classic argument

Hey I'm startin this thread to be an open discussion about import vs domestic... lots of other forums i post in start this thread and it dies out really quickly but hopefully that won't happen here. personally i'm an import enthusiast but many of my friends believe that anything with a V8 is absolutely unbeatable :bs: while other friends of mine believe that "if it spools it rules" :wtf: so enjoy your posting :cheers:

:repost:

:useless:

domestic obviously. I don't think theres really going to be too much of an argument in this forum. supposedly if your here you love musclecars right?

Personally, I think they all have thier own place. There isn't much that can be the sound of a lopey V-8, but to me it depends on weather you want a new car or an older one. One thing to remember though that the worlds current top cars come from Europe, which make them imports.

i didn't vote, because i own a domestic musclecar, and love it, but there are imports i would trade it for in a heartbeat (the amg e55 is imported from germany, right :biggrin: ) and i know there are imports that are faster than me, and if i had a good job, i'd be faster than them.

though domestics hold the base power advantages don't forget that there are other factors to what makes a car better than the other.. a minor concern would be gas mileage as well as basic stock features for luxury as well as power... lots of imported cars come with the ability to be quick cars but the question is.. what's better? a quick car or a fast car.. i know that we all know there is a clear difference between what is quick and what is fast.... generally speaking domestic cars tend to be heavier making them less "quick" but in the american mind (trust me i'm an american) power is everything... thus the reason for the 350 Big Block and other such engines that are HUGE but put out a shit load of power... alot of the more popular imports are inline 4s with light body weight... so what does everyone want?? quick... or fast?

I am hung here. I own a classic import thats getting a 93 ford thunderbird SC drive line. The SC has the 3.8 supercharged V-6 :bigthumb:
I have had MANY cars I wish I had kept :banghead: most of them being American muscle. I have had Imports aswell and know that bolth have there up's & down's :dunno:
I LOVE the old school thunder from cars like my old 73 vette. The kind of deal where you set off car alarms @ idle :devil: @ the same time the 8 MPG was about to kill me with the cost of gas. :bloated:
Now I was going with the same motor set up as the vette for my Z. Then I started thinking and looking around. :sly: and saw that there was almost NO ONE going with new fuel injected motor & trans combos.
Sure theres the streetrod guys doing the vette motor set-ups. But thats the about it. Dont hurt your self there boys. I rember when it was about doing something OTHER then what the other guy had :chair:
Now I have a supercharged intercooled V-6 motor with trans and rearend thats putting down around 300hp @ 22 MPG :bananasmi And all for under a grand. :eek:
What I am getting at here is I feel people need to start opening there eyes and look at what is sitting out there for power. DO SOME THING NEW. Why all this import:twak: domestic BS anyway? WE ALL LOVE HP.

Not really an arguement in this forum. Having owned both, both have their place in an enthusiast's world. However, the simple fact is this: if you go to a drag strip, it is the domestics that dominate. If you race a road course, the imports dominate. Really, it is all about whether you prefer going really fast in a straight line, or through the curves.

Originally posted by trevolutionist
350 Big Block



350's are still considered Small Blocks.

Unless you're speaking of a Pontiac 350 from back in the day. It had the size of a big block but not the cubic inches. Pontiac was weird back then. :bloated:

the 350's a small??? :eek7: that's news to me.... thanks:bigthumb:

Yeah, a 350 is a puny small block compared to a 454 or a 632. In America, size matters.

Originally posted by RedNeck383


Unless you're speaking of a Pontiac 350 from back in the day. It had the size of a big block but not the cubic inches.

The Pontiac blocks were in between the size of a SB and BB.

Originally posted by RedNeck383


Pontiac was weird back then. :bloated:

Not weird, innovative .:cool:

It's still odd to see a 350 Pontiac have the appearance of a big block... you'd think by looking at it that it'd be a bigger motor.


I dont know about innovative...what was with the styling on the '69 Firebird?

Although the Fiero was a bitchin car. I appreciate the hell out of those.

Here's why they were innovative: Pontiac 400 and SBC 400 share the same internal dimentions yet the SBC 400 came out many years after (I think it was 75-76) If you look through the GMPP catalog you'll see intakes for SBC that are raised and require a valley pan, edlebrock recently relased that "air gap" manifold. Pontiac had these on their factory motors. Anyway, I agree with you on the 69 firebirds styling. It is kind of ugly at first, it grows on you.

Originally posted by RedNeck383

I dont know about innovative...what was with the styling on the '69 Firebird?


That was a great looking car!

Originally posted by ugly kid jon


That was a great looking car!

Compared to the 67-68 its so-so IMO.

call me crazy but based on looks id take the firebird. camaros classic cool but the birds classic, cool, and mean as hell

venom800R,:bigthumb:

People are always complaining that "muscle cars are crap because they dont have the technology or gas mileage that imports do." YOU DON'T BUY A MUSCLE CAR FOR THE TECHNOLOGY OR THE GAS MILEAGE!! You buy a muscle car because it's fast, and because it's cool. If you can afford to make one a daily driver than you are one rich mofo. People dont realize that there are American cars with good technology and good gas mileage, the classics are our weekend machines. Domestic rocks :ylsuper:

Well, as far as Imports vs. Domestics go, I like them both. Both have pros, and both have cons. I guess Im weird. :p

I never really liked the first generation of Firebirds. To me they were nothing more then mini-GTO's. No real unique styling to them at all. The Trans Am didn't look too bad the white with skinny blue stripes really stands out, however the 69 Trans Am is the one that probably looks the most like a "mini-GTO".

Trev I don't really see where you can say these Import vs Domestic threads die out when you post them. Everytime I see that title thats like an automatic 8 pages of throat-ripping arguments.

350's are still considered Small Blocks.

Unless you're speaking of a Pontiac 350 from back in the day. It had the size of a big block but not the cubic inches. Pontiac was weird back then. :bloated:

Pontiac is always wierd, back then, right now, always will be too. :screwy:

V8 - :grinyes:
I6 - :disappoin

I'd rather set off car alarms at idle and slow down for corners then have the opposite, and something that sounds like thunder rather then something sounding like it's about to chunder :evillol:

Chevy doesn't exactly have their head on straight either. They replace my S-10 Xtreme that sells like hotcakes with a 5-CYLINDER mid-size truck called the Colorado. Yes its a much more powerful motor but wtf....5-cylinder, thats just something you don't see Chevy do.

People are always complaining that "muscle cars are crap because they dont have the technology or gas mileage that imports do." YOU DON'T BUY A MUSCLE CAR FOR THE TECHNOLOGY OR THE GAS MILEAGE!! You buy a muscle car because it's fast, and because it's cool

hell yea man! that's what i've been telling people for years. musclecars are all about being raw and cool. fuck technology! I never liked it anyway.

People are always complaining that "muscle cars are crap because they dont have the technology or gas mileage that imports do."

I've yet to run into anybody like this, and I don't want to. What I'll say to them is "Gas mileage dosen't matter, it is all about opperating cost. I'll bet you that my Firebird is cheaper over the years than your Honda, Mitsu, ect."

Technology just means there are more things to break.

A 5 cylinder Chevy? What is this madness!

It makes either 220hp and 225 lbs of torque. Honestly its a waste of time when they have an I6 making 275 hp thats already in production. Then again maybe that engine is too expensive and they don't want to produce any more then they have to.

The new 4-banger thats going in this isn't a waste of time though. The new 4-cylinder has 175 hp and 185 lbs of torque, BIG improvement over the 120 hp in the S-10.

Here is your ugly 5-cylinder truck. Think midget sized Silverado.

http://www.nctd.com/sneakpreviews/04s-colorado-1.jpg

It makes either 220hp and 225 lbs of torque. Honestly its a waste of time when they have an I6 making 275 hp thats already in production. Then again maybe that engine is too expensive and they don't want to produce any more then they have to.


It's very possible that they didn't have room for the I-6, It's a very long engine. I also has had problems with the clyinder sleeves breaking.

Anyway I thought the GTO followed they firebirds styling. I mean look at a 69 firebird and then a 70 GTO.

Anyway I thought the GTO followed they firebirds styling. I mean look at a 69 firebird and then a 70 GTO.

Thats correct.

Anyway I thought the GTO followed they firebirds styling. I mean look at a 69 firebird and then a 70 GTO.
Hence proving the point that it looked like a mini-GTO.

Hence proving the point that it looked like a mini-GTO.

I think the point was to say that if anything the GTO looked like a big firebird, but i see what your trying to say. its not important anyway.

I think the point was to say that if anything the GTO looked like a big firebird, but i see what your trying to say. its not important anyway.

That was the point.

i like all cars, imports, domestics, v8s, turbo 4, or whatever. the new cars these days are all mixed up now that i dont really see them as imports or demestics anymore. like mazdas been with ford for a long time now, and so has other asian/euro companies combined with domestic companies. honda helped chevy build the new v6 so i dont know if you would consider that a domestic. if you wanna look for real import or domestic cars, i think that you would have to go back 10 yrs or more. most of the comapanies are mixed up now combining each others technology.

i like all cars, imports, domestics, v8s, turbo 4, or whatever. the new cars these days are all mixed up now that i dont really see them as imports or demestics anymore. like mazdas been with ford for a long time now, and so has other asian/euro companies combined with domestic companies. honda helped chevy build the new v6 so i dont know if you would consider that a domestic. if you wanna look for real import or domestic cars, i think that you would have to go back 10 yrs or more. most of the comapanies are mixed up now combining each others technology.


True that..... :bigthumb:

I think Chrysler started it back in the early 1980s when they started stuffing Mitsubishi engines in Dodge's and Chrysler products.

Still can't believe Honda is going to sell Saturn (!) its wonderful V6s for their VUE.

of corse i voted domestic .
there two important factors .

THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR CUBIC INCHES & SPEED IS JUST A QUESTION OF MONEY , HOW FAST DO YOU WANT TO GO ?

import guys stick a TON of $$$$$$$$$ just to get to 13-10 seconds in the 1/4 mile .

if i put half of the money into my RUNNER that the import guys do it would be one MEAN ride .

im not saying i dont like the import guys at all i respect them for their love of cars .
but i just dont understand why someone would put MEGA bucks into a car with no chance of a return on 1/2 of what was put into it .

yes in know the same is done with MUSCLE cars , but 90% or the time the return is greater .

Domestic power! Woot!

On the other hand rav440, look at what the import guys pay for their cars. They pay a little over half the $ we would for a Mustang/domestic. More importantly though, look at insurance. A little Civic is going to have nearly no premiums, because usually people simply use them to commute. Get a 18-25 year old that buys a domestic mustang, camaro, firebird, etc...and the insurance bets that you're going to race and probably wreck it. Therefore, imports might require big bucks to get their times down, but they would probably recoup that money after having the car for a few years IMHO.

GOOD POINT Silencer_Nate .

That insurance payment can be a killer. Definitely an advantage for the imports.

i am a domestic type of guy something about a a ton of cubic inchs in a big piee of steel

not kocking the import guy they do some impressive suff with a 4 banger


and for the guys talking about a trans am and a gto. They did have at lot of the same stylings but i think they both stand on there own

i am a domestic type of guy something about a a ton of cubic inchs in a big piee of steel

not knocking the import guy they do some impressive suff with a 4 banger


and for the guys talking about a trans am and a gto. They did have at lot of the same stylings but i think they both stand on there own

Both old school musclecars and new imports have their advantages and disadvantages, but they are two very different types of vehicles- I don't you can't accurately compare them in the same light.

I drove my '72 Firebird for almost ten years as a daily driver. Admittedly, I constantly modified the car in that time and its mpg, driveability, and reliability got worse. Still a very cool car, yes, but not one I'd every want to use everyday. My '95 Accord on the other hand is very smooth, extremely reliable, and gets good mpg- currently my daily driver. Yes, it's gutless compared to my 'Bird, but an entirely different animal. I'm sure the guys that take their Accord and hop it up are fast, but I seriously doubt they could produce the numbers my 'Bird generates without spending at least double what I've spent on that car. And why would I want to ruin a perfectly reliable, economical vehicle just to go a little faster? That's why I've got both.

Geno

Well, you can get a reliable cheap to insure domestic. Not to mention that repairs of domestic cars are typically cheaper. If you compaired the insurance on a Sunfire and a 2 door civic I bet they'd be very close. Same goes for the fast ones I bet rates on a 3000gt-vr4 and a vette of the same year would also be close.

Do you all consider newer cars like the Viper, Corvette, and 04 Mustang muscle cars? The new stang cobra makes 396 hp I believe.
I also read somewhere that the 06 Corvette's hp rating is supposed to be in the 500s :evillol: .
Obviously there's a lot of technology in all of those cars.

I like the ultimate solution to the import/domestic debate; hybrids. Beautifully designed sportscars using raw (and inexpensive) American V8 power.

http://www.europeancarweb.com/features/0205ec_bizzar01_zoom.jpg
http://www.europeancarweb.com/features/0205ec_bizzar02_zoom.jpg
http://www.europeancarweb.com/features/0205ec_bizzar05_zoom.jpg
Like this Iso/Bizzarini Grifo A3L which used either a Chevy 327 or 427. (can you tell it's one of my all time favorites?)

http://www.allsportauto.com/photoautre2/detomaso/mangusta/1969_detomaso_mangusta_09_m.jpg http://www.allsportauto.com/photoautre2/detomaso/pantera/pre_l/1971_detomaso_pantera_pre_l_05_m.jpg

Or the Detomaso Mangusta (above) and Pantera (below) which used Ford 351 Cleveland V8's.

http://home.hiwaay.net/~tjhiggin/hwystar/pg_int.jpg
How about the big Jensen Interceptor with its Chrysler V8 and four-wheel drive?

And of course, the hybrid that needs no introduction.
http://www.sportscarspictures.com/photoautre/ac/cobra/1963_ac_cobra_02_m.jpg

Big inexpensive American power, small beautiful good handling import chassis and bodies. Hybrids are always my vote.

Do you all consider newer cars like the Viper, Corvette, and 04 Mustang muscle cars? The new stang cobra makes 396 hp I believe.
I also read somewhere that the 06 Corvette's hp rating is supposed to be in the 500s :evillol: .
Obviously there's a lot of technology in all of those cars.
The mustang is a muscle/pony car. The corvette is a sports car. The viper is a muscle/supercar.

The mustang is a muscle/pony car. The corvette is a sports car. The viper is a muscle/supercar.

That pretty much sums it up.

i didn't vote, because i own a domestic musclecar, and love it, but there are imports i would trade it for in a heartbeat (the amg e55 is imported from germany, right :biggrin: ) and i know there are imports that are faster than me, and if i had a good job, i'd be faster than them.

When was the last Import run a 4.9@330 MPH in the quarter mile.

Their are cars built in other countries will will go faster at the top end, but you need to think, why trade you peice of American history for a German anything. An American muscle carries a certain prestige in this country, nobody rolls up to a BMW and says hhhmmm I think that will kick my ass, when thay are driving an L-88 Vette, C'Mon give me a break be an American, don't follow the leader, be the leader.