Hockenheim 2003

Well, here we are, qualifying one is over and nobody has started a thread here to discuss the race and the prospective outcome, let alone the qualifying session.

Coulthard caused a stir setting the fastest time in free practice....but that all changed quickly enough and considering so far the weather has been pretty stable there were no front runners in the wet back markers in the dry type scenario in qualifying one either....

Qualifying One Times

1. 4 R.SCHUMACHER Williams BMW 1'14"427
2. 3 MONTOYA Williams BMW 1'14"673
3. 7 TRULLI Renault 1'15"004
4. 14 WEBBER Jaguar Cosworth 1'15"030
5. 8 ALONSO Renault 1'15"214
6. 6 RAIKKONEN McLaren Mercedes 1'15"276
7. 15 WILSON Jaguar Cosworth 1'15"373
8. 2 BARRICHELLO Ferrari 1'15"399
9. 1 M.SCHUMACHER Ferrari 1'15"456
10. 20 PANIS Toyota 1'15"471
11. 5 COULTHARD McLaren Mercedes 1'15"557
12. 17 BUTTON BAR Honda 1'15"757
13. 10 FRENTZEN Sauber Petronas 1'15"968
14. 9 HEIDFELD Sauber Petronas 1'15"985
15. 21 DA MATTA Toyota 1'16"450
16. 12 FIRMAN Jordan Ford 1'17"044
17. 11 FISICHELLA Jordan Ford 1'17"111
18. 19 VERSTAPPEN Minardi Cosworth 1'17"702
19. 16 VILLENEUVE BAR Honda 1'44"500
20. 18 KIESA Minardi Cosworth 3'00"000

Interesting shake up in the top order, although it doesn't mean too much in this session, Kimi running faster than either Ferrari, Barrichello quicker than Michael, what is a Toyota doing up there?
Oh wait, forget the Toyota, what are both Jags doing being faster than Ferrari?
I am sure we will see our latest rookie, Kiesa improve all weekend, I hope anyhow.

It's going to be an interesting qualifying session tomorrow....

It would take a brave man to bet against a Williams 1-2 tomorrow as well as on Sunday. And I'm not that brave! And I think Ralf will take it 0 he's on home turf afterall.

Top seven positions on Michelins. Even a blind man can see that F1 is a tyre formula.

Although it is good to see the shoe is on the other foot than it has been for the last three years or so. Lets hope the race is the same story :smile:

Also isn't it nice to have a team like Willimams at the front, with the potential of an actual race between teammates. Not like a certain team where the finishing order is determined by contract lawyers the previous season...

I rekon JPM will either win it or do something silly trying :cwm27: And hopefully Kimi can score a podium and some usefull points over Michael. That is about the maximum his car will be capable of.

Hmmm. Wonder if Ralf was slow on the last sector or JPM was fast. Anyway, another pole for JPM and another Williams 1-2, and Williams boys in a league of their own compared to the rest.

1. 3 MONTOYA Williams BMW M 1'15"167 219.064 Km/h 3
2. 4 R.SCHUMACHER Williams BMW M 1'15"185 + 0'00"018 3
3. 2 BARRICHELLO Ferrari B 1'15"488 + 0'00"321 3
4. 7 TRULLI Renault M 1'15"679 + 0'00"512 3
5. 6 RAIKKONEN McLaren Mercedes M 1'15"874 + 0'00"707 3
6. 1 M.SCHUMACHER Ferrari B 1'15"898 + 0'00"731 3
7. 20 PANIS Toyota M 1'16"034 + 0'00"867 3
8. 8 ALONSO Renault M 1'16"483 + 0'01"316 3
9. 21 DA MATTA Toyota M 1'16"550 + 0'01"383 3
10. 5 COULTHARD McLaren Mercedes M 1'16"666 + 0'01"499 3
11. 14 WEBBER Jaguar Cosworth M 1'16"775 + 0'01"608 3
12. 11 FISICHELLA Jordan Ford B 1'16"831 + 0'01"664 3
13. 16 VILLENEUVE BAR Honda B 1'17"090 + 0'01"923 3
14. 10 FRENTZEN Sauber Petronas B 1'17"169 + 0'02"002 3
15. 9 HEIDFELD Sauber Petronas B 1'17"557 + 0'02"390 3
16. 15 WILSON Jaguar Cosworth M 1'18"021 + 0'02"854 3
17. 17 BUTTON BAR Honda B 1'18"085 + 0'02"918 3
18. 12 FIRMAN Jordan Ford B 1'18"341 + 0'03"174 3
19. 19 VERSTAPPEN Minardi Cosworth B 1'19"023 + 0'03"856 3
20. 18 KIESA Minardi Cosworth B 1'19"174 + 0'04"007 3

If the two Jaguars swapped places with the two Ferraris then 1-10 cars on the grids would be on Michelins and 11-20 on Bridgestones. When does that testing ban lift again? :)

My rough prediction for the race: Trulli gets in front of Rubens at the start (maybe even Kimi but that doesn't matter) and starts holding everyone up while the boys in blue disappear into the distance. Then several drivers get past jarno at the pitstops. I also have a feeling (hope) that MS is on a different strategy to Rubens.

Originally posted by ales
Hmmm. Wonder if Ralf was slow on the last sector or JPM was fast.

Bit of both. Ralf and Juan were pretty even in the first sector. Ralf was 0.2 faster in the second and Juan about the same faster in the third. In the wash Montoya was quicker by 0.018 seconds. About as close as they could get!

Me paraniod? Who told you that?

Man, if I wasn't already paranoid - half the just thread dissapeared! The interesting half too :icon16:

Splitters! :tongue:

I hope you guys will post the outcome of tomorrow's race cos I just changed to a new job and my working hours wont allow me to be back in time for the race from today onwards....bah!

Dont think I will find a more updated news than here :wink:

So bring on your after race commentaries guys! Will appreciate it very much......thanks a mil!

Originally posted by RallyRaider
Man, if I wasn't already paranoid - half the just thread dissapeared!

What half, Phil? :dunno: Are you alone there? Are you sure? ;)
(I vouch to try not to go off topic in this thread anymore - the wrath of Clark is not something I'd like to experience) :D

Originally posted by Chain
So bring on your after race commentaries guys! Will appreciate it very much......thanks a mil!

Don't worry, we'll post comments. More than you think! :lol:

Pileup at the start! So what now? Red flag or just the safety car? If the latter, Kimi's out!

Ralf out. Rubens and Ralf collided and then Kimi got collected. So far I place the blame 100% on Ralf.

No Red Flag! Man, this is awful bad luck for some, good for others.

And there was a second crash, a big one, at the same time, I think it was caused by Firman.

Restart went cleanly, JPM using all his experience in rolling starts. It's his race I think.

Yep, barring any problems JPM should easily win. I can see MS moving up though. :smile:

Originally posted by ales
Ralf out. Rubens and Ralf collided and then Kimi got collected. So far I place the blame 100% on Ralf.

Actually, I think RB's Ferrari caused it by being too stinking slow on take off. Watch how he got in the way, the other two having to go up each side of him. Why can't Ferrari make a decent launcher? :confused:

Well, that's true, RB got away very slowly, as did Ralf to some extent. Still Ralf moved over and hit Rubens.

How did MS get in front of Alonso?

Oh, so there's my answer - a mistake from Alonso.

Alonso went off in some oil or something, then back on. How did DC make up so much time on Alonso after that? :confused:

Trulli the plug.

What! A! Pass!!! Trulloi left no room, but whatever. The maneuvre was ust great! Almost as good as DC on Webber, and now Trulli left no room for DC as well! But DC is through and away.

Bridgestone! Such great tyres this season. Not only fast but also durable and reliable.

MS certainly needs all the points he can muster, can he cleanly pass Trulli and fend off DC?

Well, I have to say MS could have picked a better passing corner, he put car and tyres at risk unnecessarily. Things are tight now!

Originally posted by ales
Bridgestone! Such great tyres this season. Not only fast but also durable and reliable.


You 've talked too soon, me thinks...


Schumi blew his rear tyre, and finished seventh...

Olivier

No I didn't, Oli. I't sjust that for some reason Brian's posts appear too late. I was being very sarcastic in the post you quoted as I wrote that after MS blew his tyre.

ok!
No problem...

Have you guys seen the renault stopping and the living corpse of Trulli trying to get out of that car?

Oli

Originally posted by bigfrit
ok!
No problem...

Have you guys seen the renault stopping and the living corpse of Trulli trying to get out of that car?

Oli

what a tough guy! he could barely stand up, but he drove his car to the podium.

How come they stopped the race two years ago with a two car accident but this year they had a six car pileup and no red flag? oh wait, maybe because Schumacher wasn't involved, never mind

Schumacher was involved, Ralf that is. Casued the accident too. And for once, race stewards agree with my take on the collision:

From pitpass (http://www.pitpass.com/news2/news.cfm?newsid=7041)

Ralf Schumacher has been punished by the FIA for the accident at the start of the German GP that effectively eliminated five cars.
Having studied video evidence of the incident the stewards decided that Ralf Schumacher (car No 4) had contravened Article 55C of the Sporting Regulations and will therefore forfeit ten places at the next Grand Prix.

Drivers Rubens Barrichello and Kimi Raikkonen were in no way to blame.

Ralf had previously admitted that he didn't know where the other drivers were and hadn't even looked for them.

I agree, it was ralph that moved left causing RB to swerve on KR. He must have though that only one car was left of him.
At the end I thought DC was going to do a kamakazi move on Michael and take him out for Kimi, but eventually he didn't need to, Poetic justice?

Originally posted by ugly kid jon


How come they stopped the race two years ago with a two car accident but this year they had a six car pileup and no red flag? oh wait, maybe because Schumacher wasn't involved, never mind

Interesting notion, I think if it came down to MS being involved when it came to a race, than Brasil would not have been stopped.

Perhaps the nature of the wreck and how the damaged car lay on the track has something to do with it?
As much as I dislike MS, I find your theory to be ridiculous!

of all the races to sleep thru:biggrin2: guess ill catch the replay:frown:

after seeing it, RB held his line, kimi didnt help by going to the outside, but the blame should be placed on RS.

Trying to say their is some sort of secret effort by F-1 officials to support MS sounds like a good story for a movie of the week, but the reality is F-1 has management issues. Stopping a race for major first lap crashes should be standard. F-1 needs to keep as many cars in the race as possible. Red flags gives some teams a chance to get cars repaired or a back up car.

I still think MS will win the championship, but I think the flat tire added some great drama to the season. If this keeps up, there maybe a few drivers with a real chance of winning the championship. AT the very least I hope there is two drivers fighting it out to the last lap of the last race of the season for the championship.

The only downside of this round was the huge lead Montoya establish. When a driver leads by such a huge amount, it kind of takes some of thrill out of the race. There was a good fight among the rest of the top eight cars.

Originally posted by vectorclub
Trying to say their is some sort of secret effort by F-1 officials to support MS sounds like a good story for a movie of the week,

Yeah, that would be insane, but being a race track in Germany full of German M Schumacher fans and having German safety officials...well never mind, I guess I was paranoid.

Originally posted by ales
Schumacher was involved, Ralf that is. Casued the accident too. And for once, race stewards agree with my take on the collision:

From pitpass (http://www.pitpass.com/news2/news.cfm?newsid=7041)



After watching the wreck several more times I have to disagree. RS held his line, RB was trying to pass on the outside and Kimi on the outside of him which Ralf had no way of knowing. RB probably wouldn't have made the turn if he had stayed beside Ralf and it wasn't Ralf who was obligated to make room for him, RB should have backed off a bit and fell in behind Ralf since he did know Kimi was there with two wheels almost off the track at that point. If I had to throw blame it would be to RB, but better to call this one a racing accident and not fine anyone.

After watching the wreck several more times I have to disagree. RS held his line, RB was trying to pass on the outside and Kimi on the outside of him which Ralf had no way of knowing. RB probably wouldn't have made the turn if he had stayed beside Ralf and it wasn't Ralf who was obligated to make room for him, RB should have backed off a bit and fell in behind Ralf since he did know Kimi was there with two wheels almost off the track at that point. If I had to throw blame it would be to RB, but better to call this one a racing accident and not fine anyone.

I disagree, RS was not keeping a racing line, he was pushing RB over. RS did not know RB had no room to move over. RS maybe to blame, but it looked more like a racing thing then RS trying to be a jerk or idiot. MS has made the same move many times. Maybe if MS caused large wrecks with moves like that he would have been penalized like RS was this time.

Originally posted by vectorclub


I disagree, RS was not keeping a racing line, he was pushing RB over. RS did not know RB had no room to move over. RS maybe to blame, but it looked more like a racing thing then RS trying to be a jerk or idiot. MS has made the same move many times. Maybe if MS caused large wrecks with moves like that he would have been penalized like RS was this time.

I agree his line was at an angle to the outside, but that's what you want when entering a tight righthander. There wasn't room for three anyway you slice it.

Originally posted by Veyron


I agree his line was at an angle to the outside, but that's what you want when entering a tight righthander. There wasn't room for three anyway you slice it.

Angle shmangle, ralph leaned on RB setting off the crash, while it wasn't intentional, it was careless, and his comments after the race probably got him in trouble

Here's a quote from Rubens. He did back off.

I am very disappointed. I had nowhere to go at the moment of the accident. I had an average start. I think both Ralf and Kimi took big risks, especially Kimi who went very wide to get past. Ralf moved to the left and gave me nowhere to go. I braked and then I was hit while not making any changes of direction with the steering wheel. A real shame, as today I could have had a good race and a great result.

I don’t think it was Ralf’s fault, not by any means. He moved over to cover his position, and did so gradually, just as he is allowed to do. As Rubens pointed out, Kimi took a big risk in going wide, and in doing so leaving himself and Rubens absolutely nowhere to go in case they have to react to another driver’s move. Neither of them lifted, as you would imagine, and the accident occurred. No one’s fault, imo it was a racing incident.

But Rubens said he braked ;) Although indeed, he didn't say that he lifted :) And Ralf also said he wasn't payng enough, if any, attention to what the drivers around him were doing.

Anyway, Williams will protest the 10 grid positions punishment, and we'll see what happens. As for the Gene rumours - no way. Ralf has started really down the order this year to finish high in the points, and I doubt he'd be moved more than to 13th place on the grid considering the form that he and Williams and Michelin are on at the moment

Considering the way it started the race didn't turn out too bad at all. Only thing it was missing was Kimi on the podium :frown:

Bit harsh the FIA punishing Ralf like that, I thought it was mostly a racing incident. But if somebody had to be blamed then it couldn't really have been Kimi or Rubens, so Ralf copped it. The FIA have awarded stop and gos for similar racing incidents recently so I guess thay are at least being consistant.

Three weeks for Bridgestone to catch up. Four circuits left, can Michelin maintain the advantage?

Originally posted by ales

Don't worry, we'll post comments. More than you think! :lol:

Haha, you meant what you said ales.

Nice commentaries and views guys! Knew you guys wont disappoint.

I'm just pissed I hadnt been able to watched the last 2 chequered flag races. Eck, even the replays are in the afternoon while I am at work...grrr.

You know what they say when its nearing the end of the championship, things will get rougher and I'm expecting more to come. Too bad I dont have a vcr.

Ah well, there always AF :bigthumb: F1 forum to turn to.

Way to go Montoya!!!!!Go williams go! :biggrin:

Originally posted by RallyRaider
Three weeks for Bridgestone to catch up. Four circuits left, can Michelin maintain the advantage?

Yes, they can. No testing before Hungary.