ls/vtec or CRVtec

i was just wondering on everybody's opinions on what i should do. Should i go ls/vtec, or should i go CRVtec. i like the ls because it was taller gears, which is more turbo friendly. i like the crvtec because of the massive amounts of torque. i am so confused on what to do. any feedback would be great. by the way, this will probably go into a civic hatch. any feedback on which car to put it into would be nice also. thanks guys.

i have a built lsvtec and i must say i love it. but if i did it again i wouldt definitely go with crvtec. the displacement makes a big difference on the available amount of hp and torque you can achieve especially when you make it an NA motor. go crvtec man. then boost that. with a built block you could clear 400hp easy. if you go NA 200hp at the wheels is not very hard to get.

you can bolt the CRVTEC to the LS tranny as well. and yeah, if you are gonna do it, why not go CRVTEC. 2.0 vs 1.8?

2.0!

how much do you guys think it would be around for a built b20. with bout 8.5:1 cr pistons. probably round 3500 or something right? how much would the ls tranny cost as well?

are you putting it into a civic hatch or your integra or what?

If you are going to put it in the hatch(4th gen), Id reccomend getting a complete B16A cable swap, 1500 bucks at hmotors

hatch (5th gen)
Id get a complete B16A hydro swap from hmotors for 2350.

for your integra then you just should collect parts, cuz it is already b series so you got a tranny, mouns, axles, etc..

and then along with the swap you should buy the B20B for 750.

then you can sell the B16A short block and youll have a few other parts to sell andmake money bacjk like the B20 intake manifold/rail/injectors/sensors, etc..

cuz I was gonna swap in a B20B and go no vtec at first, and now looking back I wish I would have bought the B18b swap and the B20 longblock, then I would have had every part needeed and gauranteed. instead I bought just the longblock and then searched for every other part needed, ended up spending more and got a couple bad parts and then never got it in the car.

I was originaly going to go crvtec until I figured it would have to be "built right" in order to be very reliable. It would've been going into a daily driven car so any hint of unreliability is bad. I might be getting a GSR block (b18c) and bore that out 84mm and there you have a 2.0 block with oil squirters,better r/s ratio and can withstand a higher redline easier so it should have less problems. Thats my plan but my plans tend to change quite frequently:biggrin: .

even the gsr's r/s ratio isnt great but thats besides the point. im so sick and tired of hearing that lsvtec and crvtec are unreliable. you know why people say that? first of all you have inexperienced people trying to build a motor. when that happens of course it will not be reliable but only due to error of the mechanic. but thats not even the biggest problem with this setup. its overrevving. you have idiots out there who do the lsvtec or crvtec and think they can rev to 9500rpm and have no problems because their head is built. YOUR HEAD IS NOT THE ONLY THING THAT HAS MOVING PARTS IN IT!! when you do the frankenstein setup you have to realize that the block was not designed to withstand 9000rpm on either ls or b20 blocks. if youre not a moron you should have no problem with lsvtec or crvtec and be very happy with it. dont overrev and that setup will last as long as any other vtec engine. i mean would you rev a b18c to 11rpm? no. why? it wasnt designed to handle that. so why do it to an ls block?

i cant tell you how many people get so pissed off because they spent top dollar on their type r motor or gsr motor and i still smoke them with an engine that cost 1k-2k less then what they spent.

and people really need to stop talking about r/s ratio so damn much. do you spend the majority of your time at 9000rpm? i really dont think so. if you dont then you have no reason to be concerned with the r/s ratio. most of the time i dont have to get past 7500rpm to beat someone else and if i do go over that the most i take it to is 8500. every once in a while will not hurt the engine. just keep up with oil changes and you should have no problems.

so anything else?

To whoever it was who said that a Turbo'd CRVtec should be able to clear 400hp. A LSVtec turbo'd can as well. Robbie Potts in San Deigo has a 500 HP Turbo'd LS-VTec integra (he has a full interior, nothing stripped). He built it himself, including the turbo system and all. He did it over 3 years ago too, way before the masses had discovered the LS-Vtec and CR-VTec. It is still running. Thats a 500HP LS-VTec Turbo (B16A head, LS block) He did some very creative things. He built the Turbo manifold himself using a pulse width thoery based on firing order to further help spool his turbo (turbonetics turbo, 60-1 compressor with a stage 5 exhaust wheel and 78 a/r housing, spearco intercooler). He uses a Federal Mogul Speed Pro stand alone fuel computer and 1,000 cc injectors, a setup that was used by Lisa Kubo and Papadakis. Since you generally generate more power if the wastegate dumps straight into the atmosphere, but it' very loud, he did it anyway, but silenced it using a 4-stroke Yoshimura motorcycle exhaust. Of course, he also rebuilt the internals for massive boost, etc . The point is, you CAN hit 500HP with a LS-VTec Turbo, so you don't need to go CRV to acheive lots of speed and power.

on the hondata website there is a turbo pushing 674WHP, but it is on 29 pounds of boost. so yeah, I know it can make power, but if he was to go NA id definitely go with the B20. and I only mentioned to r/s ratio to say not to rev it, I mean I dont see how it could be that unreliable like everyone says, the oil lines theres nothing that could go wrong but leaks, so if you use the teflon and tighten the fittings you wont have a problem. the plugging of the old oil supply is a sinch as well, simple tapping of threads. the only thing I can think could caus a problem is the dowel pin, but if you drilled it a bit of center, wouldnt the head bolts/ other dowel not lign up anyways. so it seems to me, the only thing you can mess up, if you did, youd know before you ever put the engine together and dropped it in the car.

and your right the GSR is only 1.58, but has the oil squirters which is why it can rev.

and saiko, when you bore the GSR to 84mm, I am pretty sure you lose the squirters, but I have no first hand experience of this so I dont know for sure, but there might be a way to keep them. but if yu wanted to do that, get the B16 and bore it to 85 and get some B20 .40 oversized pistons, then you have a perfect r/s ratio and a large bore, still wouldnt be 2.0 though i dont think, but then you can rev pretty good, especially if you can find how to keep the oil squirters. I dont know if you can trust my math but youd have a 1737cc and the perfect r/s ratio

yah i know the lsvtec could achieve that much power as well but i figured it would be easier to get there with larger displacement hence the crvtec. i actually want to do a turbo setup now on mine but im running way too high compression for that. i figure maybe in a little while ill sell my motor, drop in an ls and turbo it. but thats not anytime soon.

how built is your crvtec and what cr you running, been to the track with it?

how is the weight difference between the two blocks? would there be an oversteer issue with any as there is with a h22a swap?

the B20 should be about the same, the block I think should actually be lighter cuz it is the same thing with more material removed to make a 84mm bore vs. a 81 mm bore, but then it has larger pistons so it adds weight there, so probably dang close to equal. so no, no "understeer" problems. oversteer is the rear kicking out, extra weight in the front creates a plow. now on cars where the engine sits mostly in front of the front axle, it kinda lifts up on the rear so then its easier to kick out the rear, especially if its rear driven. but the hondas engine/transmissions majority of weight is just about right above the wheels.

i think you asked how built mine was? its not anything special. the head is stock GSR, its a fresh b18b block with CTR pistons. all the bolt-ons, cam gears, FPR, and a b16 tranny with stock clutch. right now its got a double thick head gasket to make it run fine on 91 pump gas because my only tuning is a mugen chipped p28 ecu. once i get my tuning done i will use the stock head gasket. its not maxed out at all yet and no i havent been to the track. anything else?

Originally posted by 94tegRS
and saiko, when you bore the GSR to 84mm, I am pretty sure you lose the squirters, but I have no first hand experience of this so I dont know for sure, but there might be a way to keep them. but if yu wanted to do that, get the B16 and bore it to 85 and get some B20 .40 oversized pistons, then you have a perfect r/s ratio and a large bore, still wouldnt be 2.0 though i dont think, but then you can rev pretty good, especially if you can find how to keep the oil squirters. I dont know if you can trust my math but youd have a 1737cc and the perfect r/s ratio

Cool....thanks for the info!:smile:

I cant remember off the top of my head, whats the cr with the CTR pistons?

I got JE 11:1 for when i finally start building mine. and Im gonna fully build it but Ill basically have what you got at first, what other kinda cars have you driven hat youd compare the experience too? the fasest car ive ever owned was probably a high 15 second car(my teg) the only other 2 that I think compared were my datsun 280ZX(way faster up top though) and maybe my truck (1966, 400ci, 4 speed, headers and dual 3" is all it had, but man, after that Ive been missing V8 power for almost 4 years, but not the gas mileage so I never went back)

the compression of the CTR engine is 10.7:1. but i have a gsr head which raises the compression even more. my compression right now is near 11:1 because of the head gasket but without it i should be at about 11.5:1. you want to compare the experience to another car? well it feels like my cousins bmw 540 till about 80mph. then the v8 takes over. it will feel quite a bit faster then your teg now and if built correctly you should be hitting 14's with good amount of mods. is it oging to be in your teg or what? cause if its in the teg it will be harder to get 14's cause of the weight.

as soon as I gewt my teg then its ogin in there, NA B20 at first running off the P75. but then when I sell my hatch Im gonna pour all the cash into the engine and build a "sleeper" but as soon as I can afford the style mods Ill go for those too. but it shouldnt be too hard when I sell the hatch to hit 14's :tongue:

B20b, JE 11:1 (JE said 11.3:1 w/ b16 head), crower rods, B16A head, P72 ECU, hondata s200, crower stage 2 cams, dual valve springs, tit retainers, P&P head, skunk 2 manifold, AEM V2 CAI, DC ceramic 4-1 one peice, AEM cam gears, AEM pulleys, UR light crank pulley, AEM rail, B&M 255 LPH fuel pump, B&M fuel flow modifier, 440cc injectors, edlebrock 69mm TB, NX 50 shot wet kit, maybe pop in the 75's every once in awhile but i doubt it.

I was hoping to hit high 12's with good tuning cuz I guess built crvtecs push crx's to mid 12's so I was thinking maybe on the bottle it would make up for some 700 pounds or so.