RX7 engine

do u think it would be a good idea to put i rx7 engine into an mr2

i don't think it's possible:confused:

well why the hell not? u could pretty much put any engine in any car if you have the rite supports :feedback:

woah. you've got to be joking. first of all, they're engine mounts. second of all, although you probaly can get one in, the transmission and engine are designed to go in a tottally different way and you'd have to gut the car.

go learn something... look at your mustang engine and trans and look at some front wheel drive 4 cylinder's.... imagine what it'd be like getting that mustand engine in there... whether its a ford contour or honda.

i think the stock turbo 3s-gte is way more reliable and has way more potential than a rotary. Notice how most people with an Rx-7 that want a lot of power usually swap in a supra engine. Cylinder engines are just more reliable at high power and not nearly as delicate. Sure your engine will spool up slower than a rotary and it might have some other downsides, but the gas mileage alone is well worth it imo.

I hate rotaries, but I love the rx-7. Great idea, but since there are piston engines why try to "reinvent the wheel" as some would say...it's already good enoug.

Along with the reliability and probably severe cooling problems from the mr2's engine location you will have mounting troubles and space problems. You'd probly spend over 20k on the swap if you bring it somewhere and it would take months for all the custom work.

Why bother??

there are too many rotary bashings here, u could have just put in the last, "why bother" part

sorry...i just think its good to give a reason rather than add to the people that just say "it's too hard...do another swap that every other person is doing"

you get people trying to be different by doing a swap that they think will be good and getting laughed at every time they go to different forums asking about it. Rotaries are amazing engines...I never said they weren't...they just have an achiles (sp?) heel...

If you can put a rotary engine in a Delorean (http://www.eliseusa.com/rotary.shtml) then i am sure you could put it in a Mr2!!!

im not rotary bashing, but i completely agree with klohiq. i think the 3sgte is way more reliable of an engine. whyd they put the 3sgte in the castrol supra?

dont waste your money man, go thru neishlin motors and get a 3rd gen 3sgte or get a 2.2L block and put the 3sgte head on it if you wanna be different and not just have a 3sgte. you have to think though.. what would make more sense!? keep the rotaries in the rx7s and dont ruin a perfectly good mr2.


...and i dont think itd fit..

yo einstein, why even bother bother spending all that mula and time customizing and making it fit to a two?

Originally posted by jennmr2
whyd they put the 3sgte in the castrol supra?

JGTC cars can use any engine they want as long as they stick to the manufacturer of their car. The 3sgte is much lighter then the 2jzgte and still easily capable of the 500ps limit.
This whole 13b mr2 thing is stupid. Unless you want to try and convert an mr2 to FR then it's pointless to even try. I'm sure you could probably spend $50,000 trying to get a MR 13b mr2. I really don't see how you could sort out the tranny issue....

i think the stock turbo 3s-gte is way more reliable and has way more potential than a rotary. Notice how most people with an Rx-7 that want a lot of power usually swap in a supra engine. Cylinder engines are just more reliable at high power and not nearly as delicate. Sure your engine will spool up slower than a rotary and it might have some other downsides, but the gas mileage alone is well worth it imo.

I hate rotaries, but I love the rx-7. Great idea, but since there are piston engines why try to "reinvent the wheel" as some would say...it's already good enoug.

Along with the reliability and probably severe cooling problems from the mr2's engine location you will have mounting troubles and space problems. You'd probly spend over 20k on the swap if you bring it somewhere and it would take months for all the custom work.

Why bother??

actually, the non-turbo rotaries are very reliable. many people have over 200k on their 1st gens.

"Notice how most people with an Rx-7 that want a lot of power usually swap in a supra engine"
how many people have done that? the only people i know of are the people of SP Engineering.

most rx-7 people who want more power go with a single turbo setup or swap a three rotor mazda cosmo 20b engine in. rotaries are very potent engines and are light as hell, too. that's why the rx-7's have a near perfect weight ratio with the FD having a perfect 50/50 weight distribution. reliability for the rx-7 is all in the tune and maintenance. thats why the people who do it right have over 100k on the clock. true rx-7 enthusiasts stay with rotaries because without it, it wouldnt be an rx-7. RX-7 = Rotary EXperiment 7.

Quote:
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Originally posted by jennmr2
whyd they put the 3sgte in the castrol supra?

they also put it in there to have a closer 50/50 weight distribution.

I've seen a few...I know what you're going to say...no link no proof, but I know of more than one...

If the stock engine can handle reliably at 800+hp then tell me the 2jz isn't worth it. The only reason I see to keep a rotary in an RX7 is to keep it true to it's model and make. 3rotors would cost a lot more than a supra engine I'm sure...let alone you have to import them and they are much more rare than a supra engine.

The 2jz and 3sg will both give the supra a near 50/50 weight distribution I'm pretty sure. Just as an rb26 or 25 will give a 240sx a near 50/50 weight distribution even though it's quite a bit heavier than an sr20, ka24 or ca18 which were all in the car from the factory (under different name plates and not in the US). Most of the weight increase is usually in the transmission which is much closer to the center of the car than the engine so it affects the weight distribution a lot less.

i've been reading online and most rx-7 people say that a total 20b swap will cost about 30g's. it must cost a lot to custom fabricate all that stuff for a 2jz swap.

mkiv supra turbo has a 53/47 front to rear weight distribution and weighs 3,505lbs. so its pretty close, 3sgte will give it a closer 50/50 weight distribution along with a weight reduction.

i dunno about the jdm silvias but the u.s. s14 240 has a 55/45 weight distribution. so if the jdm ones are anything like the u.s. ones, then the rb series engines will throw off the weight distribution a bit more. u.s. s13's have a 52/48 weight distribution so that will throw it off a bit also. i dont have any specs on the jdm cars but im pretty sure they would be similar.

You want to get rid of a realiable 3sgte and put in an unrealiable rotary engine?

Not sure what would be more expensive.... paying to get it in or paying to keep it running.

I have 195,000 miles on my Turbo MR2 at double the OEM HP levels... do you know of any RX7s hitting 200K miles on the original engine?

1st of all the second gen RX-7 turbo engine is capable of well over 300hp at the wheel relibly.

2nd of all im all most 100% positive some one has done it.ill look for it later.


"unrealiable rotary engine"

only when not taken care of.

the 3rd gen had a bad design the rad was too smallas well as the ic

but go singel turbo wrap your down pipe & your good to go with prober mantanice.

Happy

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my first post

[QUOTE=klohiq]i think the stock turbo 3s-gte is way more reliable and has way more potential than a rotary. Notice how most people with an Rx-7 that want a lot of power usually swap in a supra engine.[QUOTE]


hahahahahaha i almost threw up when i read that. 3sgte more reliable? 2jz swap into an rx7 for more power? hahaha. Mr2s shouldnt have forums, can you guys even produce more than 300hp?

If the stock engine can handle reliably at 800+hp then tell me the 2jz isn't worth it. The only reason I see to keep a rotary in an RX7 is to keep it true to it's model and make. 3rotors would cost a lot more than a supra engine I'm sure...let alone you have to import them and they are much more rare than a supra engine.
I had to step in here to correct more ignorant assumptions. Three rotor swaps can be done for less than $10,000 even if they are done right (including rebuilding the engine and having it ported and built up while you're at it, a haltech or microtech, motor mounts, etc.) Following that, upgraded stock twin turbo's can have the engine pushing well over 500hp with equal or greater torque. Supra engines are certainly amazing, but both engines create the same stock power. Three rotor engines mate directly to any RX-7 tranmission after 1986, so there's no custom fabrication in the drivetrain, unless you are going to beef it up. It's easy to see what the better choice would be. As far as rarity goes, almost any engine importer can get you a three rotor. I've seen complete motors go from anywhere between $2500 and $6000, roughly in the same price range of a supra motorset I would assume. Anyone is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm certain a nice J-spec motorset with a 6speed MT would set you back at least $3,500. There is one member on my forum with a 1JZ-GTE in his 2nd gen, it is a very fast car indeed, and I respect it. As far as piston conversions go, V8's are popular. RX-7 engine bays can accomodate a variety of V8 engines, LT's and LS's seem to be the most popular among those conversions, and even they aren't that expensive. The V8's are also respectable for being disgustingly fast, but it's definately not for me. The one thing we all have to remember is "it's your car" and you can do whatever you want with it. Even if you are critisized, all that's important is that you meet your own personal goals.

Please read this before you decide just how unreliable a rotory engine is.

http://travel.howstuffworks.com/rotary-engine5.htm

do you know of any RX7s hitting 200K miles on the original engine?

yes, its not uncommon

You want to get rid of a realiable 3sgte and put in an unrealiable rotary engine?

Not sure what would be more expensive.... paying to get it in or paying to keep it running.

I have 195,000 miles on my Turbo MR2 at double the OEM HP levels... do you know of any RX7s hitting 200K miles on the original engine?

:smile: Sorry had to register and reply to this.

Motor just popped. 212k Original engine/tranny/clutch/brakes.

http://67.160.148.114/public/pineapple/DSCF0012.JPG

ummm the reliability issue applies too all cars you ignorant fools..
reliability all depends on how good the tuning is on the engine. if the tuning is shit, any car will have a shorter lifespan. if tuned right and taken care of well, the car will last 200+k miles. my rx7 is on 180k miles on the original engine. and its running fine with no problems. there's guys who have driven their rx7s for OVER 300k miles on only 1 rebuild.

its funny that as soon as rotary people start posting all the MR2 people stopped. I have always liked the MR2's, I dont see why all the rotary bashing was going on, saying they are so unreliable, and that their power potential isnt as good. Just like the rotary posters before me said, its all in the tuning. Some FC owners I know went out and put a intake, 3" TID, and Turbo back exhaust on with an FCD and blew their motor because they were creeping, thats poor tuning, the 13B can be just as reliable as a 3sgte. Rotaries also have a huge response level to mods. Take the RB turbo back exhaust for example, they have a proven gain of 56hp on the dyno from just a turbo back exhaust on a FC, show me a 3sgte that responds to an exhaust with such high response. How about pettit racing's 20B BAnzai setup, they produce a 20b that puts out 560hp out of the box, keep in mind thats still only a 2.0 litre engine, and the 13b is only a 1.3 litre engine. Rotaries put out amazing horsepower for their displacement, I have spanked kids in their camaro z28's and mustang cobras and they almost cry when they find that they just lost to something with 80ci. Rotaries are a extrememly advanced and amazing motor as well as unique. Even a stock rotary brings attention to the engine bay, how many people do you see crowded around a stock 3sgte?

ummm the reliability issue applies too all cars you ignorant fools...

:eek7: That was a tad uncalled for. Don't let one person kill it for all of us.

hahah 3sgte more reliable? Mr2s shouldnt have forums, can you guys even produce more than 300hp?
I am at 308 RWHP on an original unopened 3sgte.

Motor just popped. 212k Original engine/tranny/clutch/brakes.
How much HP are you putting down? You never had to address your seals?

yes, its not uncommon
I think you meant "Yes, its common."
...but seriously, a rotary at 200K miles on the original engine with close to double OEM wheel-horsepower?

its funny that as soon as rotary people start posting all the MR2 people stopped.
Sorry, I did not have time to respond to the ONE post you have added to this board. :rolleyes: It is interesting that most of the "rotary's" that have responded have had 1 or 2 total posts. I wonder what that means?

Quick reply to a couple things here.

First, if you ever have a question about rotary engines, no matter how big or small, never ask in a piston engine car forum. Always go to a RX-7 forum or rotary forum, because outside of the people who run rotaries, the vast majority of the population, including those who are professional mechanics, know almost nothing about rotaries. All you'll get is the typical, ignorant "they're unreliable" response. Nothing against the piston guys (the 3S-GTE is my second favorite engine, after all)... they're just completely different types of engines.

Second, for the MR2, stick with the 3S-GTE. It has tons of power potential, and any benefit you might see by having a rotary would never overcome the difficulty of converting a rotary to a RR drivetrain. The 3S-GTE is an extremely potent engine and is made to go into a MR2.

The reason that I have had one post, along with some of the other FC/FD drivers on here is because there was a link to this on our local forum saying that a lot of MR2 drivers hate the rotary engine, so some of us clicked on the link to read the conversation, some of us just felt like adding some information to the discussion to stick up for what we love, Im sure if we were bashing the 3sgte on our forum (which if someone did they would be immediately corrected for the majority or atleast the knowledgable FC drivers know to have respect for other motors and drivers of different makes and models.) you would most likely add something in defense for your 3sgte. Im sorry if i offended you for making a single post on your board.

I really like what kaneto had to say, if anyone has any questions about rotary engines I strongly agree that a MR2 forum is not the place to be asking about it, anyone at nopistons.com or teamfc3s.org would be happy to answer any questions anyone has. Personally if I were to have any other car than my 7 I would actually choose a MR2 turbo, they are a favorite car of mine, you would actually be surprised how many FC drivers pay respect to the 3sgte, its just too bad that because we have such a unique and under rated motor/car we get so little respect from all the other drivers out there.

All this time, I thought I was the only one who loved both the 13BT and the 3S-GTE..

It is interesting that most of the "rotary's" that have responded have had 1 or 2 total posts. I wonder what that means?



b/c i asked them to.it is b/c i cant stand it when people put down my fav engine.

i hade to show you all that they are good engines that dont blow up all the time.


Happy

I am at 308 RWHP on an original unopened 3sgte. I think you meant "Yes, its common."
...but seriously, a rotary at 200K miles on the original engine with close to double OEM wheel-horsepower? JekylandHyde, you are certainly one cocky individual and you really know how to twist information. Your engine condition is uncommon, and if perhaps there were others that experienced the same MIRACLE as you are, there are certainly extremely few, if any. You are putting your experience out on the line like every 3S-GTE goes for 200k blasting at 300+ hp. Your car has lasted at 308hp because it hasn't been at "double the stock horsepower" for any significant portion of the engine's life. Whatever time spent driving the car before you bought it at 180k was spent pussyfooting it and giving it the maintenance it deserved, just like you probably do between races (and like any person that respects their car should). You know it isn't going to last forever, or even much longer for that matter. Also the whole "double the horsepower" deal... do you seriously drive the car on the street with your max boost set to 20psi at all times? I know you are smarter than that. Also, were you pushing 308hp right when you bought the car? What mileage were you at when you dynoed over 300hp? I say with complete honesty that what you've done is incredible. I really find it amazing that your car is pushing that kind of power in that kind of condition, but a rotary taken care of the same way could most likely do it to. Your car is still amazing even though you are arguing with horrible exaggeration of your information. Your car hasnt been pushing 300hp for its entire life. When you can quit arguing with fallacy, I think you'll develop the same admiration for unorthodox things that most of us rotary owners have. Also, regarding post count, all of my fellow board members that have posted here have at least as much if not hundreds more posts than you have contributed to your own forum, our low post count on this forum has nothing to do with a lack of experience or knowledge like you may be thinking, it is only beause we try our best to bring untainted knowledge to ignorant folks such as yourself.

JekylandHyde, you are certainly one cocky individual and you really know how to twist information
My sincere apologies if I appeared "cocky". But realistically speaking, no one "bashed" the rotary. I believe the only statement that was made is that they are less reliable. The being said, does that realyl call for these kinds of responses:
ummm the reliability issue applies too all cars you ignorant fools..
its funny that as soon as rotary people start posting all the MR2 people stopped.
Kaneto, has had the most logic, clear headed post of the last few.
MrDirt, your last post was also very insightful.

Please look back through this thread and see how "you all" presented yourselfs. How would you all perceive a pile of "newbs" coming into your forum posting the stuff you all posted? ...find the answers to those questions and you might see where I was coming from.

Your comments about my car are insightful. I bought Hyde with 180,000 and started modding immediatly. He now has 195,000 miles... tuned for 258 RWHP on the street and 308 RWHP at the strip. He has over 64 1/4 miles passes and over 16 dyno runs. The one point you were incorrect on is how I drive my car regularly... I beat the hell out of him whenever I am in it (which is why I do not drive him regularly).

Now, forget about my car nad let's get back to this rotary discussion. I would appreciate some education. The rotary motor has a reputation for not being reliable. It has reputation for having the seals (are they called something different? between the chambers) going bad.

Please enlighten us as to where this reputation comes from and address the truth in it. I am asking honestly and openly.

Regardless of the conclusion of this debate, do you agree that it is not a worthwhile cause to try and get that motor into an MR2 for performanc ereason, but only novelty sake? ...the 3sgte is a quite capable motor and there is no reason to swap it.

Jekyl and Hyde, I made a post a moment ago basically stating my disapointment in your and your fellow MR2 drivers comments on our motor, but i see your new post and see where you are coming from, I too am sorry for coming off in such defense and would be happy to educate you on any questions you have. :smile:

The reason that the rotary motor has such a bad reputation for being unreliable and popping at low miles is simple. Look at it this way, All the united states ever saw was piston engines, then you take the rotary engine and introduce it to the general public, now a majority of the people who bought these cars bought them for the same reasons they would buy any other car, they probably liked the looks, and the style, and performance, but the problem here is they had no idea what they were dealing with, soo, most people treat their rotarys just like they would a piston engine. They are extremely reliable, but very fragile as well, if not taken care of properly then they will pop sooner than you want them too. Take oil for example, here you have some kid putting synthetic oil into his 7 thinking its going to be good for it, after all its good for piston motors, but it actually has a very neg. effect on the rotary motor and only takes mineral oil. Second rx-7's burn oil more so than piston engines, its natural for them, so its not irregular to be a quart low 1500 miles after changing the oil, most peple just dont check it like they would their ford probe gt and whoops! someone thinks its ok to put 4k on before they get another oil change and all of the sudden they have no oil and there goes the motor, you also have to let them warm up a little, or atleast its good to before running it hard, a lot of owners just start her up and go beat the piss out of it, not good. There are just so mant minor differences that people didnt know about that caused their motors to blow, thus giving them the bad rep.

The seals you were asking about are the "Apex seals" These are small seals located on the corner of each rotor to seal against the housing, each side is doing somethin at all times, one side is taking in air/fuel, while the next side combusts, and the third pushes it out the exhaust, and it keeps continuously spinning and performing these operations. Because there are only three moving parts in the motor it makes them very reliable, if like i said, they are taken care of properly. Because everything is moving in one constant direction you dont get the shaking or vibrations you would in a piston engine, they are extremely smooth, even at 150mph my steering whel wasnt shaking one bit, it was the same as if i were doing 60. I will post a link for you guys to a sight that has animated videos of the rotors in the housing showing intake, power, and exhaust all in motion. I still have a lot to learn as well, but i put fourth what i know. :smile:

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/rx8/rx8_main_flash.jsp go to this website, it is a sight about the rx-8, but I feel it shows an excellent example of how the rptary works, it will show you a tep by step animated video of exactly how it works, when you get there click on innovation, and then on the small box with a picture of a triangle (rotor) in it, and then click on "how the rotary engin works" ENJOY!

do you know of any RX7s hitting 200K miles on the original engine?

I stated that was the original engine. eg: No modifications.

Anyways, I don't know why I jumped into a cross board flame war. Just figured I would post up that pic. :smile:

Good day.

I stated that was the original engine. eg: No modifications.
Hyde has the "original unopened engine"... my mods are all bolt-ons. The block/head have never been opened.... that is how I was defining it. So it can be modded... just not internally.

As for getting into a cross-board flame ... arguing on the net can be addicting :)

I also apologize to everyone for being so defensive, JekyllandHyde most of all because I directed most of my comments towards you. None of us mean to start a fight, only to clear things up. To answer the big question here... I do not think a 13B would be a valuable swap unless you were building something just to impress people with your engineering ability. In any FR car, it would be interesting, as with some longitudnal MR cars, but dollar for dollar, keeping your 3S-GTE or maybe doing the V6 swap I saw Turbo Magazine do (the twincharged one, I wet myself when I saw it) would be much more cost effective and easy to do since they already come in FWD format. There actually were FWD rotary engines, none in america, but they came in various sedans, and I have no idea if they would be compatible if you could even find one. My suggestion to the guy that wants to do this is keep your motor or get the V6, save a rotary for a FR car you want to swap an engine into.

I also apologize to everyone for being so defensive, JekyllandHyde most of all.
All is well. :) ...next time we are taking it to the track though ;)

That's doable as I only live in Pittsburgh. Right now I'm at Pitt's Johnstown campus attending school though, so I believe I'm even closer. My N/A RX-7 with a hundred wheel horsepower only runs 15's so I dont think it would be much of a race. Maybe at BeaveRun through the turns would be a little more even, but there are huge straights on that course that you would rape my car on. We'll see what kind of work I can get done over the winter, I'm swapping for a turbo motor... then we'll talk ;)

Maybe at BeaveRun through the turns would be a little more even, but there are huge straights on that course that you would rape my car on.
...then I could use Jekyl ;)

No!!! It's all happy here now!! Back to fighting guys!!

SCREW THE 3S-GTE!!!

:D I'm just playing.. I'm glad you guys are able to come to an understanding.. hell, once Jekyl and Mr. Dirt meet at the track, they may even become good friends..

I've never said anything bad about the 3S-GTE.. There's an MR2 turbo sitting in my garage [cousin's car, he lives with me] and I help him work on it too.. I enjoy the 2 just as much as the 7..

...
...

..but the 7 still kicks ass.. :D

back to the home forum.. cya

so basically rotaries require higher maintenance then, and since people probably didnt take care of it like they should have, there probably arent that many good ones out there to the number of rx-7s that were sold. oh yea and another thing, some guy that was planning on getting the 93-95 rx-7 told me that they dont start as well as piston engines. like it wont always start on the first try, but eventually it does after a couple of times, or something, is it true?

so basically rotaries require higher maintenance then, and since people probably didnt take care of it like they should have, there probably arent that many good ones out there to the number of rx-7s that were sold. oh yea and another thing, some guy that was planning on getting the 93-95 rx-7 told me that they dont start as well as piston engines. like it wont always start on the first try, but eventually it does after a couple of times, or something, is it true?

it may take it a few cranks to get the car starting...buuuut... it shouldnt be anymore than just turn of a key. bad tuning.

see if you have a well tuned rx7, it will last as long as a piston engine would. if you just didnt give a fuck about the rx7, and just started modding it with improper tuning and beating the shit out of it...yea the apex seals will blow really fast.
well if you have any questions about rotaries...just hit up any rx7 forums.
it would be better asking there than an mr2 forum =)

You want to get rid of a realiable 3sgte and put in an unrealiable rotary engine?

Not sure what would be more expensive.... paying to get it in or paying to keep it running.

I have 195,000 miles on my Turbo MR2 at double the OEM HP levels... do you know of any RX7s hitting 200K miles on the original engine? i dont know were to post , wow you guys know alot more than me but i like both kinds of engine , piston or rotary they all seem to have good and bad , any how my nosence

holy ancient thread batman!


though you are new, it would be a good idea to read up on the forum rules.