Openly Gay Bishop accepted by Episcopal church

This is a somewhat touchy subject in that it deals not only with morality, but religion at the same time. I myself believe in God and have read the bible, and understand that homosexuality is not something looked at as good by God. However, there are those of you who roam these boards who may be athiest, agnostic or what have you, and I am curious as to your thoughts on this as well. My thought is it's going against God in that a homosexual is being accepted into the church when in all truth, his lifestyle is considered "ungodly" by the bible. However, at the same time, he is preaching the word of God and obviously believes in God very much, or he wouldnt even be in this position would he? At this point I would like to say that Im not at all against people who are homosexual, just in case someone might try to pull that on me and call me homophobic. Im basically posing the question, if this man is preaching Gods word, and is devoting his life to it, does it matter that he's a homosexual?

I'm with you, i don't believe it to be right but whatever.

he believes in god, i think thats all that really matters. However, that is just my:2cents:

I don't think there is any grey area on the matter here, I don't think the man should be allowed to be a bishop in the church and openly homosexual.
I don't have anything against homosexual people so long as they aren't trying to force the issue in my face, but I do have a problem with the church setting this precedent.
The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is morally incorrect, so how can the same person be openly homosexual AND tell me to live my life according to the 'Word of God'?

:werd:

Originally posted by freakray
I don't think there is any grey area on the matter here, I don't think the man should be allowed to be a bishop in the church and openly homosexual.
I don't have anything against homosexual people so long as they aren't trying to force the issue in my face, but I do have a problem with the church setting this precedent.
The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is morally incorrect, so how can the same person be openly homosexual AND tell me to live my life according to the 'Word of God'? :1: :1: :iagree:

Originally posted by freakray
The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is morally incorrect, so how can the same person be openly homosexual AND tell me to live my life according to the 'Word of God'?

I have the same issue. The fact he waited till the day before the vote to announce this little "gem" indicates to me that he has an agenda to push in the church.













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Originally posted by YogsVR4


I have the same issue. The fact he waited till the day before the vote to announce this little "gem" indicates to me that he has an agenda to push in the church.

Seems more political than Godly, if you know what I mean....

The fact that he has children also indicates that he 'was' straight previously too which makes it even more sickening and wrong to me.

I would love to hear his sermon on 'Sodom and Gomorrah' now....

Nothing against homosexuals here, but with all the problems this particular religious body is going through, I think it's a poor decision and is just more negativity to deal with.

The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is morally incorrect, so how can the same person be openly homosexual AND tell me to live my life according to the 'Word of God'?

If you think about it, almost nobody practices everything he or she preaches, this issue is just a more dividing one.

The simple and sad fact is that if he DIDN'T get hired he would have sued the hell out of the Church, claiming emotional distress, discrimination, what else, social prejudice, really whatever he could get his hands on, UNTIL they either gave him lots of money to shut up, OR hired him.

It's a lose, lose, situation. They either hire him and know that it's "wrong" and it goes against everything the Bible says. Or they give him lots of money and then the Church looks like a bunch of Homophobes that think if they give enough money to their problem, that it'll go away.

You now know that this isn't the last case of a homosexual man or woman to try and become a minister, preist what have you. This is only the beginning. And if they have two people that have the same credentials and one is gay, and the other one isn't, and they hire the heterosexual one the media will be ALL over that.

Originally posted by sidewinder69
The simple and sad fact is that if he DIDN'T get hired he would have sued the hell out of the Church, claiming emotional distress, discrimination, what else, social prejudice, really whatever he could get his hands on, UNTIL they either gave him lots of money to shut up, OR hired him.

It's a lose, lose, situation. They either hire him and know that it's "wrong" and it goes against everything the Bible says. Or they give him lots of money and then the Church looks like a bunch of Homophobes that think if they give enough money to their problem, that it'll go away.

You now know that this isn't the last case of a homosexual man or woman to try and become a minister, preist what have you. This is only the beginning. And if they have two people that have the same credentials and one is gay, and the other one isn't, and they hire the heterosexual one the media will be ALL over that.

A sad but true point.

WTF is the US coming to? A homosexual bishop!! Morals are degrading in America and it is pissing me off! That is such hypocracy and it is just absolutely ridiculous. I wonder what kinds of confessions he likes to hear..... :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Pick
I wonder what kinds of confessions he likes to hear..... :rolleyes:

I wasn't aware the Episcopal Church did the confession thing....
My Uncle was a 'High Priest' in the Anglican Church and they didn't hear confession.....

Originally posted by freakray


I wasn't aware the Episcopal Church did the confession thing....
My Uncle was a 'High Priest' in the Anglican Church and they didn't hear confession.....

Interesting.....I was under the impression they did.....:confused:

Originally posted by Pick


Interesting.....I was under the impression they did.....:confused:

Like I said, I was under the opposite impression, I may be wrong.

I could imagine it though....

Confessor: Forgive me Father, I have sinned.
Bishop: Tell me your sins my child
C: I lay with another man
B: What are you doing on Friday, would you like to get together?




EDIT: typo

Originally posted by freakray


Like I said, I was under the opposite impression, I may be wrong.

I could imagine it though....

Confessor: Forgive me Father, I have sinned.
Bishop: Tell me your sins my child
C: I lay with another man
B: What are you doing on Firday, would you like to get together?

You joke now, but it may just happen...

I agree with everything said thus far. :smile:

I can't imagine trying to justify to God that the homosexual lifestyle is correct, when he has stated it isn't.

I certainly didn't make the rules, or write any part of the Bible. I just try to read and follow the instructions. I'm not homophobic. And I'm not perfect.

But, for a CHURCH to elect a member like this?! It ain't supposed to be a democracy, folks! This makes no sense. There is an agenda here.

I'm glad I won't have to answer for this one! :eek7:

Here are my views on this, I have done much thinking about it before coming to the conclusion I have come to.

As Christians we are called to love first. That is our #1 commandment. It is not in our right to judge -- and to hate anyone for any reason is against what God commands of us. As Christians we all believe that we sin, and that we all fall short of the glory of God. Christians are called to repent of their sin. To accept God's word, to realize their inadequacies and to REPENT. This is where the problem comes in with the gay Bishop. Farbeit for me, or anyother earthly life, to judge him. That day will come for him, just as it will for the rest of us. The problem is his ADVOCATION of a life of sin. He does not preach that homosexuality is wrong, he doesn't believe it to be a sin. How can a spiritual leader be appointed who will lead CONTRARY to God's plan? This is where the Episcopalian church fails... it is their belief that the Bible is not the final authority. The church believes that God speaks and acts through the Holy Spirit and will lead them in the direction in which they are to go. This suggests that God can "change with the times." How convenient. Any time we sin now, we re-make the rules to fit our lifestyle. This is dangerous, dangerous ground.

In the Christian faith, all sin is equally evil in God's eyes. Murder, in that case, is on the same level as making love to your girlfriend. Therefore, the Episcopalian Bishop is preaching what is evil -- simple as that. For a Christian, the problem lies not in the Bishop's lifestyle, but in his ADVOCATION of it. Having this Bishop lead is NO DIFFERENT than having a preecher encouraging college students to go out, get drunk, and have as much heterosexual sex as they can. It is even no different than a preecher encouraging you to kill your neighbor if he pisses you off. Sin is sin, plain and simple.

The ONLY reason why this has been accepted is because of the movement of tolerance and "political correctness" in America. Society still rejects murderers, so no one will ever be pulling for one to be a preecher even though to God, it would be the same thing. We have decided to become so tolerant, that tolerating sin has become a greater virtue in our society than hating it. Do not hate people, but hate this sin. Too often, we no longer do.

The line of acceptibility in society just took another big move with this ordainment... but not to God. God is as he was in the beginning, and now, and ever shall be...

The whole thing is downright silly. With my engineering mind, the common logic that floats through my mind no matter what I'm thinking about is: If it works, it works.
The only problem I can possibly think about with him in this position, is that he'll appear to be hypocritical.
Besides the only thing that seperates him from other bishops, is that he's out of the closet. J/K

Originally posted by 2strokebloke
The whole thing is downright silly. With my engineering mind, the common logic that floats through my mind no matter what I'm thinking about is: If it works, it works.
The only problem I can possibly think about with him in this position, is that he'll appear to be hypocritical.
Besides the only thing that seperates him from other bishops, is that he's out of the closet. J/K

The problem is... a life of sin without repentance doesn't "work".......... and that's exactly what he is advocating.

Are you suggesting that all other bishops have never sinned? It doesn't matter what the sin is, it's still a sin - and I know that they have all sinned for some reason or another at one time or another. The problem is trivial. Except perhaps for murder or rape, if he had any other problem - people would be more accepting of him as a bishop.

the problem is that he's still in sin and practicing it openly....as far as admitting he's gay and doesn't care what the bible says....

Originally posted by BLU CIVIC
the problem is that he's still in sin and practicing it openly....as far as admitting he's gay and doesn't care what the bible says....

He only said it so he could put forth his agenda. It was a political statement.













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Originally posted by YogsVR4


He only said it so he could put forth his agenda. It was a political statement.

REALLY....didn't know that....politics are becoming so retarded:rolleyes:

Originally posted by 2strokebloke
Are you suggesting that all other bishops have never sinned? It doesn't matter what the sin is, it's still a sin - and I know that they have all sinned for some reason or another at one time or another. The problem is trivial. Except perhaps for murder or rape, if he had any other problem - people would be more accepting of him as a bishop.

Read my original post:

Originally posted by Jay2002WS6
As Christians we are called to love first. That is our #1 commandment. It is not in our right to judge -- and to hate anyone for any reason is against what God commands of us. As Christians we all believe that we sin, and that we all fall short of the glory of God. Christians are called to repent of their sin. To accept God's word, to realize their inadequacies and to REPENT. This is where the problem comes in with the gay Bishop. Farbeit for me, or anyother earthly life, to judge him. That day will come for him, just as it will for the rest of us. The problem is his ADVOCATION of a life of sin. He does not preach that homosexuality is wrong, he doesn't believe it to be a sin. How can a spiritual leader be appointed who will lead CONTRARY to God's plan? This is where the Episcopalian church fails... it is their belief that the Bible is not the final authority. The church believes that God speaks and acts through the Holy Spirit and will lead them in the direction in which they are to go. This suggests that God can "change with the times." How convenient. Any time we sin now, we re-make the rules to fit our lifestyle. This is dangerous, dangerous ground.

In the Christian faith, all sin is equally evil in God's eyes. Murder, in that case, is on the same level as making love to your girlfriend. Therefore, the Episcopalian Bishop is preaching what is evil -- simple as that. For a Christian, the problem lies not in the Bishop's lifestyle, but in his ADVOCATION of it. Having this Bishop lead is NO DIFFERENT than having a preecher encouraging college students to go out, get drunk, and have as much heterosexual sex as they can. It is even no different than a preecher encouraging you to kill your neighbor if he pisses you off. Sin is sin, plain and simple.

The ONLY reason why this has been accepted is because of the movement of tolerance and "political correctness" in America. Society still rejects murderers, so no one will ever be pulling for one to be a preecher even though to God, it would be the same thing. We have decided to become so tolerant, that tolerating sin has become a greater virtue in our society than hating it. Do not hate people, but hate this sin. Too often, we no longer do.

The line of acceptibility in society just took another big move with this ordainment... but not to God. God is as he was in the beginning, and now, and ever shall be...

That should clear up what I am tryign to say to you. That is why this doesn't "work"

Originally posted by BLU CIVIC


REALLY....didn't know that....politics are becoming so retarded:rolleyes:

BLU CIVIC ---> Is that who I think it is in your sig?

Originally posted by Jay2002WS6


BLU CIVIC ---> Is that who I think it is in your sig?

ofcourse:grinyes: :naughty:

So you think that this bishop is going to be telling people that they should be gay?
Don't know what the logic is in that, afterall if he was guilty of adultery - do you think he'd be telling people that they should go out and do the same things he's done? - I think not.

Originally posted by 2strokebloke
So you think that this bishop is going to be telling people that they should be gay?
Don't know what the logic is in that, afterall if he was guilty of adultery - do you think he'd be telling people that they should go out and do the same things he's done? - I think not.


To answer your first question: He accepts and advocates homosexuality. Since any sex outside of marriage is adultery, then yes, he advocates that as well. These are two sins that he believes to be acceptable to God.

I don't think he would tell a straight person to be gay, no... but his acceptance of homosexuality is not something a church should be preaching.

Originally posted by BLU CIVIC


ofcourse:grinyes: :naughty:


That is HOT!

What is that from?

What can I say? If it works, it works. We'll wait and see what happens, churches are already so filled with hypocrites, that personally don't think that another one is going to do much harm - after all if he wasn't openly gay, probably nobody would've had a problem with him (other than God, if that figure does in fact exist - and maybe Santa Clause)

Originally posted by Jay2002WS6



That is HOT!

What is that from?

I THINK THAT MOVIE CROSSROADS THAT SHE WAS IN:confused:

Originally posted by 2strokebloke
What can I say? If it works, it works. We'll wait and see what happens, churches are already so filled with hypocrites, that personally don't think that another one is going to do much harm - after all if he wasn't openly gay, probably nobody would've had a problem with him (other than God, if that figure does in fact exist - and maybe Santa Clause)


I don't really understand where you get the idea that this "works."

Would a heavily drinking bartender "work" as a leader in an AA class?

If what you say about the church already being full of hypocrites is true... then adding another one will certainly do more harm than good... but adding one as a PREACHER? He's teaching them astray from God's plan. Like a kindergarten teacher telling her students 2+2 = 5.

Originally posted by Jay2002WS6



To answer your first question: He accepts and advocates homosexuality. Since any sex outside of marriage is adultery, then yes, he advocates that as well. These are two sins that he believes to be acceptable to God.

I don't think he would tell a straight person to be gay, no... but his acceptance of homosexuality is not something a church should be preaching.

yea, god forbid we start accepting people for who they are and not trying to change them. Isn't there enough hate and intoerence in this world would out a church adding to it

Originally posted by Marc04


yea, god forbid we start accepting people for who they are and not trying to change them. Isn't there enough hate and intoerence in this world would out a church adding to it
What are you saying? You agree with it?

Originally posted by Pick

What are you saying? You agree with it?

sounds like sarcasm...could be wrong:dunno:

Originally posted by Jay2002WS6



I don't really understand where you get the idea that this "works."

Would a heavily drinking bartender "work" as a leader in an AA class?

If what you say about the church already being full of hypocrites is true... then adding another one will certainly do more harm than good... but adding one as a PREACHER? He's teaching them astray from God's plan. Like a kindergarten teacher telling her students 2+2 = 5.

I don't know, think about that "scared straight" program (hey that name may very well work here too!) you know the one where convicts scream at kids telling them not to go to jail, or they'll end up in jail screaming at kids?
He could say: Don't be gay, or you could end up in "Hell", like I will if I don't repent for my "sins"

who knows, it just might "work" :iceslolan

Originally posted by Marc04


yea, god forbid we start accepting people for who they are and not trying to change them. Isn't there enough hate and intoerence in this world would out a church adding to it


You understood absolutely ZERO of my first post to come back with that statement.

Originally posted by 2strokebloke


I don't know, think about that "scared straight" program (hey that name may very well work here too!) you know the one where convicts scream at kids telling them not to go to jail, or they'll end up in jail screaming at kids?
He could say: Don't be gay, or you could end up in "Hell", like I will if I don't repent for my "sins"

who knows, it just might "work" :iceslolan


I guess I sorta see where you are coming from there... but realize that isn't how this guy stands. He stands that homosexuality is OK and should be acceptable. He is far from the stance that he will go to hell for it.

Originally posted by BLU CIVIC


I THINK THAT MOVIE CROSSROADS THAT SHE WAS IN:confused:

Well, dude I hope you don't mind, but I stole it for my avatar on another site :)

:tongue: nah i don't care....i do it all the time:iceslolan