back on topic....

**tales of my suspension headache**

i have a 00 g20t and as soon as i got the car i wanted it lowered because i *hate* wheel gap w/ a passion!!

i didnt want to get eibach springs because i felt that a 1.2 inch drop was really just gonna look like 1 inch, which is basically un-noticable. so i went with intrax springs cause the drop was 1.75 inch which looks a lot more like 2 inches than 1 inch. also, i had read online that intrax had a "softer ride" than eibachs...

so i got the intrax springs put on my stock shocks cause i thought hey softer than eibachs, lower, and only $250 installed... perfect!!!

**WRONG!!!**

the car was lowered and looked way more aggressive, but as soon as i drove the thing.. OOOOH GOD!!!
every little bump (or micro-bump for that matter) in the road cause my car to begin bouncing. the car suspension would make these little bounces and wouldnt settle for about 20 feet or so.

at first the bouncing was small and i somehow convinced myself it was bearable, and that the springs just needed to "break in" cause they were a little stiff...

**WRONG!!!**

the problem just got worse and worse... the short quick bouncing became bigger and longer as 2 months went by....

i next decided to get some kyb struts put on because my stock shocks were now COMPLETELY DEAD!!!

this setup was definately an improvement but i was bottoming out in my wheel wells all the time when hitting big dips or bumps... perhaps this wouldnt have happened if the car rode a lil higher, ie.. on eibachs...

feeling the need to be able to "fine tune" my ride height AND suspension damping, i decided to scrap my whole setup and try something new...

Ground Control coilovers sitting on Koni struts, heaven at last!!!....

**ALMOST**

i heard that Ground Control was making "special orders" of P11 coilovers. basically this means they dont have them in stock but they can make them and have them shipped to you in less than a week... thier turn-around time has significantly improved...(kudos to them). the price tag is a little more than most of their other setups, being that they must custom make a new upper strut mount. ($450-499 us dollars is the going price)

meanwhile i ordered a P11 primera strut setup from Koni. the front assembly went very smoothly, however when i got to the rear a problem developed. with the new upper strut mounts that GC makes, there is not enough thread left on the shock to mount everything safely.. you can do it.. but BARELY!!

so the rear primera shocks were scrapped for a set of 95-98 maxima rears which have a longer threaded area. problem solved!!! the struts fit and allowed me to have choices in ride height adjustability...

what i've learned...

DO NOT LOWER YOUR CAR AND KEEP STOCK SHOCKS!!

and also...

i wasted a lot of cash when i should have just done it the right way the first time. dont spend $200 on springs and think you're gonna be happy, you wont!

i definately recommend going with this setup...

Ground Control Coilover kit for a P11 G20
Koni Front Primera P11 struts part # 8040-1127S
Koni Rear 95-98 Maxima struts part # 8040-1242S

the GC's go for $500 max and all the struts should run you about $450 to $500. total ballpark figure of $950 to $1000.

i also highly recommend spending the extra cash for a setup like this as opposed to $200 springs on $400-$500 shocks... the price difference is just not worth it.

lastly, in case anyone is wondering, yes the Koni's are adjustable but not while already mounted to the car. i set mine to the stiffest setting and then went two clicks back towards the soft side, mounted them.. loved it and never changed them.

happy lowering...

=)

just to add a few quick points....


by Ground Control "coilovers" i meant "ride height adjustable" coilovers.... not coilover in the simple sense that it is a "coil" spring which goes "over" a strut.

you can check them out at www.ground-control.com (http://www.ground-control.com)

and the Koni sport shocks at www.koni.com (http://www.koni.com)


hope i've helped...

I wanted the cheapest, lowest drop also, so I went with the Intrax springs and stock struts. Everything looked great, my 18's were tucking in the back and the fronts were about 1/4 in off the fender. When I started driving the car was bouncing all over the place (and still is). It's been bearable, but dangerous for the past few months, but I've recently bought some Koni adjustable's for the car. I was wondering if anybody out there has the torque specs for the suspension and/or know if there are any special tools needed for the job.

Hey guys,
I don't know what you guys find wrong with the eibach pro kit. I've had them for 8 months now on my P11 and they are sweet. The ride is a little stiffer but not harsh. Car corners really really well both with stock 15 and on 215/40/17s. Zig Zagging rocks with very little body roll. Stock shocks seems to be holding out well. Car looks agressive and 1.2 and 1.5 in the front is plenty drop.
I'll post pics so you can see...tomorrow

i just wanted something that gave you a little more of a drop... my rule is: wheel gap should be half the size of your tires sidewall height, heh

through my long quest though, i think i have found the difference between a lowering kit, and a performance suspension setup. which is what i find the koni/gc combo to be.

ni55andriven -

Yep, thats the correct price for the NA setup, its around 1000 or so. I've found someone that quoted me even cheaper than that but I forgot who, it was someone on the ClubSI.com boards I think, oops did I say that lol I've heard the GAB's are very stiff even on the lowest setting, but still very good shocks. The Tein's are 16 way externally adjustable, they have adjustable spring perches in 10mm increments, and they have a 30mm shorter case, basically if you lower your car around 30mm(approx.~1.2in) using Tein's struts, you still retain stock suspension travel! You can lower the Tein setup I think to 2.25in max. in the front. The only negative thing about Tein is that if your struts are blown or whatever, their is a long wait cause you have to send them back overseas to get it serviced.

So...from what I've researched for a fully adjustable suspension on a budget, I'd prolly get the Tein NA's or Koni Yellow's w/ Ground Controls' both for around 1000 or less. But since I don't plan on adjusting anything, I think I'm gonna get struts alone or struts with lowering springs? Like I said, If the Bilsteins have adjustable spring perches in the front and back, I think I'll just go for those alone w/o springs. But it seems that nobody's used these before, so I might just have to be the guinea pig :D

I don't see anything wrong with the Eibach Pro-kit's either, cause that was what I was looking to get, everyone that I've spoke to about these springs love them. Plus you got Eibach quality to back it up. The only downfall for some people is that it's not low enough for some, but the first rule of thumb I go with is never go lower than 2" for a performance set-up. Note when I say "performance". and the second is always install aftermarket springs with aftermarket struts b/c your stock struts will eventually blow, its the inevitable. Stock shocks are not made to handle stiffer aftermarket springs, they were made to handle your stock springs. So get aftermarket shocks or at least plan to get them. Cruising around with blown struts is VERY dangerous!!!

hey ni55andriven -

I forgot to mention that the Tein NA's only have adjustable perches versus the Ground Control's having a threaded collar. So the GC's will have A little more adjustability height-wise. But the Tein's still have more adjustability in the dampening department vs the Koni's internally adjustable dampers. So it all depends on what you want...your call :)

Sorry for my novel...but I got more if you wanna know :licker:

Notice how much I've learned since I've started this thread :D

So, is there any clear advantage between the adjustable perch for the Tein set and the threaded sleeve of the Ground control set besides the lower drop for the G.C.'s? Are the Tein's 8 way adj. for both front and rear? Does anyone know or have experienced riding on them? I would like to obtain a ride quality closest to stock with eliminating the wheel gap. Would either setup last longer than the other, considering normal driving conditions? I do plan on getting camber plates so my tires dont wear unevenly. Anyone know how much the Stillen ones are or are the other ones out there? Im tired of bouncing around on the streets and freeways!!

-For the person who asked me where I got my intake: I ordered it from NOPI (www.nopionline.com). I checked and there is no intake for the 2000 G20. Im pretty sure Stillen and Jim Wolf Technology have filters. I think it would only replace the box filter, though. Mine replaces the box filter and the rubber tubing that goes to the throttle body with a polished one. They have the same effect anyway.

I dont know much about the Tein setup, as I dont know anyone personally who owns that setup, so I havent gotten to test drive it. Out of all the setups I've gotten to drive (Intrax on stock struts, Eibach on stock struts, Intrax on KYB, Intrax on GAB, Eibach on GAB, Ground Control on Koni) I favor the GC/Koni setup as it's not harsh or bouncy, and has the most adjustability (adjustable damping and ride height).

I also personally like my GC/Koni combo because when i set my car up at shows, I can lower the springs even more to have the car appear even more aggressive. With the Tein suspension this would prove a lot more difficult. The ride height must be selected before you load the spring onto it and mount it.

I am not knocking the Tein suspension at all. I can only speak from my experience. I have heard though that the Tein suspension is very good though. But with the Tein you have a finite level of 10mm increments to raise or lower the car, while with the GC's the increments are what ever you little heart desires.

To get a proper suspension combo i would definately suggest the Tein or the GC/Koni setup i described earlier. If you want the most height options, or would like to vary them easily i would recommend the GC/Koni. If you dont want to have the option to easily vary the height, then go with the Tein as both the struts and springs were specifically designed in conjuction with each other to fit and work with the car.

lastly, about the camber plate issue... i dont have any, nor do i plan on getting them. i've had my gc's/koni's for about 8 months now riding on 225/40/18's and there is no un-even wear.... AT ALL. my rubber is toyo proxes and i've been pretty impressed w/ the fact that i drive so much and have very little wear at all.

time for lunch... =)

hmm let's see...the pros and cons of each setup...

TEIN NA:
PROS:

-16 way "externally" adjustable dampening front and back. You adjust it at the top of the shaft, exposed in the engine bay and in the trunk, i think.

-30mm shorter case for added suspension travel. Harder to bottom out.

-Progressive spring rates for better ride quality

-Adjustable Spring Perches can be a pro or con
*Pro: it'll adjust exactly where you would like it within its specs
Example: if you want it lowered it say exactly 1.8in or whatever just snap the C-ring into correct perch on all the struts and that's it versus threading, droping, and measuring until you get it right with the GC's.
*Con: Won't go as low as the GC's, not as precise.

CONS:

You gotta send it back overseas if it needs service.

No personal preference of spring rates. Just soft or Medium.

and the adjustable perches, like I said, it can be a pro and con.


KONI(YELLOWS)/GROUND CONTROL:
PROS:

-Service departments are here in the states

-Personal preference of spring rates offered by GC(Eibach ERS Springs)

-Threaded Collar for height-adjustablility, can be a pro and con
*pro: If you want your ideal height you can have it, slammed for show, raised for go. Easier to corner-weight.
*con: Hard to get right the first time, and it'll never be right all the time, say if you want it 1.8 all around it can be 1.7 one corner but can your eyes tell the difference, needs alignment everytime you drop or raise it.

CONS:

Less dampening adjustability, i think its like 4 way "internal" (KONI)versus 16 way "external"(TEIN-NA)

Stock casing, meaning less travel than the TEIN's would have at any given height

Linear spring from the GC's can give it a little harshness on the road.

So...anything else??? :frog:

p.s. I may be wrong on some of this info. So correct me if I am.

I was unaware that Ground Control coilovers could be fitted to Koni shocks. The shop I usually go to said that G.C. can only be fitted to GAB shocks. I also saw several G.C. lists and they, too, list GAB only. Did you send your Koni's up to G.C. to have the collar made? How much are the Koni's for the P11? So, was the G.C./Koni setup under $1K?

yes, they do indeed exist. you or someone at your local shop can even call ground control and verify. just tell them you need g20 adjustable coilovers for koni struts. besides myself i know 2 other people personally who are riding the same setup.

i had stated the prices earlier w/ the part numbers, but again.. the gc's go for $450 to $500 since they must also make you a new upper strut mount. the koni's will cost you $450 to $500 also, although i have seen places rape customers and charge up to $650 for a set of koni's.

i'm looking at my reciept and i paid $842 because i got the parts @ cost from my local shop.

if you're wondering... before markup the gc's are $420 (!!!) and the p11 front koni's were $108 each, while the 95-98 maxima rear koni's were $103 each.

one last thing... whoever told you that gc's only work with GAB's must be outta thier mind, lol. out of all the people i can think of that i know, who own gc's, not ONE has GAB's.

ground control will make the coilovers to fit either tokicko, gab, koni, or bilstiens... just call them... trust me! ;)

Ok, I think ill try out the Koni/G.C. set up..sounds great for around 900. So, the P11 front ones and the Maxima rear ones are Koni Sport? Are they both yellow?

yep.. they are both koni sports aka "yellow"

write this down lol...

Koni Front Struts for Nissan Primera P11, Koni part # 8040-1127S
Koni Rear Struts for 95-98 Maxima, Koni part # 8040-1242S
Ground Control Coilovers for 99-00 G20 for Koni struts

give that list exactly to your local shop and that's all you'll need.

let me know how it goes...

On my 99 G20 I am using Ground Control coilovers with Koni adjustable struts, Primera fronts(non-US version) and Maxima rears with no modification necessary. It rides better than the lowering spring set-up I had before.

Originally posted by Kenny-G
Hey Cplessl thanks for your info. Toronto sounds a little to far for me. I think I will call the people in Vancouver BC and give them a try. AND JASON DOESN'T WANT US TO ASK HIM WHERE DID HE GET THE NA KIT..... :mad:


Me? I got my TIEN NA from a company in Vancouver, BC called AJ Racing. www.aj-racing.com.

That should make you happy. :P

hey jason... as you're one of the few who have the Tein kit.. what can you tell us about it?

how's the ride?
quality?
any tips on setup?
what settings do you have? height.. damping.. etc
would you recommend different settings after riding yours?
any things you dont like?
any install problems?

i for one am always curious to hear about opinions on all available products, especially those which i havent tested myself.. :)

thanks...

Originally posted by b-b00gie
hey jason... as you're one of the few who have the Tein kit.. what can you tell us about it?

Lots. OK here we go.

how's the ride?

It's pretty good. A but harder than stock but you can tune it to suit you tastes with the adjustible shocks. Anywhere from slightly bouncy (soft) to kidney pounding (hard).

quality?

Excellent. I ordered Intrax springs for my old Escort GT and they were just chucked in a box. The TEIN was well packaged and came with excellent (in Japanese) instructions. Everything looked in order. Check out http://www.g20.net/mod_sus_tein_na.html for pics and details.

any tips on setup? what settings do you have? height.. damping.. etc

I've set it on the lowest height setting and it doesn't look slammed but it looks sporty low. The rear wheels are just barely tucked into the rear fender and the front I can maybe stick two finger height between the top of the wheel and the bottom of the fender. I believe my shocks are set, from softest 6 clicks front and 4 clicks rear. Any higher and it gets too stiff for daily driving.

I also have the rear top strut mounts from www.motivational.com. These make a difference as the rear had a tendancy to 'hop' over speed bumps. With the motivational strut tops it's noticably smother. These strut tops add an extra 1/2" of suspension travel.

would you recommend different settings after riding yours?

Yes. I'm thinking of raising up to the second last height setting. This should give me an extra 1/4" of travel front and rear.

When I raise it I'll also look at cuting the bumpstops in half. This should add some suspension travel as well. Only problem is the dust boot is integrated into the bumpstop. I have some ideas about this too.

The new motivational strut tops are squeeking like a rally car. It's cool sounding but not on a car like the G20. I'll be checking this out when I raise the suspension and cut the bumpstops.

When I do all this I'll be taking a sheit load of pics and updating g20.net with it. If the weather's nice I might do it next week.

any things you dont like?

Terminal understeer under tight hairpin turns. I think this has to do with a lack of front suspension travel. See above.

any install problems?

None.

thanks for the input.. someone @ my local shop was looking to get them, but was debating on the tein or the koni/gc setup i have... i want him to get the tein lol.. just so i can experience it first hand. sounds like it's pretty much the same type of ride i have...

i tried that Motivational site... it was down =(

I wanted a Tein kit for my P10 . . . I ordered them once, can't remember who from, but after they didn't arrive two weeks later, I called back and the told me that they didn't exist??? I couldn't understand (especially after they took my order already), but scrapped the idea . . . Are they available for the P10? G-Forces??

I's like to have Tein, if I can find them. It's got something to do with the road less travelled.

Anyhow, I now have GC's with KYB AGX's. I just received my setup about two weeks ago. Nothing is installed yet.

I'm surprised that no-one here seems to mention GC/AGX as a preferred setup. The AGX's allow for adjustment while on the car, without difficulty. Can the same be said for the Koni Yellow struts?

Tell me something good . . .

Stevie B
P10:sun:

i havent seen a listing on the Tein site for a P10, so i dont think so.

also, there may be someone out there using gc/kyb but everyone here was speaking of P11 setups.. =)

gotcha . . .

the suspensions are that different? front or rear?

Stevie B
P10:sun:

not sure, never looked into the p10 much... but they are different

Fronts are exactly the same. Rear's are totally different.

As far as P10 and P11 suspensions go, the only thing interchangable is the front suspension. and TEIN-wise, the only thing offered for a P10 are the S-Tech springs in soft or medium grade. Another thing I've notice about TEIN is that they don't offer the Type-NR setup anymore only the Type-NA setup for a P11. Prolly not worth getting a non-adjustable damper(NR) when the adjustable ones(NA) are only a few hundred more. I'm guessing demand is the issue here.

i_rebel - let us know how your setup turns out, in terms of ride quality, handling, likes/dislikes, the whole nine yards if possible :D I'm kinda wondering how the front AGX's would do if they were installed on a P11 instead of a P10 like yours, I think I might try it out, since they do fit and I can get them for pretty cheap. Also part numbers on other front shocks (bilstein, koni) for a P10 are exactly the same for a P11, so I figure the valving in the front is exactly the same no matter what car P10 or P11. I don't know...anyways...take care and good luck.

I'll definately post my results. Whenever I get around to the install.

I'm waiting till I can find out more about ALL of the suspension components. I still have no idea what camber plates, pillow-mounts, bump-stops are and what part they play in my suspension.

As a side note, I've heard people say that they have a lot of noise from the GC springs. One dude told me it only made noise in the winter . . . Is there a way to keep them quiet? Is this even a problem to begin with?


Stevie B
P10 :sun: