not feeling V-Tech

ok here's the deal, i recently bout a 94 civic and i test drove it and everything before i bought it and everything felt fine. Felt fine for someone who was just taught how to drive stick only a few weeks before. to cut a long story short. i mad a couple friends drive my car and everyone is telling me that the car moves well but the dont feel when the V-Tech kicks in. my question is, do you really feel significant power from the V-Tech once it kicks in or is my engine ok and my friends are being assholes. if something is wrong please tell me what is wrong and what i can do to solve the problem. take a look at what my car here www.cardomain.com/id/jamaicanbadboi (http://www.cardomain.com/id/jamaicanbadboi)

you dont really feel to much when it kicks in, but your car will sound differently, check your oil level, if it is too low, VTEC will not engage.

i love the way people talk about it like it's some sort of powerful mechanism waiting to be released.........Here come's vtec!!!! wooooshh!!!!! Taking of like a rocket guys!

Why is this in the JDM forum and not tech support... and god dammit it's VTEC not V-TECH. VTEC makes a bit more sound (with an intake and exhaust maybe) on an EX and that's it. It's a 127hp sohc engine, what do you expect? On my civic type r engine it is a rocket blast, especially in 1st and 2nd gear, but mine has almost 60 more hp than you and it's a dohc.

Buy an LED, wire one side into the green/yellow striped wire coming off your ecu, and ground the other side, and see if the light turns on while you're driving hard. I think VTEC engages around 4500rpms on the EX so look for it to light up around there. If it doesn't, then it's not working and we can go from there.

I'm not feeling their phones either, shitty range. :rolleyes: :cwm27:

another thing to get straight, does ur honda even have VTEC?
I mean u didnt even mentioned that the civic had it when u bought it or if u put it on later. If it doesnt have the VTEC, well of course its not gonna kick in!

"Vehicle: 94 Honda Ex 4 Dr"

Ex=vtec

I used to have a 96 Civic EX coupe and I could never feel the V-TEC on it......But I could hear it working.....

Like the privious posters said you cant expect much form a SOHC :sly:

I'm out to prove that previous statement as wrong as i can.

Heh...

Im not trying to bag on SOHC.....but from my experience with em its simply smarter to swap to a DOCH....:wink:

yeah, maybe i should, it would be the easy way out. :wink:
yeah, maybe i should, everyone else is doing it. :bigthumb:
yeah, maybe i should, with a 200 hp sohc i wouldn't get any respect like i would with a 200 hp dohc :rolleyes:

Have you taken it to the track out there?
What time did you get?

Only reason I ask is there is only so much you can do with SOHC.....Yes I have found some to be fast turbo, Supercharged, and NOS....but I have only seen them as full race..... are you full race? street?

Ive taken my Type-R to the Carlsbad raceway here in the San Diego Area and hit a 14.2 and planning to run at the pomona raceway and see what I do out there.

Originally posted by S1 Type-R
Heh...

Im not trying to bag on SOHC.....but from my experience with em its simply smarter to swap to a DOCH....:wink:

Really, huh? Smarter money wise? Nope. "anything a B-series can do, a D-series can do cheaper..." I good quote I plan to live by.

Smarter as you don't have to by lots of parts to make it work? Nope, swapping can actually be more of a hassle in some cases, esp. when swapping out for a JDM motor.

As quoted by Hurrikain on ATLhonda D-series message board...

Okay now for all you little boys and girls out there here is the shit that you need to know before hand about why B's are for bitches.

1. Everyone is doing it, dare to be different in a world of sameness
2. Price. It will cost on average to swap a B16 around 3,000 dollars. You are looking at getting a deal at that price. The motor will run around 2G at the least and installation and wiring is gonna run you a 1000 at most shops. A GSR(B18C1) or LS(B18B) are gonna be more for the motor and tranny looking nearly 4500 there. It is true an LS can be picked up but did you bother to research the tranny issue? Type R is 6G for the motor, tranny, ECU. All these prices are arbitrary and dont reflect things falling off trucks, people who know people, or someone that can do the work (right the first time) themselves. Might as well swap an H it will be less. And then at least you'd have my respect.
3. Torque. You cant beat a 90mm stroke no matter what. 77 is okay I guess if you like all top end charge and no streetable low end. the bigger B's do have similar strokes it is true, but they also have bigger ports that dont help the torque department. Also refer to Item #2.
4. D's are plentiful when you break, B's arent and they are expensive.
5. If you dont know about the Birds and B's you should give me all the money you saved for your swap so I can SPEND it on something worthwhile since you arent. If you are gonna build a street car you have come to the right place. If you are gonna build a RACECAR that isnt gonna be driven on the street and be built to run in modified or Hotrod or Sport FWD, then consider a B, ONLY IF IT IS A RACECAR and not street driven.

Consider the following link to support my claims about the prices:
http://www.ardperformance.com/cgi-bin/indexjd.pl?action=index

Realise that the straight B16A is only a direct drop in for the cars listed. Any other will require and OBD1 to OBD2 conversion harness as well as a Cable to Hydraulic conversion dealio and these arent exactly 100% cheap.


I mean must much more really be said about this debate? Yeah, I like a nice tuned B16 just as much as anyone else here that's all for them, but they AREN'T your only choice for more hp and quicker and faster speeds, I mean honestly. Do some research on this people. :rolleyes:

As for the SOHC VTEC matter, it's a known fact the D16 VTEC doesn't kick the seat of your pants like it would in a Prelude, or Integra, but you should be able to tell the differance if you know what to hear/look for and know exactly when it kicks in. Also make sure you VTEC parts (solenoids and such) are all working correctly. And like mentioned, hooking up a VTEC indicator light wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Originally posted by SilverY2KCivic


Really, huh? Smarter money wise? Nope. "anything a B-series can do, a D-series can do cheaper..."
Whoever said that is an idiot. Can you boost a stock D series 14 PSI safely? Hell no.
So a untouched B18B1 is boosting 14 PSI, making 250+ WHP. Lets see any stock D series do that. You have to drop in about 3 Grand in internals to do that.
Lets see, D16Y8+14 PSI=Connecting rod(s) venting the block - not to mention the piston(s) that just blew out through your hood along with the head. Oh one other thing, the tranny is 50 feet back laying on the ground too.

It all depends on the internals used. Not all D-series internals are as weak as you think. And D-block parts can be just much interswapped between eachother, as B-series internals. Before ASSUMING too much, you oughta maybe check out (http://pub161.ezboard.com/bbseriesalternative) the facts for yourself before you assume on something others are too afraid to try, and take the "easy way" bandwagon out. That's all the B-series is, a lazy man's fad.

I have a friend with a turbo EX and it hauls ass, and could easily whoop on my B16B, but he's poured about 6 grand on top of it for everything compared to my $4k engine (plus about $1k for installation parts and shipping) which can beat almost anything on the street. It's more respectable to have a fast sohc I guess, but realistically who's really winning? For that same $8k I can buy my engine, plus use that extra 3 grand and hook it up N/A and destroy him more reliably, and then more respectably by not using any boost.

Whoever said that is an idiot. Can you boost a stock D series 14 PSI safely? Hell no.
So a untouched B18B1 is boosting 14 PSI, making 250+ WHP. Lets see any stock D series do that. You have to drop in about 3 Grand in internals to do that.
Lets see, D16Y8+14 PSI=Connecting rod(s) venting the block - not to mention the piston(s) that just blew out through your hood along with the head. Oh one other thing, the tranny is 50 feet back laying on the ground too.


:iagree: Couldnt have said it better myself... :p

Hmm, no one seems to argue with my post, just agree with it. Maybe it's because they know i'm right? LOL, morons :banghead:
So to get back on topic a little, the SOHC VTEC's do not kick in as harsh as the DOHC VTEC's. This is a well known fact. It only makes sense, that having to kick on 2 cams is going to make more of a jolt than 1 cam. It's more ''rotating mass'' if you will.

Hmm, no one seems to argue with my post, just agree with it. Maybe it's because they know i'm right? LOL, morons :banghead:


Hmm, I take it you didn't click on the link in my previous post. Figures. :rolleyes: I can find you 100+ people on there that will argue this point to you enough to make you at least rethink your assumptions on the D-series motor and what it's REALLY capable of.

Hmm, I take it you didn't click on the link in my previous post. Figures. :rolleyes: I can find you 100+ people on there that will argue this point to you enough to make you at least rethink your assumptions on the D-series motor and what it's REALLY capable of.
Yeah I did click on the link.
Why don't you tell me a stock D series that can handle 14 PSI?
And it's not the ''lazy man's fad'', it's smart to do a B series swap. Considering the costs here-
B18B1 swap, 3K total with mounts ETC..., turbo kit-4K total for a good setup, 12 PSI-275 WHP, 500 bucks for a good exhaust system. so thats 7.5K total for 275 WHP
Stock D16Z6-rebuild internals-3K with sleeves, turbo kit-4K for a good setup running maybe 18 PSI, 500 for exhaust then you might make 250 WHP and not near as much torque for the same price as the B18B1 swap with turbo.
The D16 might make as much HP, but you have to remember your already at it's max it can handle. The B18B1 hasn't even been rebuilt, so once you do the internals you can push 20+ PSI and make 400 WHP. The D16Z6 with 20 PSI is going to do 300 WHP maybe.

Yeah I did click on the link.
Why don't you tell me a stock D series that can handle 14 PSI?
And it's not the ''lazy man's fad'', it's smart to do a B series swap. Considering the costs here-
B18B1 swap, 3K total with mounts ETC..., turbo kit-4K total for a good setup, 12 PSI-275 WHP, 500 bucks for a good exhaust system. so thats 7.5K total for 275 WHP
Stock D16Z6-rebuild internals-3K with sleeves, turbo kit-4K for a good setup running maybe 18 PSI, 500 for exhaust then you might make 250 WHP and not near as much torque for the same price as the B18B1 swap with turbo.
The D16 might make as much HP, but you have to remember your already at it's max it can handle. The B18B1 hasn't even been rebuilt, so once you do the internals you can push 20+ PSI and make 400 WHP. The D16Z6 with 20 PSI is going to do 300 WHP maybe.

Thats hittin the nail on the head. Look, D-series build-ups arn't dumb. It's a matter of what do you want. The boosted B18B1 will give you more torque than the D-series, the LS has the low peak torque too. Low end torque makes a big differnce in street driving too. Also, the 12psi boosted LS is at 250 hp, the built and boost d-series is at that, but much much closer to max'd out. And the cost of the build and turbo makes it cost wise, close to the LS +turbo. I know of a guy with a 500HP boosted LS/Vtec in san deigo. He built it himself, all the work himself. It will cost a LOT LOT more to try and get the d-series even close to that. It's all about your goals and willingness to spend. If you want 400HP, a swap is a good idea and good start. If you want a 160hp engine, it would be cheaper to boost the d-series, yes. But to stay that a swap in a "lazy mans fad" or "taking the bandwagon way out" is unfair. If I way a 400 HP boosted motor, with more torque, I am swappin in an LS, and I am not being lazy or following a bandwagon, I choosing to start with a motor that fits my goals better. Plus you can boost an LS safely to 12 psi on stock internals, there is NO WAY you want to go that high on a d-series motor. 6psi is about what the limit is on a stock internal d-series, before you need to build it up to handle more. Also, once built, the d-series @12psi still has less HP than the LS on stock internals @ 12psi. And if you build the LS? Well, you read what Robbie Potts got out of his...500HP.

Thats hittin the nail on the head. Look, D-series build-ups arn't dumb. It's a matter of what do you want. The boosted B18B1 will give you more torque than the D-series, the LS has the low peak torque too. Low end torque makes a big differnce in street driving too. Also, the 12psi boosted LS is at 250 hp, the built and boost d-series is at that, but much much closer to max'd out. And the cost of the build and turbo makes it cost wise, close to the LS +turbo. I know of a guy with a 500HP boosted LS/Vtec in san deigo. He built it himself, all the work himself. It will cost a LOT LOT more to try and get the d-series even close to that. It's all about your goals and willingness to spend. If you want 400HP, a swap is a good idea and good start. If you want a 160hp engine, it would be cheaper to boost the d-series, yes. But to stay that a swap in a "lazy mans fad" or "taking the bandwagon way out" is unfair. If I way a 400 HP boosted motor, with more torque, I am swappin in an LS, and I am not being lazy or following a bandwagon, I choosing to start with a motor that fits my goals better. Plus you can boost an LS safely to 12 psi on stock internals, there is NO WAY you want to go that high on a d-series motor. 6psi is about what the limit is on a stock internal d-series, before you need to build it up to handle more. Also, once built, the d-series @12psi still has less HP than the LS on stock internals @ 12psi. And if you build the LS? Well, you read what Robbie Potts got out of his...500HP.

Let's try this, it's "lazy mans" or "bandwagon" to anyone that suggests to swap for it just because they think it's the thing to do. :rolleyes: Face it, the B is played out, plain and simple. Almost everyone has one. Not to mention they are starting to get more scarce (since they aren't made anymore in the US) that the price of them is creeping up. Many think D's are worthless, so you can get them for WAY cheaper. So how is a B going to be a cheaper route if that's the case? Do some math people. Building up a D isn't as expensive as many of you think. A good cam for a D, what's it cost? Thinking $400-$600? Wrong! You can get a 15hp gain from a cam for a D for $65!!! How? Easy, you have Delta Cams send you a 272 spec re-grind cam. 250hp the max of the D on rebilt internals? LMAO, not even close! Bisi Ezerioha, I'll bet most of you don't even know who that is. He's the D motor drap pioneer. He runs a 10.70 second ALL MOTOR D15 (not D16 here) CRX. That's right, 10.70 Even those with B's know how hard it is to pull those kind of times even in all motor form. If he can do that from a D15 or all motors (it's weaker than a D16 is) then D's have way more potential than you all give them credit for or think thy can handle. Simply put, don't assume. You don't have to replace rods off the bat, shot peening can give you the strength you need for much less to a certain point. Pistons, merely swapping to pistons from like an A1/6 or Z6 motor can make a differance between night and day. Swapping out to a Y8 intake mani is much smarter and cheaper than swapping to like a Skunk2 mani. So with some brian juice in action and some research skills, you guys are wrong with your assumptions on the D. YEah if you boost to 14psi blah blah blah then you gotta do some serious work, but you'll have to to even a B, so you come out the same eitherway, but you get the respect if you do it with the D.

I'm sure it's possible, but I doubt that car would be even close to streetable and it probably weighs like 1400lbs because the entire car is stripped. On a daily grinder without the slicks and complete stripping that car would probably run 12's-13's. Still superb times for a built sohc, but realistically for a street car, the dohc b-series is a better swap in my opinion.

Let's try this, it's "lazy mans" or "bandwagon" to anyone that suggests to swap for it just because they think it's the thing to do. :rolleyes: Face it, the B is played out, plain and simple. Almost everyone has one. Not to mention they are starting to get more scarce (since they aren't made anymore in the US) that the price of them is creeping up. Many think D's are worthless, so you can get them for WAY cheaper. So how is a B going to be a cheaper route if that's the case? Do some math people. Building up a D isn't as expensive as many of you think. A good cam for a D, what's it cost? Thinking $400-$600? Wrong! You can get a 15hp gain from a cam for a D for $65!!! How? Easy, you have Delta Cams send you a 272 spec re-grind cam. 250hp the max of the D on rebilt internals? LMAO, not even close! Bisi Ezerioha, I'll bet most of you don't even know who that is. He's the D motor drap pioneer. He runs a 10.70 second ALL MOTOR D15 (not D16 here) CRX. That's right, 10.70 Even those with B's know how hard it is to pull those kind of times even in all motor form. If he can do that from a D15 or all motors (it's weaker than a D16 is) then D's have way more potential than you all give them credit for or think thy can handle. Simply put, don't assume. You don't have to replace rods off the bat, shot peening can give you the strength you need for much less to a certain point. Pistons, merely swapping to pistons from like an A1/6 or Z6 motor can make a differance between night and day. Swapping out to a Y8 intake mani is much smarter and cheaper than swapping to like a Skunk2 mani. So with some brian juice in action and some research skills, you guys are wrong with your assumptions on the D. YEah if you boost to 14psi blah blah blah then you gotta do some serious work, but you'll have to to even a B, so you come out the same eitherway, but you get the respect if you do it with the D.

OMG you moron, :disappoin , I think you completely missed the point.
TORQUE
An engine with more torque will rule on the street. Yes at the track you need as much HP as possible, but on the street is a little different.
And I said 300 WHP, not 250 :rolleyes:
A 300 WHP built D16 with be out done by a 250 WHP B18B1, simply because of torque. Respect? I call it stupidity :shakehead

BTW I bet that guy with the D15 has about 30K in his engine
Can we please start comparing apples to apples please???? Apparently not. :banghead: :banghead:

OMG you moron, :disappoin , I think you completely missed the point.
TORQUE
An engine with more torque will rule on the street. Yes at the track you need as much HP as possible, but on the street is a little different.
And I said 300 WHP, not 250 :rolleyes:
A 300 WHP built D16 with be out done by a 250 WHP B18B1, simply because of torque. Respect? I call it stupidity :shakehead

BTW I bet that guy with the D15 has about 30K in his engine
Can we please start comparing apples to apples please???? Apparently not. :banghead: :banghead:

Name calling, interesting tactic that will get you nowhere fast. :nono: Better watch your mouth and who you say what to here.

I'd LOVE to see you post that same bit on the site in the link I posted to you, so I can see them ream you a new one on how not true that is. Oh, and the D15 doesn't have anywhere near that much invested in the engine, he can barely afford to make any east coast appearances and he's not even sponsored, well yet. But he does design and R&D his own parts that he makes for D motors, but that's just recent and AFTER his CRX was all built up to the 10 second mark. Again, failure to RESEARCH and just assume things won't get you far in life. Pretty sad, but it happens. :disappoin Looks like you lost that bet. ;) It's called RESPECT for the project at hand, hookups and knowing what you are doing to save in labor charges. Any mechanically inclined car person should know that. :rolleyes:

On that note, what experience if ANY do you have with D-series motors? A well built D is stupidity? Why, because you don't like them to begin with, or because you fail to look into the FACTS of the matter? I'm not saying a D is better than a B, but it's not a bad choice let a lone a stupid one. It's smart because dispite what you think, it's actually CHEAPER than a B unless you really want to pull some serious hp out of it, then you're better off with a swap, but not a B, you're in H-block territory there, and that's WAY more worthwhile than getting a B.

And again, your torque theory is ALL wrong. How so? Well let's see, '00 D16Y7 puts out 106hp and 103lbs/ft. or torque. '00 Si B16 puts out 160hp and 111lbs/ft. of torque. That's almost 50 lbs/ft shy of the hp rating, where the D puts out almost as much torque as hp. Which is gonna have more than the other in the long run? Also, why do people do CRVTEC swaps? Simply put, the B20 has more torque than B16 or even B18. It's TRUCK motor after all. Obviously a stock B (non hybrid head I mean) doesn't cut it for torque. If one just wanted a B18 with VTEC, they would do a LS-V swap instead. I think YOU are the one missing the concept of torque here. :disappoin

Name calling, interesting tactic that will get you nowhere fast. :nono: Better watch your mouth and who you say what to here.

I'd LOVE to see you post that same bit on the site in the link I posted to you, so I can see them ream you a new one on how not true that is. Oh, and the D15 doesn't have anywhere near that much invested in the engine, he can barely afford to make any east coast appearances and he's not even sponsored, well yet. But he does design and R&D his own parts that he makes for D motors, but that's just recent and AFTER his CRX was all built up to the 10 second mark. Again, failure to RESEARCH and just assume things won't get you far in life. Pretty sad, but it happens. :disappoin Looks like you lost that bet. ;) It's called RESPECT for the project at hand, hookups and knowing what you are doing to save in labor charges. Any mechanically inclined car person should know that. :rolleyes:

On that note, what experience if ANY do you have with D-series motors? A well built D is stupidity? Why, because you don't like them to begin with, or because you fail to look into the FACTS of the matter? I'm not saying a D is better than a B, but it's not a bad choice let a lone a stupid one. It's smart because dispite what you think, it's actually CHEAPER than a B unless you really want to pull some serious hp out of it, then you're better off with a swap, but not a B, you're in H-block territory there, and that's WAY more worthwhile than getting a B.

And again, your torque theory is ALL wrong. How so? Well let's see, '00 D16Y7 puts out 106hp and 103lbs/ft. or torque. '00 Si B16 puts out 160hp and 111lbs/ft. of torque. That's almost 50 lbs/ft shy of the hp rating, where the D puts out almost as much torque as hp. Which is gonna have more than the other in the long run? Also, why do people do CRVTEC swaps? Simply put, the B20 has more torque than B16 or even B18. It's TRUCK motor after all. Obviously a stock B (non hybrid head I mean) doesn't cut it for torque. If one just wanted a B18 with VTEC, they would do a LS-V swap instead. I think YOU are the one missing the concept of torque here. :disappoin

For the record, I do not think keeping a D is dumb by any means. But as for the torque arguement, read my post again and you see I was refering the the LS, not the B16A. I know full well the B16A lacks low-end torque. I don't think I even refered to the B16A once. I realize that the B16A has not much more torque than the D16 motors. Thats why I left it out. Please, understand I am NOT bashing the D. If you want, say, 160-170 hp and thats it, it may be cheaper to boost the d16z6 to 7psi or so to achive your power, than putting in that B16A. But if you want a 300HP motor and/or if low-end torque makes a difference, putting in an LS is not a bad idea. It's really, all about what your goals are. For the first example, buying a B16A isn't nessesarly a better choice. Either will do that person fine. But that doesn't make buying a b16a dumb, unless he does it to "fit a trend." Buying to "fit a trend" is dumb as hell, we all know that. Buy for your goals. If you are looking to build a high output motor, B-series motors are a better base to work with, due to the fact that they begin with more power than the D series motors. This is especially true with Forced Induction, where the base starting horsepower directly affects the HP made at a give boost. A Motor with a 160 HP base will have a lot more HP at 14.7 psi, for example, than a motor with a 127HP base start (roughly approxamated: 320HP compred to 254HP). That said, if low end torque is important to you, and a 300HP+ motor is your goal, swapping in a LS after your D15 bit the dust is by no means a dumb choice. Let's all stop the hating here (this comment is not directed at anyone in particular) and just admit, what motor is the "smart buy" for you depends fully on your goals. That can make a motor a good choice in one senerio, but dumb in another.

1. Everyone is doing it, dare to be different in a world of sameness

A. So what is being different about keeping the motor the car came with? because no one is doing that? This makes NO SENSE. I seriously doubt there are anywhere near the number of B series Civics as there are D series.

2. Price. It will cost on average to swap a B16 around 3,000 dollars. You are looking at getting a deal at that price. The motor will run around 2G at the least and installation and wiring is gonna run you a 1000 at most shops. A GSR(B18C1) or LS(B18B) are gonna be more for the motor and tranny looking nearly 4500 there. It is true an LS can be picked up but did you bother to research the tranny issue? Type R is 6G for the motor, tranny, ECU. All these prices are arbitrary and dont reflect things falling off trucks, people who know people, or someone that can do the work (right the first time) themselves. Might as well swap an H it will be less. And then at least you'd have my respect.

B. Hmmm...no, more like a $2300 complete change over would cost, let me think...$2300? It cost me a whole $1900 to completely swap in a B16. Not to mention the LS motors usually cost slightly LESS than the vtecs, and for $4500 you can get a complete ITR swap, not just the motor and tranny. If you have someone else do the install then sure it can run into a price range like that, so can overhauling a D series.

3. Torque. You cant beat a 90mm stroke no matter what. 77 is okay I guess if you like all top end charge and no streetable low end. the bigger B's do have similar strokes it is true, but they also have bigger ports that dont help the torque department. Also refer to Item #2.

C. Usable powerband wins races, so this one doesn't even need to be touched, since a D series won't even touch a B without some serious mods, and I don't mean some bolt ons.

4. D's are plentiful when you break, B's arent and they are expensive.

D. More expensive, but hardly unaffordable, and you can readily get parts for ANY B series motor from your local Honda dealer.

5. If you dont know about the Birds and B's you should give me all the money you saved for your swap so I can SPEND it on something worthwhile since you arent. If you are gonna build a street car you have come to the right place. If you are gonna build a RACECAR that isnt gonna be driven on the street and be built to run in modified or Hotrod or Sport FWD, then consider a B, ONLY IF IT IS A RACECAR and not street driven.

E. A B series in a civic is a PERFECT street motor, hmmm... I guess that is why Honda put them into civics in other countries. Why on earth would you say "only if it's a racecar and not street driven"

For the record, I do not think keeping a D is dumb by any means. But as for the torque arguement, read my post again and you see I was refering the the LS, not the B16A. I know full well the B16A lacks low-end torque. I don't think I even refered to the B16A once. I realize that the B16A has not much more torque than the D16 motors. Thats why I left it out. Please, understand I am NOT bashing the D. If you want, say, 160-170 hp and thats it, it may be cheaper to boost the d16z6 to 7psi or so to achive your power, than putting in that B16A. But if you want a 300HP motor and/or if low-end torque makes a difference, putting in an LS is not a bad idea. It's really, all about what your goals are. For the first example, buying a B16A isn't nessesarly a better choice. Either will do that person fine. But that doesn't make buying a b16a dumb, unless he does it to "fit a trend." Buying to "fit a trend" is dumb as hell, we all know that. Buy for your goals. If you are looking to build a high output motor, B-series motors are a better base to work with, due to the fact that they begin with more power than the D series motors. This is especially true with Forced Induction, where the base starting horsepower directly affects the HP made at a give boost. A Motor with a 160 HP base will have a lot more HP at 14.7 psi, for example, than a motor with a 127HP base start (roughly approxamated: 320HP compred to 254HP). That said, if low end torque is important to you, and a 300HP+ motor is your goal, swapping in a LS after your D15 bit the dust is by no means a dumb choice. Let's all stop the hating here (this comment is not directed at anyone in particular) and just admit, what motor is the "smart buy" for you depends fully on your goals. That can make a motor a good choice in one senerio, but dumb in another.

You hit the nail on the head in detail here on what I lightly touched on, it all depends on the goals in mind. For me personally, I'd absolutely swap out if I was going for more than 250hp What would I swap for? Either CRVTEC or build up an H22. H22 is more feasable since it's quite torquey for a Honda motor. I wasn't going after your post, but moreless PWMAN's post. You have very valid and excellent points and arguments Eckoman_pdx. from what I've seen, most that ask about modding their D motor, aren't looking for anything big with it, there's not really any reason to swap, as it can in many cases cost more than building up a D to B-16/18 STOCK levels (building up a D for 160-170hp). Once above that, that's when a swap may come into consideration IMO. Once pushing the say 220hp mark, that's when you'll want to look at your swap options, as the stock D internals on a D16 (not D15 here) are at their max. 200hp is what was thought to be their limit, but that's not so true anymore. They can actually hold up to more than previously thought. But the strain will get to them over time of course. i know of a guy running 220hp out of his D15B7 with STOCK internals (just has cam, port and polish, adjusted timing and a 50 shot of Zex). We are amazed his internals are holding up, and he wants to up his nitrous shotage, but him nor us other fellw D'ers are optimistic that the rods will hold up to anymore. We're pretty much figuring they will break if he goes any higher. He's anticipating the same as well, but wants to find out the absolute limit of them. As for the "fad" part of B's. If a person swaps one because they plan to really tweak it out for quick times, then all the power to them, I love B motors (can't deny the look and sound of them) but if someo one does it because their friends did, or because someone told them they should, or they think they will be "cool" with it, then they are only kidding them selves and just wasted a chunk of change on something they probably didn't need in the first place. It's proven cheaper (if you know how and what you are doing) to build a D to the stock specs of a B than to just straight out swap for a B.

To jcrx, that last part you posted, when the guy said a B is for a race car, not the street, he was refering to a built up B, not a stock. If stock was the case, then Honda wouldn't have put them into as many cars as they did. But the fact of the matter is (holds true for ANY car), the more power you modify into a car (not talking high hp production exotics here) then the less streetable it becomes. He's also saying with that, that if you plan to have a seriously fast drag car, that's when you'd need or want a B. B is a racers motor, where as a D is more street oriented when built up for either of them.

\

And again, your torque theory is ALL wrong. How so? Well let's see, '00 D16Y7 puts out 106hp and 103lbs/ft. or torque. '00 Si B16 puts out 160hp and 111lbs/ft. of torque. That's almost 50 lbs/ft shy of the hp rating, where the D puts out almost as much torque as hp. Which is gonna have more than the other in the long run? Also, why do people do CRVTEC swaps? Simply put, the B20 has more torque than B16 or even B18. It's TRUCK motor after all. Obviously a stock B (non hybrid head I mean) doesn't cut it for torque. If one just wanted a B18 with VTEC, they would do a LS-V swap instead. I think YOU are the one missing the concept of torque here. :disappoin
Yeah I must call you a moron again... :banghead:
Of course, they are both 1.6L engines, they are going to make similar torque. But look how much more HP the B is creating. I never said HP didn't matter, I said it doesn't matter as much as torque. Besides, I never was talking about the B16 anyway, I was talking B18B1.
And of course naturally you took the best example from the D series and the worst example from the B series. OK let me flip that around on you, the B16 has the lowest torque of all the B series-whats the lowest torque of all the D series? HUH? Thats what I thought.
There is a reason Honda themselves never made a performance engine out of the D. The D's were made strictly for economy, and extremely mild performance when they added VTEC for the EX models. But even when they got serious they put in a B series, like for example the 99-00 SI civic.
Of course the B20 has more torque, it has more displacement-duh. But you have to build the engine first because the cylinder walls are so weak like the H series. The whole point of all of my posts is the best engine to turbo is the B18B1 overall because of the torque it produces and the amount of boost it can handle on it's STOCK internals with pump gas. Therefore being it is the best engine to turbo it is the best engine to swap because you can get 300 WHP for about 7K, and then you can always rebuild the internals and make a 500 WHP one if you want.

Oh one other thing, why is it that the worst B series (in terms of HP) has 140 HP and there is no D series that ever even had that much? You can even count JDM engines if you want, and still not even 140 HP.
LOL-Yeah the D's are really good aren't they??? :screwy: :loser: :lol2:

Oh one other thing, why is it that the worst B series (in terms of HP) has 140 HP and there is no D series that ever even had that much? You can even count JDM engines if you want, and still not even 140 HP.
LOL-Yeah the D's are really good aren't they??? :screwy: :loser: :lol2:

137hp to be exact in the DOHC ZC D16A8, but who's counting. ;) Again, FAILURE to research. Go ahead and keep digging yourself into the ground. I'm sure you'll fight for that extra 3hp differance though. :rolleyes: :nono:

Don't be jealous or mad when your a$$ get's passed by a D. :rofl:

137hp to be exact in the DOHC ZC D16A8, but who's counting. ;) Again, FAILURE to research. Go ahead and keep digging yourself into the ground. I'm sure you'll fight for that extra 3hp differance though. :rolleyes: :nono:

Don't be jealous or mad when your a$$ get's passed by a D. :rofl:
I have to interject here, sorry, but I have had the DOHC D16Z5 134hp in a rex, and I am sorry, but it is NOT going to beat a B in a civic. Maybe a standard DOHC D against an auto B, but that's it. Oh and yes PWMAN the lowest Hp on a B series is the auto SiRII and it is 155Ps due to Hondas lame ass auto cams. If we are talking about a built D vs a stock B then yea ok it's going to put down more (depending on the build), but that is a ghey argument, since you can build a B to levels that a D just isn't going to see without serious money. Props go out to those that are sticking with their D's and building them good, but I am really sick of the ones that are saying ignorant shit like "Dude, everyone is doing B series, I am going to be original and keep my D" Sorry for the rant, but listening to D vs B is getting as dumb ass import vs domestic. Shit I love cars, import, domestic, whatever, and D and B series are both Honda motors so why can't everyone just shut up all ready, and enjoy your car and building it up to how you want it and stop worrying and crying about what others say and do.

137hp to be exact in the DOHC ZC D16A8, but who's counting. ;) Again, FAILURE to research. Go ahead and keep digging yourself into the ground. I'm sure you'll fight for that extra 3hp differance though. :rolleyes: :nono:

Don't be jealous or mad when your a$$ get's passed by a D. :rofl:

Okay, not I am in no way argueing here. I assumed that his 140hp "worst hp output" for a B-series was a 92-93 B18A1 or a 96+ B18B1, both of which have an output of 140 hp. However, that being said, the 90-91 B18A1 only had 130HP, Honda up'd it to 140 as you can see, for the 92-93 Integra non-GSR models. The 94 + B18B1, the motor most commenly refered to by people (including me) as the "LS" motor, has 142HP. So, in short, techincally, the weakest B-series motor is the 90-91 B18A1 @ 130HP from the 90-91 USDM non-GSR Integra models, not the 140HP 92-93 B18A1. Not joining the arguement, just stating the facts :smile: Also, I think this arguement is pointless. I respect the person who opts to build there D, I respect the person would swaps in a B and builds it. I fully stick by my statement in my pervious post. It's all about goals in what engine you go with. Sticking with a D my be the correct option for a person with one goal, where as swapping in a B way be the correct option for someone with another. With motors, it's like choosing turbos, which one is correct for you depends fully on your goals. If my goal is 160WHP and low-end torque isn't a big deal, for example, then swapping in a B-series like the LS may very well indeed cost more than building your own turbo kit for your D16Z6 and running it at a safe 7psi. But if 300WHP and low-end torque are your goals, why are you keeping the D16Z6? The B18B1 is a much more reasonable choice , and it most likely will cost less to get there. It is well known that the B-series motors like the LS have higher output potential, and in the cases of the 1.8's more torque. This obvious makes them a better base to start with high output apps. But if someone is looking for 160WHP, then sticking with a D isn't bad. He doesn't need that base with the higher output potenial if he isn't looking to expliot it. For me personally, with and the output goals I want in a motor, including the minimum I would want, sticking with a d-series motor doesn't make sense for me at all due to my goals and perferences.

i have a vtec ex how do u hook up the vtec indicator light

i have a vtec ex how do u hook up the vtec indicator light
Splice a wire into the ONLY green wire w/yellow stripe on your ecu, which is positive, and ground the other side of the led or light or whatever.

How about this food for thought. Yeah people may argue "Dude, everyone is doing B series, I am going to be original and keep my D" but the GAY argument is ones that argue that a D is a POS and the only option is to swap. If you can't respect a built motor that can hold it's own (talking a built up D here) then plain and simple, you're an idiot! Don't build up a D to be original, don't swap for a B just because people tell you that's your only choice, or because you want to have what your friends have, do those because YOU want them, and because which ever of them will benifit you most. Bandwagons are for people that can't think for themselves, this applies to either side of the argument here. But if you hate on a D just because it's a D, then expect to get proven wrong about it and look dumb in the process.

137hp to be exact in the DOHC ZC D16A8, but who's counting. ;) Again, FAILURE to research. Go ahead and keep digging yourself into the ground. I'm sure you'll fight for that extra 3hp differance though. :rolleyes: :nono:

Don't be jealous or mad when your a$$ get's passed by a D. :rofl:
There was no failure to research, why the hell do you think I made the statement in the first place? I know about the ZC, and it's 137 HP.
I do have to retract my previous statement about the 140 being the lowest for a B, I forgot about the 90-91 Teg LS motor has 130.
But again this doesn't seem to be sinking in here, the lowest HP B VS the highest HP D. And your saying oh it's only 3 HP, yeah but thats the lowest B and the Highest D!!!!! Sink in yet?
Anyway, the B18B1 will still have more TORQUE though than the ZC though.

How about this food for thought. Yeah people may argue "Dude, everyone is doing B series, I am going to be original and keep my D" but the GAY argument is ones that argue that a D is a POS and the only option is to swap. If you can't respect a built motor that can hold it's own (talking a built up D here) then plain and simple, you're an idiot! Don't build up a D to be original, don't swap for a B just because people tell you that's your only choice, or because you want to have what your friends have, do those because YOU want them, and because which ever of them will benifit you most. Bandwagons are for people that can't think for themselves, this applies to either side of the argument here. But if you hate on a D just because it's a D, then expect to get proven wrong about it and look dumb in the process.

Exactly. as a matter of fact, I have a buddy right now just bought a carbed 95 civic hatchback, EG2 I believe, he wants to build it up, I told him to swap to a fuel injected at least, he said no, lets build this one, so now the quest is beginning, and it is going to suck since the parts for carbed D series or going to be hard to find.

Exactly. as a matter of fact, I have a buddy right now just bought a carbed 95 civic hatchback, EG2 I believe, he wants to build it up, I told him to swap to a fuel injected at least, he said no, lets build this one, so now the quest is beginning, and it is going to suck since the parts for carbed D series or going to be hard to find.


Yeah they will be harder to find, but it'll be better for power in the long run since if I remember right, carbs can spray more fuel into the motor than fuel injection can. Even the top import drag cars use carbed motors.

Look for all you peeps in here!

Hey silvery2kcivic (Matt) you know what I agree with you. I was thinking about getting a swap but after all you guys started talking about 3 grand here and 4 grand there f**k that, that is too much money for me to be giving to these money hungry auto shops just for a f**cking swap. Plus I'm married and I don't think my wife would agree with me having a motor that cost more than my car. A lot has to do with hook ups. Yes I know Bisi Ezerioha, his car is running like a 16:1 compression, yes that is unheard of in any Honda motor especially a D16. My point to all you... who gives a f**k about a D16 or a B18 as long as you like your engine and what it does for you.

I have a D16 DX and we all know that engine isn't the engine you want to be racing B18's with... On the contrary I have a 19Ohp D16 and I win some and I loose some. The ones that I loose I give them a run for their money and they all come back to see what I have under my hood. That alone is good enough for me, because when they have GSR's under their hoods and I have a D16 SOHC. (no superchargers, no nos) that's good enough for me. It's all respect and hook ups. F**k it I'll race who ever wants to race me when I return to the states!!!

DREEM: FASTEST MOST ILLEGAL DX :evillol:

There was no failure to research, why the hell do you think I made the statement in the first place? I know about the ZC, and it's 137 HP.
I do have to retract my previous statement about the 140 being the lowest for a B, I forgot about the 90-91 Teg LS motor has 130.
But again this doesn't seem to be sinking in here, the lowest HP B VS the highest HP D. And your saying oh it's only 3 HP, yeah but thats the lowest B and the Highest D!!!!! Sink in yet?
Anyway, the B18B1 will still have more TORQUE though than the ZC though.

The B18B1 is from a 94+ Integra. The 90-91 Integra had a B18A1. The B18B1 will have more than just torque and displacement on the ZC, the B18B1 has the Horsepower advantage too, 142HP vs 137HP. The B18B1 is from the 94+ Integra (142hp, 127 lb/ft of torque). The B18A1 was the 90-91 Integra motor that had 130HP and 121 ft/lbs of torque (the 92-93 version of the B18A1 had 140HP and 127 ft/lbs or torque). The 90-93 and 94+ teg LS's had different B-series motors, the B18A1 for 90-93 (with 90-91 and 92-93 having different output numbers) and the B18B1 for 94+.

Also, as I said before, I agree that this B vs D agruement is pointless. It's all about the motor that suits your goals and needs best, and the one that you want. We all know there are more powerful stock Honda Motors out there than any of the D-series motors. BUt your motor should be about your vision and goals, not someone elses. I like what SilverY2KCivic said, don't swap in a B series because it's trendy or because your friends want you to, do it because it's the motor you want. Thats why I have a B18B1, it fits my goals and is the motor I wanted.

I agree with eckoman

The B18B1 is from a 94+ Integra. The 90-91 Integra had a B18A1. The B18B1 will have more than just torque and displacement on the ZC, the B18B1 has the Horsepower advantage too, 142HP vs 137HP. The B18B1 is from the 94+ Integra (142hp, 127 lb/ft of torque). The B18A1 was the 90-91 Integra motor that had 130HP and 121 ft/lbs of torque (the 92-93 version of the B18A1 had 140HP and 127 ft/lbs or torque). The 90-93 and 94+ teg LS's had different B-series motors, the B18A1 for 90-93 (with 90-91 and 92-93 having different output numbers) and the B18B1 for 94+.

Also, as I said before, I agree that this B vs D agruement is pointless. It's all about the motor that suits your goals and needs best, and the one that you want. We all know there are more powerful stock Honda Motors out there than any of the D-series motors. BUt your motor should be about your vision and goals, not someone elses. I like what SilverY2KCivic said, don't swap in a B series because it's trendy or because your friends want you to, do it because it's the motor you want. Thats why I have a B18B1, it fits my goals and is the motor I wanted.

:cool:

A B just doesn't fit into my goals, but for many such as Ecko, it does. I'm just trying to open up the eyes of the stubburn one track/motor minds, and those that have no faith in the D. What works for one person, might not for another, even if it is better in most cases. Not everyone has the budget for a swap (drop $3k-$4k on the spot for the motor and installation), whereas with building up a D, you can do a little at a time and even though it can cost you the same, the expenses are spread out for the more bugeted inclined such as myself.

:cool:

A B just doesn't fit into my goals, but for many such as Ecko, it does. I'm just trying to open up the eyes of the stubburn one track/motor minds, and those that have no faith in the D. What works for one person, might not for another, even if it is better in most cases. Not everyone has the budget for a swap (drop $3k-$4k on the spot for the motor and installation), whereas with building up a D, you can do a little at a time and even though it can cost you the same, the expenses are spread out for the more bugeted inclined such as myself.
OK first off I never said a swap was necessary in ALL situations.
Secondly, a good turbo kit costs about 3500 ''on the spot'' just like a swap would. Actually, a B18b1 swap costs about 2K, then you can always buy mounts, etc later.
My simple point was that the B18B1 swap (not all B series) is worth the effort and money to swap in, simply because you can get 300 WHP on the stock internals-which is NOT possible on any D series. Even after you build the D you would be lucky to get 300 WHP. After awhile you can save up(while making 300 WHP on stock internals) to build the engine and make 400 + WHP or whatever you want.

I have got a SOHC VTEC and cant really hear it until around third gear sometimes in second but like the others said it is not as loud in a SOHC and good luck tryin to get a SOHC to produce 200hp especially to the wheels and it still be NA because that will take a lot of trial and error and probably not the best daily driver. And take those stickers off your trunk and please lower it for everyones sake.

I'm out to prove that previous statement as wrong as i can.

and like MOST all other SOHC fan you will prolly nvr do anything impressive, give up and buy a dohc, blow it up, or just keep talkin about how you are goin to build up a sohc but nvr do it. that's just the way i see it around here, people always talk about building one up but they don't ever do it becuae they realized that it makes much more since to just swap out motors, that's way most people do it, they aren't jumping on any bandwagon, they just was realiable power for cheap. i know of one person who was gonna build up a sohc, he ownes a shop in fl and he eventually just took it to the track with a 100 shot and blew it up and put his build, and boosted ls/vtec in.

this is more for silver than anyone, caue you too will prolly nvr break into the 12's with you sohc. sry

and like MOST all other SOHC fan you will prolly nvr do anything impressive, give up and buy a dohc, blow it up, or just keep talkin about how you are goin to build up a sohc but nvr do it. that's just the way i see it around here, people always talk about building one up but they don't ever do it becuae they realized that it makes much more since to just swap out motors, that's way most people do it, they aren't jumping on any bandwagon, they just was realiable power for cheap. i know of one person who was gonna build up a sohc, he ownes a shop in fl and he eventually just took it to the track with a 100 shot and blew it up and put his build, and boosted ls/vtec in.

this is more for silver than anyone, caue you too will prolly nvr break into the 12's with you sohc. sry

LMAO! You're more ignorant than PWman is. :rofl:

But you know what, you're right about me, I won't ever break into the 12's. You know why? That's not my goal, drag and straight lines is for people that don't know to handle their car. I auto-X, if you didn't read above, the domiating cars there are the ones with the LEAST amount of power. I'm not trying to build some faster than everyone rocket, but what I do with mine WILL get me to the top of what I do. Give up and buy a DOHC, why? Because you say so, because I should believe that you are right? Well you couldn't be anymore wrong. :banghead: I can bet you the best B swap out there that I'd be throwing away my $$$ if I ever swapped my more with what I do with my car. And I'm not kidding about that whether you think it's true or not. Willing to shake on that deal? I didn't think so. :thumbsdow :rolleyes:

Obviously you have no respect for Hondas let alone cars in general if your answer is "give and swap to a DOHC." That's a pretty lame excuse, and I know many B-series owners that would agree with me on that, and even more D-series builders that will prove you dead wrong. Keep posting trash, because frankly, that's all it is.Get rid of your hatorade and get some Red Bull. It'll give you wings wich is more than I can say about your SOHC vs. DOHC theory. :lol:

OK first off I never said a swap was necessary in ALL situations.
Secondly, a good turbo kit costs about 3500 ''on the spot'' just like a swap would. Actually, a B18b1 swap costs about 2K, then you can always buy mounts, etc later.
My simple point was that the B18B1 swap (not all B series) is worth the effort and money to swap in, simply because you can get 300 WHP on the stock internals-which is NOT possible on any D series. Even after you build the D you would be lucky to get 300 WHP. After awhile you can save up(while making 300 WHP on stock internals) to build the engine and make 400 + WHP or whatever you want.

I understand your point, but you still haven't obviously researched it, thus it's incorrect.

First off, if your paying $3500 for a turbo kit (which would be the Edelbrock for that price) then you're getting way ripped off, bottom line there. I can custom build a better setup than that for $1k LESS that'll still be as reliable, and put out the same power figures, 172hp. Secondly, cheaper even if you go with a B18B1? No way! Because first the cost of the motor and swap (at least $2k like you mentioned) PLUS about another $1500 just to bring it up to the 170hp level of the turbo'ed D motor, in N/A form for the B18. You come out at the same, if not spending MORE than you needed to. For one, cams alone will run you at least $800-$900 since you gotta get TWO of them, and you're only gaining 25-30 hp at the most from that if even that much (doubtful). But you're missing the point that people aren't always going for max gains from a motor. Plain and simple, to match a B18B1 to do N/A what a D can do at it's max, will cost you about the same amount of $$$. Only once you surpass that is the B a clear winner. Like I said though, if you're gonna do that, might as well swap to an H first thing as you're already at 200hp in STOCK form off the bat, and for a LESS cost than getting a B18 swap and building it to the H22's 200hp point.

LMAO! You're more ignorant than PWman is. :rofl:

But you know what, you're right about me, I won't ever break into the 12's. You know why? That's not my goal, drag and straight lines is for people that don't know to handle their car. I auto-X, if you didn't read above, the domiating cars there are the ones with the LEAST amount of power. I'm not trying to build some faster than everyone rocket, but what I do with mine WILL get me to the top of what I do. Give up and buy a DOHC, why? Because you say so, because I should believe that you are right? Well you couldn't be anymore wrong. :banghead: I can bet you the best B swap out there that I'd be throwing away my $$$ if I ever swapped my more with what I do with my car. And I'm not kidding about that whether you think it's true or not. Willing to shake on that deal? I didn't think so. :thumbsdow :rolleyes:

Obviously you have no respect for Hondas let alone cars in general if your answer is "give and swap to a DOHC." That's a pretty lame excuse, and I know many B-series owners that would agree with me on that, and even more D-series builders that will prove you dead wrong. Keep posting trash, because frankly, that's all it is.Get rid of your hatorade and get some Red Bull. It'll give you wings wich is more than I can say about your SOHC vs. DOHC theory. :lol:



ok so you are goin for autocross, and that's cool and all but incase you forgot the arguement was first SOHC vs. DOHC then it progessed to if the d16 could be faster than a b-series ( since people remembered the DOHC zc is a d-series). which is why i quoted the other guy and not you. and yes the d series is fast but with alot of work, where as a b-series can be faster with around the same or less amount of money and stay more reliable in the process. you should try some of that research you are so fond of since you too were arguing about which is faster and "What the d16 is capable of" or the "10 second d15" and not what engine is best for handling and auto-X:shakehead

1) I can custom build a better setup than that for $1k LESS that'll still be as reliable, and put out the same power figures, 172hp. Secondly, cheaper even if you go with a B18B1? No way! Because first the cost of the motor and swap (at least $2k like you mentioned) PLUS about another $1500 just to bring it up to the 170hp level of the turbo'ed D motor, in N/A form for the B18. You come out at the same, if not spending MORE than you needed to.



2) Like I said though, if you're gonna do that, might as well swap to an H first thing as you're already at 200hp in STOCK form off the bat, and for a LESS cost than getting a B18 swap and building it to the H22's 200hp point.


1. so you have 172hp boosting 7psi(which is pushin it) with the dx, but for 1000bux more (2g's for the b18 plus 1500 for the custom turbo setup) you can be at 240hp boostin 10 psi on the stock bottom end and ok tuning(i've seen 12 psi on really good tuning) since 1psi= roughly 10hp.




2. see i dunno about this either because you gonna think 3 g's for the motor and like what? 600 for the mounts?? so then you can do like i said above, but it wouldn't be as reliable, tho is would make 40 more hp. i guess it's what you want with that one, great reliability or bragging rights, or a realible motor and a turbo.

ok so you are goin for autocross, and that's cool and all but incase you forgot the arguement was first SOHC vs. DOHC then it progessed to if the d16 could be faster than a b-series ( since people remembered the DOHC zc is a d-series). which is why i quoted the other guy and not you. and yes the d series is fast but with alot of work, where as a b-series can be faster with around the same or less amount of money and stay more reliable in the process. you should try some of that research you are so fond of since you too were arguing about which is faster and "What the d16 is capable of" or the "10 second d15" and not what engine is best for handling and auto-X:shakehead

Well see, you initially targeted ME personally with when you said:

this is more for silver than anyone, caue you too will prolly nvr break into the 12's with you sohc. sry when you didn't even bother to READ what I stated the goals for my car are several posts ago. :disappoin I mean seriously, don't pipe into stuff you can't hang with till you read ALL posts involved. I did my reserach, you DIDN't, and that's clear as day to anyone reading this. Have fun trying to climb out of the hole you dug for yourself there. ;)

It's so sad when people like you ASSume people want to get power out of their car for drag perposes. Believe me, there are FAR more more better things to do with a car than just that. Not everyone has a 12 second goal in mind. Not everyone is aimming for 200+ hp from their motor. But I'm telling you straight up the plans for my car personally will be MUCH cheaper than a swap would ever get me, and I'm talking a swap with NO OTHER engine mods done to it.

.

First off, if your paying $3500 for a turbo kit (which would be the Edelbrock for that price) then you're getting way ripped off, bottom line there. I can custom build a better setup than that for $1k LESS that'll still be as reliable, and put out the same power figures, 172hp. Secondly, cheaper even if you go with a B18B1? No way! Because first the cost of the motor and swap (at least $2k like you mentioned) PLUS about another $1500 just to bring it up to the 170hp level of the turbo'ed D motor, in N/A form for the B18. You come out at the same, if not spending MORE than you needed to. For one, cams alone will run you at least $800-$900 since you gotta get TWO of them, and you're only gaining 25-30 hp at the most from that if even that much (doubtful). But you're missing the point that people aren't always going for max gains from a motor. Plain and simple, to match a B18B1 to do N/A what a D can do at it's max, will cost you about the same amount of $$$. Only once you surpass that is the B a clear winner. Like I said though, if you're gonna do that, might as well swap to an H first thing as you're already at 200hp in STOCK form off the bat, and for a LESS cost than getting a B18 swap and building it to the H22's 200hp point.
OK I see your point about the turbo kit price...but-
You don't need to spend that 1500 to bring the B18B1 up to 170 hp. The only reason to swap to a B1 is to turbo. If you are going N/A then you are going to want VTEC.
The stock cams on a B18B1 are excellent for spooling the turbo. BTW, aftermarket cams are 400/pair-not 900.
I wouldn't swap for an H, they need built before you turbo them too much.
OK, I'll sum it up here-The best HP per dollar would be a B18B1 swap with turbo running 12 PSI-you would make 275 WHP and spend 8K MAX. Compare that to a D16Z6, built and turboing 18-20 PSI you are going to make about the same HP-275 WHP. But the B hasn't even been built yet, so there is much more potential. And like mentioned before, the D16 will have less torque, so even if it makes the same HP the B will still smoke it.

hey i have a great idea why dont we move are arguments to a diff post and get back to the kid with the original post :thinkerg:

why do you people keep on twisting around people's post into your own. i was simply asking why i am not really feeling the vtec and now it's a discussion about swaps. i would like to thank everyone who answered my question. and to the rest please stop the pointless arguing.

ok just to get myself out of the preverbial 'hole', i read every single one of your post and you say nothing about handling or auto-x, (except for when you were talkin to me, the closest you came to that was sayin that the b-series swap wasn't in your goal because of budget. so plz correct me incase i've missed something.

http://www.digitalstar.com/dirty91crx/smallImages/TN69560.JPG http://www.digitalstar.com/dirty91crx/images/68240.JPG http://www.digitalstar.com/dirty91crx/SmallImages/TN76380.JPG this is for you guys who say d series is expensive to gain hp out of.....d15b2 total cost of build.....$1g including the zex kit. i have no timeslip while on the bottle as it was recently aquired and i have yet to make a pass on it. and i do agree somewhere i saw a post up there about turbo on a d for under $1g.....i did one for $400. anything is possible for any angine givin you have the money....or you have the resources to build it. as for me....i work at a machine shop. i have the resources to build. also i have acces to a cad program, even furthering my ability to create designes to specifically up the power on the engine. im not gonna argue the fact that either d or b or h is a better motor or a worse for that matter. i myself have owned a b16 as well as an ls/vtec. my thoughts over this all. i would rather have a crv/vtec under my hood but i have been doing my best to either keep up or beat the oh so beautifull b series motors with the single. even though it seems like this build costed not much which it didnt, i did have to spend long hours designing items to maximise the potential of the motor the cheapest way possible as machine shops dont pay much to keep up with a house and my car at the same time. i also noticed womone comented on reliability at a higher hp figure....i totaly agree. 200whp out of a b series definatly will not need the maintenance like my d will need. every weekend i look over my car making sure everything is in the correct working order. it is becoming a pain to do so. but i will not switch to a bseries until i can affor either a crv/vtec or another ls/vtec. on another note how do you guys feel about the crv/vtec? i have never personaly been able to sit in the driver seat of one let alone see one. ive heard good thing about them thats why im considering the swap. can anyone shed some light on this sublect for me? as far as the origional post.....you would be able to feel the vtec kick in but very slightly......its not much of a switch over like the b series switch over is concerned. if you upgrade to a larger cam profile you will be able to feel vtec just a tad bit more. but like everyone has been saying its not gonna feel like a rocket or anything like that.

Okay, since there are several posts in here I want to make commnets to or respond to, I will not quote anyone. First off, to the person that started the post and told us to stop our bickering, as well as the person that told us to answer his question. First, the question was answered long ago. Second, sometimes threads seem to veer off-path when someone says something another person disagree's with. Then? Woosh, the bickering and arguements start, so thats how it went here. Sometimes threads get off-topic. I suppose though, that would suck to see it off topic if you were the thread origanator.

Okay, now to the rest. To all the newer people that posted on the D vv B arguement, Silver, me, and Jcrx all pretty much started the obivous. What engine is BEST really depends on your goals. High output is not always the goal. For Silver, he Auto-x's, so, correct me if I am wrong here buddy, but a swap would first off throw him into another class. Right there, building a D to the appropreate levels for his auto-x'ing is a much better idea. Second, he's not trying for massive HP output, so this wont run him cost wise with the D into the stratosphere. For him, the D is a good choice for a motor. Now for me? Hell no. I want 300WHP, I want Low-end torque, I want a boosted motor. The B18B1 offers me, A) best low end torque of any B or D. B)Ability to handle up to 12psi on stock internals, plus is a very turbo friendly motor, on my way to the finished build, C) the LS tranny is great for FI. I can go on, but I'll stop. Now see, the best motor for Silver is NOT the best motor for me, mine would be a nightmare for him. But to me, I don't want his motor at all. Doesn't fit my goals in any way. For what motor is best, it's all about goals. No one said a B didn't have more potenial for higher output than a D series. We all agree, for high output apps, the B does give you a better starting base. This was about 2 things. A) It is possible to build a fast D series. B) the best motor for you is the one that fits your goals best.
Now as to the B18B1, PWMAN is correct, it is the Best Honda motor to boost stock. The H22 has thin cylinder walls, and requires re-sleeving and closing the deck to run much boost on it. The LS will run gobbs more. Stock internals vs stock internals, the LS is the best engine to boost. It can handle 12PSI, plus the cams are turbo friendly, and the tranny is agrueably the best suited for turbo apps. When buying a Honda motor to boost, the LS is your motor was his point. It costs less than its V-tec B-series berthern, it can handle more boost stock, has a better tranny for FI, good cams for it (non-vtec). And once you build it, it can really throw the power out. It's a great great base motor for a turbo.

My point is, I think we ALL made our points in this discussion. So to the people just coming in. PLEASE READ and understand this. I think WE ARE ALL SICK OF REPEATING OURSELVES!!! We don't need to keep arguing the same crap over and over again!!!:bigthumb:

i have heard that the b20 block has a problem with cracking due the the higher compression if you put a vtec head on them. but if you work at a machine shop it might be worth it. they can be very potent if done correctly cause i have seen a low to mid twelve second crv-tec in an all show car why he did it i still dont know but it was cool. so thats my :2cents:

Yeah the B20 has been known to crack sleeves fairly easily under boost. But if you sleeve it you are good to go :bigthumb:

thanks guys......i only know little about these hybrids but i would sure still like to try it out.